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E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 09-26-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
302 = 460 lbs
m52 = 436 lbs
302 with aluminum heads = 416 lbs

If you use aluminium heads you are actually losing weight, which nullifies your whole handling argument.
^This^. 24 lb wieght increase isn't going to be noticeable. The swap tranny is a bit heavier too but it's located just about right on the CG/CM of the car so it should have no effect on handling either.
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  #27  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
I want to hear about the joys of "daily" driving a v8 with a 3.91..
Hey, my GTO has three forward gears and a 4.10:1 diff...

3k @ 55pmh with a hulking old V8 feels like it's screaming. Good for the drag strip, not so good for cruising.
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  #28  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
302 = 460 lbs
m52 = 436 lbs
302 with aluminum heads = 416 lbs

If you use aluminium heads you are actually losing weight, which nullifies your whole handling argument.
Please quote the weights of a dressed motor including ancillary components when comparing the two.
Giving a naked weight against a dressed weight isnt exactly "proof" for your argument.


The M5x is 434.4lbs factory DRESSED.. 328 w/o
(dont forget the rare all aluminum M5x)
The 302 is 460lbs UN-DRESSED near 500lbs DRESSED..
(a supposed 44 lbs less with aluminum heads)
...... Which put the 5.0 near a M62 on the scales..

Got a running 5.0 you care to throw on the scale?



Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
^This^. 24 lb wieght increase isn't going to be noticeable.
Colin Chapman would disagree with you.. I do too.
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  #29  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ZeGerman View Post
Hey, my GTO has three forward gears and a 4.10:1 diff...

3k @ 55pmh with a hulking old V8 feels like it's screaming.
Good for the drag strip, not so good for cruising.
Gran Turismo Omologato!!!
I bet 55mph in that beast feels like your doing 100!
Nice monster to have in your garage.
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  #30  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:20 AM
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I bet 55mph in that beast feels like your doing 100!
I does, actually. Because of the gearing, 35-45mph is where it likes to cruise. Eventually I'd like to install a Gear Vendors under/overdrive so I can retain tall gearing for acceleration and be able to lower the revs while cruising.
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  #31  
Old 09-27-2013, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
Please quote the weights of a dressed motor including ancillary components when comparing the two.
Giving a naked weight against a dressed weight isnt exactly "proof" for your argument.


The M5x is 434.4lbs factory DRESSED.. 328 w/o
(dont forget the rare all aluminum M5x)
The 302 is 460lbs UN-DRESSED near 500lbs DRESSED..
(a supposed 44 lbs less with aluminum heads)
...... Which put the 5.0 near a M62 on the scales..

Got a running 5.0 you care to throw on the scale?
Where are you getting this 500 lbs dressed figure? Almost all sources I can find agree with the 302 weighing around 450 lbs. Heck, the only one I found that agrees with you contradicts itself http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/library/txt/engfyi.htm .
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  #32  
Old 09-27-2013, 08:43 PM
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  #33  
Old 09-27-2013, 11:01 PM
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The children are at it again.

For the record, I agree with Alex. ~450 for a dressed 302.
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  #34  
Old 09-28-2013, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
Where are you getting this 500 lbs dressed figure? Almost all sources I can find agree with the 302 weighing around 450 lbs.
Im not ****** arguing with you buddy... Im telling you the truth.

CRATE WEIGHT OF A UNDRESSED 302 IS 450-460..

DRESSED WEIGHT IS CLOSER TO 500...
(aluminum/iron heads, cast iron exhaust manifolds/shorty headers, carb or EFI, alternator, power steering, etc.) you're close to 500 lbs.


Like DC said earlier..
Quote:
The XX lbs weight increase isn't going to be noticeable.
I happen to disagree.



..




Wasnt this discussion about differentials anyway??
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  #35  
Old 09-28-2013, 01:09 AM
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The children are at it again.
Speaking of acting like a child..

Whats up with a Airchime, HH? K or P?
Ive been looking at outfitting the E3 with one.. er.. three..
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  #36  
Old 09-28-2013, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
Speaking of acting like a child..

Whats up with a Airchime, HH? K or P?
Ive been looking at outfitting the E3 with one.. er.. three..
For a car, go P series. Smaller, simpler, uses MUCH less air, and lasts forever. I've restored 60 year old P3s that still had the original diaphragms and seal rings, and they went back in 'em, because there was nothing wrong with them! You'll never find a K horn like that.

