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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 10-24-2013, 08:03 PM
PAX5 PAX5 is offline
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Location: Pennsylvania
 
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Mein Auto: X5 50i
Why are my tires cupping?

I followed the recommended alignment adjustments on this forum (thanks ARD!) and got my friendly local indy to set it according to the attached picture.

Now, nearly 2,000+ miles later, the front tires are showing fairly significant "cupping" (or feathering/scalloping?), resulting in a noisy ride ...

Both pictures below are right front. Left front is not as bad.

Could this be:
- poor alignment
- inferior tire quality
- wheel imbalance
- other?

Car has 29K miles, but the wheels and tires came of my previous X5 4.8i and have a total of 10K mi, and 2k mi since the alignment.

I am purposely leaving out the brand of the tire because I don't want anybody's opinion to be clouded by what they think of any particular brand. I do realize that some tires are "better" quality than "others" ...
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Last edited by PAX5; 10-24-2013 at 08:18 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-24-2013, 08:05 PM
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What brand/type of tire?

My Michelin Pilot Sports were so noisy at 20k, I had to replace them. So 29k might not be too bad.
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2013, 08:21 PM
ND40oz ND40oz is offline
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Cupping is usually pressure if your alignment is ok. What tires and what pressures are you running them at?
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  #4  
Old 10-25-2013, 06:10 AM
nonford nonford is offline
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The two contributing factors to cupping are usually low quality tires and if that's not the case, bad or worn struts and shocks. You also mentioned that they came off another vehicle and the problem may have been the end result of that vehicle too. Other things to look out for are alignment, wheel bearings and unbalanced tires or bad rims.

Last edited by nonford; 10-25-2013 at 06:16 AM.
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  #5  
Old 10-25-2013, 07:52 AM
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Visual and the cause..



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  #6  
Old 10-25-2013, 08:51 AM
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This is great stuff, thanks guys!
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  #7  
Old 10-25-2013, 10:11 AM
ard ard is offline
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that toe looks pretty high and the camber should be symmetric.
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2013, 12:25 PM
PAX5 PAX5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
that toe looks pretty high and the camber should be symmetric.
I agree. I was there for the entire alignment procedure. They used a brand new Hunter Alignment system and allowed me to walk around and underneath the car to watch. As the mechanic adjusted the concentrics, I could see the value change. Then he would tighten the nut to lock the value in place .... As he walked away to the next wheel, the 0.02 target value would change, sort of drift ...!?!? We did this 3 or 4 times, sometimes it would drift higher, sometimes lower. We finally ended up at the values in the pictures ..., but each time the concentric nuts where tightened at the target value when they appeared on the screen.

I attribute the change/drift to the wide profile tires for the following reason: the optical assembly is hung from the wheel and as you make the adjustment on the concentric of a solid suspension member of the independent suspension, you in effect pull on the tire which is stationary and held in place by friction ... eventually the tire (or suspension parts?) would equilibrate, and the value would change/drift ...

I am going to have them do the alignment again.

Thoughts?
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  #9  
Old 10-26-2013, 03:54 AM
BMWdewd BMWdewd is offline
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My 2 cents--

This summer my 328i xdrive with staggered setup hit 10k miles.. almost hated driving it as it was loud.. (low droan) not sure when it happened but thought it was a product of RTF.. last Feb I got a new x5 with RFT. thing drove so quiet.. 328i in for service I asked tech about the noise (since my new x5 with RFT was quiet) said the inside of the tires were cupped pretty bad. (almost stop sign shape) I live in NH - park this 328i in winters (just cause I can and it has the M pkg with summer tires) I don't think its seen rain and never further than 100 miles from my home. dealer replaced all 4 tires.. and said pay for the alignment (was really off) gave a little history on this car since it's babied..alignment shouldnt be off)

x5 hits 1800 miles.. I went into dealer, said alignment please- they said it shouldn't need it, I'm paying please do it. sure enough it's off -

summary, they either wrench them down when they transport them and pop out alignment or maybe--they are never aligned from factory?

My 2 cents =)

I've owned every brand of car- always buy new.. never keep them longer than 30k and never needed tires or alignment-- maybe it's a BMW thing =) I'll buy BMW again but will get alignment right out the gate.
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2013, 04:02 AM
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TinyRK TinyRK is offline
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I am switching from my 20" 333s to 19" Winter Setup.
Should I do an alignment before or after the change, does it matter? It shouldn't, correct?

I will use ard's recommended numbers from here:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=51

Attached my current numbers I finally was able to get from my dealer.
I am disgusted by the toe alone, especially after what I learned from ard and other here in regards of alignment.
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Last edited by MMME30W; 10-26-2013 at 06:35 AM.
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  #11  
Old 10-26-2013, 06:53 AM
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^^^

For my part, I've always felt that swapping tires/wheels should not "of itself" need an aligmnent.

I did get a 4W alignment at the dealer ($99 with coupon) when I put my PS2s on the M3, only because at 35K and five years I wanted to make sure all was well.
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2013, 10:31 AM
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TinyRK TinyRK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
I agree. I was there for the entire alignment procedure. They used a brand new Hunter Alignment system and allowed me to walk around and underneath the car to watch. As the mechanic adjusted the concentrics, I could see the value change. Then he would tighten the nut to lock the value in place .... As he walked away to the next wheel, the 0.02 target value would change, sort of drift ...!?!? We did this 3 or 4 times, sometimes it would drift higher, sometimes lower. We finally ended up at the values in the pictures ..., but each time the concentric nuts where tightened at the target value when they appeared on the screen.

I attribute the change/drift to the wide profile tires for the following reason: the optical assembly is hung from the wheel and as you make the adjustment on the concentric of a solid suspension member of the independent suspension, you in effect pull on the tire which is stationary and held in place by friction ... eventually the tire (or suspension parts?) would equilibrate, and the value would change/drift ...

I am going to have them do the alignment again.

Thoughts?

Did they put weight in the car?

So I tried to get mine aligned yesterday with the targeted numbers,
they said they can't do it, because they would need to put weight in the car.
And then I remembered this:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...58#post7753158
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=527754


Any input?
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2013, 11:17 AM
ard ard is offline
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Why couldnt they put weight in the car???
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  #14  
Old 10-28-2013, 11:19 AM
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TinyRK TinyRK is offline
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They didn't have any.
It was not a major chain either.
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  #15  
Old 10-28-2013, 11:25 AM
PAX5 PAX5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRK View Post
Did they put weight in the car?

Any input?
Yes! I forgot to mention that they put the requisite weight in the car ... can't remember the exact amount, but they placed several bags in the front and rear seats.

But the weight is static ... and shouldn't effect the measurement once locked in place. My problem is that AFTER the concentric nut was tightened, there was "drift" of the value ...
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  #16  
Old 10-30-2013, 07:21 AM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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I thought the whole BMW weight / ride height thing changed.


Last edited by RockChips; 10-30-2013 at 07:33 AM.
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