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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #1  
Old 10-09-2013, 05:47 AM
KB2008 KB2008 is offline
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2012 535i M Sport (BuyBack/Lemon)

Hi All,

Wanted to get your thoughts on a Carbon Black 535 I came across online...talked to the dealership and they claim the car was bought back "to promote customer satisfaction. The previous owner complained that the car would not turn on after the car shut down from the auto stop start feature"

Assuming the issue was fixed by BMW, is this something worth pursuing or should I stay away from all manufacturer buybacks? They have it priced at close to 48K with 12,500 miles. I'm sure I can get them to come down a bit. The carfax has it titled as a buyback/lemon. My inititial thought is not to get the car since its classified as a lemon and could be difficult to get rid of in the future, but was curious if anyone else has had any experiences with a buyback.

I attached the carfax and link to the car. Any input would be appreciated.

http://www.iqautos.com/vehicle-detai...-ga-id-5394833

Thanks!
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File Type: pdf carfax.pdf (2.96 MB, 59 views)
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2013, 05:55 AM
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hufington hufington is offline
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I'd stay away, as you can already get great deals on similar cars w/o the mentioned issue.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2013, 05:57 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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If the car was title as a lemon, they were require by law to buy it back. If they wanted to promote customer satisfaction, BMW would have volunteer to replace the car before the lemon law kicked in. If you plan to drive this car to the ground and have the start stop feature turn off, this car might be worth looking at. It is probably worth mid $60K when new, considering the age and the lemon title, I would think the dealer has to knock off another $10K to make it worth while.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:24 AM
mness mness is offline
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2012 535i M Sport (BuyBack/Lemon)

Will they give you the actual printout of the service/repair history so you can see what the true complaint and attempted repairs were?

Would original warrantee still apply?




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  #5  
Old 10-09-2013, 06:43 AM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
If the car was title as a lemon, they were require by law to buy it back. If they wanted to promote customer satisfaction, BMW would have volunteer to replace the car before the lemon law kicked in. If you plan to drive this car to the ground and have the start stop feature turn off, this car might be worth looking at. It is probably worth mid $60K when new, considering the age and the lemon title, I would think the dealer has to knock off another $10K to make it worth while.
This......
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2013, 06:45 AM
KB2008 KB2008 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
If the car was title as a lemon, they were require by law to buy it back. If they wanted to promote customer satisfaction, BMW would have volunteer to replace the car before the lemon law kicked in. If you plan to drive this car to the ground and have the start stop feature turn off, this car might be worth looking at. It is probably worth mid $60K when new, considering the age and the lemon title, I would think the dealer has to knock off another $10K to make it worth while.
My thoughts exactly...I'd be willing to pay 40K but not 48K since the latter is still similar to what others without the buyback issue may be going for.
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2013, 06:48 AM
KB2008 KB2008 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mness View Post
Will they give you the actual printout of the service/repair history so you can see what the true complaint and attempted repairs were?

Would original warrantee still apply?

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Well the guy I spoke with at the dealership said I could get the information verified through any BMW dealership...I'd still have the balance of the factory warranty.
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2013, 06:51 AM
KB2008 KB2008 is offline
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So what I'm getting so far is that I should go to the dealership and offer 40K out the door and see what happens lol?
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2013, 07:04 AM
Pringle Pringle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB2008 View Post
Well the guy I spoke with at the dealership said I could get the information verified through any BMW dealership...I'd still have the balance of the factory warranty.
I would insist on the service history. I also bet he is hoping that you don't follow up on it. If I was selling the car and someone asked, and it was clean, I would get it to them immediately!
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2013, 07:14 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB2008 View Post
So what I'm getting so far is that I should go to the dealership and offer 40K out the door and see what happens lol?
Make sure you get the car check out by a BMW mechanic other than the mechinics at that dealership.
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  #11  
Old 10-09-2013, 07:18 AM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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If you did move forward on this I would want them to show me in person when they hook the car up to the diagnostic computer that there is no fault codes being stored in the car. This is a good indication if the car has any issues at the moment. I wouldn't tell them about this request up front but rather have them do it on the spot right in front of me.