You may have to go eBay to find any. Micro Precision (Nathan AirChime) seems to have shut down their public sale page. If I had one to sell, I'd put it on you like a new haircut. I can always use the funds for more BMW stuff (or another car, like an E30 ).

OK, I really derailed this thread now. Contact me via PM if you want to discuss it further.
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  #37  
Old 09-28-2013, 05:28 AM
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ken, derailed threads are nothing new....

now as for dressed engines, are we talking formal wear, or more along the lines of beach attire??






cuz i'm all about teh sandals....



df
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  #38  
Old 09-28-2013, 02:32 PM
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Contact me via PM if you want to discuss...
THNX!
Will do..

Quote:
Originally Posted by drivinfaster View Post
now as for dressed engines, are we talking formal wear, or more along the lines of beach attire??

cuz i'm all about teh sandals....

df
Are onesies "out" this year? I suppose I could do a bikini..

Do you go with the Jellies, or the Gladiator sandals?
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  #39  
Old 09-28-2013, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post




Im not ****** arguing with you buddy... Im telling you the truth.

CRATE WEIGHT OF A UNDRESSED 302 IS 450-460..

DRESSED WEIGHT IS CLOSER TO 500...
(aluminum/iron heads, cast iron exhaust manifolds/shorty headers, carb or EFI, alternator, power steering, etc.) you're close to 500 lbs.


Like DC said earlier..

I happen to disagree.







Wasnt this discussion about differentials anyway??
I stated 24 lbs wasn't going to be noticeable, not any weight increase. I don't mind us having a technical difference of opinions, that's what makes forums fun, but I would prefer not to be mis-quoted thank you.
..
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  #40  
Old 09-28-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
I stated 24 lbs wasn't going to be noticeable, not any weight increase.
..
again.. Its not just 24lbs..

UNDRESSED 302 = 450-460
DRESSED 302 = ~500

UNDRESSED M5X = 328
DRESSED M5X = 434.4

Im damn near about to pull a 5.0 and weigh it just to have a visual aide.

ANY WEIGHT on the NOSE that isnt supposed to be there is BAD... for the record..

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
I don't mind us having a technical difference of opinions, that's what makes forums fun,
but I would prefer not to be mis-quoted thank you.
..
I wholeheartedly agree.. and by no means was trying to "bash" you.

How did I mis-quote you?
by spelling "weight" correctly?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
^This^. 24 lb wieght increase isn't going to be noticeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
Like DC said earlier..
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
The XX lbs. weight increase isn't going to be noticeable.
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  #41  
Old 09-28-2013, 04:58 PM
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Im not ****** arguing with you buddy
I am not your "buddy", friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
CRATE WEIGHT OF A UNDRESSED 302 IS 450-460..

DRESSED WEIGHT IS CLOSER TO 500...
(aluminum/iron heads, cast iron exhaust manifolds/shorty headers, carb or EFI, alternator, power steering, etc.) you're close to 500 lbs.
If we are talking about a 302 with lightweight parts on it like that it weighs even less. http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?40,1890280,page=1

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
Im damn near about to pull a 5.0 and weigh it just to have a visual aide.
Please, go a head and do that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
How did I mis-quote you?
by spelling "weight" correctly?
Don said that a 24 lb weight increase would not be noticeable. You quoted Don a saying a XX lb weight increase would not be noticeable. That is a big difference. XX could be any number between 0-99 and it is not to hard to interpret it as any number.
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  #42  
Old 09-28-2013, 06:52 PM
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alex, you mean the "XX" isn't dos equis??





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  #43  
Old 09-28-2013, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
I am not your "buddy", friend.
Im not your friend, guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
If we are talking about a 302 with lightweight parts on it like that it weighs even less. http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?40,1890280,page=1
..
if if if..
if we were talking about a $15,000 all aluminum race engine.
BUT, we're NOT.. Were talking about a 5.0 lump
and that is still missing ancillary components..

Dont ever reference a F@#$ing MG forum again.. ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
Please, go a head and do that.
Why dont you go ahead and do that?
Since you're bent on believing in firebreathing full dress 302's weighing less than goldfish legs.

When you sign my checks; you can assign me tasks.
Ill let you know when I come across one, ok hefe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
Don said that a 24 lb weight increase would not be noticeable.
You quoted Don a saying a XX lb weight increase would not be noticeable.
That is a big difference.
XX could be any number between 0-99 and it is not to hard to interpret it as any number.
noted.. thanks for the clarification.

