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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #26  
Old 10-04-2013, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Can you elaborate why it's a show or important? I don't understand. From What I gather you're making it sound like they're going to make up some lies.
I think it's interesting some of the dealer techniques for repairing vehicles these days. Whatever they do, it may shed some light on problems others have had, so posting the results here is indeed helpful.
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  #27  
Old 10-04-2013, 08:23 AM
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  #28  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:14 AM
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Can you elaborate why it's a show or important? I don't understand. From What I gather you're making it sound like they're going to make up some lies.

Nothing complicated - like to see what the tech says. Might surprise us!
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  #29  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:24 AM
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Its a good way for people who did not have the problem to learn about it, incase it comes up in the future.
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  #30  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:32 AM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Do a leak test of the intake (smoke/fog) test.

That and checkout all your plastic pcv hoses... Those are prone to cracking (even under the foam).

I bet it's the pcv hoses that are cracked...

A tech told me that the plastic intake is prone to cracking along the seems... And always handle it with extra care...,


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  #31  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:33 AM
Rahulk Rahulk is offline
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

You don't have an n52, so it's not the pcv hoses... Still do a leak (fog/smoke) check... You have some unmetered air entering the cylinders...


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  #32  
Old 10-04-2013, 12:07 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Dealer said they have no leaks on the smoke test and no air leaks whatsoever.

They took it on the highway and got check engine lights.

Cylinder 1,2,4 misfires and he was getting some injector combustion codes. I think he said "no combustion" he wanted to replace all my injectors and coils. That's like $1500 plus labor.

What should I do?


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  #33  
Old 10-04-2013, 12:19 PM
surfcity335i surfcity335i is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Dealer said they have no leaks on the smoke test and no air leaks whatsoever.

They took it on the highway and got check engine lights.

Cylinder 1,2,4 misfires and he was getting some injector combustion codes. I think he said "no combustion" he wanted to replace all my injectors and coils. That's like $1500 plus labor.

What should I do?


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Something's fishy and I still think you'll find the cause to be related to what you did. What is the chance that at the precise moment you cleaned your intake, coils and injectors failed en masse? Zilch.

How's compression? Could some crap have gotten onto the seats of the intake or exhaust valves? Sounds like they're guessing at this point. Maybe next they'll suggest removing the radiator cap and driving a new car under it.
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  #34  
Old 10-04-2013, 12:30 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

The injectors are direct injection... So if you cleaned the valves it should not really effect them, although I've heard the direct injectors have a short life. You can get the coils for $200 for all 6 (Bosch) and the injectors... O-rings and programming should cost much... They might run $90 each and 2 hour to replace all of them... (2 hours to replace 1 too!)

Maybe get an induction cleaning of the injectors... And double check all your connections, I've had the case where the coil connector was maybe 1/8 if an inch unplugged and it caused misfires... (Intermittently)


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  #35  
Old 10-04-2013, 12:33 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulk View Post
The injectors are direct injection... So if you cleaned the valves it should not really effect them, although I've heard the direct injectors have a short life. You can get the coils for $200 for all 6 (Bosch) and the injectors... O-rings and programming should cost much... They might run $90 each and 2 hour to replace all of them... (2 hours to replace 1 too!)

Maybe get an induction cleaning of the injectors... And double check all your connections, I've had the case where the coil connector was maybe 1/8 if an inch unplugged and it caused misfires... (Intermittently)


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Injectors from getbmwparts.com and my dealer are 191 each. They are saying 5 hours labor to replace all coils and injectors.

If there was a crack in the intake manifold or lets say it wasn't on right would the smoke test reveal that? They said that they found no leak.

Also, when i was driving my car it would randomly throw lights, it wasn't doing that all the time.
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  #36  
Old 10-04-2013, 12:43 PM
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Well nothing you worked on aside from pulling all the coils caused injector failure(s). Are you having this done today?
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  #37  
Old 10-04-2013, 12:52 PM
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Well nothing you worked on aside from pulling all the coils caused injector failure(s). Are you having this done today?
Not sure yet. Does pulling spark plugs and ignition coils cause injector failure? Is that what you meant?


