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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #51  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
They said they tested the turbo and it was good.

I have the 14mm thin walled 12 point socket. Torqued plugs to 200 inch pounds(23nm)

I also torqued the intake manifold bolts to 120 inch pounds(11 ft pounds). These are what is recommended as spec.

What do you mean by angle?

I checked everything and the 2 things that worry me are the timing may have slipped as in the teeth. Also boost leak but they said they smoke tested.

How do I see the results of this?

That's it? That's what they said? It's "GOOD???"

Call 'em on that one - a useless response. How exactly did they test - what equipment was used. Documented results. Remember, talk's cheap....so cheap it's worth nothing at all!

And where's the code readout from their GT1?????

Valve timing slipping a tooth very unlikely. VANOS issue far more likely. Those were intake valves you were cleaning, right? Below, 1st video mentions AC Ripple, a very interesting warning - enjoy!






In spite of everything, could still be what BMW said, but can't bring myself to believe in coincidence:



Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 10-04-2013 at 09:32 PM.
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  #52  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:31 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

I am going to ask for what you said, and also what equipment they use. Anything else I should ask for?

Should I have the vanos cleaned?

Many times I thought about ordering a intake manifold stud and nut set and replacing thinking there was a leak, dealer said there wasn't.

How can I be certain about them, as far as proof? It's bmw of Bloomfield NJ.

Yes it was the intake valves. Vanos seems to be like vtec, ecotec, and VVTLI from other manufacturers. I was hearing a slight and I mean almost unnoticeable tick around 1600 rpms before the car started running like crap. It was probably nothing but figured I would mention it.

I wonder how a vanos sensor is actually tested? I want to be prepared so when I tell the dealer I want it done I will know if they are lying.


The dealer that I bought the car from said they will take a look at it and they may repair for free since I just bought the car from them and they warranty for 30 days and its been 14. I don't think they will give a loaner tho and am unsure of their skills?



EDIT: when I bought the car the oil was black and looked bad, It had been 20k since a oil change. I in turn used mobil 1 0w40. Could this be an issue or maybe bad gas? Also I just wanted to know. I removed the harness from the DME on the intake in order to remove the manifold it has to be unplugged. My battery was still connected and my FOBB was in the passenger seat. I am not sure if this means anything either. I also sprayed carb cleaner into that small port on the driver side that the hose goes between the manifold, up to the valve cover, if you are looking at the manifold from the driver size, its right behind and below the alternator. Its like a evap line or something.
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Last edited by WhiteFury; 10-05-2013 at 12:59 AM.
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  #53  
Old 10-04-2013, 11:50 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Here are some pictures of the old plugs when they came out and of everything apart. Maybe there is something you guys might see that I didn't.

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  #54  
Old 10-04-2013, 11:52 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

The intake port before and after.

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  #55  
Old 10-05-2013, 01:14 AM
ctuna ctuna is offline
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You need a code reader for BMW as a next step.

You need a code reader for BMW as a next step.
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  #56  
Old 10-05-2013, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
I also torqued the intake manifold bolts to 120 inch pounds(11 ft pounds). These are what is recommended as spec.

What do you mean by angle?

Angle past torque actually means that - torque to spec, then turn the nut/bolt an add'l number of degrees, spec'd. At the rear, for instance, couple o'control arm bolts on the bearing carrier are torque + 90

You've bought a precision machine 70% off list - there's a reason for that - and not from a dealer. They bought it, prob at auction, for 25% less than the selling price, ~$4250 profit, then subtract sales commission and expenses. They've only a few thousand to play with - unlikely they'll invest re: in-depth analysis and repair. More likely they'll kludge to get it [temporarily] reasonably good and flog it back until warranty runs out, very soon now. Used car dealers have been offering 30 day warranties since my father sold 'em as a teenager back in the Depression.

Dude! You're on your own - get the Bentley manual & tools. Find someone with a lift if you don't want to put it up on jack stands. Jack stands are an interesting exercise the first time, maybe twice....then, a PITA and that lift is, suddenly, inexpensive....
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  #57  
Old 10-05-2013, 06:34 AM
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Modern oil turns black very quickly it is not a sign its used up.
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  #58  
Old 10-05-2013, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Here are some pictures of the old plugs when they came out and of everything apart. Maybe there is something you guys might see that I didn't.