Alan
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2013, 07:21 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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Ummm... $48,000 for a Lemon.
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2013, 07:31 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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This car is for sale by a small, independent used car dealer, not an Authorized BMW Center. I wouldn't touch with a 100' pole. Since it's a 2012 that means the M Sport package is purely cosmetic, no effect on the suspension, and it does not have Dynamic Handling package, no active dampers or Active Roll Stabilization.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 10-09-2013 at 07:36 AM.
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2013, 09:39 AM
KB2008 KB2008 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
This car is for sale by a small, independent used car dealer, not an Authorized BMW Center. I wouldn't touch with a 100' pole. Since it's a 2012 that means the M Sport package is purely cosmetic, no effect on the suspension, and it does not have Dynamic Handling package, no active dampers or Active Roll Stabilization.
So you're saying that I should only buy a pre-owned BMW from a BMW dealership even if the car is inspected by BMW and still under warranty? This was my initial thought since buying from BMW would get me a CPO and extended warranty. But someone also argued that there are much better warranties than those that come with the CPOs...plus any manufacturer is always going to price their cars higher and demand more so I assume there's less room for negotiation.

Regarding the M Sport package, I only want the package for the cosmetic changes...dont really care what it adds or fails to add regarding the handling. I currently drive a 2005 Nissan Altima so a base BMW with no options would be a significant upgrade to me lol.
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2013, 09:42 AM
KB2008 KB2008 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
If you did move forward on this I would want them to show me in person when they hook the car up to the diagnostic computer that there is no fault codes being stored in the car. This is a good indication if the car has any issues at the moment. I wouldn't tell them about this request up front but rather have them do it on the spot right in front of me.

Alan
Thanks Alan! I'll definitely have them hook the car up if I decide to pursue it...the dealership is also sending me all the info they received on the car from BMW.
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2013, 09:44 AM
KB2008 KB2008 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Make sure you get the car check out by a BMW mechanic other than the mechinics at that dealership.
Will do! I'm in Cincinnati and the car is in Atlanta...I'm not making the trip unless I'm 100%certain I'm willing to buy a car with the buyback/lemon branded on the title...it still doesnt sit well with me but if the issue was in fact fixed then it might be a great opportunity..
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  #17  
Old 10-09-2013, 09:56 AM
mness mness is offline
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Some interesting reading on buying a Lemon Buyback below: http://bit.ly/1hCvulO "Should I buy a lemon law buyback"

You have to wonder, if this was JUST that the auto start/stop didn't work, and that feature could be turned off by the dealer by default, nor could they fix it, that that alone was enough to warrant a buyback.

Some nice points from that article:

Before you decide whether you should buy a lemon law buyback, you should seriously consider what you are about to purchase: a used vehicle that someone else bought, brand-new, that turned out to be a lemon. Even worse, that lemon vehicle underwent numerous repairs, which the dealership was unable to fix, or they ended up causing more problems. The original buyer then returned that vehicle, not only because it was so problematic, but because the law required the manufacturer to repurchase the vehicle so the buyer was free to purchase another vehicle from somewhere else.

Manufacturers are under no obligation whatsoever to repair a lemon law buyback prior to listing it for sale -- they only have to disclose the vehicle's status as a lemon law buyback.

The dealer will likely divulge some or all of the lemon law buyback's problematic history, especially if you ask. But, you should anticipate that the dealer might try to downplay the issues the vehicle has, especially if the manufacturer hasn't repaired the lemon law buyback. Tactics may include: telling you the vehicle has already undergone multiple repairs, so most of the problems (may) have been fixed; stating that the problem(s) are only minor and do not interfere with the lemon vehicle's ability to operate correctly; stating that the problem(s) only need minor repairs and should not be expensive or hard to fix (or even suggesting that you could complete the repairs yourself at home; and suggesting that the discounted price of the lemon law buyback is worth the purchase, regardless of any problems the lemon law buyback may have. These suggestions are completely false, and you should be wary of any dealer who may encourage you to buy a lemon law buyback using the above though process.

not all warranties that come with brand-new cars are transferred when the vehicle undergoes a lemon law buyback. Manufacturers can and do rescind warranties on lemon law buybacks, which means unless you receive a new warranty at the time you buy the lemon law buyback, you likely aren't covered under the initial manufacturer's warranty. For this reason, it is imperative you find out whether the lemon law buyback you are thinking about purchasing comes with any warranty, and that you read through the terms of any warranty you may receive fully before you make an offer.

dealerships and manufacturers are usually unlikely to work with customers who buy a lemon law buyback. They typically take the stance that you were fully informed at the time you bought the buyback, and that you should have been prepared for any problems the vehicle later exhibited.
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Last edited by mness; 10-09-2013 at 10:57 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:34 AM
jygesq jygesq is offline
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run away!!
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  #19  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:35 AM
KB2008 KB2008 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mness View Post
Some interesting reading on buying a Lemon Buyback: http://www.lemonlawstatute.com/conte...aw-buyback.php below.

