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F10 M5 (2012 - Current)
The count down is on. The BMW M5 F10 will be released on April 1st, 2011!

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  #1  
Old 10-21-2013, 01:46 AM
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Question F10 M5 Competition Pkg. vs. E63 AMG S 4 Matic

I know that this is a BMW forum, so I'm expecting the responses to be biased slightly, but for those of you who recently got an F10 M5 or waiting on delivery, did you cross shop against the E63? I'm looking to upgrade from my current Audi B8 S4 into an M5, but with the recent announcement of the E63, I am torn. Curious to know what M5 owners think of the competition.

In comparing the two, here are my pros and cons:

MCT vs. DCT
AMG uses a 7 speed automatic they call speedshift that eliminates the torque converter and replaces it with a wet clutch pack. Faster shifts, but it is still an automatic and not a true dual clutch. Reviews of the transmission has been good, all say it is fast but not as fast as BMW's DCT or Porsche's PDK. -- BMW wins, but is it really a large enough factor? Their claimed 100ms shifts are still fast. DCT > MCT > 8-speed ZF or standard automatics.

Styling
Highly subjective, but there is something about the e63's creases and angles that is appealing. NO winner, but at the end of the day, people end up buying what looks good to them.

Engine
AMG S engine is balls out power. 577hp/590lb-ft vs. M5's 575hp/502lb-ft
Torque starts at 1500 RPM on the BMW vs. 1750 RPM on the E63

Fuel economy: E63 - 16/23 vs. M5 - 17/22 - it's a wash and who cares about these numbers when you buy a V8 performance car.

RWD vs. 4-Matic AWD
I've been driving an Audi so performance AWD systems are nothing new to me. The 67/33% split between rear and front is fixed but can shift 70% either way for traction on the E63.
We can debate about this, but I think AMG wanted AWD for power delivery and to tame down the hooliganism that previous E63's were known for.

Electronics and Cabin tech
This is where I feel that the BMW wins hands down. The E63 cabin tech feels like it is 1-2years behind that of BMW and Audi. I-Drive is far more superior than MB's offering. The Merc has no HUD.

Exhaust
AMG wins here - they don't need to pump artificial engine noise through the speakers. Hearing sound clips and videos, AMG has always done well in this department.

Weight
Both are heavy weights within 100 lbs of each other. Not an issue for me, as it is expected in this category.

Interior fit and finish
The E class cabin feels more classical yet more expensive. fit and finish and materials are on par and can't go wrong with either. The Bimmer's interior looks fresher with more digital readouts and curves.

Price
The E63 is a tad bit more, but not by much.


Am I missing anything else I should consider?
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  #2  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:49 AM
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F10 M5 Competition Pkg. vs. E63 AMG S 4 Matic

All in all a pretty fair review...

I much prefer the BMW lines and look. I also think their ethos is more in line with what I want from a performance car company, though as they dilute into 12 different lines, plus M that may change.

To MB seems more of my Dads car (and I am not young myself)

The one thing I think you need to evaluate is the ride... I much prefer the seating and cockpit layout of the BMW, and the connected feel on the road.

Go drive them hard back to back and tell us what you think.


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Old 10-21-2013, 09:45 AM
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The new E63 AMG S 4 Matic is an M5 killer in types of performance.. but it's ugly in my eyes.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:43 PM
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Consider the handling too. I don't know specifically about the 4-Matic version of the E63, but with previous versions the M5 handles significantly better, usually a couple of seconds quicker in the slalom tests.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by badblack550xi View Post
The new E63 AMG S 4 Matic is an M5 killer in types of performance.. but it's ugly in my eyes.
you mean like the bms stage 1.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:08 PM
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F10 M5 Competition Pkg. vs. E63 AMG S 4 Matic

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Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
Consider the handling too. I don't know specifically about the 4-Matic version of the E63, but with previous versions the M5 handles significantly better, usually a couple of seconds quicker in the slalom tests.
A couple of seconds?!?! That's a lot, are you sure?


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Old 10-22-2013, 08:40 PM
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A couple of seconds?!?! That's a lot, are you sure?


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Could be the last generation E63 because I've seen comparos when the M5 first came out. I don't think that there is any fact to that statement because slaloms are recorded based on top speed to complete the slalom and not time.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:45 AM
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Apologies, it was a couple of MPH not seconds, and the difference in my head was to the Audi S6 when compared with the F10 M5 and E63 AMG. The E63 was only 0.3 mph slower then the stock F10 M5.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:16 AM
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F10 M5 Competition Pkg. vs. E63 AMG S 4 Matic

Out of curiosity are you leasing or buying/cash? That may be a large difference when it comes time. T

Anyone have experience with MB leases? Are they pretty similar to BMWs? I've read on here Audi leases have very low residuals, ie bad for leasing.

