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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #101  
Old 02-09-2014, 09:11 AM
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Keyser Soze Keyser Soze is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
An F10 would still be my #1 choice for my next car, currently, for the record. For the price, design, drive, tech, interior, lasting values (in design), etc. I don't see anything coming near it. However the only reason I might write off one is that I really want to force myself to not get the same car twice, especially so close to when the next gen is coming out (which at the end of my lease would just be another 1 and a half, approaching 2 at most).

However, every time I see a white LCI 535i with LED headlights I drool.... I can't resist the design and package and attainable deals you can get that with, with the right timing/dealer.

Though I know I'll make a big case to force myself to not get the same thing twice.... if I can stick to it. Good problem to have if it comes to it, I guess.
You really wouldn't be getting the same thing twice though - since you'd get to pick colors/options exactly how you want this time as well as get all the LCI benefits....do it! The next gen 5 might be a mess for a while anyway.
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  #102  
Old 02-09-2014, 05:50 PM
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Yeah, you're right. I don't see anything topping the value and package of the F10 anytime soon anyway. A white LCI M Sport with Mocha Nappa might be enough variation for me. Plus, yeah I'd never get a first year 5er, BMW ALWAYS makes key changes after the first year that renders the first (and sometimes even second) model years undesirable.

Plus, maybe there'll be some added goodies for 2015.
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  #103  
Old 02-09-2014, 08:17 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Yeah, you're right. I don't see anything topping the value and package of the F10 anytime soon anyway. A white LCI M Sport with Mocha Nappa might be enough variation for me. Plus, yeah I'd never get a first year 5er, BMW ALWAYS makes key changes after the first year that renders the first (and sometimes even second) model years undesirable.

Plus, maybe there'll be some added goodies for 2015.
Or go Panamera. You don't seem to be bothered about HP so you could look at a Panamera V6 which isn't that far off a Ghibli in price.


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  #104  
Old 02-09-2014, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Or go Panamera. You don't seem to be bothered about HP so you could look at a Panamera V6 which isn't that far off a Ghibli in price.


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Haven't driven the new Panamera apparent TT V6, but I drove the N/A V6 and it was a dog, lethargic, and overall I felt it was inferior to my 535i to my liking and overall drive characteristics related to powertrain.

I considered a Panamera before, and although I do love some, I like designs that always look good can be considered timeless, and the Panny is a little too awkward and "sometimes hot sometimes ugly" for me to ever commit to it. Also, it's way too big. I think I for the first time ever am looking to hopefully get something smaller next, though it gets difficult as cars keep getting bigger and I'm not into "small" or compact cars that aren't pushing onto Exotic level. The Ghibli is bigger than the F10 which already presents a problem there.
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  #105  
Old 02-10-2014, 03:59 AM
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Anyone else find it odd that there isn't ONE review (that I could find, and I've searched the depths of Googledome) pitting a 5 Series and Ghibli together? Maserati clearly stated that they more or less benchmarked the 5 Series (more-so they said they're hoping to take some of the 5 Series clientele, actually) so I'm surprised their isn't a review out.

IMO, they are bar none the two best looking models in this segment. The 5er being the timeless always-good, well balanced model and the Ghibli being the more awkward and polarizing at time, but most exotic/different looking car in class. I REALLY would love to see pictures of an LCI M Sport next to a Ghibli on anything but those hideous base wheels to see how these designs stand up to each other when facing off.
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  #106  
Old 02-10-2014, 04:58 AM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Anyone else find it odd that there isn't ONE review (that I could find, and I've searched the depths of Googledome) pitting a 5 Series and Ghibli together? Maserati clearly stated that they more or less benchmarked the 5 Series (more-so they said they're hoping to take some of the 5 Series clientele, actually) so I'm surprised their isn't a review out.

