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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 09-26-2013, 03:04 PM
aDallo aDallo is offline
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Turbo Timer - Void Warranty?

Picked up a 08 335i last Saturday and I am loving it so far. I was reading the owners guide the other day and saw that it said to jump in the car and go right away without letting the motor warm up first...

Few concerns here:

I've owned a turbo car before (04 wrx) and I always let it warm up for at least 1 min before I head out. What do you guys suggest?

Cooling down... I usually wait about 2 min after I park to let the turbo slow down and cool off. What do you guys suggest here too?

I was thinking about getting a turbo timer but I wasn't sure if that would void the warranty. I purchased my car from Frank Toyota in San Diego and also purchased a bumper to bumper warranty with it because it's sitting at 89k miles. I can't remember who the warranty is through, but I was just looking for someone who has had past experiences with this.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2013, 03:33 PM
surfcity335i surfcity335i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aDallo View Post
Picked up a 08 335i last Saturday and I am loving it so far. I was reading the owners guide the other day and saw that it said to jump in the car and go right away without letting the motor warm up first...

Few concerns here:

I've owned a turbo car before (04 wrx) and I always let it warm up for at least 1 min before I head out. What do you guys suggest?

Cooling down... I usually wait about 2 min after I park to let the turbo slow down and cool off. What do you guys suggest here too?

I was thinking about getting a turbo timer but I wasn't sure if that would void the warranty. I purchased my car from Frank Toyota in San Diego and also purchased a bumper to bumper warranty with it because it's sitting at 89k miles. I can't remember who the warranty is through, but I was just looking for someone who has had past experiences with this.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Not sure what a turbo timer is but no warranty can be voided nor coverage avoided unless the item causes (or is instrumental in causing) the failure of a covered component. An item intended to protect the turbo from overheating or the oil supply line from being coked doesn't sound like it would qualify.

Last edited by surfcity335i; 09-26-2013 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:20 PM
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:35 PM
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Re: Turbo Timer - Void Warranty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aDallo View Post
I've owned a turbo car before (04 wrx) and I always let it warm up for at least 1 min before I head out. What do you guys suggest?
Unnecessary. Drive off as soon as the instrument cluster self-check lights all go out, by which time the oil is circulating. Drive moderately, as if you were in the break-in period (moderate throttle, no WOT, max 3000-4500rpm) until the oil temperature gauge comes off the peg (165+ deg F).

Quote:
Cooling down... I usually wait about 2 min after I park to let the turbo slow down and cool off. What do you guys suggest here too?
Also unnecessary. If you have been caning it, drive moderately for a mile or two before shutting down. The car has an electric water pump and computer-controlled fan, both of which will continue to run for as long as necessary after shutting off the engine to lower internal temperatures to safe levels.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:37 PM
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I wait a bit, at least until the revs kick down on a cold start in the morning. I won't push the engine much above 3000 rpm until the oil temp moves off the peg, and I'll wait until it's in the 180 range before pushing the engine hard.

On cool down, however, a turbo timer isn't really a big need in the 335. You car has an electric water pump that keeps running and circulating water through the turbo shells to cool them down and prevent oil coking in the bearings. No need for a turbo timer to run the engine to let the turbos cool off as in older turbocharged cars.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:45 PM
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I drive off when it starts. My JB4 locks out the high boost till the oil reaches 160 degrees. Regardless of that I drive under 3K till its warm as a good practice.
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  #7  
Old 09-26-2013, 05:53 PM
aDallo aDallo is offline
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Perfect, it sounds like I am doing everything right. In the morning I never put it past 3500. And since everyone is saying it's okay to turn it off right away, I'll start doing that too. I just didn't want to sit in the car for 2 min just waiting for it to cool off.

Thanks guys!
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  #8  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:02 AM
surfcity335i surfcity335i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post
You car has an electric water pump that keeps running and circulating water through the turbo shells to cool them down and prevent oil coking in the bearings.
I'm still a firm believer in not shutting the car down immediately after spirited driving. Coolant may be circulating, but oil is not. And it's the oil coking in the feed line and turbo that worry me a bit. I've seen too many plugged oil feed lines in my day.
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  #9  
Old 09-27-2013, 11:41 AM
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I agree with everyone above with a minor exception with Surfcity. When I track my car I follow Surfcity's advice and let the engine run a while before shutdown even though I've done a 'cool down' lap. I think his use of the word "spirited" is well noted and not bad advice. However, for the daily driver in normal driving conditions I think extra cool down is not needed.
Back in the early days of turbochargers when durability was a real problem and oil coked up given any opportunity, extra cool down time and turbo-timers were helpful. Then the engineers learned how to make heat resistant bearings and seals, and here's the biggy -they added a coolant passageway system within the turbo shell to keep temp's down. Finally, oil quality took quantum leaps, and with the introduction of synthetics which can handle greater temperatures with ease, oil coking became virtually nonexistent.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aDallo View Post
Perfect, it sounds like I am doing everything right. In the morning I never put it past 3500. And since everyone is saying it's okay to turn it off right away, I'll start doing that too. I just didn't want to sit in the car for 2 min just waiting for it to cool off.

