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X5 E53 (1999 - 2006)
The X5 SAV Forum

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  #1  
Old 07-28-2013, 09:14 AM
mx6gt mx6gt is offline
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Another Smoking x5

Just bought a 2005 x5 3l gas from the auction. Trailered it home and now it smokes bad on start up and less after running. From what i've read on here it sounds like ccv. Is there any way to test it before replacing it?
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  #2  
Old 07-28-2013, 09:55 AM
stoja stoja is offline
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pull the plugs, if they have oil on them you need to change the valve cover seals. happened to mine.
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  #3  
Old 07-28-2013, 11:05 AM
A B Able Truck's Avatar
A B Able Truck A B Able Truck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6gt View Post
Just bought a 2005 x5 3l gas from the auction. Trailered it home and now it smokes bad on start up and less after running. From what i've read on here it sounds like ccv. Is there any way to test it before replacing it?

Oil consumption was excessive - It smoked - I was told I needed valve stem seals

My car (didn't pass smog & couldn't renew registration);
2006 BMW 550I 95,000 miles V8 (N62TU)
Smokes (white/gray/blue) failed visual Smog Report (15 mph HC ppm Measured 91 Max. 49)

Symptoms & history;
It used oil (approx. 1 qt. per 2-3 tanks) and I read the history of V8 valve stem problems (internet & local shop research), I was about to have the valve guide/stem seals replaced or drive the car off a cliff. But it didn't have the classic symptoms of defective valve stem seals/guides. It also ran like a rapped ape (old school for ran great). I'm a heavy truck mechanic with old school car experience (35 years). The plugs were clean and the exhaust smelled funny, also the exhaust dripped clean water no matter how hot or long it ran. I pulled the intake throttle housing and noticed excessive oil. Replaced the (ccv) diaphragms in the valve covers (torn) & read up on the cyclone oil separator (like a Dyson vacuum). Because I wasn't happy with the oil consumption & residue in the intake, I fabricated a Scotch Brite pad filter with screen for each valve cover vent outlet. As well as a pre-filter for the CCV diaphragm base. This cleaned out the oil residue and has greatly reduced oil consumption while allowing crankcase recirculation. I pulled the spark plugs and stuck a camera down a couple plug holes. Yes, the top of the pistons were loaded with carbon. So I sprayed Sea Foam in each plug hole, followed by a shot of low pressure shop air to help spread it around the piston. I let it sit for an hour or so, then reinstalled the plugs. I topped off the fuel tank with high octane and added 12 oz. of CRC Fuel System Cleaner (part #05063) to the tank. 100 miles later and what a difference no smoke or water dipping out the exhaust after warm up.

****This note was copied from a BMW Technical Training manual
Note: If the exhaust system produces blue smoke, it is necessary to check whether the engine is also drawing oil into the combustion chamber through the crankcase breather, which suggest that there is a fault in the area of the crankcase breather. A clear sign of a problem is an oiled up clean-air pipe.

** The Variable Intake Manifold acts like a giant Catch Can and may have oil resting in the base.

****The valve stem diameter was changed at a production point (you would assume) to remedy the guide problem. I don't believe BMW would use inferior stem seals after this change, if ever. My vehicle has now passed smog test & no longer smokes. I did have to run the proceedure twice before it lowerd the HC levels within specs. I will probably was the Chevron fuel treatment from this point on. (See attached TSB) It cost me $200 to fix compared to the $4000 > $5000 I was told it would take for a guide/seal replacement.
SI B 13 05 06 & SI B 13 01 07

**** Day 65 +/- 2500+ miles later NO smoke or excessive water from tailpipe **** used almost a quart +/- ****
For those of you seasoned mechanics replacing guides & seals - This worked for me - my vehicle - my situation - but I believe you should diagnose each vehicle on an individual basis - Regardless of BMW guide/valve stem history.
Updated 8/27

Last edited by A B Able Truck; 08-27-2013 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Update
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  #4  
Old 07-28-2013, 07:08 PM
mx6gt mx6gt is offline
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Update:
Pulled the plugs. They had oil on them.
Did a smoke test and smoke was coming out of the oil fill cap. Not sure if this is right?
Cleaned the MAF sensor and plugs. Runs alot better but still smokes.
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  #5  
Old 07-28-2013, 08:55 PM
aspenpup aspenpup is offline
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You need to replace the valve under the intake manifold. Quite a chore to get to. It is very difficult to even see it since it is under the intake manifold. There are several hoses going to this.