IMO, they are bar none the two best looking models in this segment. The 5er being the timeless always-good, well balanced model and the Ghibli being the more awkward and polarizing at time, but most exotic/different looking car in class. I REALLY would love to see pictures of an LCI M Sport next to a Ghibli on anything but those hideous base wheels to see how these designs stand up to each other when facing off.
Hopefully Roman and Nathan will do so
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  #107  
Old 02-10-2014, 06:19 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is online now
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Haven't driven the new Panamera apparent TT V6, but I drove the N/A V6 and it was a dog, lethargic, and overall I felt it was inferior to my 535i to my liking and overall drive characteristics related to powertrain.

I considered a Panamera before, and although I do love some, I like designs that always look good can be considered timeless, and the Panny is a little too awkward and "sometimes hot sometimes ugly" for me to ever commit to it. Also, it's way too big. I think I for the first time ever am looking to hopefully get something smaller next, though it gets difficult as cars keep getting bigger and I'm not into "small" or compact cars that aren't pushing onto Exotic level. The Ghibli is bigger than the F10 which already presents a problem there.
The TT v6 panny replaced the v8 while the base v6 remains the same. Whenever I feel annoyed with BMWs pricing I just take a look at Porsche's website.

I agree the Panamera is more polarizing but it seems to hold its value surprisingly well. When it came out I thought it would depreciate like a rock - no such luck (I wouldn't be adverse to picking up a cpo v8 model if it were in the 40s). But - the Panamera has a real presence to it up close. And it oozes build quality - more so than the f10.

There's a Maserati dealer a few blocks away from me so of course I walk by whenever possible (had a "crush" on the GT for a long time). The Ghibli doesn't have the same presence about it somehow. The paint and the body gaps arent at the same level. I don't think Id be willing to put up with paying more for it or dealing with potential quality issues. If I were going to spend more than f10 money on a 4 door I think it would have to be on a panamera.


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  #108  
Old 02-10-2014, 06:32 AM
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The TT v6 panny replaced the v8 while the base v6 remains the same. Whenever I feel annoyed with BMWs pricing I just take a look at Porsche's website.

I agree the Panamera is more polarizing but it seems to hold its value surprisingly well. When it came out I thought it would depreciate like a rock - no such luck (I wouldn't be adverse to picking up a cpo v8 model if it were in the 40s). But - the Panamera has a real presence to it up close. And it oozes build quality - more so than the f10.

There's a Maserati dealer a few blocks away from me so of course I walk by whenever possible (had a "crush" on the GT for a long time). The Ghibli doesn't have the same presence about it somehow. The paint and the body gaps arent at the same level. I don't think Id be willing to put up with paying more for it or dealing with potential quality issues. If I were going to spend more than f10 money on a 4 door I think it would have to be on a panamera.


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Oh, that's lame. I thought the TT V6 was a replacement for the Base model. I'm not a power junkie as I don't need high HP (my 535i is already overpowered for my location) but I love how responsive and torque heavy, and just simply efficient the drivetrain on my car feels. The Base Panamera feels a good 10 years behind on that front, lethargic, whiny, noisy in an unattractive way (i.e doesn't make the glorious sounds you hear from the BMW Inline 6 powerplant), etc.

I agree, presence is unmatched (though that can swing two ways, sometimes it looks commanding and exotic and sometimes just ugly and awkward). Build quality is great, the chassis feels bomb proof, the steering is more connected than the F10's, etc. However, as an entire package, I prefer the F10, especially considering I don't think the Panny fundamentally commands the price premium over it when it comes to my own preferences and needs.

I'm spoiled by how great the F10 always looks, it's just always in its element. It does this by being a design that doesn't try too hard to get people to look at it. The Panny does the opposite, for better and worser I guess, depending on the element you see it in (which makes all the difference).

