Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 7 Series / 8 Series > 7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)

7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)
The new re-designed 7 series F01 / F02 leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-16-2013, 12:19 AM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

I have a 2009 750Li

There is a knocking noise coming from the engine. I hope I have figured out what the possible causes are but need more input from you guys/gals.

Around three weeks ago when I started the car up it immediately died. I hit the start button again and it fired right up and ran perfect. I did not think anything of it at this point but when it happened a few more times over the next few days I checked the bimmer into service. They diagnosed the issue and told me there was an issue with the low pressure fuel sensor and they needed to replace it. I was told that it would cost somewhere around $550. I was under the impression that the car was still under warranty but it had apparently expired just over a month before, per my service rep. I was unable to purchase an extended at this time, also per my service rep (but that is beside the point). I went ahead and had them change the oil and picked the car up. I ordered the low pressure fuel sensor for around $60 and installed it. This did not resolve the issue.

Prior to installing the low pressure fuel sensor, around 1 week before, I was heading home from the city, around 13mi drive. My tank was nearly full when I left. As I was driving I got an error code that read something along the lines of “Drive train malfunction. Maximum power output may not be available” I was on the highway and only a few miles from my exit. I was cruising at 60mph. Seemed to be no drive train issues besides the message… That is until I looked down at my fuel gauge. I had under a half of a tank of gas left! When I pulled up to the light my BMW was idling like JUNK. It accelerated like JUNK. I parked it and had it towed it the remaining 2-3miles.

After getting the car home I hooked up my code reader (pure gasoline was dripping out of exhaust pipes). I do not have the codes w/me now but will post later today. One was misfire cyl 3, one was misfire cyl 5, there was another engine one then a couple that started with “C” (chassis codes?).

Back to after installing the low pressure fuel sensor. The car was idling like junk still. I checked some voltage. I was reading 11.89 volts at the positive terminal under the hood (low..?). Then a knock started…could be described as a very loud click as opposed to a knock. No grinding noises. I immediately killed the engine. Any ideas? Here is what I have done so far..

I unplugged injectors 3 & 5 at separate times then started the engine. No change. I went ahead an pulled the coils and plugs on both 3 & 5 (again, separately) then started the engine. Nothing remarkable w/cylinder 5. With 3 I had the injector unplugged and the spark plug out. Fuel was spraying out of that piston when I started it up. I could not tell if the very loud click went away at this point since the engine has one open exhaust port.

Also, the oil fill reservoir smells like gasoline . Could an injector cause the knock? Or did poor lubrication secondary to fuel dumping ruin the motor? I ordered an oil filter, it should be in later today. I will change the oil and see if there are any surprises in the filter or drainage. I will also order some injectors later today.

Any ideas or recommendation will be greatly appreciated. I plan to fix the car and will keep everyone posted with the status and pics. Very disappointed though..This is my second 7 and had enough issues with my first. This one has decently low mileage and is acting up like this? I keep up on my maintenance and do not drive the car rough at all. I love my 7s but sad to say, I may have to give up on them. Do all 7s have issues? Are there any that make it to 50k w/o having a problem that requires 500-1k+ service?
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 09-16-2013, 12:34 AM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
do you guys think I will need to have the injectors programmed? how about the coils? I wouldnt think so but...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-16-2013, 02:51 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
New injector installed in cylinder 3.car runs a little better. Codes reset. Now I show a cylinder 4 misfire. I will diagnose this tomorrow. Changing oil tonight. Somewhat hesitant though just in case there is another injector polluting my $130 oil change.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-16-2013, 05:13 PM
jwanes jwanes is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 138
Mein Auto: 2009 750I
Interesting. Keep us posted.
__________________
2009 750i Imperial Blue
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-16-2013, 07:53 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Here is one of the drain pans. That chunk appears to be some buildup or part of a gasket. I am leaning towars part of a gasket because the perfect countour of one of the pieces. They break down very easily.


Small aluminum slivers in the filter. Considering pulling heads soon...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-19-2013, 01:46 PM
GeoX750Li's Avatar
GeoX750Li GeoX750Li is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Chicago, IL
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 663
Mein Auto: 2010 750Li X-Drive
Sorry to hear about the issues. I just passed 50K miles, no problems yet, but wanted to keep my car long term and am worried to see your post.

We've seen BMW's problems with injectors and pumps, but your problem seems more, any updates?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-19-2013, 02:30 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Re: Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

Mine started with the injectors but it immediately led to this. I have learned a few things from this experience. If your car starts to spit or sputter, park it immediately. Always know exactly what your sensor states your oil level is at. Going down a little over 1500 is normal. "Oil" level rising, not normal. Trust your sensor. I replaced injectors but with gasoline in the oil, the damage was done. We shouldn't have to worry about all of this while driving these cars.

