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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 09-22-2013, 12:45 PM
Crom! Crom! is offline
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Retrofit steering with hydraulic? LOL

Just wanted to know if there are any brave souls willing or thinking about retrofitting their F30's to have hydraulic steering.... or is such feat is even possible??? I am only asking because my friend let me drive both his 2013 F30 m-sport and his 2008 E90 and the difference in steering made me regret ordering my F30 (arrives on 31th of October). But anyways, anyone thought of this or is thinking about it?
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  #2  
Old 09-22-2013, 01:23 PM
Nerdboss Nerdboss is offline
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Okay, this is getting completely out of hand! It's not that bad! Everyone gets used to it, it's just a little lighter.

No it's not possible to swap, just enjoy your f30 and let all of the e90 drivers be jealous.
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  #3  
Old 09-22-2013, 01:44 PM
f30jojo f30jojo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerdboss View Post
Okay, this is getting completely out of hand! It's not that bad! Everyone gets used to it, it's just a little lighter.

No it's not possible to swap, just enjoy your f30 and let all of the e90 drivers be jealous.
+1,000,000.. jesus people. also to the OP, if you like it so much than trade your F30 in for a cpo e90 lol.

people make it seem like the steering is so light its unbearable. its 100% acceptable especially after you get use to it.

joe
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  #4  
Old 09-22-2013, 01:51 PM
greywolf328i greywolf328i is offline
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Re: Retrofit steering with hydraulic? LOL

Can anyone explain why heavier steering is better? What tangible performance impact does it make?

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  #5  
Old 09-22-2013, 01:53 PM
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Mark K Mark K is offline
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Re: Retrofit steering with hydraulic? LOL

So ... is the emperor naked or his new clothes are truly awesome? Dang it, don't keep me on needles ... don't want to read the whole thing!

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  #6  
Old 09-22-2013, 01:58 PM
bt1339 bt1339 is offline
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Originally Posted by greywolf328i View Post
Can anyone explain why heavier steering is better? What tangible performance impact does it make?

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This is the $64,000 question and don't hold your breath for an answer! Complaining about the F30 steering became a thing of fashion! I haven't received my car yet but I so want to start my own F30 steering complain thread!
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  #7  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:35 PM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywolf328i View Post
Can anyone explain why heavier steering is better? What tangible performance impact does it make?

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Heavier does not equal better,
For me it's the lack of feedback. It does not tell me what my front tires are doing the way my older BMWs did.
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  #8  
Old 09-22-2013, 05:04 PM
Elk Elk is offline
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+1

Heavier is not better. It is the lack of steering communication which is the issue.

It is the difference between:

1. "You are getting close to the limit." "Your are now right on the edge." "That little bit more throttle brought it back to 9/10s."

- and -

2. "You are cornering." "Sure is a corner." "Whoa, you are out of control and spinning."
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  #9  
Old 09-22-2013, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
+1

Heavier is not better. It is the lack of steering communication which is the issue.

It is the difference between:

1. "You are getting close to the limit." "Your are now right on the edge." "That little bit more throttle brought it back to 9/10s."

- and -

2. "You are cornering." "Sure is a corner." "Whoa, you are out of control and spinning."
Which 99% of those on this forum never get close to and then the 1% who do only do it on a closed course. And, surprisingly enough, none of the professionals who have taken the 3er to the limit have reported they feared its steering put them in danger of exceeding the car's limits.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 09-22-2013 at 05:52 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-22-2013, 05:52 PM
Elk Elk is offline
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You are entirely missing the point, I suspect deliberately.

A good car communicates what is happening at all times, under all conditions.

A poorly communicating car informs you of only the big, obvious things such as "you are turning a corner" but nothing about the surface, the undulations, the camber, etc.

A car with good feedback is fun to drive; a car without, dull. I am certain you are familiar with the criticisms of a '70's Buick with a floating suspension and overboosted steering - awful on any road.

It takes nothing more than backing down a driveway to know and feel the difference between a good and bad driving car. It has nothing to do with being on a track (which is not where an F30 belongs in any event - its an entry level luxury car, not a performance machine.) This does not mean it should not communicate well however.
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  #11  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
You are entirely missing the point, I suspect deliberately.