Good points about the Masers panel gaps and details. That's the problem I'm having with that car, it is an inferior product to the most basic F10. I gotta be honest with myself, if I got it, I'd get it for only 3 reasons: Badge cachet/exclusivity/uniqueness, gloriously Ferrari-esque burbly sound (if BMW allowed the N55 to make more noise, I wouldn't have to even care about that so much from the Ghibli), and handling, which is purportedly best in class perhaps. I also like the design SOMETIMES, but in that Panamera way where sometimes it looks good, sometimes not so much. Though I like the design better than the Panny as I think it looks more balanced to put it simply. It kind of sits in between the Panny and F10 there (awkward yet exotic and eye catching VS conservative, dynamically balanced and elegantly timeless).

All other respects of the Ghibli (which aren't the 3 I listed) will most probably (or certainly) be of inferiority to the F10, from every switch, to panel gaps, to underlying materials, paint, rattles (I'd guess), etc.
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  #109  
Old 02-10-2014, 07:23 AM
stevelup stevelup is offline
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I test drove a Ghibli D a couple of weeks ago. I was immensely unimpressed I'm afraid.

Let's start with the pro (yes, only one for me):
- It looks stunning from the outside.

The cons:
- Cheap nasty materials all over the interior. Bits of plastic everywhere, and it's not even nice plastic. Rattly hollow sound when you tap it.
- Nav system is truly horrendous. It is several generations (and that's being generous) behind BMW and Audi.
- Engine sounded horrible (yes, it was the Diesel so I wasn't expecting miracles).
- Every single piece of switchgear felt cheap and flimsy.
- Audio system was an absolute embarrassment, so went and sat in a Quattroporte with the Bowers and Wilkins system. Even the much more expensive Quattroporte rattled at less than 50% volume!

The biggest problem for me was the options list. Here in the UK every single minor option is dependent on another expensive option or pack.

This meant that I was looking at 58000 ($95000) just to get 19" wheels, adaptive headlights, metallic paint, upgraded audio and red leather. Insane.

A real shame, but not surprising I guess...
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  #110  
Old 02-10-2014, 08:33 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Oh, that's lame. I thought the TT V6 was a replacement for the Base model. I'm not a power junkie as I don't need high HP (my 535i is already overpowered for my location) but I love how responsive and torque heavy, and just simply efficient the drivetrain on my car feels. The Base Panamera feels a good 10 years behind on that front, lethargic, whiny, noisy in an unattractive way (i.e doesn't make the glorious sounds you hear from the BMW Inline 6 powerplant), etc.

I agree, presence is unmatched (though that can swing two ways, sometimes it looks commanding and exotic and sometimes just ugly and awkward). Build quality is great, the chassis feels bomb proof, the steering is more connected than the F10's, etc. However, as an entire package, I prefer the F10, especially considering I don't think the Panny fundamentally commands the price premium over it when it comes to my own preferences and needs.

I'm spoiled by how great the F10 always looks, it's just always in its element. It does this by being a design that doesn't try too hard to get people to look at it. The Panny does the opposite, for better and worser I guess, depending on the element you see it in (which makes all the difference).

Good points about the Masers panel gaps and details. That's the problem I'm having with that car, it is an inferior product to the most basic F10. I gotta be honest with myself, if I got it, I'd get it for only 3 reasons: Badge cachet/exclusivity/uniqueness, gloriously Ferrari-esque burbly sound (if BMW allowed the N55 to make more noise, I wouldn't have to even care about that so much from the Ghibli), and handling, which is purportedly best in class perhaps. I also like the design SOMETIMES, but in that Panamera way where sometimes it looks good, sometimes not so much. Though I like the design better than the Panny as I think it looks more balanced to put it simply. It kind of sits in between the Panny and F10 there (awkward yet exotic and eye catching VS conservative, dynamically balanced and elegantly timeless).

All other respects of the Ghibli (which aren't the 3 I listed) will most probably (or certainly) be of inferiority to the F10, from every switch, to panel gaps, to underlying materials, paint, rattles (I'd guess), etc.
Yeah, the base V6 Panamera gives you 320 level performance at a loaded 550 price. Not that BMW is always the best price/performance value but Porsche really rubs your face in it. The fact that the V6 (few V6s do IMO) doesn't even sound good is just a nail in that coffin. For me it would be Panny V8 or bust.

