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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 10-26-2013, 05:15 PM
Truvor Truvor is offline
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Question 328i or 335i that is the question

I apologize for bringing this up again, but here is another 328 vs 335 toss-up.

I'm looking at two 2011 3-series sedans: 328i and 335i. Both have xDrive, premium package, and tush warmers. Both have around 24Kmi on the odometer and priced below KBB retail. The 335i is ~$2.5K more plus BMW will cover the first two monthly payments only for their 328's. Still not a major price difference.

The 328i is a local off-lease with CPO through 12/17. The 335i has CPO through 12/16 and a bit more complicated history. It's a recent trade-in but the dealer has only limited records for it (or so he says) because the car was originally sold in another state. As a "commercial vehicle"....probably just registered to a business.

335 is wickedly fast and fun to drive (even with xDrive). My main concern is its long-term reliability, especially when the remaining factory warranty runs out (one year earlier than for the 328). I don't have much experience with BMW CPO, but I've heard that many dealers try to wiggle out and make you pay for every little thing by claiming that it's not covered. If the turbo breaks down it won't a little thing either. On the other hand the N55 is supposed to be more reliable than its twin-turbo predecessor...????.

Either car would be used for a relatively short commute in moderate to heavy traffic and occasionally for back road fun.

What do you guys think? Any additional pro's and con's I should consider?
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2013, 06:10 PM
Ilovemycar Ilovemycar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truvor View Post
Either car would be used for a relatively short commute in moderate to heavy traffic and occasionally for back road fun.
This point makes the needle move a little more toward the 328i. It has just about become expected for us turbo owners to expect to pony up for a walnut shell blasting of the intake valves, and my impression is that some knowledgeable people here thinks this will happen more quickly and to greater extent with this type of driving, much of it when the car has not reached optimal operating temperature. It is not a cheap procedure.

I expect my turbos to last a long time, but when one of them does fail it will totally suck. But it is very fun to accelerate very quickly, as I got to do a few times today already. I expect walnuts in my relatively near future, whether I'm crazy enough to try DIY or if I hire an indy.

Otherwise, maintenance costs seem pretty similar to me. Recommended interval for plugs is at least twice as often, but that's very little money IMO (335i you pay only $69 more for the first 90k miles). What I do wonder about now is how much more maintenance there is with X drive vs 2wd. My diff oil was less than $40, my MT fluid was only $24. Oh, lemme guess, I wonder if X drive fluids are also "lifetime"...

If you're going X drive, can we assume you are going with two sets of tires/wheels? If not, you would probably get better performance in each season with 2wd with dedicated summers/winters. Sayin' just in case.
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2013, 06:19 PM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovemycar View Post
This point makes the needle move a little more toward the 328i. It has just about become expected for us turbo owners to expect to pony up for a walnut shell blasting of the intake valves, and my impression is that some knowledgeable people here thinks this will happen more quickly and to greater extent with this type of driving, much of it when the car has not reached optimal operating temperature. It is not a cheap procedure.
$485 every 50,000 miles. Meh.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovemycar View Post
Otherwise, maintenance costs seem pretty similar to me. Recommended interval for plugs is at least twice as often, but that's very little money IMO (335i you pay only $69 more for the first 90k miles). What I do wonder about now is how much more maintenance there is with X drive vs 2wd. My diff oil was less than $40, my MT fluid was only $24. Oh, lemme guess, I wonder if X drive fluids are also "lifetime"...
A bit more. Front and rear differentials (with the rear having no drain plug) plus the transfer case fluid every 30k. Say $300 at the dealer, after he tells you the fluids ARE lifetime.