If you want to get an idea where it is located, look down the oil dipstick and you will see a black hose going down to the base of the dip stick. The hose is about 1/2" round and has an outer foam insulation on it. You will probably find the foam hard as a rock. Follow the hose back up. The valve is about the size of your fist. Another way to find it is to look at the hose that comes out of the front part of the valve cover that makes a 90 degree turn behind the oil filter and under the intake manifold.

You need to purchase all of the hoses that attached to this valve since they will be hard and break.

Kind of a pain to replace. There is a write-up about this somewhere. I replaced without removing the intake manifold but you have to do some screwing by touch since you won't always see the bolts/screws etc. I broke/cut the old hoses in order to get the old valve out since it is nearly impossible to get to the point to twist those hoses off.

If you want to see what it looks like, do a ebay search on part# 11617533400 There are some auctions that include all of the hoses.

This must be extremely common failure since my brother's 2002 325i also had the same exact failure. He had to pay over $1000 to get his replaced at an indy repair place.
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  #6  
Old 07-30-2013, 07:07 AM
mx6gt mx6gt is offline
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I ordered a bluetooth code reader online and am waiting for it to come in. are there any codes that would tell me it is the ccv and not valve stem seals?
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:40 AM
A B Able Truck's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6gt View Post
I ordered a bluetooth code reader online and am waiting for it to come in. are there any codes that would tell me it is the ccv and not valve stem seals?
No - not that I'm aware of. You need to take care of the obvious first. A code reader will only tell you so much.
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  #8  
Old 07-31-2013, 10:38 AM
Westlotorn Westlotorn is offline
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I too believe the valve stem seals are not the issue on these engines. The positive crankcase ventilation is the problem. The crankcase vents to the intake manifold, both valve covers have rubber hoses going to the intake manifold, pull these hoses and look both inside the hose and into the manifold.
A small pen light will expose oil if it is there. On my son's car 2005 4.4L X5 145,000 miles both hoses showed oil, lots of oil. The manifold showed lots of oil. The spark plugs looked fine, leaking stem seals usually carbon up a spark plug.
The solution was to replace valve cover gaskets, the orings on the vanos and replace the diaphragms on each valve cover that control crankcase ventilation. The vacuum pump was also removed and new gasket installed.
This not only eliminated the oil leaks but the car runs and shifts like new again. Huge difference. My wife has a 2008 x5 4.8L and we already had to replace the vanos seals at 80,000 miles, it looks like one valve cover is starting to leak also.
When any one of these seals leaks it allows the crankcase ventilation to pull air into the intake manifold, this air movement will pull oil out of the valve covers into the manifold causing your oil smoke.
If only one hose has oil in it your problem is on that bank of cylinders, if both hoses have oil in them you need to do both sides. My sons car was pulling more oil from the pass side but the drivers side was leaking also, just not as bad.
The manifold should be removed and cleaned if it has oil in it. This fix is much less invasive than a valve stem seal replacement. All parts mentioned would be replaced if doing valve stem seals so people that do replace valve stem seals get good results.
If you have one or two carbon fouled spark plugs when your pull the plugs you need to look at the valve stem seals, if all your plugs look normal your problem is somewhere else.
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  #9  
Old 08-23-2013, 09:15 AM
mx6gt mx6gt is offline
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I changed out the CVV and it stopped smoking! but it now runs rough. I pulled the codes and got Engine misfire on all cylinders, MAF voltage low, and running lean on bank 1 and 2. Pretty sure I didn't miss plugging a vacuum hose in, The MAF is plugged in, but I did break a piece of plastic inside the MAF, that looks like it is supposed to keep stuff from hitting the sensor. Do these codes dound like the MAF should be replaced or should I tear it apart again searching for a missed hose?
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  #10  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6gt View Post
I changed out the CVV and it stopped smoking! but it now runs rough. I pulled the codes and got Engine misfire on all cylinders, MAF voltage low, and running lean on bank 1 and 2. Pretty sure I didn't miss plugging a vacuum hose in, The MAF is plugged in, but I did break a piece of plastic inside the MAF, that looks like it is supposed to keep stuff from hitting the sensor. Do these codes dound like the MAF should be replaced or should I tear it apart again searching for a missed hose?
Carbon on the piston tops was my misfire troubles.
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2013, 12:01 PM
mx6gt mx6gt is offline
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that wouldn't cause MAF and lean codes? would it?
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2013, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6gt View Post
that wouldn't cause MAF and lean codes? would it?
I don't know - I'm a heavy line tech - but if you're using oil (no leaks) it's ending up in your combustion chamber & carbon buildup did some wacky things (scope wise) when my smog tech buddy helped me diagnose mine.
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  #13  
Old 08-28-2013, 10:46 AM
The_STiG_US The_STiG_US is offline
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Check the DISA valve as it may be hosed.
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  #14  
Old 08-29-2013, 05:50 PM
bigjon44 bigjon44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlotorn View Post
I too believe the valve stem seals are not the issue on these engines. The positive crankcase ventilation is the problem. The crankcase vents to the intake manifold, both valve covers have rubber hoses going to the intake manifold, pull these hoses and look both inside the hose and into the manifold.
A small pen light will expose oil if it is there. On my son's car 2005 4.4L X5 145,000 miles both hoses showed oil, lots of oil. The manifold showed lots of oil. The spark plugs looked fine, leaking stem seals usually carbon up a spark plug.
The solution was to replace valve cover gaskets, the orings on the vanos and replace the diaphragms on each valve cover that control crankcase ventilation. The vacuum pump was also removed and new gasket installed.
This not only eliminated the oil leaks but the car runs and shifts like new again. Huge difference. My wife has a 2008 x5 4.8L and we already had to replace the vanos seals at 80,000 miles, it looks like one valve cover is starting to leak also.
When any one of these seals leaks it allows the crankcase ventilation to pull air into the intake manifold, this air movement will pull oil out of the valve covers into the manifold causing your oil smoke.
If only one hose has oil in it your problem is on that bank of cylinders, if both hoses have oil in them you need to do both sides. My sons car was pulling more oil from the pass side but the drivers side was leaking also, just not as bad.
The manifold should be removed and cleaned if it has oil in it. This fix is much less invasive than a valve stem seal replacement. All parts mentioned would be replaced if doing valve stem seals so people that do replace valve stem seals get good results.
If you have one or two carbon fouled spark plugs when your pull the plugs you need to look at the valve stem seals, if all your plugs look normal your problem is somewhere else.
I'm very interested in this. I too have a 2006 4.4 X5 with some small amounts of blue smoke at idle. What signs can I look for to see if is is the same issue you encountered?
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2013, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjon44 View Post
I'm very interested in this. I too have a 2006 4.4 X5 with some small amounts of blue smoke at idle. What signs can I look for to see if is is the same issue you encountered?
CCV valves, vent hoses, oil in the intake (oil consumption) - pull up my profile (photos with explanations)