Thanks guys!
I have to laugh a little when I read questions like yours from San Diego. Those of us in New England will experience far more wear just starting our engines once on a zero degree morning than you will in a month of running.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:56 AM
ppopsu01 ppopsu01 is offline
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I had an '87 Volvo 740 turbo which put a rod thru the side of the block due to oil coking. That engine also had water cooled bearings in the turbo. I would not run anything less than synthetic with changes at the 7500 mile interval.
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  #12  
Old 09-27-2013, 01:54 PM
surfcity335i surfcity335i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
I agree with everyone above with a minor exception with Surfcity. When I track my car I follow Surfcity's advice and let the engine run a while before shutdown even though I've done a 'cool down' lap. I think his use of the word "spirited" is well noted and not bad advice. However, for the daily driver in normal driving conditions I think extra cool down is not needed.
Back in the early days of turbochargers when durability was a real problem and oil coked up given any opportunity, extra cool down time and turbo-timers were helpful. Then the engineers learned how to make heat resistant bearings and seals, and here's the biggy -they added a coolant passageway system within the turbo shell to keep temp's down. Finally, oil quality took quantum leaps, and with the introduction of synthetics which can handle greater temperatures with ease, oil coking became virtually nonexistent.
You are right. I was a Mitsubishi technician back in the days of the turbocharged Starion, Tredia and Cordia and we saw failed turbos all the time due to poor warmup and cool down habits. But that was before they started running antifreeze through them and using the quality synthetics of today. Old habits die hard, I guess.
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:04 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by ppopsu01 View Post
I had an '87 Volvo 740 turbo which put a rod thru the side of the block due to oil coking. That engine also had water cooled bearings in the turbo. I would not run anything less than synthetic with changes at the 7500 mile interval.

A piston connecting rod? What's the relationship to oil coking in the turbo?
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aDallo View Post
Picked up a 08 335i last Saturday and I am loving it so far. I was reading the owners guide the other day and saw that it said to jump in the car and go right away without letting the motor warm up first...

Few concerns here:

I've owned a turbo car before (04 wrx) and I always let it warm up for at least 1 min before I head out. What do you guys suggest?

Cooling down... I usually wait about 2 min after I park to let the turbo slow down and cool off. What do you guys suggest here too?

BMW and a few tuners have engineered sweetness and light into this li'l issue! Vehicle programming will not let your turbo over-stress....from limiting power while cold to automatically providing cooling when hot even if you turn off your car and walk away, you're covered.

Isn't it nice when somebody does something right?


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Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 09-27-2013 at 06:26 PM.
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  #15  
Old 09-28-2013, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
A piston connecting rod? What's the relationship to oil coking in the turbo?
You beat me to the question Cal. Swedish car. Turbos. 1980's. Had to be 'sludging' to which he was referring. It was a huge problem back then and resulted in Saab making synthetics mandatory on all their turbocharged engines. Sound familiar? Here we are 30 years later and BMW still has some sludging issues, though not to the same extent. An interesting fact is that 'coking' is a result of high temperatures burning the oil to a crisp, and that 'sludging' is a result of (relatively) cool temperatures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by surfcity335i View Post
You are right. I was a Mitsubishi technician back in the days of the turbocharged Starion, Tredia and Cordia and we saw failed turbos all the time due to poor warmup and cool down habits. But that was before they started running antifreeze through them and using the quality synthetics of today. Old habits die hard, I guess.
Yup, Mitusbishi did a lot of companies a big favor by pioneering turbo development on production performance engines. It cost them tons of warranty money and soured a lot of people on Mitsu's. In the end they got it right but it was too late to save them. Don't know this for sure, but I think they must have made some money licensing patents on the various turbo improvements they invented.
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:16 AM
aDallo aDallo is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
I have to laugh a little when I read questions like yours from San Diego. Those of us in New England will experience far more wear just starting our engines once on a zero degree morning than you will in a month of running.
Hey hey I've seen it reach the low 30s F in the area where I work! =P Yeah it is pretty funny though! But aren't your fluid requirements different as well to compensate for the drastic weather?

