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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:30 AM
mysticalice mysticalice is offline
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Location: Texas
 
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Mein Auto: 2011 BMW 335d
Potential new 335d owner - need some advice

Hi
Let me start out by saying I'm very, very new to BMWs. My guitar teacher back in high school swore by them, and had several 80s models which he claimed would never break. I'm a big fan of German engineering, and have a lot of respect for them.
My history, however, has been with Cadillacs. I've owned several CTS-Vs (both stock and modded), and while I've had plenty of fun destroying M3s and M5s over the years, I sold my last CTS-V a few months ago. They are also outstanding cars, although if I had to criticize one thing, it would be the quality is not quite german-level yet. Perhaps in a few years. For the 7+ years I owned CTS-Vs I was an active and contributing member to the community, an I intend on doing the same here

Anyway, I'm getting older, have a wife and a house now, and currently driving a Camry, which is killing me. My CTS-Vs were always weekend drivers, but I'm trying to find a compromise - a car that's comfortable, classy, and gets good (great?) gas mileage, all in one.

To my understanding, from the little research I've done, the 335D is that car.

My commute is generally 50% city 50% highway, BUT I frequently take road trips of 250-300 miles (at least once or twice a month).

Just wanted to get everyone's take and opinion on the 335D. Sounds like an outstanding car. A few concerns/questions:
1) I know nothing about diesel other than that everyone in Europe drives diesel cars. I know you have to fill the 'urea' periodically? How does that work, how hard is it to do, how much does it cost, etc?
2) Any other maintenance issues that I have to worry about having a diesel vs a gasoline engine?
3) As far as tuning - this is going to be a daily driver, but I'm a big advocate of doing light tunes to improve throttle response, gas mileage, and so forth. Are there options out there? What kind of HP/TQ/city-mpg/hwy-mpg could I expect, and for what price tag?
4) Anything else you think I should know? Long term and short term maintenance costs, etc?

Thanks guys - I'm looking forward to being a member of the community
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  #2  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:44 AM
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B/\/\W B/\/\W is offline
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Location: England
 
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Mein Auto: E92 330i Manual
Hi, welcome. You've made a great decision in wanting to look into getting a BMW, and anything 33x is going to be a fantastic car.

1.) A lot of people drive diesels here in the UK, there is a massive abundance of 320d BMWs as an example. It's because our fuel is so much more expensive than in the US. However you usually end up paying a premium for the car in the UK, which can negate fuel savings to a certain extent. With a diesel engine you get fantastic torque pretty much from idle, but the ride is not quite as smooth (depending on how many cylinders you have), better economy, lower cruising revs, and very decent power with modern turbos. The gears are close ratio because the rev range is less than a petrol. It would be a great economical cruising car on the highway and would be very comfortable. It would handle city driving equally well because you wouldn't need to be changing gear much.
2.) With a diesel BMW, a turbo means one more thing to go wrong, but I doubt it's a reason not to get one.
4.) Genuine BMW parts are expensive, can you do your own maintenance? I personally wouldn't take a BMW anywhere other than an indy specialist, a trusted and experienced local garage where you know the owner, or the dealer (expensive). A 335d will eat its rear tyres because it's difficult to not use the torque available.
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Last edited by B/\/\W; 10-21-2013 at 09:54 AM.
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  #3  
Old 10-21-2013, 10:08 AM
mysticalice mysticalice is offline
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Mein Auto: 2011 BMW 335d
Thank you very much for the fast response.

To be honest, the maintenance is one thing I'm hesitant on. I plan to maintain my factory warranty on the car for anything major that goes, and I have a pretty good relationship with a shop here that works mainly on domestic cars, but for basics (oil changes, etc) I think they would be able to handle the BMW.

Ride quality not being quite as smooth is not something I had even thought of
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  #4  
Old 10-21-2013, 10:32 AM
B/\/\W's Avatar
B/\/\W B/\/\W is offline
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I've been in a 330d, and I own the 330i - so the main difference I felt was that the petrol has greater torque at 1000rpm, which is nice for idling around the city, a more refined ride, more even power delivery as it gets its power from revs not pure brute torque (more comfortable). The 1st gear seemed almost unusable in the diesel if you floor the pedal because there's so much torque and a short gear.

I'd say arrange a test drive in a 3 liter petrol and a 3 liter diesel and compare. Both have their merits!

A 335d would still be a very comfortable ride with its 6 cylinders.
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Last edited by B/\/\W; 10-21-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2013, 10:47 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Location: Renton, WA
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticalice View Post
... I'm trying to find a compromise - a car that's comfortable, classy, and gets good (great?) gas mileage, all in one.