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  #38  
Old 10-04-2013, 01:34 PM
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Not sure yet. Does pulling spark plugs and ignition coils cause injector failure? Is that what you meant?


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No, your tasks didn't put you near the injectors. I've heard of coils breaking upon removal, but since they want to replace all of them, they're just shooting blanks here with no real diagnosis, probably going off a TSB of some kind where your symptoms partially match. Which plugs did you use and what was the torque setting?
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  #39  
Old 10-04-2013, 01:39 PM
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No, your tasks didn't put you near the injectors. I've heard of coils breaking upon removal, but since they want to replace all of them, they're just shooting blanks here with no real diagnosis, probably going off a TSB of some kind where your symptoms partially match. Which plugs did you use and what was the torque setting?
I used bmw plugs from the dealer and torqued to 200 inch pounds which is 22nm.

So I have a coil broken maybe? If I had a bad seated gasket on the intake manifold would the smoke test have showed that?

Is it possible that carbon buildup pieces could cause valves to stick or not close fully?


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  #40  
Old 10-04-2013, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
I used bmw plugs from the dealer and torqued to 200 inch pounds which is 22nm.

So I have a coil broken maybe? If I had a bad seated gasket on the intake manifold would the smoke test have showed that?

Is it possible that carbon buildup pieces could cause valves to stick or not close fully?


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I think the dealer, upon seeing the misfires, is assuming coils and injectors by default. A bad gasket would show up, sure, and maybe some crud, but the engine probably wouldn't run very well outside of boost, let alone under boost. If those misfires were wandering cylinders, I wouldn't think it's ALL of the coils. If it were just one, then I'd swap them around to find the bad one.
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  #41  
Old 10-04-2013, 01:59 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Quote:
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I think the dealer, upon seeing the misfires, is assuming coils and injectors by default. A bad gasket would show up, sure, and maybe some crud, but the engine probably wouldn't run very well outside of boost, let alone under boost. If those misfires were wandering cylinders, I wouldn't think it's ALL of the coils. If it were just one, then I'd swap them around to find the bad one.
The car does bog here and there randomly at idle but it's only a few times. When entering boost is where the problem lies. It just bogs and sputters when going WOT.


EDIT: I ran techron injector cleaner about 200 miles prior to the issue. However nothing happened until the reinstall of the intake manifold.
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  #42  
Old 10-04-2013, 02:07 PM
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The car does bog here and there randomly at idle but it's only a few times. When entering boost is where the problem lies. It just bogs and sputters when going WOT.


EDIT: I ran techron injector cleaner about 200 miles prior to the issue. However nothing happened until the reinstall of the intake manifold.
Sounds like the dealer techs should focus on the intake and not throw out $1500 for a "maybe".
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  #43  
Old 10-04-2013, 02:20 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

I agree. Would a leak down test be beneficial?

I just told them to swap the coil from the cylinder 1,3 that were misfiring over to cylinder 5,6 to see if it follows.

They said the misfire was on 1,3,4 which happens to be one bank for the fuel injectors.


EDIT: if I replace the injectors myself i save on the labor. They said I can order the injectors and put them in myself on the lot and they will code them.

If I opt out of the coding I heard the ecu will learn the curve themselves is this true?
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  #44  
Old 10-04-2013, 03:16 PM
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I agree. Would a leak down test be beneficial?

I just told them to swap the coil from the cylinder 1,3 that were misfiring over to cylinder 5,6 to see if it follows.

They said the misfire was on 1,3,4 which happens to be one bank for the fuel injectors.


EDIT: if I replace the injectors myself i save on the labor. They said I can order the injectors and put them in myself on the lot and they will code them.

