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E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 09-27-2013, 01:59 AM
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peels'bimmer peels'bimmer is offline
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Quick question about cam/crank sensors

Silly question: If your m52 has been converted to OBDI, and you need a new crank/cam sensor. Does it matter if use a sensor from an OBDI or OBDII? I just need clarification, before I order the parts.
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  #2  
Old 09-27-2013, 08:14 AM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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If you converted your M52 to OBD1... You should know the answer to your query..


Are you using the rear sensor, or the front sensor?

Two different sensors... One a Hall style sensor.. one a VR sensor..

You can run a emulator or try to run a M44 crank sensor in its place...

Or you can get a stock front pulley and timing case-mounted crank position sensor...

It depends on which sensor location you use and the set-up desired.


What seems to be the problem?

options options..

Cheers!
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Last edited by bmw-mania; 09-27-2013 at 08:44 AM.
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  #3  
Old 09-27-2013, 04:48 PM
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Well, I didn't do the conversion, this one was bought, not built. I'm pretty sure I need the OBDI to go along with the conversion. Was just looking for clarification before I bought the wrong part.

The problems I am having are:
Long cranking issues
Engine cut off, while I am driving and wont crank over for hours on end, if I'm lucky.
On cold days, my tach gauges do not move until the car is fully warmed up.

So far I have replaced the fuel pump/sending unit, fuel pump relay and a few hoses that some holes in them.
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  #4  
Old 09-27-2013, 05:39 PM
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You have to match the sensors up with the ECU type. OBD I sensors with OBD I ECU, OBD II sensors with OBD II ECU.
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  #5  
Old 09-28-2013, 12:25 AM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peels'bimmer View Post
Well, I didn't do the conversion, this one was bought, not built. I'm pretty sure I need the OBDI to go along with the conversion. Was just looking for clarification before I bought the wrong part.

The problems I am having are:
Long cranking issues
Engine cut off, while I am driving and wont crank over for hours on end, if I'm lucky.
On cold days, my tach gauges do not move until the car is fully warmed up.

So far I have replaced the fuel pump/sending unit, fuel pump relay and a few hoses that some holes in them.
Thats the problem with buying, and not building..
well I would get intimate with her.. find out everything you can.
search and read about the OBD2 to OBD1 conversion..

The VR sensor is found on OBD1 cars.
The HALL sensor is found on OBD2 cars.

Since yours is CONVERTED..

If you want to use the front OBD1..
You need a stock front pulley from a M50 and timing case-mounted crank position sensor.

If you want to use the rear OBD2..
You can run a M44 crank sensor or run a emulator in its place.
NOTE: if you plan on getting underdrive pulleys, this is your option.

How ever you do it.. You must be CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN when you install..

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
You have to match the sensors up with the ECU type.
OBD I sensors with OBD I ECU, OBD II sensors with OBD II ECU.
not exactly..
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Last edited by bmw-mania; 09-28-2013 at 12:26 AM.
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  #6  
Old 09-28-2013, 06:53 AM
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for those that may not know,....a hall effect sensor is 3 or more wires (depending upon how many signals are being generated) that will send a square wave signal sort of like this:

__|__|__|__

while a vr sensor will be more of a wave up and down, more like this:

/\/\/\/\/\/\




the plugs should be different, though so you could tell by looking at them.





df
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  #7  
Old 09-28-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivinfaster View Post
for those that may not know,....a hall effect sensor is 3 or more wires (depending upon how many signals are being generated) that will send a square wave signal sort of like this:

__|__|__|__

while a vr sensor will be more of a wave up and down, more like this:

/\/\/\/\/\/\




the plugs should be different, though so you could tell by looking at them.





df
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Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post



not exactly..
No, exactly. The interface circuits are different in the OBD 1 DME (coil type pickup) and the OBD II DME (Hall effect sensor). You can make an OBD II sensor work with an OBD I DME if you supply the 12V supply separately, and an OBD II DME may react to the analog coil input from an OBD I sensor but it will be marginal at best and there will be a timing skew due to the slow rise time of the output of the coil type sensor compared to the Hall effect type sensor. If you look at the info DF posted you'll see why.
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Last edited by dc_wright; 09-28-2013 at 07:25 AM.
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  #8  
Old 09-28-2013, 01:24 PM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivinfaster View Post
for those that may not know,....a hall effect sensor is 3 or more wires (depending upon how many signals are being generated) that will send a square wave signal sort of like this:

df
If you were using a oscillillillioscope...

Like I said before.. always a nugget of gold from you, DF.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
No, exactly.
OP's OBD2 engine has been CONVERTED to OBD1.

If the DME is NOT OBD2..
He does not need to use the OBD2 sensor.

We agree..
The DME type (vr/hall OBD1/2) needs the corresponding sensor type. (vr/hall OBD1/2)
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  #9  
Old 09-28-2013, 05:58 PM
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peels'bimmer peels'bimmer is offline
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Thanks for the tips. I'll grab an OBDI sensor.

If I did get under drive pulleys. Why would I want to use an M44 sensor?
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  #10  
Old 09-28-2013, 06:40 PM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peels'bimmer View Post
Thanks for the tips.
I'll grab an OBDI sensor.

If I did get under drive pulleys.
Why would I want to use an M44 sensor?

If you're trolling..
I have a big can of troll repellent... and Im not afraid to fog this b!tch.

PEELS-->
If you get underdrive pulleys... your front mount sensor wont work..
Why?
You wont have a toothed pulley for the front sensor to get a reading from.
SO...
You have to run a emulator..
http://www.seattlecircuit.com/hall_to_vr.html
OR, a M44 sensor in the REAR of the M52 for the sensor to get the CORRECT signal for the engine to operate. (As illustrated by DF, and DC..)
The m44 is a VR sensor and it works in the rear position on the s52.

There.. I just saved you hours of pain and possible head ache.. you buy beer.
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Last edited by bmw-mania; 09-28-2013 at 06:53 PM.
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  #11  
Old 09-28-2013, 07:05 PM
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peels'bimmer peels'bimmer is offline
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lol! What kind of beer you want?!?!

My bad man, I'm still in the learning process when it comes to any sort of sensor problems. Never had to deal with this, with any other e36 I have ever owned.
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