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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 10-26-2013, 04:59 PM
hman1 hman1 is offline
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Shifting habits are hard to break

I've had my 2011 328xi for 2 weeks. I've had a hard time with the clutch/gearbox and figuring out how to best work them. I couln't fathom why this MT is considered among the best. I was becoming frustrated.

I've been thinking about it a lot. For the past 11 years I've been driving VW/Audi turbo 4's. in those cars, you shift at low RPMs as the max torque comes on so early. I've been shifting the 328 at the same RPMs and it has been maddening.

Today, I drove 30 miles and back on a two lane, twisty, hilly road (25a for the Long Islanders on the site) and I let the car rev to 3000+ before shifting. Everything was much smoother and more correct feeling. The car felt much faster and more powerful as well.

Now, I think back to the 3 other naturally aspirated cars I had and I remember revving to well over 3k rpm on them as well.

I feel so stupid, but I'm glad it only took me 2 weeks to figure it out.

H
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2013, 05:15 PM
Ilovemycar Ilovemycar is offline
wooohooo
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Mein Auto: '08 335i coupe 6MT sport
Did you ever run searches for the CDV delete like I advised in the other thread you started? Some here think it doesn't change much, but there are at least as many that feel it completely changes the shifting and in a good way, not subtle at all, noticeable immediately from very first shift. It is a one way valve that delays engagement. The delete is actually the same CDV just with the innards removed. If you don't like it, it's just as easily reversible.
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2013, 05:44 PM
hman1 hman1 is offline
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I did, but I don't like messing with factory stuff. I'm a bit of a goody two shoes.

H
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  #4  
Old 10-26-2013, 05:51 PM
Ilovemycar Ilovemycar is offline
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Location: CA
 
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Mein Auto: '08 335i coupe 6MT sport
I can respect that attitude.

However, if I was a betting man, I would bet that with the countless miles you've driven with a MT, you've never had a delay valve with any of them.

I can assure you a lot of us that are crazy about BMW MT wouldn't quite feel that way if we still had the CDV. I actually took a while to do mine, thinking along similar lines, and my only regret when I did it was that I waited so long and didn't do it sooner, from shift #1, I still vividly recall it in fact.
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2013, 06:50 PM
hman1 hman1 is offline
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It's only been two weeks. Maybe in a little while.

You are right about the countless miles. I have only owned MTs since '88, when I was 20. I average about 15k miles per year; 375,000 miles of MTs.

H
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  #6  
Old 10-26-2013, 08:03 PM
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bocabimmer bocabimmer is offline
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Shifting habits are hard to break

Quote:
Originally Posted by hman1 View Post
I did, but I don't like messing with factory stuff. I'm a bit of a goody two shoes.

H
I am the same way. Consider this: 1) The "guts" of this valve are less than the size of a dime and could be replaced. It's not like is heart surgery. 2) Your previous cars probably didn't have one, as mentioned. 3) It's so worth it.


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  #7  
Old 10-26-2013, 09:05 PM
hman1 hman1 is offline
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Please shoot me a link that shows how to do it. I'm not a mechanic. I trust your opinions.

Will it mess up my warranty?

H
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2013, 09:18 PM
thrush40 thrush40 is offline
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CDV delete all the way!!! And shift above 3000 or 3500.

CDV delete is cheap and a non invasive, easily reversible modification. If driving is your pleasure, get that stupid valve out of there! You will not regret it. But sorry, it won't make you a rebel. You'll still be a goody two shoes, just having a big more fun behind the wheel.
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  #9  
Old 10-26-2013, 09:28 PM
hman1 hman1 is offline
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How do I do it?
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2013, 10:28 PM
Ilovemycar Ilovemycar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hman1 View Post
Please shoot me a link that shows how to do it. I'm not a mechanic. I trust your opinions.

Will it mess up my warranty?

H
Quote:
Originally Posted by hman1 View Post
How do I do it?
If you're not accustomed to doing your own maintenance, I don't know that I'd DIY this as your first. It could mess up your warranty if you destroyed your transmission, and that they found it there, and that you didn't swap it back out before they got to see it. But then again, maybe they wouldn't see it (?) because a modified one looks totally identical from the outside. I don't know what other failure could possibly be faulted with this mod.

If you hire an indy, I expect somewhere around the $40-60 range for half hr of work. Some believe it is an absolute requirement that the clutch must be bled as there is no way that you can stop air from being introduced, but the owner of the biggest and most famous BMW indy shop near me was almost getting annoyed with me as I pressed this issue, and he said if I felt any difference at all, he'll do it. The pedal felt totally the same, he just pinched it off while replacing so to speak. (BTW, he tossed the CDV almost violently into the corner with disgust haha he hates the things, I said, "no I want to keep it!"...)

Anyway, you can buy the CDV with innards knocked out here like I did.
http://zeckhausen.com/cdv.htm

Or you can buy a new OEM CDV for less than the Zeck, and knock the innards out yourself, something that didn't occur to me until someone here explained it could be done simply.

Or you can take the CDV you have right now, knock its innards out, and not pay a single cent for the mod, except for the DOT 4 brake fluid that is used for the clutch, and btw the OEM brake fluid is only about $4 a bottle.

Here is a DIY. You will see how it accessed; if you can get that far then you can do the much easier job of MT fluid in the future. Two hex bolts, one fill one drain, I believe my last fluid purchase was only $24 (and that was for too much).
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29828

Last edited by Ilovemycar; 10-26-2013 at 10:30 PM.
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  #11  
Old 10-26-2013, 10:39 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hman1 View Post
I think back to the 3 other naturally aspirated cars I had and I remember revving to well over 3k rpm on them as well.