If I opt out of the coding I heard the ecu will learn the curve themselves is this true?
I've personally never had to replace a fuel injector on my BMWs, but coding sounds like the right thing to have them or someone with the right tools, perform. It seems strange or a wild coincidence that these fail right after performing the work, like electrics were damaged somehow. Since I'm not familiar with plugs on the N5x series, what has to be disconnected while doing plugs and removing the intake? I know the coil plugs can be difficult, but most other electrics should be well protected.
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  #45  
Old 10-04-2013, 03:51 PM
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I've personally never had to replace a fuel injector on my BMWs, but coding sounds like the right thing to have them or someone with the right tools, perform. It seems strange or a wild coincidence that these fail right after performing the work, like electrics were damaged somehow. Since I'm not familiar with plugs on the N5x series, what has to be disconnected while doing plugs and removing the intake? I know the coil plugs can be difficult, but most other electrics should be well protected.
I'm not sure other than engine covers. I remember using a wreck to turn the crank pulley and by accident later that night I crank the engine while doing a gas pedal reset. It turned and knocked the wrench against the rad hose. I heard it sounded like a grind like a missed shift grind or when you start the car and its already started.

I assume this is because the wrench stopped the car from turning yet the starter was trying to and that maybe caused the teeth to grind.

It was short and minor and no damage but it scared me.
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  #46  
Old 10-04-2013, 04:35 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

*UPDATE*

I just installed all the new plugs and ignition coils.

I took it for a test drive and its still sputters and stumbles on idle once in a while.

If I mash the gas it sputters but it has a bit more go now. Not much better tho.

It was driving fine for a few minutes and then it started misfiring again. Now the idle is slightly rough.

The trans is shifting slightly rough also.
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  #47  
Old 10-04-2013, 06:45 PM
Rahulk Rahulk is offline
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

You didn't bend any valves when you were cleaning them did you? Sounds like you possibly could have bent a valve. But those valves/stems are sturdy... You'd really have to work it to bend it...


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  #48  
Old 10-04-2013, 07:00 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

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You didn't bend any valves when you were cleaning them did you? Sounds like you possibly could have bent a valve. But those valves/stems are sturdy... You'd really have to work it to bend it...


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How could a valve bend while use a brush?

I don't see how that could happen. What about what I had said above about cranking the car while the wrench on the crank bolt?

I am thinking about a leak down on Monday.

Also what about the fact that my car needs a computer update? Could that be an issue?
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  #49  
Old 10-04-2013, 08:47 PM
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I think the dealer, upon seeing the misfires, is assuming coils and injectors by default. A bad gasket would show up, sure, and maybe some crud, but the engine probably wouldn't run very well outside of boost, let alone under boost. If those misfires were wandering cylinders, I wouldn't think it's ALL of the coils. If it were just one, then I'd swap them around to find the bad one.

On a personal note, all things being equal, I HATE THAT!



OK let's get real....dealer's lookin' for a pot o'gold; you don't want to drop that load.

So don't. Instead, ask him to back up his recommendation with evidence - how was the diagnosis performed [details!] and what were the results ID'g the bad parts? You might see a deer in the headlights at that point.

Whatever dealer says, what we're trying to do is get what you've so far paid for - a real diagnosis not BS. In light of their first response, squeeze 'em and leave 'em.

Now comes a time for thought....what did you do? Inspect all parts removed for the valve cleaning job....yup, all of them. No defects? Are you sure? Clean your parts to prevent voltage from finding paths not intended and reassemble the BMW way this time....careful assembly with strict attention to torque and torque plus angle as spec'd. Naturally you'll use the proper plug socket and you won't apply anti-seize to plug threads. Again, cleanliness is next to Godliness.

So far so good. Now. Has anyone looked at the turbos?

We'll break for info here....


.

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Old 10-04-2013, 09:08 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

They said they tested the turbo and it was good.

I have the 14mm thin walled 12 point socket. Torqued plugs to 200 inch pounds(23nm)

I also torqued the intake manifold bolts to 120 inch pounds(11 ft pounds). These are what is recommended as spec.

What do you mean by angle?

I checked everything and the 2 things that worry me are the timing may have slipped as in the teeth. Also boost leak but they said they smoke tested.

How do I see the results of this?
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