My service rep strongly encouraged me to bring my car to them. He said he would contact BMW to see what they would do to help but he needed to know what was wrong with the car first. I had it towed the 50 mile haul to them today. I should know more within 48hrs.

Best case scenario only a rod bearing is shot and a SKILLED tech can replace without pulling motor, only dropping the pan.

My rep told me I should expect to spend around 9k. I will not be spending $9k on any motor work on a > $100k BMW with just over 40k mi on it. If I had 100k+ on the vehicle I could stomach throwing some money into the block (new injectors, plugs, coils, etc).

My expectations are for BMW to step up and stand by their product and take care of the situation.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:58 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Re: Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

Dealership called today. They told me they "think" the knock is coming from to top of the motor. They want to pull the heads and send them to the machine shop. They said they "hope" this will fix the problem. If not they will reevaluate. He quoted me > $14k for the job and was seeking my permission to begin. He said he hadn't heard from BMW as to whether or not they would cover the bill.

If the problem was a guaranteed fix I could see myself potentially giving them permission to work on it.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-20-2013, 04:03 PM
GeoX750Li's Avatar
GeoX750Li GeoX750Li is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Chicago, IL
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 663
Mein Auto: 2010 750Li X-Drive
Crap, that sucks big. I think you need BMW to cover or at least another opinion before investing that kind of money without knowning if it will fix the problem.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-23-2013, 01:54 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Just heard from dealer's service department. The BMW Goodwill Assistance Program declined to pay for any of the repairs. This is extremely infuriating. I do not see how BMW does not feel any part responsible. I did however contact BMW NA last thursday and have been talking with them. I will just have to wait to see what they decide to do.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-25-2013, 06:48 AM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Re: Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

BMW NA contacted me this morning. They let me know that they would not cover the repairs on my 7 or offer any assistance. The representative that contacted me had no information on why they wouldn't cover any of the repairs. He stated that he does not have any direct contact with the team that makes those decisions.

It amazes me that BMW does not feel any bit responsible. I have had all maintenance performed by my BMW dealership on time, never late. I had my old changed only 1k miles ago. My engine is spitting out metal because there is fuel in the oil secondary to a failed injector.

Rather than purchasing a 2015 7 this next year I will have to explore other options. I will not drive a car with such questionable reliability whose manufacturer will turn their back to you. Getting rid of my family's BMWs as well. I'm thinking a Panamera...

I will fix this 7. I would sell it but I'd rather it not be on the road. One less BMW on the road will make me feel a little better. I think I will have it parted out. Lose $ for principal.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-30-2013, 12:07 AM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Re: Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

Click image for larger version

Name:	1380524842777.jpg
Views:	1468
Size:	72.8 KB
ID:	399580

Sent from my DROID RAZR using BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-04-2013, 05:48 AM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Re: Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

Sent from my DROID RAZR using BimmerApp mobile app
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1380890872757.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	60.9 KB
ID:	400443   Click image for larger version

Name:	1380890888643.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	52.6 KB
ID:	400444  
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-04-2013, 06:16 AM
jwanes jwanes is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 138
Mein Auto: 2009 750I
Are you doing this yourself?
__________________
2009 750i Imperial Blue
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:01 PM
Axion_E46 Axion_E46 is online now
Registered User
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 36
Mein Auto: 4 E38's, F02
Sorry to see another N63 fail due to faulty injectors. I believe that's how member "Jersseven" lost his engine, only he ended up with a hole in the side of the block. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?p=7754631

Also, even though this is bit late now, yes replacing an injector requires coding. It's important to note each injector's adjustment value, and which cylinder the associated injector is in. I attached a PDF of the injector replacement procedure.

Keep us updated with pics.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf N63 injector replacement.pdf (801.3 KB, 100 views)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:36 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Re: Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwanes View Post
Are you doing this yourself?
Yes. Makes for a good side project while my Chevelle is being painted.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:40 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Re: Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

Really is unfortunate. I did learn that the injectors needed programmed. I also learned that the model number that ends with -05 is not compatible with the model number ending in -11. When using the ICOM to program the bank the software isn't happy with the mix (which makes no sense!). I've added 3 more injectors to the list. Thanks for the info.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:54 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Re: Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

Update: BMW NA randomly contacted me two days ago. They decided to open the case back up and see what they can do to fix the issue. The rep I spoke with asked, "If we are unable to resolve the issue with your BMW would you be interested in picking out a CPO?" Honestly, I want my car fixed. It is fully loaded. Not missing a single option.

As you can see I've dove pretty deep into it already. The heads are perfect. The cams are perfect. The cam journals are perfect. The upper oil pan shows the beginning signs of a leak and the turbos had a decent puddle of oil under them. Every single valve, the tops of every piston, and 7/8 cylinder walls are perfect (scoped them). One cylinder wall has two tiny scratches that can be honed.