So, another $100 every 10,000 miles. Add it to the walnut shell blast, and you get an extra $2000 over 100,000 miles. Less than the adder you paid for the N54.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovemycar View Post
If you're going X drive, can we assume you are going with two sets of tires/wheels? If not, you would probably get better performance in each season with 2wd with dedicated summers/winters. Sayin' just in case.
Even with xDrive, winter tires are the way to go.
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Prior 33 years of cars: 1967 BelAir wagon / 1968 LeMans Tempest / 1970 Mustang Mach 1 / 1972 El Dorado / 1978 Corvette (kept until first Bronco) / 1981 Subaru GL wagon AWD / 1983 s10 Blazer 4x4 (big mistake) / 1985 Bronco 4x4 / 1996 Bronco 4x4 / 2004 Passat 4motion

Last edited by Zooks527; 10-26-2013 at 06:21 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-26-2013, 06:30 PM
Ilovemycar Ilovemycar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post
$485 every 50,000 miles. Meh.
I will be doing it more often, I don't do long commutes, etc, I probably am getting build up rather quickly I fear. Maybe $485 isn't all that bad in the world of BMW maintenance, but with my recent foray into DIY fluid changes, I was very surprised at how little the stuff cost (outside of tools). So right now at this moment, $485 looks kind of big to me, but of course I haven't had issue yet with turbo, clutch, coils, water pump... I'll count myself lucky.

Quote:
A bit more. Front and rear differentials (with the rear having no drain plug) plus the transfer case fluid every 30k. Say $300 at the dealer, after he tells you the fluids ARE lifetime.

So, another $100 every 10,000 miles. Add it to the walnut shell blast, and you get an extra $2000 over 100,000 miles. Less than the adder you paid for the N54.
Thanks.

Quote:
Even with xDrive, winter tires are the way to go.
I would definitely agree.
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2013, 09:24 PM
Truvor Truvor is offline
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Thanks for your input. It really does help.

I've done some back-sleeve calculations with the numbers you provided and KBB trade-in values for 2007 3-series (just to see where I'm going to be in 4-5 years from now) and it looks like the 335i is going to cost me about 2.5-3.5K more over this period. IF.... nothing goes seriously wrong with its turbos. Particularly when the factory+CPO warranty runs out, which will happen one year earlier for this particular car.

Of course, it's hard to stay absolutely rational when you are flying from 0 to 60 in under 5 sec...The sober voice inside tells me that the thrill of acceleration will be gone sooner or later, but the pain of paying $$$$ to the dealer to fix the finicky motor will remain. Being too rational will put you behind the wheel of a Lexus, but I think 328 should provide a good balance between fun and practicality.

Yes, winter tires are a must in this climate IMO, albeit many local folks drive around with all-seasons, thinking that 4x4 is going to save them.... I think I will put winters on the stock 17" wheels that come with either car and buy a set of 18" rims and summer tires in the spring.

Is it possible to sell the dreadful run-flats on e-bay or Craigslist? They should fit some other cars too, don't they?
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  #6  
Old 10-26-2013, 10:10 PM
thrush40 thrush40 is offline
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I don't think you'll be displeased either way. In my 328xi coupe, I am not the fasted off the line by a long stretch. Is that what you want? Either car will give you fantastic driving experience. You'll get the seductive low end torque with the 335. It's turbos vs NA. For street driving both have their joyful place.

Handling is everything. 0 to 60, overrated for the street IMHO. Sure, give me some decent torque, but when I'm pushing through the gears, revving up high is a blast.

Are you looking at a MT or auto?

Honesty, if you're in the auto camp, I'd say get the 335 for your kicks. If you're in the MT camp, and know what the race line is, then a 328 is more than enough.

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  #7  
Old 10-26-2013, 10:27 PM
hman1 hman1 is offline
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The 335 is a beast! You can't go wrong with it.

However, I just got a 2011 328xi MT and as I learn how to drive it properly, I'm realizing that it is a lot of car for daily driving. Keep the revs up and it kicks ass! The NA Inline 6 is more than enough for spirited driving.

If I was willing to spend more, I would have purchased a 335, but the 328 is pretty awesome in it's own right. You need a MT, though. The 335 is probably good with an AT, but the 328 is not as good. The 328 begs for a MT.

H
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2013, 11:58 PM
Miller335 Miller335 is offline
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I ended up with the 335 not for the factory power vs. the 328 but for the headroom the engine has.

