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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 10-29-2013, 02:06 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A B Able Truck View Post
I just read a thread about a N62 engine swap. Be sure your exhaust manifold bolt pattern and bell housing pattern are the same with your new engine. There are a few variations in bolt patterns for different BMW models using the same engine.
Really hope they are the same. It was a 2003 745i and my car was made late 2003, so hopefully they match up

The part number for a short block from BMW was the same for the car this engine came out of and mine. So I hope it'll fit. I will def. check though

Got a link to that thread?
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  #27  
Old 10-29-2013, 04:34 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A B Able Truck View Post
I just read a thread about a N62 engine swap. Be sure your exhaust manifold bolt pattern and bell housing pattern are the same with your new engine. There are a few variations in bolt patterns for different BMW models using the same engine.
edit: looks like beginning 10/2003 745i's used 4 of exhaust gasket 11627505789. This is the same part number / quantity used on mine/545i's. Prior to that, 745i's used 3 of these plus one that was different for cylinders 3/4 where they looked like the picture posted below. I'm not sure if the 10/2003 date is the manufacture date of the CAR or the engine itself. If the engine, there's no way mine is new enough. I need to find the VIN again and check to see when the car was made.

I think it was mid year though, so looks like I might have to use one old head--guess it's a good thing I was planning on pulling them off

-----------------

You might be right, best I can tell the drivers side exhaust studs are the same between new/old engine (but that is just based on pictures) but I don't have a good enough picture of the passenger side on either engine to tell about those. It looks like #4 cylinder has two options. Check out pictures below! Back cylinder on passenger side is #4 cylinder. It's near the "3" marking in the picture. One picture is for 745i, next one is for 545i.

Should be able to be use head off of the old engine instead, just will need to be really looked over first and obviously rebuilt, etc.

You got me worried now!!




Last edited by schpenxel; 10-29-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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  #28  
Old 10-29-2013, 06:39 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Alright, one last post on this tonight and I'll leave it alone until I can go check tomorrow to be sure what I'm working with. I sure am glad it was pointed out--otherwise I wouldn't have noticed until after I had the "new" heads machined and quite possibly one of them wouldn't have mounted up to my exhaust manifold..

I've found that both heads had a part number change on 10/1/2003, along with the upper oil pan. I can't find any visual difference on the drivers side head, but obviously the passenger side head had some changes. I found a [supposedly] low mileage used head on eBay with the NEW part number, just in case I need it. Cost is about $200 and they aren't far from me. I may can just use my old head, the issue being that the intermediate levers are out of spec, which causes a rough idle condition on cold starts on cold days which I was really hoping to get rid of. I am also worried that whatever messed up the cylinder also messed up that head. Either of those could justify just buying another head to use with lower mileage as the intermediate levers alone are quite expensive.

I've also confirmed the part numbers for the block ARE the same, along with the oil pump, lower oil pan, rear main seal and most everything else I checked, so I think I am good there. That makes me feel better--at worst I may have to use the upper oil pan off my old engine if there is a difference that matters (two bell housing bolts connect to the upper oil pan, so it very well may)

Welp, that's all I've got for now. Ultimately it's not a show stopper it doesn't look like, but does make my decision to pull the heads an easy one.. it looks like I don't have a choice actually, lol
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  #29  
Old 10-29-2013, 08:10 PM
MINI+BMWtek MINI+BMWtek is offline
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Re: BMW E60, 545i N62, Engine Removal, Rebuild, Installation

can you post the pictures for exaust ports, carbon in cylinders,zoom in the little hole for secondary air? in the secondary air forum. also try to burn with a torch the carbon see if it melts. also any tool or brush from HF that may help clean those ports engine on car

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  #30  
Old 10-29-2013, 08:13 PM
MINI+BMWtek MINI+BMWtek is offline
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Re: BMW E60, 545i N62, Engine Removal, Rebuild, Installation

thanks the aga cleaning kit may left too much loose carbon inside engine

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  #31  
Old 10-29-2013, 08:17 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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There's quite a few posted in here already. I think there's more in my head gasket thread. I've posted a ton of the carbon in the cylinders. Not sure what else there is to take a picture of

If you look at the pics of the exhaust ports, the small circles on the top surface are the secondary air ports. I might can use a mirror to get a better angle of it. It's tough to get a picture of them with how they're so far in there and angled

Last edited by schpenxel; 10-29-2013 at 08:19 PM.
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  #32  
Old 10-29-2013, 08:54 PM
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See if there is enough meat on the new heads that will align to your exhaust manifold so you can drill & tap new bolt holes.

From your photos, it looks like there is a good flat surface to work with.

Last edited by A B Able Truck; 10-29-2013 at 09:02 PM. Reason: iinfo
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  #33  
Old 10-29-2013, 09:00 PM
MINI+BMWtek MINI+BMWtek is offline
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Maybe you posted pictures in that thread i did not read the whole thing my bad. finding threads is not easy. i wonder if these ports can be clean on car with manifold off? never seen it done at a bmw dealership i think is better than aga
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  #34  
Old 10-30-2013, 04:24 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A B Able Truck View Post
See if there is enough meat on the new heads that will align to your exhaust manifold so you can drill & tap new bolt holes.

From your photos, it looks like there is a good flat surface to work with.
I was thinking the same thing..my dad just went and looked and I def. have the "old" style bolt pattern on #4. He didn't get a good picture of #4, but it was good enough to see that on #2 there is plenty of metal to drill / tap, so if 4 is the same then that should be a reasonable option

I bet I can have the machine shop take care if it while they're going through the rest of the head and doing their magic
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  #35  
Old 10-30-2013, 04:28 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MINI+BMWtek View Post
Maybe you posted pictures in that thread i did not read the whole thing my bad. finding threads is not easy. i wonder if these ports can be clean on car with manifold off? never seen it done at a bmw dealership i think is better than aga
Here is the link to that one:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=723796

Let me know if there's something else you'd like to see. It's about impossible to get any better shots of the ports

As far as taking the manifold off on the car, good luck! I'm not sure that can be done. I had to pull the head off with the manifold still attached, there just wasn't enough room to get to any of the bolts

However, bmwoem1 has mentioned dropping the front subframe and drilling out the secondary air ports from underneath but I don't know any other details on how he does it

Last edited by schpenxel; 10-30-2013 at 05:09 AM.
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  #36  
Old 10-30-2013, 06:46 AM
Margal Margal is offline
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Great information. I learn a lot just from pics of disabled engine. I am at 111k miles and my oil pans are leaking oil little bit and thinking to replace the gaskets. But would like to know what are other parts to replace as a PM while the oil pans are removed. Is the oil pump going to fail by mileage?
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  #37  
Old 10-30-2013, 07:07 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margal View Post
Great information. I learn a lot just from pics of disabled engine. I am at 111k miles and my oil pans are leaking oil little bit and thinking to replace the gaskets. But would like to know what are other parts to replace as a PM while the oil pans are removed. Is the oil pump going to fail by mileage?
I've never heard of an oil pump going on these engines so I think you're safe there

I'd consider pulling off a bearing cap or two and seeing how they look, maybe plasti-gage them as well to see how they're wearing

The lower oil pan gasket is easy enough with engine in I would think--not so sure about the upper one. May have to remove subframe to get access?
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  #38  
Old 10-30-2013, 08:46 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Dad checked this morning and the #4 cylinder is def the "old" 745i configuration. However, it looks like there may be plenty of room to drill holes in the proper places and still use the heads that came with the new engine. I need to review it in person to be sure. It almost looks like the casting is the same either way and they just drill and tap whichever location they need. I guess that makes sense, which is always surprising for BMW engineering.

I'll put some pictures up later

Good info on the valvetronic system and it's issues. If there truly is enough room to simply add the correct holes, that may be my best option to keep the original heads. Of course I would have a machine shop take care of it for me, drilling into a head isn't quite my cup of tea

- - - Updated - - -

Picture of "new" engine--see studs on the back two cylinders are parallel when they should be like how the first two cylinders are. I'm going to run by there during lunch to compare to the exhaust manifold and get a better handle on what I need to do

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  #39  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:08 AM
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dolfan13 dolfan13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
Here is the link to that one:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=723796

Let me know if there's something else you'd like to see. It's about impossible to get any better shots of the ports

As far as taking the manifold off on the car, good luck! I'm not sure that can be done. I had to pull the head off with the manifold still attached, there just wasn't enough room to get to any of the bolts

However, bmwoem1 has mentioned dropping the front subframe and drilling out the secondary air ports from underneath but I don't know any other details on how he does it
I thought someone had made a kit to drill holes in the channel ,engine in the car.Allowing direct access to SAP.
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  #40  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:33 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolfan13 View Post
I thought someone had made a kit to drill holes in the channel ,engine in the car.Allowing direct access to SAP.
There is a kit out there to drill them out from the outside of the head with some sort of fixture, but you have to drop the engine to get access to it. You cannot do it with the engine in the car

-----------

Update on head fiasco: head on "new" engine has PLENTY of space to have new holes drilled for where they need to be. The area around the port that looks like it slopes backwards is an optical illusion, it's actually slick in a large enough area that BMW must just drill the holes whichever way they want them to be.