Well, be good to yourself! Shift @ 5K....your Bimmer comes alive....
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  #12  
Old 10-27-2013, 01:37 AM
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B/\/\W B/\/\W is offline
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Mein Auto: '07 E92 330i Manual
Shift at 6.6k and you'll shoot in your pants.

Still can't believe you didn't figure out the torque curve on the first day. All you had to do was hit the pedal!

Having said that it took me a few days to unlearn how I changed gear in my E46 328. The revs dropped so slowly you didn't have to be quick with the clutch and it felt civilised. On my 330, if you are shifting at low revs and/or your foot was only lightly on the accelerator, you have to be really quick bringing up the pedal otherwise the revs have already dropped below the engagement point. Very difficult to unlearn a basic driving habit which perfectly suited all your previous cars, because you have to trust it is the right thing to do. Fine if gunning it though as the engine has much more rotational inertia.
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  #13  
Old 10-27-2013, 07:31 AM
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bocabimmer bocabimmer is offline
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Shifting habits are hard to break

I had my mechanic do it while I was having it serviced. Said it was so easy and quick for him he didn't charge me.

I had the restrictor removed from the OE housing so you can't even tell without cracking it open that it's been modified.


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  #14  
Old 10-27-2013, 08:10 AM
thrush40 thrush40 is offline
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I had an indy shop do mine. I may be alone (on this forum at least) that no replacement unit was put back, no housing used. I've had it at the dealer a few times for routine and cosmetic things, even recently for a full evaluation before my warranty expired. The missing delay valve was never mentioned, neither was it noticed as far as I know.
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  #15  
Old 10-27-2013, 11:08 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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Every car has the sweet spot for shifting. Kind of like a woman. Trial and error to find the spot
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  #16  
Old 10-27-2013, 05:40 PM
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Nordic_Kat Nordic_Kat is offline
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CDV Delete and higher shift point for the sweet spot!

Every car I've ever owned has been an MT. What I immediately found with the 328i is that it liked the higher rev shift point (between 3 and 4K vs 2 and 3K) for a smoother shift.

CDV Delete:
There were a couple of times for me and more than a couple of times for the SO that we killed the car on a dead stop to moving in first gear, and both of us are very versed in manual tranmissions. One day I had the CDV done on the car, - took less than 10 minutes. I never told SO that it had been done (perfect blind study), he has never again killed the car. I had the delete done a year or two into ownership, well inside the warranty as I hit my 4 year mark with only about 28K on the odometer.

Bottom line, for those of us who learned to drive MT's long ago, the Clutch Delay valve can prove to be more annoying than useful. If you have a young driver in the family that you are teaching to drive an MT, the valve may be useful in that it might prevent the clutch from getting unnecessarily burned up.

I don't let valets near my car and my mechanic is well versed in the MT so potential for damage from an inexperienced user is mitigated.

The risk vs reward ratio highly favors reward on this 'mod'.
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Euro Modded|Split Armrest|Rear Foglight Mod|BMW Performance Exhaust|CDV Delete|Shark Fin Antenna Delete|Front Reflector Delete|LUX H8 Angel Eyes|328i|3 Pedals|Das Fahren im Freien| BMWCCA#445793
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  #17  
Old 10-27-2013, 05:49 PM
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Nordic_Kat Nordic_Kat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hman1 View Post
How do I do it?
I watched the tech do it. He literally loosened one panel, pinched off a line, took out the existing valve, replaced it with the 'replacement' valve I provided from Zechausen Racing, buttoned things up.

Done.

If you go back and do the reading, it seems that there is a white stripe on the original valve that is soluble in clutch fluid. If you spend the extra $25 for the Zeckhausen modified valve, you can do the replacement in such a way as to not disturb the white stripes, which goes a long way toward not alerting the dealership techs that a change has been made if they need to poke around under the same underbody panel.

See:
http://zeckhausen.com/cdv.htm

for more information.
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If your sport doesn't put blood, dirt or grease under your fingernails,
then it's just a game.

Euro Modded|Split Armrest|Rear Foglight Mod|BMW Performance Exhaust|CDV Delete|Shark Fin Antenna Delete|Front Reflector Delete|LUX H8 Angel Eyes|328i|3 Pedals|Das Fahren im Freien| BMWCCA#445793
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  #18  
Old 10-28-2013, 10:37 AM
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Vanos4:12PM Vanos4:12PM is offline
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The fun starts around 4500RPM on a 328 when "the VANOS kicks in".

But yeah, these engines are designed to be driven hard: do not be timid in shifting at 4,5,6K RPM. Unlike your previous turbo engines that had more low end torque, the naturally aspirated inline silky smooth I-6 comes alive around 5K RPM. Enjoy the ride.

oh, and for the record: I had my local indy remove the CDV as soon as I got the car back from the motherland. I think it was like $50 for him to do.
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ED - 5.14.10
ED Drop off - 5.22.10
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ED May 14, 2010

Last edited by Vanos4:12PM; 10-28-2013 at 10:40 AM.
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  #19  
Old 10-28-2013, 06:55 PM
hman1 hman1 is offline
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I'll look into removing the CDV.

Meanwhile, I changed my shifting habits (I am shifting well into the high 3k rpms) and the shifts are smoother. I also have a lot more power on tap. The car, while only having 230 HP, feels much faster. It is no drag racer, but when in motion, it is pretty freakin quick.

I really love it!

Thanks to everyone who responded.

H
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