The engine will only turn 350***176;…. I can force it through that 10***176; with ~300lbs of torque. My diagnosis, the #4 rod is bent or stretched. I will know more when I take the pans off (I do not understand why BMW did not do this, my dumb self didn't BC the BMW service tech told me that it was NOT the bottom end and WAS the LH head...)

Sent from my DROID RAZR using BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:55 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Re: Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

Sent from my DROID RAZR using BimmerApp mobile app
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1380952554118.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	57.6 KB
ID:	400578  
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-04-2013, 11:27 PM
Axion_E46 Axion_E46 is online now
Registered User
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 36
Mein Auto: 4 E38's, F02
Interesting. Was the engine running before you pulled it? Strange it would have so much resistance if it was.

Good to know about the injector revisions. I just came across this bit of info regarding them:

IMPORTANT: Injectors with index 10 and lower have a different calibration and construction than injectors with index 11 and higher. Due to this difference, the injectors with index 10 and lower and injectors with index 11 and higher cannot be mixed in the same engine.
The index number can be found on the head of the injector after the BMW part number. Example: 13 53 8 616 079-11. "11" is the index number.


Good luck with the BMW NA case, hope they take care of it or at least work something out to your satisfaction.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:44 AM
texgeekboy texgeekboy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Texas
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 358
Mein Auto: '14 750i
I have an '09 750 with virtually the same problem. I've had 2 drive train malfunctions come up, one at around 30K miles and another about 68K (I currently have 70K miles). I have extended warranty an maintenance (more on that later). I've had the low fuel pressure sensor replaced and all 8 injectors. The knock became very apparent after the last drive train malfunction error. When I took it into the shop, I had one of the techs, not the SA ride with me to show it to him, which he admitted he observed. When I got it back after a week it was still there. I talked to the service manager and basically asked why they didn't fix the problem. His response floored me, he said there wasn't a lot of money in it for them for doing work under extended warranty! I was planning on taking it in this week and having it out with him and the sales manager, and then my car got crunched (I have a thread on that). So, the issue is on hold for now. However, based on your thread, I'm rethinking a purchase of another 7.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:39 AM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
I am sorry to hear about/see your 7 but glad to you nobody was injured. My parking brake on an E65 I owned clamped down on its own immediatelty after throwing a brake malfunction. I was driving 70+ on soaked pavement on a rainy day on a 4 lane highway. I did multiple spins then decided to recollect myslef and steer like a boss. My car ended up in a water run-off standing up on the passengers side. I happily took that over the concrete divider that seperated the highway from an exit ramp I narrowly missed.

Very unfortunate to hear your N63 has a knock. Really terrible they havn't diagnosed it as well. I get so annoyed when they replace multiple components and still havn't resolved the issue; this makes me feel these car are too complex for them to manage properly. Going through thus engine there are so many possibilities as to what could cause a knock. I am now confident I could diagnose it more accurately and faster than most dealers. If/when you get back to tending to the knock let me know. I will help you figure it out the best I can.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:41 AM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axion_E46 View Post
Interesting. Was the engine running before you pulled it? Strange it would have so much resistance if it was.

Good to know about the injector revisions. I just came across this bit of info regarding them:

IMPORTANT: Injectors with index 10 and lower have a different calibration and construction than injectors with index 11 and higher. Due to this difference, the injectors with index 10 and lower and injectors with index 11 and higher cannot be mixed in the same engine.
The index number can be found on the head of the injector after the BMW part number. Example: 13 53 8 616 079-11. "11" is the index number.


Good luck with the BMW NA case, hope they take care of it or at least work something out to your satisfaction.
The engine ran, just with a knock. Perhaps it overcame the initial resistance and had enough torque and hp to cycle right past that point. Thank you for the info regarding the injectors.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:49 AM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indianapolis
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 123
Mein Auto: 09' 750Li
And rethinking another 7 is a fair call. I test drove a Bentley Continental GT and spoke with an owner of one. He has also owned many 7's and currently owns one. He takes his Bentley to important meetings and on road trips, reliability. He loves his 7 but had replaced the turbos, injectors, and battery all before 25k.

I love my 7, there is nothing like the cockpit of the 7 (for me at least). The BMW is much more ergonomic than the Bentley I drove so therefore it would be hard to give up my BMW...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:55 AM
IEbimmerguy's Avatar
IEbimmerguy IEbimmerguy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cali
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 127
Mein Auto: E38, e23, e3
Knock coming from engine after Drive Train Malfunction

Sorry about the issues you're having. Nothing more stressful than car issues with no end in sight.
Screw BMW and their dealerships. If you're sick and tired of the issues, why not get a Tesla Model S? Surely you've seen the rave reviews...... Put an end to oil leaks, cooling system failures, turbo and tranny issues, etc.
Serious?! It's 2013, no need for unreliable cars in this day and age..... In sooo over BMWs, DONE!


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
750li, engine knock, injectors


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 7 Series / 8 Series > 7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms