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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 09-18-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
I think the reason we see so many different age groups in F30s is the fact (which has been belabored around here plenty) that the car can be many things to many people.

For the younger buyers, it's a sporty sedan, capable of handling the needs of a new/young/growing family. It's an entry level vehicle into the world of BMW (or German luxury in general). Using myself as an example, I drove a $16k Pontiac in college, a $30k Audi as a young resident doc and now as a practicing MD I'm in a $49k BMW. Depending on how my needs change, a hypothetical progression could be a 3 wagon/GT in a few years when the kids are bigger and have more stuff and then a 5 down the line. (I'm not a 7 guy, so I'd probably never go that big, but when I'm in my 50s, I'll probably appreciate the extra room in the 5)

On the other side of things, the majority of the baby boomers I see in F30s locally appear to be in a car that is the culmination of decades of Fusions/Malibus/Passats. They spent their lives working, saving some money, helping their kids through college, and now they have the time and money to enjoy a little luxury like an F30. My mom, for example, has had Passats for her last 4 vehicles. She has a few years left on this current lease, and she's thinking about her next car being something more luxurious. She was initially planning on an A6 as it's the natural step up from the Passat with a basic vehicle she's already essentially familiar with. Having seen how much the F30 has grown over prior 3ers, though, she's now planning to look at an F30 herself.

The difference here will be trim/specs. My mom will be looking at lux line with all the comfort features. Her car will be quite a bit different from my black sport line. She'll never use the phone integration. She doesn't have digital music files. She loves her satellite radio. Nav will be a must for her, but the sport auto transmission will be irrelevant.

Sorry for making this a long essay, but hopefully it makes the point that, rather than arguing over what demographic is most represented in the F30, we should simply note that the F30 targets many demographics, and that's why sales are soaring.
You have my sympathy that you're an MD. So few specialties are gettin paid anymore, good luck with that. My father just quit practicing because how increasingly hard it has become to make anything anymore.
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  #77  
Old 09-18-2013, 10:48 AM
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I see the point everybody is trying to make about BMW trying to reach a wider demographic and the gear head/sports sedan folks seem to be the minority versus the comfort/luxury buyer. The point I think that everybody is missing is that it is extremely simple to do both.

Have one freaking package that is setup to perform as good as past cars. Now some people would be dismissing that and say M sport does that. According to most of the automotive press and many drivers on this board, it does not live up to past cars and is not as much fun to drive as say an ATS or S4. (not unanimous on the S4 part but pretty well accepted that the ATS is much more fun) They can still have the bland setup for everyone that wants a grocery getter car, AND have the slightly more kidney jarring, road holding sport machine for the rest of us. You can have your cake and eat it too, and I think BMW is missing the boat on a loyal segment of its buyers. When they come out with an M3 that handles like a dream we will all know they CAN do it, the question will be why did they not give more of that to the current F30 owners?

What I would really like to know from BMW is, "Is this what we should expect in the future and they are just moving on from some enthusiasts, or do they know they screwed the pooch a bit and intend to remedy it? "

For those that love the handling and think it is top notch. I am really glad you like it. Seriously, that is not meant to be a smart ass comment. For lots of people it may be the best setup they have ever owned. But for people who have driven cars that were superior, including having had the pleasure of driving prior 3 series that were superior, it is a bit of a letdown.
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  #78  
Old 09-18-2013, 11:45 AM
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So basically, the F30 Luxury line is for the older female baby boomers. BJ was right in one respect, his car is for older drivers.
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  #79  
Old 09-18-2013, 11:49 AM
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So basically, the F30 Luxury line is for the older female baby boomers. BJ was right in one respect, his car is for older drivers.
I could have gone my entire life without seeing the words "older female baby boomers" and "BJ" that close together.
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  #80  
Old 09-18-2013, 12:48 PM
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I could have gone my entire life without seeing the words "older female baby boomers" and "BJ" that close together.
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  #81  
Old 09-18-2013, 01:46 PM
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I could have gone my entire life without seeing the words "older female baby boomers" and "BJ" that close together.
I bet you're a riot with the patients.