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  #10  
Old 10-23-2013, 06:59 AM
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you mean like the bms stage 1.
any good tracks in Maine ?
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:30 AM
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Out of curiosity are you leasing or buying/cash? That may be a large difference when it comes time. T

Anyone have experience with MB leases? Are they pretty similar to BMWs? I've read on here Audi leases have very low residuals, ie bad for leasing.

Chris


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MB leases for their higher end cars (the 550's, 600's, and AMG's) are about on par with the M cars of BMW. BMW M residuals are typically much lower than regular series cars. So I'd say leasing an M or leasing an AMG is likely to be a wash. Exceptions are current X6M which is near the end of its cycle and has higher residual to help move them. It's 4% higher than back in November when I leased my X6M.

Audi residuals are despicable to the point of leasing not making sense. Same with Porsche.

Last edited by ddk632; 10-23-2013 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
Apologies, it was a couple of MPH not seconds, and the difference in my head was to the Audi S6 when compared with the F10 M5 and E63 AMG. The E63 was only 0.3 mph slower then the stock F10 M5.
3/10 of a second is not a "couple" This is the same comparo I remember when the F10 just came out. The new generation E63 AMG S just came out recently and journalists haven't had much time to do objective testing yet.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisF01 View Post
Out of curiosity are you leasing or buying/cash? That may be a large difference when it comes time. T

Anyone have experience with MB leases? Are they pretty similar to BMWs? I've read on here Audi leases have very low residuals, ie bad for leasing.

Chris


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I will most likely do cash or little financing. In my experience, even when you have means to do an all cash transaction, it's better if you take out a small loan. BMW Financials and most financing will give the dealership kickbacks / commission for selling their loan. Theoretically it should give the dealership more money and allow you more room to negotiate. I think that leasing is a wash between the two. Another factor why I'm leaning towards the BMW is the discount they are willing to sell for. Not sure if any of you have used truecar.com, but comparing dealers in my area, several dealers have been offering them a little above invoice. For example, I priced my configuration at $120,055 and one dealer is willing to sell it for $112,000 and some others closer to invoice, but just not in my immediate area.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:12 PM
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OMG, I have been looking everywhere for E63 AMG review and this was just release today. Couldn't be better because it's an actual head2head.

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Old 10-24-2013, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
3/10 of a second is not a "couple" This is the same comparo I remember when the F10 just came out. The new generation E63 AMG S just came out recently and journalists haven't had much time to do objective testing yet.
No, it's not, the 'couple' was the figure between the M5 and Audi. There is a similar comparison of the M6 GC, RS7 and S63 where the M6 is a couple of mph faster then both (44.1, 41.7 and 42.1 respectively).
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:03 AM
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any good tracks in Maine ?
actually there are some good tracks in maine,new hampshire, and vermont. But for what your looking for the local high school parking lot would be good enough.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:31 AM
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F10 M5 Competition Pkg. vs. E63 AMG S 4 Matic

To answer your question OP, I would pick the E63. In my opinion, AMGs are more sleeper than ///M cars. It's harder to tell if a car is an AMG than if a car is an ///M, at least to me. (Providing you don't see the back.) That's not a bad thing at all, because you're not buying these cars to be seen in.

As for the driving experience, I can only relate through the lesser models.

I've driven an E90 M3 and a C63 AMG coupe and the C63 AMG was a lot more fun with all that extra torque available all throughout the powerband. I guess this doesn't help between the M5 and the E63 though, because the M5 doesn't lack in torque...in general though, I know I would have more fun in an AMG than an ///M.







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Old 10-24-2013, 10:04 PM
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actually there are some good tracks in maine,new hampshire, and vermont. But for what your looking for the local high school parking lot would be good enough.
really your High school parking lot is over 1/4 mile long ?
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:08 PM
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you mean like the bms stage 1.
just an FYI i make more TQ at the wheels than stock M5
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:45 PM
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Re: F10 M5 Competition Pkg. vs. E63 AMG S 4 MaticF10 M5 Competition Pkg. vs. E63 AMG

Both cars are quite nice I believe. I would be happy with either one of them if I did not mind the fuel costs to keep them running at peak horsepower

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Old 10-25-2013, 02:40 AM
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just an FYI i make more TQ at the wheels than stock M5
You at it again
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:42 AM
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You at it again
if you gave him a stick of cotton candy he could be a clown at the circus.
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:47 AM
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just an FYI i make more TQ at the wheels than stock M5
even with your modded awd 550 and more torque in theory your modded stage 8 550 still can not better a stock M5 IN THE 1/4 MILE. I believe on bimmerpost stealth pilot just got into the 11's in a STOCK M5. OH WELL.
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:51 AM
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just an FYI i make more TQ at the wheels than stock M5
Yah in theory, but there have been many dyno's that are reporting stock m5's as having 500-515 wheel HP and 460 ft./lbs. of torque. And still beating stage 8 550's.
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:53 AM
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really your High school parking lot is over 1/4 mile long ?
Excuse me I meant the movie theater converted drag strip.
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