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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #101  
Old 10-07-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
No codes for the pump. Dealer said the pump would cause long starts and bad idle.
So will bad injectors & or carbon, but you already cleared the carbon.
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  #102  
Old 10-07-2013, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Codes on first photo.

That's IT? Nothing else found?

Did they scope the ignition circuit? Or other systems?





Picoscope BTW is a Brit company making PC based USB interfaced O-scopes. They have a good rep, and make an automotive model/kit. I actually use a Picoscope, but not the automotive version. Pleasingly portable.


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Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 10-07-2013 at 06:16 PM.
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  #103  
Old 10-07-2013, 04:00 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

They didn't scope Anything else, I can't afford to have the car sitting in diagnostics $145 an hour if they were scope everything I have a two or $3000 bill and probably still have the issue.

I'm going to go home and move cylinder number ones fuel injector to cylinder number three if It throws a code for cylinder number three that I know it's the injectors however if it doesn't then I will Put all the brand-new intake had studs on that I bought with all new washers and nuts and retort to spec and also will do the propane test.

Edit: The idle bogs when I'm in drive and my foot on the break at a dead stop, however if I leave it in park or neutral with my foot on the break it doesn't bog nearly as much I wonder why this is?
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Last edited by WhiteFury; 10-07-2013 at 04:03 PM.
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  #104  
Old 10-07-2013, 04:29 PM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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because the engine is not under load at Idle, once you start driving HP and torque are required to move the cars mass, so lots of electronics and mechanical things start kicking in, makes you wonder if you can ever figure out what you did, and it could have been what you did that caused the issue or it just could have been a fluke that the issue started at the same time you touched the car

food for thought
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  #105  
Old 10-07-2013, 04:34 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
because the engine is not under load at Idle, once you start driving HP and torque are required to move the cars mass, so lots of electronics and mechanical things start kicking in, makes you wonder if you can ever figure out what you did, and it could have been what you did that caused the issue or it just could have been a fluke that the issue started at the same time you touched the car

food for thought
I completely agree. That's why I am going over everything tonight.
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  #106  
Old 10-07-2013, 05:42 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

So what you ruled out

No vacuum leak
No spark plug issue or coil issue (all new)
Not the fuel pump
Not a valve issue

Individual fuel injectors - possibly until they are switched around.

When fuel injectors are deactivated it means that unburned fuel is being dumped into the exhaust.... Which means the injectors are working in theory....

I don't think it possible to cross wire coils, the connectors don't reach...

So I would do a spark test... Park the car in the garage remove the coil and plug and start the car in the dark... (1 coil at a time removed) and you should see sparks... (It's easier when you have a spare spark plug sitting around..)

Also check your grounds for the spark plugs! Cylinders 1&2 share the same ground... If the ground bolt is corroded or soaked in oil it probably won't work

But it runs fine at idle.

My personal opinion is a lever arm for one of the valves got knocked off... That would cause misfires... It did for me.

Try this.... Unplug the valvetronic solenoid (big cylinder on valve cover) and then run it.... If it runs fine ( with just an error code of the valvetronic removed you know you have a valve issue....

Then you can rule out the ignition system....


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  #107  
Old 10-07-2013, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulk View Post
So what you ruled out

No vacuum leak
No spark plug issue or coil issue (all new)
Not the fuel pump
Not a valve issue

Individual fuel injectors - possibly until they are switched around.

When fuel injectors are deactivated it means that unburned fuel is being dumped into the exhaust.... Which means the injectors are working in theory....

I don't think it possible to cross wire coils, the connectors don't reach...

So I would do a spark test... Park the car in the garage remove the coil and plug and start the car in the dark... (1 coil at a time removed) and you should see sparks... (It's easier when you have a spare spark plug sitting around..)

Also check your grounds for the spark plugs! Cylinders 1&2 share the same ground... If the ground bolt is corroded or soaked in oil it probably won't work

But it runs fine at idle.

My personal opinion is a lever arm for one of the valves got knocked off... That would cause misfires... It did for me.

Try this.... Unplug the valvetronic solenoid (big cylinder on valve cover) and then run it.... If it runs fine ( with just an error code of the valvetronic removed you know you have a valve issue....

Then you can rule out the ignition system....


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What is the lever that your talking about?
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  #108  
Old 10-07-2013, 06:14 PM
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I would do a spark test... Park the car in the garage remove the coil and plug and start the car in the dark... (1 coil at a time removed) and you should see sparks... (It's easier when you have a spare spark plug sitting around..)