So, I'm in Florida and away from PA where I have my regular doctors (when I go which is rarely, fortunately). I now have something going on with my left ear which closed up when I took a trip over the mountains to Upstate NY a couple of weeks ago, and has not opened since. Anyway, I call an ENT here for an appointment and they said they would fit me in. I go to the doctor's office and see that it is jammed with people waiting to see the doctor. As I sat down to fill out the paperwork, I asked the person next to me how long they have been waiting. He said an hour and a half. Another person said they had been there over 2 hours. I thanked both of them and returned my blank paperwork and said have a nice day.

Is it too much to ask for doctors to schedule their appointments better than this guy does? I hope this is not a sign of things to come with Obamacare.
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  #82  
Old 09-18-2013, 02:05 PM
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I bet you're a riot with the patients.

So, I'm in Florida and away from PA where I have my regular doctors (when I go which is rarely, fortunately). I now have something going on with my left ear which closed up when I took a trip over the mountains to Upstate NY a couple of weeks ago, and has not opened since. Anyway, I call an ENT here for an appointment and they said they would fit me in. I go to the doctor's office and see that it is jammed with people waiting to see the doctor. As I sat down to fill out the paperwork, I asked the person next to me how long they have been waiting. He said an hour and a half. Another person said they had been there over 2 hours. I thanked both of them and returned my blank paperwork and said have a nice day.

Is it too much to ask for doctors to schedule their appointments better than this guy does? I hope this is not a sign of things to come with Obamacare.
That's horrendous. I imagine in places where doctor shortages are more prominent, this is a bigger problem, and will continue to get worse. In the Chicago area, we have 5 major academic medical centers plus a robust network of community hospitals. I have never referred a patient (I'm an internal medicine primary care doc) to an ENT or any specialist and had them tell me about wait times like that. Emergencies certainly can occur, but that is not acceptable, and I would hope it's that doctor's issue and not the way things are in the part of Florida you're in.

I feel terrible and apologize if I make someone wait more than 10 minutes, and even that is pretty rare.

Regarding the impending changes and large numbers of people expected to get insurance - my personal thoughts are that this won't have the impact some are fearing. Many of the uninsured are the "healthy young" - they're the ones the government needs to compel to purchase insurance because they will fund the costs of caring for the baby boomers (there's a lot of them, and apparently they're getting old...) Many of these new, young and healthy people will see a doctor once a year because they can...or not at all because they don't want to. We will definitely be needing more primary care doctors, but that's the case regardless of what happens with the insurance industry.

There's a lot of unknowns, regardless.

Hopefully my response was generally neutral. I can't say I have strong feeling pro/anti the ACA, mostly because I (like most Americans, including those who signed the bill) don't really know exactly what it's all going to mean or what it will entail.

Okay, I shall stop before I get reprimanded or banished to political science OT forums
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  #83  
Old 09-18-2013, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I bet you're a riot with the patients.

So, I'm in Florida and away from PA where I have my regular doctors (when I go which is rarely, fortunately). I now have something going on with my left ear which closed up when I took a trip over the mountains to Upstate NY a couple of weeks ago, and has not opened since. Anyway, I call an ENT here for an appointment and they said they would fit me in. I go to the doctor's office and see that it is jammed with people waiting to see the doctor. As I sat down to fill out the paperwork, I asked the person next to me how long they have been waiting. He said an hour and a half. Another person said they had been there over 2 hours. I thanked both of them and returned my blank paperwork and said have a nice day.

Is it too much to ask for doctors to schedule their appointments better than this guy does? I hope this is not a sign of things to come with Obamacare.
I found this way always happening for two reasons according to my father. 1) Many doctors are arrogant people who do not respect their patients time. He always said that if he was going to charge people for a no-show or made them lose their appointment time for being more than 15 minutes late, he had to respect their time and made every effort to do so, unless he had to get called into emergency surgery. Not all physicians feel this way. 2) The margins for most doctors who run office hours seeing patients at their small group practice have gotten so ridiculously low because of ever growing overhead and lowering reimbursements (the government is constantly cutting Medicare/Medicaid fees for service, and even if you don't accept those patients, the big insurance companies try to follow the same fee schedules and it causes cuts to doctors reimbursements (all those savings Obamacare was supposed to generate in the first decade came from savings made in Medicare physician reimbursement cuts (which were so low many doctors would lose money to see those patients so they don't).