Anyway it seems like a 640 Gran Coupe is tailor-made for you, no? All the stuff you like about the F10 with a little more style and exclusivity. You're not a power junkie so the 640 will be fine vs the 650 or M6. I think maybe you've explained why you're not considering it before, but I don't remember-- since it seems to be nearly perfect for you. Haven't looked but I'm sure BMW makes a performance exhaust to give you a little more of the burble/pop type of experience. If not, I'm sure a high end aftermarket vendor like Akropovic or Dinan would fit the bill. You'd still spend less than on a Ghibli or Panny.
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  #111  
Old 02-10-2014, 09:27 AM
GXAlan GXAlan is offline
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The one thing that keeps me out of a 6GC is that there is no power trunk Maybe for 2015.
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  #112  
Old 02-10-2014, 09:37 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is online now
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The one thing that keeps me out of a 6GC is that there is no power trunk Maybe for 2015.
That requirement should be a reminder that the Maserati won't work for you--you're too detail oriented for it and would find way too many issues to be satisfied with it. I'm very picky about cars and options too so I get it -an Italian car is probably not for me either.

Regarding the power trunk - I actually don't like it or the soft close doors because the f10 gives off such nice "thunk" sounds when you close it manually (im sure the 6 is the same). Plus the sound of the trunk closing motor sounds cheap to me. Plus for 2014 i think they added a beeping noise when closing that would annoy me. How's that for details?! Anyway - maybe that helps you see that feature differently.

Is that really your only issue with the 6gc?


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  #113  
Old 02-14-2014, 10:34 AM
shogunman shogunman is online now
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The one thing that keeps me out of a 6GC is that there is no power trunk Maybe for 2015.
I have a MY 2013 640iGC with sport package and the car is amazing. It does not have a power trunk because the reverse camera sits in the roundel and while reversing, it opens up (tilts out). Due to design, the 6ers don't have any other covered area to put the rear view camera at. This is the same place where the electric motor for the power trunk is usually.

The power trunk should not stop you from getting the 6GC if you like everything else (looks, 4+1 seating, cost etc).

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  #114  
Old 02-15-2014, 05:33 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelup View Post
I test drove a Ghibli D a couple of weeks ago. I was immensely unimpressed I'm afraid.

Let's start with the pro (yes, only one for me):
- It looks stunning from the outside.

The cons:
- Cheap nasty materials all over the interior. Bits of plastic everywhere, and it's not even nice plastic. Rattly hollow sound when you tap it.
- Nav system is truly horrendous. It is several generations (and that's being generous) behind BMW and Audi.
- Engine sounded horrible (yes, it was the Diesel so I wasn't expecting miracles).
- Every single piece of switchgear felt cheap and flimsy.
- Audio system was an absolute embarrassment, so went and sat in a Quattroporte with the Bowers and Wilkins system. Even the much more expensive Quattroporte rattled at less than 50% volume!

The biggest problem for me was the options list. Here in the UK every single minor option is dependent on another expensive option or pack.

This meant that I was looking at 58000 ($95000) just to get 19" wheels, adaptive headlights, metallic paint, upgraded audio and red leather. Insane.

A real shame, but not surprising I guess...
This seems to be the general consensus indeed. Though if you had a gasser I'm sure you would have had 2 pro's (including engine sound).

.... And I FINALLY found an article comparing the two! They're both Diesels which sucks, but you can see the two designs together. IMO they're the two most beautiful Sedans on the road, for very different reasons (Maser is all aggression and in-your-face while the F10 is more smooth and timeless). The Maser looks its best at the front, while the rear looks pretty bland, especially next to the F10's much more beautiful rear. To me, the 5 Series' interior looks easily a class above, which bothers me about the Ghibli. The Ghibli does look really good, though I wonder how all those angular shapes will age (always been a fan of smooth shapes, like the current 5 Series', due to lasting ability on the eyes).