To my understanding, from the little research I've done, the 335D is that car.

My commute is generally 50% city 50% highway, BUT I frequently take road trips of 250-300 miles (at least once or twice a month).

Just wanted to get everyone's take and opinion on the 335D. Sounds like an outstanding car. A few concerns/questions:
1) I know nothing about diesel other than that everyone in Europe drives diesel cars. I know you have to fill the 'urea' periodically? How does that work, how hard is it to do, how much does it cost, etc?
2) Any other maintenance issues that I have to worry about having a diesel vs a gasoline engine?
3) As far as tuning - this is going to be a daily driver, but I'm a big advocate of doing light tunes to improve throttle response, gas mileage, and so forth. Are there options out there? What kind of HP/TQ/city-mpg/hwy-mpg could I expect, and for what price tag?
4) Anything else you think I should know? Long term and short term maintenance costs, etc?
The diesel forum is the better place to ask questions: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/for...ysprune=&f=154

The 335d does get better mileage than the 328i/335i, but only by 5-7 mpg more: most people are averaging 35-40 highway, 25-32 city. It's a big engine, compared to the 4-pot ones.
1) Not a problem.
2) Emissions systems on these cars has been an issue - see threads in diesel forum: search for EGR, DPF, DEF/SCR.
3) JBD seems to work well; no real mileage improvements, but some HP improvements.
4) Some people have had injector problems, some of those seem to be actually DDE (ECU) problems. Some people have had "carbon buildup" problems (EGR induced?); this seems somewhat related to heavy city/urban use cycles.

Also, e90post diesel forum has info: http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=377

Last edited by floydarogers; 10-21-2013 at 10:48 AM. Reason: add e90post link
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  #6  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:08 PM
coyote95667 coyote95667 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
The diesel forum is the better place to ask questions: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/for...ysprune=&f=154

The 335d does get better mileage than the 328i/335i, but only by 5-7 mpg more
misleading... that 5-7mpg in my case is 20-28%, which is huge if you drive a lot. And that is the improvement over a 328i (I was getting 25 with my 328i, and I get 31 with my 335D). The difference compared to a 335i has got to be significantly more.

I use about 1200 gallons of fuel per year (yes I drive about $30K miles per year) at about $4.20/gal = about $5K per year on fuel.

Let me save just 20% of that (conservative estimate, taking into account that where I live diesel is lately about a dime more per gallon than premium gas), we're talking a grand. Nothing to sniff at.

There is just no car in the world with the combination of muscle car feel and fuel economy. no way. 335D is an engineering miracle.

Last edited by coyote95667; 10-23-2013 at 10:11 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2013, 09:01 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote95667 View Post
misleading... that 5-7mpg in my case is 20-28%, which is huge if you drive a lot. And that is the improvement over a 328i (I was getting 25 with my 328i, and I get 31 with my 335D). The difference compared to a 335i has got to be significantly more. ....
I agree that it's nothing to sniff at, however I've actually run the numbers and the numbers you've thrown around are not terribly accurate, and a little too generous. For instance, plugging in 25 mpg and 31 mpg yields a savings of 232 gallons (19%): if it were premium gasoline that would be a savings of about $929 (if both diesel and premium were $4.00). So, your guess of "a grand" is pretty good, but on the upper end, not bottom. Unfortunately, the dollar savings is actually smaller, as diesel in my area is around $4.04 while premium is $3.75 right now.

I'm going to drive across state - about 290 miles - today. Except for the fact that I will be driving a bit on the two ends, I can easily make it both ways without re-fueling, as I expect to get 35-40 mpg.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:27 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticalice View Post
Thank you very much for the fast response.

To be honest, the maintenance is one thing I'm hesitant on. I plan to maintain my factory warranty on the car for anything major that goes, and I have a pretty good relationship with a shop here that works mainly on domestic cars, but for basics (oil changes, etc) I think they would be able to handle the BMW.

Ride quality not being quite as smooth is not something I had even thought of
Huh? Ride quality with stock shocks on the U.S. spec 335d is not bad (even with the Sport suspension option). If you want further improvement, swap out the stock shocks for Koni FSDs.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:58 PM
coyote95667 coyote95667 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
I agree that it's nothing to sniff at, however I've actually run the numbers and the numbers you've thrown around are not terribly accurate, and a little too generous. For instance, plugging in 25 mpg and 31 mpg yields a savings of 232 gallons (19%): if it were premium gasoline that would be a savings of about $929 (if both diesel and premium were $4.00). So, your guess of "a grand" is pretty good, but on the upper end, not bottom. Unfortunately, the dollar savings is actually smaller, as diesel in my area is around $4.04 while premium is $3.75 right now.