Anyway, with tight margins, you try to make it up in volume. So this is what happens.

Also, the doctor shortages will continue as many people with perfectly good practicing years left are quitting early like my father. He sold his practice to the local hospital and walked away after Obamacare was passed. In the 18 months following that, his practice which was still thriving in 2007 caused him to have two stretches of 90 days in a calendar year without being able to cover overhead and pay himself. So, at 54 he got out, and took a consulting job. Now he's working the first 40 hour work weeks of his life, and has more time to do the mission work in Gabon and Ghana at those mission hospitals and makes more than he was when he was practicing (the last two years) has health benefits and paid time off.

Yeah, Obamacare was the nail in the coffin for locally owned small group private practices.

It's only going to get worse. Certain specialties will feel it first, OBGYN will be one of the worst with shortages.

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  #84  
Old 09-18-2013, 03:24 PM
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That's what I feared. I heard this had been the case with uninsured people jamming the hospital emergency rooms, but I didn't think it would be happening with specialist practices. It looked like a cattle call.

Before my father passed away, I used to take him to some of his doctor appointments. I was impressed with his Urologist. This large practice had about 6 doctors, and each had a physician assistant along with an ample staff of nurses. The PAs would handle many non essential issues which would free the doctors to do their diagnostic and other things that required their attention. This was a very well run organization, that the doctor I went to see today, could benefit from adopting their modus operandi.

As I'm getting older, I don't look forward to a life waiting in doctors offices. I'd rather be out cruising the countryside.
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  #85  
Old 09-18-2013, 03:34 PM
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According to most of the automotive press and many drivers on this board, it does not live up to past cars and is not as much fun to drive as say an ATS or S4. (not unanimous on the S4 part but pretty well accepted that the ATS is much more fun)
Show me where you read/saw that. All I have seen has said the ATS is "almost" as good as the 3, never a mention of more fun to drive. In fact, most have said that the power delivery was unrefined and did not make a good sound. As for ride, most stated it was close, but the 3 still proved to be better in execution.

Don't get me wrong, the ATS is a serious contender for the class, but no one in the automotive press has put it over the 3.
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  #86  
Old 09-18-2013, 04:27 PM
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Show me where you read/saw that. All I have seen has said the ATS is "almost" as good as the 3, never a mention of more fun to drive. In fact, most have said that the power delivery was unrefined and did not make a good sound. As for ride, most stated it was close, but the 3 still proved to be better in execution.

Don't get me wrong, the ATS is a serious contender for the class, but no one in the automotive press has put it over the 3.
September '13 Issue of Motor Trend. "The Cadillac ATS outshone everyone else in one single category. Ride and handling. In terms of smiles produced and fun to drive, no other car was even close. But as right as Cadillac got the ATS chasis, it dropped the ball eleswhere, especially in CUE."

They were comparing the Audi S4 (2nd in fun to drive), BMW 335i xDrive, Lexus IS 350 AWD, and Volvo S60 T6 AWD (last). The only reason the S4 didn't win overall (got 2nd place), was that they said the car was getting a bit long in the tooth, especially in the interior. The BMW won "featuring the best of everything. Just doesn't have any glaring flaws. Still master of the segment it created."

The BMW was the most expensive and it really seemed like the S4 did equal or better in all categories, so I'm not sure how they came to their conclusion, but it is what it is.
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  #87  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:14 PM
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September '13 Issue of Motor Trend. "The Cadillac ATS outshone everyone else in one single category. Ride and handling. In terms of smiles produced and fun to drive, no other car was even close. But as right as Cadillac got the ATS chasis, it dropped the ball eleswhere, especially in CUE."