A good car communicates what is happening at all times, under all conditions.

A poorly communicating car informs you of only the big, obvious things such as "you are turning a corner" but nothing about the surface, the undulations, the camber, etc.

A car with good feedback is fun to drive; a car without, dull. I am certain you are familiar with the criticisms of a '70's Buick with a floating suspension and overboosted steering - awful on any road.

It takes nothing more than backing down a driveway to know and feel the difference between a good and bad driving car. It has nothing to do with being on a track (which is not where an F30 belongs in any event - its an entry level luxury car, not a performance machine.) This does not mean it should not communicate well however.
As, I suspect, are you.

Over the past seven years I've owned a 2000 E46 328i non-sport, a 2004 E46 330i ZHP, and a 2006 E90 330i with sport package and active steering. It turns out my first car was a 70's Buick, a 1972 Buick Skylark.

I don't own an F30, but I have driven a number of them - a 2012 328i Luxury, a 2012 328i Sport, a 2013 328i xDrive Sport, a 2013 328i xDrive M Sport, a 2013 335 xDrive Luxury, and a 2014 320i xDrive. (xDrive - gotta love living in Chicago. Apparently without it you're in danger of sliding off into Lake Michigan.)

From my experience it is my opinion the hysteria exhibited on Bimmerfest over the EPS on the F3x is completely out of proportion to reality.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 09-22-2013 at 06:50 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:22 PM
greywolf328i greywolf328i is offline
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Re: Retrofit steering with hydraulic? LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
You are entirely missing the point, I suspect deliberately.

A good car communicates what is happening at all times, under all conditions.

A poorly communicating car informs you of only the big, obvious things such as "you are turning a corner" but nothing about the surface, the undulations, the camber, etc.

A car with good feedback is fun to drive; a car without, dull.
A good car does not just communicate well. It does lots of things well. You yourself are oversimplifying things. Communicating the road has nothing to do with how well a car performs, only it's uninformed driver benefits from it. A driver who is well acquainted with his car and road he is driving on does not need to feel it out, he knows what it can do because he has pushed it to the limit. I Does it add the fun factor, yes but so do other features. We all think the EPS could do with tuning, but it does not make the F30 any less sporty in terms of performance.

I think we all also know that tire choice plays a major factor in steering feel, and the run flats definitely are not great for this.

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  #13  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:10 PM
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Now, wait a minute, modern runflats are great tires, esp. those rated for my 146 mph top. I can throw my F30 into turns exactly as nicely as in my E36 and E46. And the new steering is lovely (though I have only done my 7000 miles in Sport mode). Now to investigate what it will cost to insure my car for a day for a track event. On my runflats.
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:48 PM
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LarryboysUDM LarryboysUDM is offline
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Originally Posted by PK2348 View Post
Heavier does not equal better,
For me it's the lack of feedback. It does not tell me what my front tires are doing the way my older BMWs did.
+1
The F30 is more luxury than sport. Those who have non RFT say they get more feedback. Wish non RFT was a dealer installed option.
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  #15  
Old 09-23-2013, 12:18 AM
Trey100 Trey100 is offline
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Retrofit steering with hydraulic? LOL

I test drove an S4 the other day and its steering has become really light as well with the switch to electric. At slow speeds its ridiculously light. This is with everything set to "dynamic". But for some reason you see very little talk on the Audi forums about the change in steering. I can't really say it had any more feedback than the BMW unit.

By the way the S4 is a great car but the steering is not, at least not at the speeds and roads I was driving on.


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  #16  
Old 09-23-2013, 06:30 AM
SanDiegoBMW328i SanDiegoBMW328i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
You are entirely missing the point, I suspect deliberately.

A good car communicates what is happening at all times, under all conditions.

A poorly communicating car informs you of only the big, obvious things such as "you are turning a corner" but nothing about the surface, the undulations, the camber, etc.

A car with good feedback is fun to drive; a car without, dull. I am certain you are familiar with the criticisms of a '70's Buick with a floating suspension and overboosted steering - awful on any road.

It takes nothing more than backing down a driveway to know and feel the difference between a good and bad driving car. It has nothing to do with being on a track (which is not where an F30 belongs in any event - its an entry level luxury car, not a performance machine.) This does not mean it should not communicate well however.
The value of this debate all hinges on what % of your driving this all actually matters?