Also check your grounds for the spark plugs! Cylinders 1&2 share the same ground... If the ground bolt is corroded or soaked in oil it probably won't work

Get some advice on this - you could toast a computer.

At minimum, ground the removed plugs.
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  #109  
Old 10-07-2013, 06:18 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Here is injector number one.

Is that black ring the seal? Good thing I bought seals!

Does it look shot?

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  #110  
Old 10-07-2013, 06:26 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Is this the valvetronic sensor you were talking about?

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  #111  
Old 10-07-2013, 07:11 PM
Rahulk Rahulk is offline
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

That's the ecentric shaft sensor...


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  #112  
Old 10-07-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
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That's the ecentric shaft sensor...


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So where is this valvetronic sensor?
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  #113  
Old 10-07-2013, 07:12 PM
Rahulk Rahulk is offline
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

If you have inpa... You could do a test program that fires the injectors... That be the perfect test for them...

But those are high pressure injectors... Completely different beast... I'm not sure about them..


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  #114  
Old 10-07-2013, 07:13 PM
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Is this it? If So how do I get it off?

If your opinion is right and it is the shaft on the valve that got knocked off how do I put it back on, and what is it?

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  #115  
Old 10-07-2013, 07:33 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Okay so I've been getting misfires in cylinder 1, & 2. Very seldomly I would get a misfiring cylinder 5.

I just swapped cylinder 1 & 3 injectors.

While doing the swap I cleaned them out nicely.

I just Took the car out first been and its still sputtering of course, but this time I'm getting a misfire in cylinder 5 only!

I cleared the codes and started over again and once again only cylinder 5!

Does this mean injectors were just dirty I don't get it?
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Last edited by WhiteFury; 10-07-2013 at 07:35 PM.
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  #116  
Old 10-07-2013, 07:33 PM
Rahulk Rahulk is offline
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

So you actually do not have valvetronic in that engine... (N54).

If it was a fuel injector, it would throw a fuel injector code. So you can rule that out

So basically whn you did you job...

You removed

Intake
Spark plugs
Coils

And reinstalled everything and are having issues...

Check your battery voltage... That could be another causal....

But I think you can rule out

Valves
Cylinder head components
Vacuum leaks

You have the special thin wall spark plug socket right? The spark plugs should be a weird 12 point plug...

Make sure you reinstall the injectors correctly,

Ruled out the coils
Spark plugs (new)

There isn't any obstruction in the intake, is there?

Even if a little carbon got into the cylinders they Be blown out...

Check the contact of all the electrical components.... Disconnect the battery over night too... Clears the computer

I'm sure it's something trivial... I bet the dealer knows what it is, but that's why they were trying to see you new coils/injectors... That's how they make money... Imagine if the issue was still there after all that work... They would have to eat that Cost!



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  #117  
Old 10-07-2013, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulk View Post
So you actually do not have valvetronic in that engine... (N54).

If it was a fuel injector, it would throw a fuel injector code. So you can rule that out

So basically whn you did you job...

You removed

Intake
Spark plugs
Coils

And reinstalled everything and are having issues...

Check your battery voltage... That could be another causal....

But I think you can rule out

Valves
Cylinder head components
Vacuum leaks

You have the special thin wall spark plug socket right? The spark plugs should be a weird 12 point plug...

Make sure you reinstall the injectors correctly,

Ruled out the coils
Spark plugs (new)

There isn't any obstruction in the intake, is there?

Even if a little carbon got into the cylinders they Be blown out...

Check the contact of all the electrical components.... Disconnect the battery over night too... Clears the computer

I'm sure it's something trivial... I bet the dealer knows what it is, but that's why they were trying to see you new coils/injectors... That's how they make money... Imagine if the issue was still there after all that work... They would have to eat that Cost!



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I just posted above. New findings!

Also, that means I don't have that "arm" that came off you were talking about right?

I left the battery off overnight the first day the problem started.

I got a injector code at the dealer "injector deactivation"
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Last edited by WhiteFury; 10-07-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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  #118  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:11 PM
Rahulk Rahulk is offline
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Check the voltage of the battery in the am... I'm pointing towards electrical...

You have the n55... It does have valvetronic, but it is rare for that to go...

The car was newly bought, so the battery could be beat.