They were comparing the Audi S4 (2nd in fun to drive), BMW 335i xDrive, Lexus IS 350 AWD, and Volvo S60 T6 AWD (last). The only reason the S4 didn't win overall (got 2nd place), was that they said the car was getting a bit long in the tooth, especially in the interior. The BMW won "featuring the best of everything. Just doesn't have any glaring flaws. Still master of the segment it created."

The BMW was the most expensive and it really seemed like the S4 did equal or better in all categories, so I'm not sure how they came to their conclusion, but it is what it is.
That sums it up, xDrive. Here's the complete opposite story.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...o/viewall.html

I couldn't find if the 335xi they used had the DHP. Anyone know?

I find it funny that in both articles they still gave the 3 1st place.
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  #88  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:20 PM
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That sums it up, xDrive. Here's the complete opposite story.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...o/viewall.html

I couldn't find if the 335xi they used had the DHP. Anyone know?

I find it funny that in both articles they still gave the 3 1st place.
The 335i xDrive BMW they tested listed for $61,860 and had adjustable shocks front and rear. That would be DHP? The S4 listed for $58,620.
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:22 PM
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I bet you're a riot with the patients.

So, I'm in Florida and away from PA where I have my regular doctors (when I go which is rarely, fortunately). I now have something going on with my left ear which closed up when I took a trip over the mountains to Upstate NY a couple of weeks ago, and has not opened since. Anyway, I call an ENT here for an appointment and they said they would fit me in. I go to the doctor's office and see that it is jammed with people waiting to see the doctor. As I sat down to fill out the paperwork, I asked the person next to me how long they have been waiting. He said an hour and a half. Another person said they had been there over 2 hours. I thanked both of them and returned my blank paperwork and said have a nice day.

Is it too much to ask for doctors to schedule their appointments better than this guy does? I hope this is not a sign of things to come with Obamacare.
They say Florida is God's waiting room.
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:24 PM
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They say Florida is God's waiting room.
That's what they used to call Miami. Most of my neighbors are 20+ years older than me, so maybe the Palm Beach area has become closest to the head of the line?
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:24 PM
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Not really. I'm in my early 30s too. At the hospital where I work, the majority of the docs driving F30s are younger like me. The older docs have moved up 5s and 7s, E-classes and *gasp!* big Lexuses (whatever those are called...Avalon Gold or something)

There are certainly baby boomers in F30s, and there's a lot of baby boomers in general, so they're probably a big chunk of every car's buying group. But, at least in my parking lot, the F30 (and E9x) are mostly male and mostly in their 30s to early 40s


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funny I'm in my early 30s and i also work in a hospital but most of the Dr i work with they all drive 5,7 , benleys and porches
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:40 PM
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funny I'm in my early 30s and i also work in a hospital but most of the Dr i work with they all drive 5,7 , benleys and porches
Dr. 328xi is still relatively starting out in his professional life after medical school and residency. I'm sure he will be successful enough to drive whatever he wants down the line.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:44 PM
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funny I'm in my early 30s and i also work in a hospital but most of the Dr i work with they all drive 5,7 , benleys and porches
Docs are getting paid a lot better in your area than here if they're driving Bentleys...especially if they're younger docs with debt, they likely had money to start with. Medicine affords a very comfortable lifestyle, but it's certainly never going to put me in a Bentley!


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Old 09-18-2013, 07:46 PM
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Dr. 328xi is still relatively starting out in his professional life after medical school and residency. I'm sure he will be successful enough to drive whatever he wants down the line.
Very true about just starting out...I still owe a couple Bentleys worth of student loans... Haha


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Old 09-18-2013, 07:47 PM
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Very true about just starting out...I still owe a couple Bentleys worth of student loans... Haha


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Old 09-18-2013, 08:01 PM
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It will be all worth it with every life you help or save.
Very true. I always tell people considering medicine that there's better ways to make money, but there's nothing i'd rather do. I was in advertising for a while before med school, and my life is immeasurably better now.