Most of us would prefer to err on the side of ride comfort vs. feeling every nuance of the road). The 328i is a sport sedan. Not a sports car. The good news is BMW offers us more choices now so if you want a car that feels like a race car there are other models and options for that.
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  #17  
Old 09-23-2013, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
From my experience it is my opinion the hysteria exhibited on Bimmerfest over the EPS on the F3x is completely out of proportion to reality.
+

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  #18  
Old 09-23-2013, 06:55 AM
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I saw a review of the new 428 that sounds like BMW may have tuned more feel back into this car. Perhaps it's something that a software update will fix?
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerdboss View Post
Okay, this is getting completely out of hand! It's not that bad! Everyone gets used to it, it's just a little lighter.

No it's not possible to swap, just enjoy your f30 and let all of the e90 drivers be jealous.
I'm betting most of the complainers either don't own an F30...and some have probably never driven it. If they do own one and don't like it, then sell it. Pretty simple!

But if you buy an E90, don't go to that forum. They will tell you the suspension is harsh and you should have gotten an E46. The value of these forums is dropping really fast...
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:02 AM
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bighorns bighorns is offline
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Originally Posted by Bill-SD View Post
I'm betting most of the complainers either don't own an F30...and some have probably never driven it. If they do own one and don't like it, then sell it. Pretty simple!

But if you buy an E90, don't go to that forum. They will tell you the suspension is harsh and you should have gotten an E46. The value of these forums is dropping really fast...
I'll get back to you on the 'harsh suspension' after I change out the runflats, which seems to be the same suspect in the lack of feel in the F30?
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  #21  
Old 09-23-2013, 07:03 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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The complaints about EPS vs HPS are overblown but what the E90 HPS does is give you real security about the build up of loads in a turn. My morning drive takes me through a neighborhood with a few curves. I don't take them fast as it's a residential area but this morning I really noticed how well my E90 steering tightens through the turn. You just feel the slip angles (difference between the angle of the tire and that of the wheel) through the steering wheel. The F30 does this as well bu it feels artificial a light. It's not as bad as many make here but the mechanical element is missing.

That said, when my F30 arrives in a few weeks, I'll miss the E90 steering but appreciate the smoother ride, extra room, much improved interior layout and equal cornering limits.
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  #22  
Old 09-23-2013, 07:05 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bighorns View Post
I saw a review of the new 428 that sounds like BMW may have tuned more feel back into this car. Perhaps it's something that a software update will fix?
The 4 series has a lowered center of gravity and a stiffer chassis. That's the main reason for the improved steering feel. However, a recent short take in Car and Driver was not complimentary about the 4 series steering. The October edition has a lot of info on the F30 vs E90 steering issue.
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  #23  
Old 09-23-2013, 07:08 AM
SanDiegoBMW328i SanDiegoBMW328i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
The complaints about EPS vs HPS are overblown but what the E90 HPS does is give you real security about the build up of loads in a turn. My morning drive takes me through a neighborhood with a few curves. I don't take them fast as it's a residential area but this morning I really noticed how well my E90 steering tightens through the turn. You just feel the slip angles (difference between the angle of the tire and that of the wheel) through the steering wheel. The F30 does this as well bu it feels artificial a light. It's not as bad as many make here but the mechanical element is missing.

That said, when my F30 arrives in a few weeks, I'll miss the E90 steering but appreciate the smoother ride, extra room, much improved interior layout and equal cornering limits.
Does this include performing this in Sport mode?
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  #24  
Old 09-23-2013, 07:13 AM
bt1339 bt1339 is offline
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I think a lot of people that are complaining have xdrive, non M-Sport lines, non-DHP cars and all-season tires. Those are a lot of parameters that might explain some of what we're reading on this forum.
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  #25  
Old 09-23-2013, 07:27 AM
Trey100 Trey100 is offline
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Retrofit steering with hydraulic? LOL

Bt,

Actually I see a lot of RWD people complaining but I haven't done a poll or anything. I really wish I could get my hands on a DHP model to see how it effects the driving dynamics.




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