You have to wonder, if this was JUST that the auto start/stop didn't work, and that feature could be turned off by the dealer by default, nor could they fix it, that that alone was enough to warrant a buyback.

Some nice points from that article:

Before you decide whether you should buy a lemon law buyback, you should seriously consider what you are about to purchase: a used vehicle that someone else bought, brand-new, that turned out to be a lemon. Even worse, that lemon vehicle underwent numerous repairs, which the dealership was unable to fix, or they ended up causing more problems. The original buyer then returned that vehicle, not only because it was so problematic, but because the law required the manufacturer to repurchase the vehicle so the buyer was free to purchase another vehicle from somewhere else.

Manufacturers are under no obligation whatsoever to repair a lemon law buyback prior to listing it for sale -- they only have to disclose the vehicle's status as a lemon law buyback.

The dealer will likely divulge some or all of the lemon law buyback's problematic history, especially if you ask. But, you should anticipate that the dealer might try to downplay the issues the vehicle has, especially if the manufacturer hasn't repaired the lemon law buyback. Tactics may include: telling you the vehicle has already undergone multiple repairs, so most of the problems (may) have been fixed; stating that the problem(s) are only minor and do not interfere with the lemon vehicle's ability to operate correctly; stating that the problem(s) only need minor repairs and should not be expensive or hard to fix (or even suggesting that you could complete the repairs yourself at home; and suggesting that the discounted price of the lemon law buyback is worth the purchase, regardless of any problems the lemon law buyback may have. These suggestions are completely false, and you should be wary of any dealer who may encourage you to buy a lemon law buyback using the above though process.

not all warranties that come with brand-new cars are transferred when the vehicle undergoes a lemon law buyback. Manufacturers can and do rescind warranties on lemon law buybacks, which means unless you receive a new warranty at the time you buy the lemon law buyback, you likely aren't covered under the initial manufacturer's warranty. For this reason, it is imperative you find out whether the lemon law buyback you are thinking about purchasing comes with any warranty, and that you read through the terms of any warranty you may receive fully before you make an offer.

dealerships and manufacturers are usually unlikely to work with customers who buy a lemon law buyback. They typically take the stance that you were fully informed at the time you bought the buyback, and that you should have been prepared for any problems the vehicle later exhibited.
Thanks! This was extremely helpful!
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  #20  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:37 AM
KB2008 KB2008 is offline
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run away!!
Lol I'm pretty sure I will..I'm still interested to see if anyone has purchased a buyback and had issues...
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  #21  
Old 10-09-2013, 02:53 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB2008 View Post
So you're saying that I should only buy a pre-owned BMW from a BMW dealership even if the car is inspected by BMW and still under warranty? This was my initial thought since buying from BMW would get me a CPO and extended warranty. But someone also argued that there are much better warranties than those that come with the CPOs...plus any manufacturer is always going to price their cars higher and demand more so I assume there's less room for negotiation.

Regarding the M Sport package, I only want the package for the cosmetic changes...dont really care what it adds or fails to add regarding the handling. I currently drive a 2005 Nissan Altima so a base BMW with no options would be a significant upgrade to me lol.
I'm saying IF I were to buy a buyback/lemon vehicle there is no way I would buy one from a non-BMW dealer. There is also no way I would buy one without an extended warranty and at an exceptionally good price.

Big, big question - if this car is worth having and taking a risk on why is it not for sale at an Authorized BMW Center? Why did all the BMW dealers, who had the first opportunity to buy it at a closed BMW auction, pass and let it go to the open auction?
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  #22  
Old 10-10-2013, 09:58 AM
KB2008 KB2008 is offline
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Thanks for the feedback everyone! I've attached the response and buyback form from the dealership.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BuyBack.pdf (219.9 KB, 36 views)
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  #23  
Old 10-10-2013, 10:12 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Hmmm, that doesnt sound like its a auto start stop problem at all. It sounds like a misfiring and fail to start problem. I would stay away from this car.
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  #24  
Old 10-10-2013, 10:31 AM
jygesq jygesq is offline
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as I said before run!!

do not look back or even think what might have been. There are many cars for sale.
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  #25  
Old 10-10-2013, 10:50 AM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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I agree with everyone here.

Modern day cars now just have too many gadgets/gizmos/tech to go wrong and there are times where diagnosing and fixing is very difficult for the dealer because they can't just keep replacing parts left and right . I would skip this car and find a different one.

Alan
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