I'm going to drive across state - about 290 miles - today. Except for the fact that I will be driving a bit on the two ends, I can easily make it both ways without re-fueling, as I expect to get 35-40 mpg.
You are using the wrong denominator 6/25 is the correct percentage improvement, not 6/31
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2013, 06:29 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote95667 View Post
You are using the wrong denominator 6/25 is the correct percentage improvement, not 6/31
True, but irrelevant, as the rest of the numbers are not dependent upon either ratio.
BTW, I got 35.6 mpg coming over here to Pullman from the Seattle area; of course I haven't re-filled, which would allow me to do a hand calculation - usually is 1-1.5 mpg more than indicated by the computer.
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  #11  
Old 10-24-2013, 07:20 PM
coyote95667 coyote95667 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
True, but irrelevant, as the rest of the numbers are not dependent upon either ratio.
BTW, I got 35.6 mpg coming over here to Pullman from the Seattle area; of course I haven't re-filled, which would allow me to do a hand calculation - usually is 1-1.5 mpg more than indicated by the computer.
Every bit as relevant as a petty difference between 926 and 1000 after you hacked down the price per gallon variable. Your supposed correction of my statement was immaterial. But you shrug off your own stupid arithmetic error as you cop a condescending tone toward me. Whew amazing. So go back and tell me what exactly your quibble is with my original point? See.... That's some pretty minor petty nit to pick even if you weren't absolutely completely wrong across the board - broadly and in detail.
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2013, 07:56 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticalice View Post
Hi
Let me start out by saying I'm very, very new to BMWs. My guitar teacher back in high school swore by them, and had several 80s models which he claimed would never break. I'm a big fan of German engineering, and have a lot of respect for them.
My history, however, has been with Cadillacs. I've owned several CTS-Vs (both stock and modded), and while I've had plenty of fun destroying M3s and M5s over the years, I sold my last CTS-V a few months ago. They are also outstanding cars, although if I had to criticize one thing, it would be the quality is not quite german-level yet. Perhaps in a few years. For the 7+ years I owned CTS-Vs I was an active and contributing member to the community, an I intend on doing the same here

Anyway, I'm getting older, have a wife and a house now, and currently driving a Camry, which is killing me. My CTS-Vs were always weekend drivers, but I'm trying to find a compromise - a car that's comfortable, classy, and gets good (great?) gas mileage, all in one.

To my understanding, from the little research I've done, the 335D is that car.

My commute is generally 50% city 50% highway, BUT I frequently take road trips of 250-300 miles (at least once or twice a month).

Just wanted to get everyone's take and opinion on the 335D. Sounds like an outstanding car. A few concerns/questions:
1) I know nothing about diesel other than that everyone in Europe drives diesel cars. I know you have to fill the 'urea' periodically? How does that work, how hard is it to do, how much does it cost, etc?
2) Any other maintenance issues that I have to worry about having a diesel vs a gasoline engine?
3) As far as tuning - this is going to be a daily driver, but I'm a big advocate of doing light tunes to improve throttle response, gas mileage, and so forth. Are there options out there? What kind of HP/TQ/city-mpg/hwy-mpg could I expect, and for what price tag?
4) Anything else you think I should know? Long term and short term maintenance costs, etc?

Thanks guys - I'm looking forward to being a member of the community

Weekend car? '86 Porsche, 911, if you can find it. re: BMW....If you buy 335i, prepare to spend. Lots to improve. Can view Caddy 'way back in the rearview, twisties. Fast enough - 3000 lb, up to 460 ft lb easily done. Ditto hp but, where can you do 150 mph 'cept the track? Expect European engine profile.
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  #13  
Old 10-24-2013, 11:38 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote95667 View Post
Every bit as relevant as a petty difference between 926 and 1000 after you hacked down the price per gallon variable. Your supposed correction of my statement was immaterial. But you shrug off your own stupid arithmetic error as you cop a condescending tone toward me. Whew amazing. So go back and tell me what exactly your quibble is with my original point? See.... That's some pretty minor petty nit to pick even if you weren't absolutely completely wrong across the board - broadly and in detail.
I'm sorry about the word "irrelevant" - it was poorly chosen. My point was that none of the other numbers derived from that ratio.

My only quibble is simply stated: IMO your statements and numbers are too optimistic.

None of this will matter too much to the OP anyway, as his driving habits and regimes are entirely different than either of ours and his mileage won't match ours.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:54 PM
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LMC LMC is offline
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I've been watching BMW's toe dipping in the Diesel waters for years -- I have really, really wanted to jump in, but have decided not to. In my opinion -- and I have not followed the recent US-market Diesel woes as closely as the owners, of course -- there are some significant drawbacks to owning a BMW Diesel in the USA.