My car (V8 - N62tu) runs great and is smoke free
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  #16  
Old 08-29-2013, 10:06 PM
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A B Able Truck A B Able Truck is offline
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Here's interesting threads on the issue - pay attention to what 007 says about cleaning the valve covers (inners) when replacing CCVs. (Second thread has interesting photos)

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ling-time.html

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/album.php?u=346089

Last edited by A B Able Truck; 08-30-2013 at 08:42 AM. Reason: info
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  #17  
Old 09-04-2013, 09:17 AM
Westlotorn Westlotorn is offline
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The fastest way to physically see if your oil issue is related to the Crankcase vent is to pull the hoses that connect to the intake manifold. They connect on the V8 right at the throttle body. One from each valve cover, they are about 1 inch in diameter.
Once dis connected use a pen light and look inside the manifold, there should be no oil, if you see oil you have a vent issue. Look inside the hoses, they should not be wet with oil, if they are, the vent is not working properly.
There are other threads that will walk you through the repair which may include, new crankcase ventilation diaphragms at the top of the valve covers, new valve cover gaskets.
New O rings on the Valve timing control, front of each head, and the valve controllers on the top of each valve cover. I do not have the proper terminology for each of these devices but a air leak at any of these will cause oil to be drawn into the intake manifold and you will have a smoking engine. 1 quart of oil every 400 miles is possible with no other engine damage. Fix these things and you will have zero oil use.
If your manifold has lots of oil in it a cleaning may be necessary. Removal will help get to all the areas that need cleaning. We had to flush ours, first with diesel fuel to break down the oil, then gasoline and finally with soapy water before we installed it again.
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  #18  
Old 09-08-2013, 08:22 AM
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We're in a good discussion on this subject in the 5 series Forum (E60 2004 > 2010) 545i Blue Smoke after idle, Valve Seals?
Please chime in with your experiences and knowledge - we need to figure out what's going on with these engines.
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  #19  
Old 09-14-2013, 12:34 AM
Westlotorn Westlotorn is offline
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I just checked in for the first time in a while. I will go to the 5 series and read up.
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