That was a huge part of my buying decision.
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2013, 03:41 AM
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B/\/\W B/\/\W is offline
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Get your hands on a Euro 330, they were made right up until the end. Fills the gaps better between 328 (called 325 in Europe) and the 335.
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2013, 05:50 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovemycar View Post
I will be doing it more often, I don't do long commutes, etc, I probably am getting build up rather quickly I fear. Maybe $485 isn't all that bad in the world of BMW maintenance, but with my recent foray into DIY fluid changes, I was very surprised at how little the stuff cost (outside of tools). So right now at this moment, $485 looks kind of big to me, but of course I haven't had issue yet with turbo, clutch, coils, water pump... I'll count myself lucky.
Yeah, I'm at 105k miles now, and I'm getting squirrelly about the water pump. And even though I've got a repair fund set aside, I'd really prefer to have the turbos go long (at 175k on the turbo in the Passat at the moment).
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Prior 33 years of cars: 1967 BelAir wagon / 1968 LeMans Tempest / 1970 Mustang Mach 1 / 1972 El Dorado / 1978 Corvette (kept until first Bronco) / 1981 Subaru GL wagon AWD / 1983 s10 Blazer 4x4 (big mistake) / 1985 Bronco 4x4 / 1996 Bronco 4x4 / 2004 Passat 4motion
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  #11  
Old 10-27-2013, 11:45 AM
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Chop362 Chop362 is offline
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Talking X Drives I would choose a 328 if not 335 all the way all day....Different animal altogether.
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  #12  
Old 10-27-2013, 09:50 PM
Truvor Truvor is offline
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I'm still undecided (and I hate it!), but will have to choose one soon. If I could afford to buy both, I would wait for the new M3 instead

To sum up your posts so far:

335
Pro: brutally fast and a blast to drive
Con: a high maintenance toy and probably overkill for daily driving unless you live close to an autobahn.

328
Pro: generally more dependable and reasonably fast as MT/RWD.
Con: its full potential cannot be realized with the xDrive/auto combo

The reason for going with xDrive is its superior traction on slippery roads. I used to drive a WRX and it was awesome in winter. Also, my driveway is quite steep and the extra ground clearance of xDrive should help too. As for auto, ...my wife will not drive anything with MT. For her it's not worth the effort. I certainly disagree, but we all have to compromise sometimes.
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  #13  
Old 10-27-2013, 11:31 PM
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bighorns bighorns is online now
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Turbos are warrantied to 8 years, 82,000 miles, on N54, but it looks like 2011 models are N55, which seem to have avoided the turbo issues.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=639397
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  #14  
Old 10-28-2013, 09:07 AM
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need4speed need4speed is offline
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Go with the 335. I have never heard anyone say, "My car is just too fast, I can't stand it". N4S
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  #15  
Old 10-28-2013, 09:42 AM
Truvor Truvor is offline
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Yeah, that's my feeling too. However, there is a burning question: would you keep a 335 beyond its CPO expiration date???? If yes, for how long?

For this particular vehicle it's already in 12/16. If I have to sell by then, it would be a waste of money and time IMO. Already because I'm going to buy winter tires and an extra set of 18" wheel/tires for summer. Plus the hassle of searching and negotiating for another vehicle. Some people enjoy the process, but I don't. I might as well lease a new 335 then, which I would never do.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:54 AM
surfcity335i surfcity335i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truvor View Post
Yeah, that's my feeling too. However, there is a burning question: would you keep a 335 beyond its CPO expiration date???? If yes, for how long?

For this particular vehicle it's already in 12/16. If I have to sell by then, it would be a waste of money and time IMO. Already because I'm going to buy winter tires and an extra set of 18" wheel/tires for summer. Plus the hassle of searching and negotiating for another vehicle. Some people enjoy the process, but I don't. I might as well lease a new 335 then, which I would never do.
335. You will always envy the twin tailpipes and everything else that goes with them if you go 328.
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  #17  
Old 10-28-2013, 10:38 AM
Truvor Truvor is offline
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One can always envy something, there is no limit to where it can get you. Suppose I'm driving a 335i and the guy in the next lane is passing me in his shiny M3 or RS4....Darn! What was I thinking!
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:41 AM
surfcity335i surfcity335i is offline
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Quote:
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One can always envy something, there is no limit to where it can get you. Suppose I'm driving a 335i and the guy in the next lane is passing me in his shiny M3 or RS4....Darn! What was I thinking!
No doubt about that. But the higher up the food chain you go, the less opportunities for regret. When I had my E39 530 I wished I had ponied up for the 540. But when the difference in price is only a couple grand, I think the decision is easier.