The E90 335d is a terrific car, in my opinion. They appeared to offer a significant advantage over their gas counterparts and, while priced considerably higher, were sold with incentives that made them a bargain. As floydroagers indicates, the longer-term track record has been a bit troubling, though. My impression is that fuel quality has been an issue in the States and I'm not sure that BMW took this into account. The cars have had problems and BMWNA's response has left some owners with a bad taste.

I defintiely agree that careful research on 335d issues and problems would be wise.

The E90 335d is now Old News and we have a new generation of 4 cyl 3er Diesels; again, great cars on the face of it -- less power and better fuel economy -- but will they frustrate their owners in the same way?
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:18 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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I've been watching BMW's toe dipping in the Diesel waters for years -- I have really, really wanted to jump in, but have decided not to. In my opinion -- and I have not followed the recent US-market Diesel woes as closely as the owners, of course -- there are some significant drawbacks to owning a BMW Diesel in the USA.

The E90 335d is a terrific car, in my opinion. They appeared to offer a significant advantage over their gas counterparts and, while priced considerably higher, were sold with incentives that made them a bargain. As floydroagers indicates, the longer-term track record has been a bit troubling, though. My impression is that fuel quality has been an issue in the States and I'm not sure that BMW took this into account. The cars have had problems and BMWNA's response has left some owners with a bad taste.

I defintiely agree that careful research on 335d issues and problems would be wise.

The E90 335d is now Old News and we have a new generation of 4 cyl 3er Diesels; again, great cars on the face of it -- less power and better fuel economy -- but will they frustrate their owners in the same way?
Meh. There have been a few problems with the gassers as well. HPFP comes to mind as a problem that plagued the gassers for quite a long time. Net-net, it comes down to how badly do you want a diesel. They aren't for everyone. But compared to the other diesel offerings at the time, I don't regret my choice of the 335d.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:48 PM
skm32us skm32us is offline
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buy the car , I love mine period, mpg is great and it will be an improvement over what ever your driving in my opinion.
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:47 PM
HyperRated HyperRated is offline
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[QUOTE=floydarogers;7909763]The diesel forum is the better place to ask questions: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/for...ysprune=&f=154


3) JBD seems to work well; no real mileage improvements, but some HP improvements.

??

are you kidding me? it gives you over 500 torque and mid 300 HP. You shouldn't give misleading advices to new owners especially on something that makes the car superiorly powerful.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:18 AM
skm32us skm32us is offline
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I have not given mis-leading advice , I have stated facts about my specific vehicle, the dyno tune was done by myself, a programmer friend of mine, and a very nice guy in charlotte that own a dyno shop, I wouldn't advise a person re-tune their vehicle to the level that mine is at , simply bcuz most people want to be able to keep their warrenties ect , mine is out of warrenty . I am a huge gear head to start with, and I am an auto engineer, to tinkering with vehicles is what I do anyway.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:54 AM
jfxogara jfxogara is online now
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I have 27K miles on my 2011 and love every minute I am behind the wheel. After owning two Mercedes 300-d models (the old ones) I feel like I am waking up from a long nightmare.

It's a bit over-the-top power-wise, but low key and quiet at the same time, which I love.

Mileage in town (I live in DC) is decent but often just high 20s; mileage on the highway is amazing -- easy to beat 40 with the a/c off.

I am mindful of what others have said about the high-tech emissions system being a potential problem down the road. Also, i do not see a lot of these and even at the dealer, i wonder how much mind-share the car has among the mechanics, i.e., they have the tooling and training to do the 335i, I know that, but the d?
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:45 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Originally Posted by skm32us View Post
I have not given mis-leading advice , I have stated facts about my specific vehicle, the dyno tune was done by myself, a programmer friend of mine, and a very nice guy in charlotte that own a dyno shop, I wouldn't advise a person re-tune their vehicle to the level that mine is at , simply bcuz most people want to be able to keep their warrenties ect , mine is out of warrenty . I am a huge gear head to start with, and I am an auto engineer, to tinkering with vehicles is what I do anyway.
You should skate over to the diesel sub-forum here, and also go over to E90post to their diesel forum. There are some guys that are struggling with modding the engines, particularly in the area related to re-programming the DDE, where you seem to have some expertise (and your friend.) I'm totally impressed with your abilities in this area.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/for...prune=-1&f=154
http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=377

Do be aware of the legalities of some of the intended mods...
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