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  #97  
Old 09-18-2013, 08:42 PM
BMW X Series BMW X Series is offline
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Mein Auto: 2013 328i X-Drive
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Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
Docs are getting paid a lot better in your area than here if they're driving Bentleys...especially if they're younger docs with debt, they likely had money to start with. Medicine affords a very comfortable lifestyle, but it's certainly never going to put me in a Bentley!


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you are right about that some of them came from money. but must of the doctor i work with they are big time surgeons in their late 40s. but dont worry you be ok
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  #98  
Old 09-19-2013, 08:00 AM
jwalz1 jwalz1 is offline
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Mein Auto: 2014 328xi
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Originally Posted by greywolf328i View Post
Show me where you read/saw that. All I have seen has said the ATS is "almost" as good as the 3, never a mention of more fun to drive. In fact, most have said that the power delivery was unrefined and did not make a good sound. As for ride, most stated it was close, but the 3 still proved to be better in execution.

Don't get me wrong, the ATS is a serious contender for the class, but no one in the automotive press has put it over the 3.
Sorry to be lazy but it was not just Motor Trend. If you read most of the comparisons or watch the video reviews, they pretty much heap praise on the fun to drive nature of the ATS but pan the lousy transmission. I drove one. It is pretty tight, but I could not bring myself to buy a Caddy and there are a bunch of things I did not like about the car.

Just start googling 335/328 vs ATS and you will see it in virtually every review. Rough engine (four banger version) and tranny in the ATS, but the chassis is well sorted.

I bought the 3 because I thought it was the best all around car, but that does not mean a competitor hasn't done a particular aspect better.

Road and Track on the ATS:

The suspension feels tight, leaving you clearly in command.

We loved hustling this all-of-a-piece car, the best-handling sedan that Cadillac-and GM-has ever produced



But from the same article on the 3 series (that beat the Caddy overall):

In the past, you put up with a Three's yuppie image and high cost of ownership because the Bavarians seemed to care the most about the intangibles.

The chassis still makes you look like a genius, and in normal driving, the BMW exudes a rare sense of effortlessness. The ZF-sourced gearbox is so quick-witted and smooth that you almost don't miss a clutch pedal. But the new-to-this-car electric power steering is heartbreakingly bland and distant.

On the road, chasing the IS 350, the BMW seems to offer less usable grip; this means the driver works harder and has to pay more attention, which is usually a good thing. But the message has been diluted. If the last 335i whispered in your ear, this one just yells at you in staccato bursts.

Sadly, it's not enough. The 335i's wants, compared with both past BMWs and the winner of this test, are stacked a little too deep. This is a hell of a car. But we had more fun with, and ultimately wanted to spend more time in, something else.


I am cutting and pasting snippets, but the theme was the same in every comparison I read, and echoed what I felt behind the wheel of both cars. On my ED and my test drive, I really liked the way the car handled in normal traffic or some lazy curves, but when pushed on a mountain pass I thought "This is it?" Now I have Xdrive which most people say is crap anyway, but the article quoted above was a 335 M sport. A much better suspension than I have, and still not drawing accolades. I have been driving tightly wound light weight two seaters for the past 25 years, so maybe I am spoiled a bit. I dunno. Overall I love the car, but I have never bought a car before and instantly started thinking about swapping out shocks and springs. The fact that I am thinking about it on a BMW 3 series no less is what is most surprising to me.

Last edited by jwalz1; 09-19-2013 at 08:32 AM.
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  #99  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:08 AM
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need4speed need4speed is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
I could have gone my entire life without seeing the words "older female baby boomers" and "BJ" that close together.
I dunna know, Gen X myself, but... Demi Moore, Raquel Welch, Bo Derek, Vanessa Williams, Geena Davis. Just sayin'. N4S

Last edited by need4speed; 09-19-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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  #100  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:21 AM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Mein Auto: '11 E93 335is & '08 535xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by need4speed View Post
I dunna know, Gen X myself, but... Demi Moore, Raquel Welch, Bo Derek, Vanessa Williams, Geena Davis. Just sayin'. N4S
I met Bo Derek last year at a charity event. She still looks great.
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