Last edited by aDallo; 09-28-2013 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:31 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Hey hey I've seen it reach the low 30s F in the area where I work! =P Yeah it is pretty funny though! But aren't your fluid requirements different as well to compensate for the drastic weather?
We are the one's responsible for the '0' or '10' in the 0W40 or 10W40 oil viscosity requirements. You guys need the '40' part. We all use the same oil now, but some of us use one end of the rating more than the other.
Wow, low 30's? Time to put a long sleeve shirt on eh?
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:56 AM
aDallo aDallo is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
We are the one's responsible for the '0' or '10' in the 0W40 or 10W40 oil viscosity requirements. You guys need the '40' part. We all use the same oil now, but some of us use one end of the rating more than the other.
Wow, low 30's? Time to put a long sleeve shirt on eh?
Someone should make a motor that takes 2 types of oil and switches them out depending on temp. This way you get the best of both worlds: safer cold starts and better lubricated hot motors. At a certain temp, the car stops feeding 1 type and sucks it into a resavouir while starting to feed in the other type. Would be interesting to see how well that works.

I'm originally from the deserts of Iraq =P haha. But have been living in the US since I was 4. I wasn't made for cold weather. At 30* I'm wearing 5 layers. 2 of them are thick jackets.
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Old 09-28-2013, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by aDallo View Post
Someone should make a motor that takes 2 types of oil and switches them out depending on temp. This way you get the best of both worlds: safer cold starts and better lubricated hot motors. At a certain temp, the car stops feeding 1 type and sucks it into a resavouir while starting to feed in the other type. Would be interesting to see how well that works.

I'm originally from the deserts of Iraq =P haha. But have been living in the US since I was 4. I wasn't made for cold weather. At 30* I'm wearing 5 layers. 2 of them are thick jackets.
But don't you see, your desire for two oils has been met already, that's what multi-viscosity oils do. At cold temperatures they flow like a very thin (watery) oil, but at higher temperatures they thicken up (like a heavy syrup). They truly meet your standard for being two 'different' oils with no swapping out needed at all. It's a bit of modern magic through chemistry. If you ask our moderator Nordic Kat nicely, she can explain it all to you (and me*, I don't have the foggiest idea how it's done).
If you ever decide to visit NH I suggest you avoid any month between September and April. You would not be able to fit through doorways.

*For reasons unknown to me my brain goes all mushy on chemistry, and it's unlikely I'm even going to understand Kat's explanation.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 09-28-2013 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
But don't you see, your desire for two oils has been met already, that's what multi-viscosity oils do. At cold temperatures they flow like a very thin (watery) oil, but at higher temperatures they thicken up (like a heavy syrup). They truly meet your standard for being two 'different' oils with no swapping out needed at all. It's a bit of modern magic through chemistry. If you ask our moderator Nordic Kat nicely, she can explain it all to you (and me*, I don't have the foggiest idea how it's done).
If you ever decide to visit NH I suggest you avoid any month between September and April. You would not be able to fit through doorways.

*For reasons unknown to me my brain goes all mushy on chemistry, and it's unlikely I'm even going to understand Kat's explanation.

YO KAT

That's very cool....or hot.....which? 'Splain it to me Kat. I like an oil that adapts - how do they do that?

Actually I now wonder how viscosity does change - suspect gets 'thinner' with heat but the high viscosity/higher weight component provides lubricity needed at high temp; lower weight prevents it from gummin' up and provides lubricity at low temp. To a point! Both directions.


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Old 09-28-2013, 08:45 AM
aDallo aDallo is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
YO KAT

That's very cool....or hot.....which? 'Splain it to me Kat. I like an oil that adapts - how do they do that?

Actually I now wonder how viscosity does change - suspect gets 'thinner' with heat but the high viscosity/higher weight component provides lubricity needed at high temp; lower weight prevents it from gummin' up and provides lubricity at low temp. To a point! Both directions.


Attachment 399261
It's magic! Or from my understanding... A polymer is added to the oils. At cold temps, the polymer shrinks, at warm temps the polymer expands. My girlfriend said it's comparable to a guys pecker.... Shrinks in cold weather and expands in warm weather... She studied some chem in college.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
*For reasons unknown to me my brain goes all mushy on chemistry, and it's unlikely I'm even going to understand Kat's explanation.
Resisting temptation to swing at soft gopher ball across the center of the plate. Resisting .... resisting .....
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by aDallo View Post
It's magic! Or from my understanding... A polymer is added to the oils. At cold temps, the polymer shrinks, at warm temps the polymer expands. My girlfriend said it's comparable to a guys pecker.... Shrinks in cold weather and expands in warm weather... She studied some chem in college.
You're sure it was chemistry she was studying?
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:50 AM
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Resisting temptation to swing at soft gopher ball across the center of the plate. Resisting .... resisting .....
That's ///M-rated's job. The designated hitter never has to do any heavy lifting.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:09 AM
ppopsu01 ppopsu01 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
A piston connecting rod? What's the relationship to oil coking in the turbo?
After a high oil temp shut-down, the oil inside of the turbo would cook and start flaking off and collect down inside the oil pan. Ultimately this led to a clogged oil pump screen and eventually a clogged oil passage to that rod. This was according to a 20 year Volvo tech. That was back in the day when I used a peticular brand of oil which advertised itself as being "turbo tested tough"
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