Do you want me to do the math too?
again.. Its not just 24lbs.. more like XXlbs. now innit...

Quote:
UNDRESSED 302 = 450-460
DRESSED 302 = ~500

UNDRESSED M5X = 328
DRESSED M5X = 434.4
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  #44  
Old 09-28-2013, 07:26 PM
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Im damn near about to pull a 5.0 and weigh it just to have a visual aide.
This is the only way this age old debate will ever be put to rest. I've always suspected that the 5.0s weighed considerably more when wearing formal attire than the M5x engines. It was just a hunch, though.
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  #45  
Old 09-28-2013, 07:51 PM
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This is the only way this age old debate will ever be put to rest. I've always suspected that the 5.0s weighed considerably more when wearing formal attire than the M5x engines. It was just a hunch, though.
pssst... you gotta stand on this side of the line if you're not on their team..





The next one I see.. is getting ran on the scale.
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  #46  
Old 09-28-2013, 07:56 PM
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Im not ****** arguing with you buddy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
I am not your "buddy", friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
Im not your friend, guy.



waiting for alex to reply "i'm not your guy".....





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  #47  
Old 09-28-2013, 07:59 PM
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+1
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  #48  
Old 09-28-2013, 09:00 PM
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alex, you mean the "XX" isn't dos equis??
Ya, sorry DF, Don is not the most interesting man in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
Im not your friend, guy.
I am not you guy, buddy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
if if if..
if we were talking about a $15,000 all aluminum race engine.
BUT, we're NOT.. Were talking about a 5.0 lump
You are the one who brought up 302 with lightweight components. I was just showing you how little a 302 with lightweight parts installed would weigh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
Why dont you go ahead and do that?
Maybe in a few years when I swap my engine, if I go with a 302 I will do just that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
Dont ever reference a F@#$ing MG forum again.. ever.
I was originally planning on buying a Mazda Miata as a second car, but considering your reaction to MGs maybe I should get a MG Midget instead .


Quote:
Originally Posted by drivinfaster View Post
waiting for alex to reply "i'm not your guy".....
You saw where I was going with that. Unfortunately my timing got a little thrown off by GW2, but oh well here it is anyway.
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  #49  
Old 09-28-2013, 10:37 PM
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Ya, sorry DF, Don is not the most interesting man in the world.
Hes kept me intrigued.

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Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
I am not your guy, buddy!
zing!
Im not your buddy, pal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
You are the one who brought up 302 with lightweight components. I was just showing you how little a 302 with lightweight parts installed would weigh.
Nope.. that was you.. post #25.
Something along the lines of.."...with aluminum heads even less"

I know what a 302 weighs..
precisely why we're having such a jubilant time discussing it..

Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
Maybe in a few years when I swap my engine, if I go with a 302 I will do just that.
No.. please... no..
If you swap.. go with BMW powerplant.. please dear jesus, pedro, and mauricio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
I was originally planning on buying a Mazda Miata as a second car, but considering your reaction to MGs maybe I should get a MG Midget instead .
Its your money.. I'd recommend anything else..
If your looking to throw your money away on cheap thrills; may I suggest hookers & blow to start?

The up-side is.. in the morning you may be broke, feel like hell, crotch itching, mouth tasting like a catbox, and it'll burn when you pee..
but, you wont have that piece of sh!t in your garage, driveway, or carpark to remind you of your poor decisions.


Just maybe, a case of the herps.

But, I guess they got a creme for that.
(in the commercial there's puppies, and beaches, and kite flying..)
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Last edited by bmw-mania; 09-28-2013 at 10:39 PM.
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  #50  
Old 09-30-2013, 04:05 PM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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This is the only way this age old debate will ever be put to rest.
I've always suspected that the 5.0s weighed considerably more when wearing formal attire than the M5x engines.
It was just a hunch, though.


I went to a high society party this weekend..
and I got to rub elbows with some of the big's and some of the not-so-big.
After a few bottles of champagne and caviar..I got my greasy fingers on a 5.0..

A DRESSED 302 5.0L engine in formal attire is 521 lbs (NO FLYWHEEL)
A DRESSED M5x 3.xL engine in formal attire is 434 lbs

Hmm.. Well I feel like a beer... maybe I'll have a Dos Equis!


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