The 5 Series took the win, btw.





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Last edited by K-A; 02-15-2014 at 05:44 AM.
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  #115  
Old 02-15-2014, 06:06 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is online now
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Maserati has 3 legs to stand on: sound/exclusivity/design. Put a diesel in it and it loses one of its main advantages.

Hard not to see Chrysler 300 in that interior.


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  #116  
Old 02-15-2014, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bmw325 View Post
Maserati has 3 legs to stand on: sound/exclusivity/design. Put a diesel in it and it loses one of its main advantages.

Hard not to see Chrysler 300 in that interior.


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Exactly. And it really hurts when you especially sit in it, a "Maserati", look and feel around and realize that your subconscious can't help but think that are really ARE in a Chrysler 300.
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  #117  
Old 02-15-2014, 08:54 AM
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Keyser Soze Keyser Soze is offline
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Hell, I've been looking at new Dodge Ram's and it's the same interior design, buttons, gauges too.....badass in a truck - but not in a sport/luxury car. The 5 just oozes class and dignity while the Mas wants to punch you in the face and screams "look at me dammit" I guess I'm boring car wise and prefer stealthy over bling.
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  #118  
Old 02-15-2014, 09:11 AM
neilsarkar neilsarkar is offline
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Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
Hell, I've been looking at new Dodge Ram's and it's the same interior design, buttons, gauges too.....badass in a truck - but not in a sport/luxury car.
One good thing about Benz and Bimmer is that they do not share interior parts, switch-gears etc with inferior brands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
The 5 just oozes class and dignity while the Mas wants to punch you in the face and screams "look at me dammit" I guess I'm boring car wise and prefer stealthy over bling.
Me too, and the 5er is the king of understated elegance.
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  #119  
Old 02-16-2014, 12:42 PM
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Finally saw a Ghibli on the road in a boring dark grey color. Yawn. It sounded fantastic though
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  #120  
Old 02-27-2014, 06:19 AM
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Thoroughly checked out a Ghibli again today. Had a whole long thing written out but it got erased accidentally. I'll just break it down in two ways: It's pretty much garbage, a detail freak like me would see waay too far past the badge or even the drive if it's as sporty as it's supposed to be. I honestly didn't even want to drive it. Also, the headroom is more limited than the F10. Verdict: Nope, nexxxxt.
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  #121  
Old 02-27-2014, 07:05 AM
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badblack550xi badblack550xi is offline
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Saw Ghibli parked by my complex today... never liked 4 door Maserati and don't like it now.... car did not impress me at all.
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  #122  
Old 03-12-2014, 01:33 PM
RDL53 RDL53 is offline
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Beautiful car, this will be my replacement for my 300C when the times comes.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/12/2...-review-video/

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  #123  
Old 03-12-2014, 01:39 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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again...
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  #124  
Old 03-13-2014, 04:46 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Beautiful car, this will be my replacement for my 300C when the times comes.



http://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/12/2...-review-video/




Yes it is the perfect car to replace a Chrysler 300C. Hopefully Hertz will do the same in the rental fleet.


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  #125  
Old 03-13-2014, 05:05 PM
RDL53 RDL53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Yes it is the perfect car to replace a Chrysler 300C. Hopefully Hertz will do the same in the rental fleet.


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Say what you want jumpsuit but my 2011 300C has 78,000 miles of trouble free and comfortable driving. My job is sales and I am constantly driving everyday and the Hemi is no disappointment. Gas mileage at highway is a consistent 26mpg because of the MDS and came outfitted with non run flat to boot.
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2013 550i M-Sport
ED pickup 6.25.2013
ED drop off-Munich 7.8.2013
Pick up at dealer 8.24.2013
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bmw 5 series, bmw mid-sized sedan, maserati, maserati ghibli


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