Last edited by surfcity335i; 10-28-2013 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:07 AM
Truvor Truvor is offline
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Well, it's not so much about what I pay now, which is not that different between the 335 and 328. It's about what will I do in 3 years from now when the 335 has no warranty any more. My idea is to buy cars when they depreciated enough to make sense, but still have a plenty of usable life in them. Then I drive them for about 4-5 years and sell before them turn into junk and a money drain. It could be different with a bimmer, particularly with a tricky one, like 335. I've done some body work in the past and replaced basic things like blowers, door motors, filters, brakes and other minor stuff like this. However, I'm sure I won't be able to handle any serious BMW repairs myself. Plus I don't have much time for doing DIY stuff anymore. That's why I want to see if people are keeping their 335's beyond the CPO warranty.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:34 AM
Miller335 Miller335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truvor View Post
One can always envy something, there is no limit to where it can get you. Suppose I'm driving a 335i and the guy in the next lane is passing me in his shiny M3 or RS4....Darn! What was I thinking!

You'll tell yourself you have more engine headroom then that shiny M3 with just a few K in upgrades.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:00 PM
surfcity335i surfcity335i is offline
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That's why I want to see if people are keeping their 335's beyond the CPO warranty.
The answer to that question is a definite NO for me!
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  #22  
Old 10-28-2013, 12:26 PM
53K 53K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truvor View Post
Well, it's not so much about what I pay now, which is not that different between the 335 and 328. It's about what will I do in 3 years from now when the 335 has no warranty any more. My idea is to buy cars when they depreciated enough to make sense, but still have a plenty of usable life in them. Then I drive them for about 4-5 years and sell before them turn into junk and a money drain. It could be different with a bimmer, particularly with a tricky one, like 335. I've done some body work in the past and replaced basic things like blowers, door motors, filters, brakes and other minor stuff like this. However, I'm sure I won't be able to handle any serious BMW repairs myself. Plus I don't have much time for doing DIY stuff anymore. That's why I want to see if people are keeping their 335's beyond the CPO warranty.
This sounds like an answer to yourself. If you plan to keep this car for a while after warranty and you are concerned about reliability (and don't care about 335's power), then 328 will be the logical choice. MT will be the way to go with 328 as others said.

To me, having the low end torque of 335 makes a much better DD. I plan to sell mine after CPO runs out.

Last edited by 53K; 10-28-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:08 PM
Truvor Truvor is offline
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Thank you guys. Now it makes sense to me now. So here is my strategy:

Plan A: Find another 335 with the longest available CPO within the same price range, drive it hard, and sell right after (or just before) CPO runs out.

Plan B: If can't find a 335 that satisfies these criteria, I will get the aforementioned 328xi and enjoy it quietly for a little longer....

Prince John: Tell everyone that when the day is out we shall have a wedding. Or a hanging. Either way, we're gonna have a lot of fun, huh?
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:12 PM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truvor View Post
Yeah, that's my feeling too. However, there is a burning question: would you keep a 335 beyond its CPO expiration date???? If yes, for how long?
My warranty expired 30 months and 55,000 miles ago. Still loving the car.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:12 PM
Miller335 Miller335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truvor View Post
Thank you guys. Now it makes sense to me now. So here is my strategy:

Plan A: Find another 335 with the longest available CPO within the same price range, drive it hard, and sell right after (or just before) CPO runs out.

Plan B: If can't find a 335 that satisfies these criteria, I will get the aforementioned 328xi and enjoy it quietly for a little longer....

Prince John: Tell everyone that when the day is out we shall have a wedding. Or a hanging. Either way, we're gonna have a lot of fun, huh?
Why not go with a dealer warranty? If the miles are low the warranty won't be very expensive.
My warranty covers almost everything a cpo does (2007 E92 23k miles) but it's good until 2018 and/or 83k.

Fully transferable and can be cancelled at any point and pro rated out. $2.2k at the time of purchasing car.
Warranty is through Nissian North America and even fully covers turbos.

Last edited by Miller335; 10-28-2013 at 01:14 PM.
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