Looks pretty good - see no grime/leaks, good job.

THIS is essential to the shadetree - highly recommended.

So's the electronic torque wrench I liked above.

And the Bentley manual. Supplement w/rich amount of info available on the Net - you'll be joining N54TECH and E90POST, right?

Obviously, Youtube's valuable. Good to see another man entering the world of DIY BMW Maintenance - better to spend money on resources you'll keep than pay the dealer. Indy's can be excellent, better than dealers, when you don't want to take the time....recommend a specialist in BMW's.

The good thing about a 3 is that they sold so many of them and the customer base is mech inclined. Suits me right down t'the ground!
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  #59  
Old 10-05-2013, 07:01 AM
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Should I have the vanos cleaned?

Yes, but you should do it....cost pleasingly low and ya learn a few things!

Procedure's in VANOS link above. Hmmmmmm....you had the valve cover off....
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  #60  
Old 10-05-2013, 07:28 AM
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.

A thought: While you were into it, could you've whacked THIS? BT Cable's good juju - greatly assists trouble shootin'.
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  #61  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:28 AM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

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Last edited by WhiteFury; 10-05-2013 at 08:31 AM.
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  #62  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:29 AM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Yes, but you should do it....cost pleasingly low and ya learn a few things!

Procedure's in VANOS link above. Hmmmmmm....you had the valve cover off....
Thanks for all your help. I greatly appreciate it! I never took off valve cover

Edit: can I clean vanos with carb cleaner?
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  #63  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:37 AM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
.

A thought: While you were into it, could you've whacked THIS? BT Cable's good juju - greatly assists trouble shootin'.
Thanks and good find! This is a start. It's things like this is what I'm missing.

I don't think for the fact of it being under the starter I would have hit it. Would it throw a specific code? According to the dealer it's basically random combustion misfires.

I'm really thinking on replacing all the intake manifold studs and nuts so I can stuff it down more.
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  #64  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:42 AM
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Two of the plugs 2/6 left to right have discolored insulators. Were you missing on two cylinders?
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  #65  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Two of the plugs 2/6 left to right have discolored insulators. Were you missing on two cylinders?
Before I cleaned the valves and changed plugs I had no issues that I know of.
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  #66  
Old 10-05-2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Before I cleaned the valves and changed plugs I had no issues that I know of.
I read three pages to see why you had done the valve blasting and here is my answer in your last post!

You messed something up when you did the job. You haven't found it and BMW hasn't found it but you did. Let's see if we can figure it out. First you need to do a compression test of all 6 cylinders. Just do it. Without that information there will always be suspicions.
Then when it's all back together get a can of propane and a torch, like those hand held ones plumbers use. DON'T light it! Turn on the gas while your engine is running and open the valve on the gas cylinder wide open. Run the propane all along every single part of your intake system, especially the manifold. If the rpm's change at all you have a intake manifold leak.
My money is on the leak. And as others have said, next time don't even think about torquing down a plastic manifold without a new gasket and a torque wrench. And torque in two steps through the proper sequence.
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  #67  
Old 10-05-2013, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Two of the plugs 2/6 left to right have discolored insulators. Were you missing on two cylinders?
Noticed that myself, as well as what I would consider excess carbon on all plugs. That may be due to his intake valve fouling issue which he's fixed.

I think the OP should also switch the coils again and see if any of the misfires follow the coils.

Did he get a P0300? I forget. If so the misfire could still be confined to just a couple cylinders. The algorithm the computer uses to define and set a P0300 is flakey, sometimes it is truly random and sometimes it isn't really. P0300's can be very misleading and I have seen them set with only two bad holes.

As I said in my post above, I'm guessing it's a lean miss. I'd love to see the Short Term Fuel Trim values when the codes set. I'd bet they're maxing out enrichen because the AF ratio sensors are screaming lean and the injectors can't keep up.
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  #68  
Old 10-05-2013, 12:35 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Noticed that myself, as well as what I would consider excess carbon on all plugs. That may be due to his intake valve fouling issue which he's fixed.

I think the OP should also switch the coils again and see if any of the misfires follow the coils.

Did he get a P0300? I forget. If so the misfire could still be confined to just a couple cylinders. The algorithm the computer uses to define and set a P0300 is flakey, sometimes it is truly random and sometimes it isn't really. P0300's can be very misleading and I have seen them set with only two bad holes.