The misfire appears to be jumping around.... Which kinda points to electrical.

If it was a valve/ lever issue, it would not move...

You could have some bad fuel too... But that's really rare... Maybe add a bottle of octane booster to the tank....

Turbos love high octane....

If it said injector deactivated that means unburned fuel was entering the exhaust... There is a surplus of air (turbo sucks tons of air in) the only thing I can think of is an electrical issue...
Weak sparkClick image for larger version

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You have 12 point spark plugs right... See picture.


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  #119  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulk View Post
Check the voltage of the battery in the am... I'm pointing towards electrical...

You have the n55... It does have valvetronic, but it is rare for that to go...

The car was newly bought, so the battery could be beat.

The misfire appears to be jumping around.... Which kinda points to electrical.

If it was a valve/ lever issue, it would not move...

You could have some bad fuel too... But that's really rare... Maybe add a bottle of octane booster to the tank....

Turbos love high octane....

If it said injector deactivated that means unburned fuel was entering the exhaust... There is a surplus of air (turbo sucks tons of air in) the only thing I can think of is an electrical issue...
Weak sparkAttachment 400980

You have 12 point spark plugs right... See picture.


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Yes I have those plugs and removed them and checked. They are almost brand new and so is the coils.

I am going to clean injectors 5,6 and swap them to see if the code follows.

I already eliminated 1,2 from throwing a code it seems.

Car starts on a dime. Seems like the battery is good.

So injector deactivated means not enough spark?

Is it ok to leave the injectors swapped?


Also the coil on #1 has white stuff in the boot where it touches spark plug.
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Last edited by WhiteFury; 10-07-2013 at 08:28 PM.
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  #120  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:28 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Update**

Cylinder 1 & 2 leak Down test results are as follows.

Cylinder 1 - 3.7% loss

Cylinder 2 - 3.9% loss

Dealer said factory specs are less than 8%.

For the first time I just got a misfire on Cylinder #5

1,2,5 injector deactivation and misfires with random misfires.

Going to swap cylinder 1-3 fuel injectors to see if the code follows since I never get #3 misfires.

If it doesn't follow now what? Could it be a vacuum leak still or a DME?

What about fuel filter?

Dealer says fuel pump would throw codes or all cylinders.
"1,2,5 injector deactivation and misfires with random misfires."
What??? What do you mean "injector deactivation"? Where did that term come from? Is that from the dealer? That is critical information and you kinda just glossed over it...
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  #121  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
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"1,2,5 injector deactivation and misfires with random misfires."
What??? What do you mean "injector deactivation"? Where did that term come from? Is that from the dealer? That is critical information and you kinda just glossed over it...
Yes from the dealer. Read posts above, he thinks it means its not sparking and excess fuel is getting into the exhaust unburnt.
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  #122  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteFury View Post
Yes from the dealer. Read posts above, he thinks it means its not sparking and excess fuel is getting into the exhaust unburnt.
Bingo. You've got a very smart computer controlling the engine. When it detects unburnt fuel passing the air/fuel ratio sensors it is able to figure out the 'bad' cylinders and shut off the injectors in those cylinders. This prevents your cats from burning up that fuel and going Chernobyl on you.

So, several pages ago when we were picking up on a couple fouled plugs we were on the right track. Apparently something is causing a misfire.

Save me from going back and trying to sort out where we are. Did you swap injectors and did the problem follow the injectors? Did you swap plugs and blah blah blah? If you did both and the problem stayed put, then I'm keeping my money on a vacuum leak, and I'm doubling down.
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  #123  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:45 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulk View Post
(snip)

You have 12 point spark plugs right... See picture.

LOL, you ever try to put non-12 point plugs in? Not gonna go.
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  #124  
Old 10-07-2013, 09:01 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Swapped injectors from cylinder 1 & 3.

It threw a code "misfire" cylinder #5.

Cleared code and did it again.

Same thing. "Misfire" cylinder #5.

So something happened and cylinder 1 & 2 didn't misfire.

I just swap injectors between cylinder 5 & 6.

I want to see what happens between cylinders five and six now.
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  #125  
Old 10-07-2013, 09:08 PM
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Misfiring after Intake Port Cleaning!

Update.**

Swapped injector 5&6. Still throwing code for cylinder 5!

So it didn't move this time. Last time the code didn't move. Cylinder 1&2 just stopped misfiring.

What's your thoughts now. Vacuum leak?
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