As I said in my post above, I'm guessing it's a lean miss. I'd love to see the Short Term Fuel Trim values when the codes set. I'd bet they're maxing out enrichen because the AF ratio sensors are screaming lean and the injectors can't keep up.
Thanks for the help! I am going to assume you basically mean in have injectors that are bad?
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:07 PM
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It means the injectors can't keep up with the excess air bleeding in which are leaning out the mixture. The injectors will only flow so much fuel. If the ECU sees a lean condition it tries to pump in more fuel to enrich the mixture. With additional air coming in from a leak the injectors can't keep up even though they may actually be OK.
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  #70  
Old 10-05-2013, 01:46 PM
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It means the injectors can't keep up with the excess air bleeding in which are leaning out the mixture. The injectors will only flow so much fuel. If the ECU sees a lean condition it tries to pump in more fuel to enrich the mixture. With additional air coming in from a leak the injectors can't keep up even though they may actually be OK.
So your pretty Confident I have an air leak somewhere?
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  #71  
Old 10-05-2013, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Then when it's all back together get a can of propane and a torch, like those hand held ones plumbers use. DON'T light it! Turn on the gas while your engine is running and open the valve on the gas cylinder wide open. Run the propane all along every single part of your intake system, especially the manifold. If the rpm's change at all you have a intake manifold leak.
Man, the things I sometimes learn here! I find this diagnostic test to be so interesting.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:03 PM
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Man, the things I sometimes learn here! I find this diagnostic test to be so interesting.
I'm going to do the propane test! I just realized this.

DSX, if I do your propane test recommend even if I have a very small leak or a leak on the intercooler piping, will it still change rpms and react?

I assume if its a vacuum leak at idle it becomes a boost leak at WOT?
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  #73  
Old 10-05-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
I read three pages to see why you had done the valve blasting and here is my answer in your last post!

You messed something up when you did the job. You haven't found it and BMW hasn't found it but you did. Let's see if we can figure it out. First you need to do a compression test of all 6 cylinders. Just do it. Without that information there will always be suspicions.
Then when it's all back together get a can of propane and a torch, like those hand held ones plumbers use. DON'T light it! Turn on the gas while your engine is running and open the valve on the gas cylinder wide open. Run the propane all along every single part of your intake system, especially the manifold. If the rpm's change at all you have a intake manifold leak.
My money is on the leak. And as others have said, next time don't even think about torquing down a plastic manifold without a new gasket and a torque wrench. And torque in two steps through the proper sequence.

The things that experience brings....wouldn't find a dealer doing this.

Reminder: Do not smoke during this procedure.

Seemed like a leak, but he's been over it. Maybe....can't hurt to clean the VANOS solenoids - OP use compressed air - or check the crankshaft sensor in case a wire was accidentally tugged.

WhiteFury as you finding this educational? What have you tried today?
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:20 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
The things that experience brings....wouldn't find a dealer doing this.

Reminder: Do not smoke during this procedure.

Seemed like a leak, but he's been over it. Maybe....can't hurt to clean the VANOS solenoids - OP use compressed air - or check the crankshaft sensor in case a wire was accidentally tugged.

WhiteFury as you finding this educational? What have you tried today?
Wouldn't a tugged wire or bad crank sensor throw a code?

As far as the vanos are they the same location as a n54 engine? Cause that's the example video but I have a n55. I don't have compressed air what else can I use? Don't have a air compressor anymore.

Car is at the dealer. I didn't sign anything so I am going to tell them I want proof of what they did. It's sick that they can't find anything definite. If they don't find it Monday I am going to raise hell and being the car back.

I can't do much til Monday.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Wouldn't a tugged wire or bad crank sensor throw a code?

As far as the vanos are they the same location as a n54 engine? Cause that's the example video but I have a n55. I don't have compressed air what else can I use? Don't have a air compressor anymore.

Car is at the dealer.

Yes it would - dealer sees all - an upside of taking it there. Of course, you can too with the right cable + software, in fact you can purchase a GT1 but I like BT.

There I go again - didn't notice you had a N55. The VANOS solenoids were redesigned for N55 to include a screen filter. Actually here's the reference pub I found that in. And, a warning.

Google....so useful....


.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 10-05-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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