Last edited by schpenxel; 10-30-2013 at 09:43 AM.
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  #41  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:46 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Picture disappeared, not sure what happened.

Here is the port in question:

Studs need to be at around the 10:30 position and 4:30 position. At least the casting is there to work with





Last edited by schpenxel; 10-30-2013 at 05:17 PM.
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  #42  
Old 11-01-2013, 12:11 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Update: Ordered the full timing tool kit from bimmertoolrental.com

Planning on picking it up tomorrow

Going to order all the other parts Monday

Taking heads to machine shop Monday also
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  #43  
Old 11-02-2013, 06:18 AM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Great pics and discoveries. How are you handling the alternator? Isn't the 745 water cooled. Have you ID'd a replacement?

One thing I like about the 745 is the tensioner pulley for the A/C compressor. I have read posts where folks did purchase the 745 A/C tensioner and installed on the 545i, then just ordered the A/C belt that normally went on the 745 and it worked. I hate the stretch belt on the 545.

You mention having the VIN of the vehicle for the new motor. Have you ran a Carfax on the VIN? My father in-law has been looking for a used motor ( different make) and he gets a wealth of info when doing a Carfax such as where the car has been registered, and most dealer and non dealer service details and oil changes have shown up in the report.

Do you think it was excess loose carbon that jammed the combustion chamber, then spread the #2 cylinder and not dissolved gasket from the cleaner?
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  #44  
Old 11-02-2013, 06:28 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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I'm going to swap all the accessories and mounts from the original engine over to the new one. Also swapping water pump as it had an output to the alternator which I won't need.

Haven't ran a carfax, I'm changing so many parts on this engine that as long as the bearings, pistons and block are in good shape then it should be fine--good idea though. If I can find the VIN I may go ahead and do that just to see what's on there

I noticed that as well on the AC belt tensioner. I had been meaning to buy one to get rid of the stupid "stretchy" belt that came on my car. The new engine came with the tensioner so I'll leave that on and get the proper belt for it

Ordered most of my parts a few minutes ago from ECS. Going to order a few parts from rmeuropean. They're a lot cheaper on head gaskets. Will post the list of what I ordered later. Basically replacing ever seal, all timing chain parts except the chains and replacing most bolts that I'll touch

I am on the way to pick up the timing kit from bimmertoolrental right now as well

I do believe carbon getting jammed up was the cause of cracking my original block for sure. I can't come up with anything else that makes sense

Last edited by schpenxel; 11-02-2013 at 06:29 AM.
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  #45  
Old 11-02-2013, 07:01 AM
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I was going to have AGA install my A/C belt while they have my car because I didn't have the install tool. Should I tell them not to and just puchase the tensioner and the longer belt?
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  #46  
Old 11-02-2013, 07:04 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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That's what I'd do

It can be done without the special tool but it is not easy
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  #47  
Old 11-02-2013, 11:32 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Pictures of the kit from bimmertoolrental, and my 6' long cheater bar + 3/4" drive breaker bar. The scale of the cheater bar/breaker/socket just don't come across very well in pictures for whatever reason.























Last edited by schpenxel; 11-02-2013 at 11:34 AM.
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  #48  
Old 11-02-2013, 12:22 PM
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A B Able Truck A B Able Truck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
That's what I'd do
It can be done without the special tool but it is not easy
I imagine I won't be able to pull the parts needed by vin. from the dealer for a tensioner, bracket (if needed) & belt for the upgrade. Should I assume a later or earlier 550 or 7series will work? Is there a mount bracket for the tensioner needed? Usually on the trucks I work on with multiple tensioners they're the same part number - are the N62 tensioners the same part numbers for A/C and alt.

Schpenxel - for someone who's taking apart 2 engines you have very clean finger nails????
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  #49  
Old 11-02-2013, 03:36 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A B Able Truck View Post
I imagine I won't be able to pull the parts needed by vin. from the dealer for a tensioner, bracket (if needed) & belt for the upgrade. Should I assume a later or earlier 550 or 7series will work? Is there a mount bracket for the tensioner needed? Usually on the trucks I work on with multiple tensioners they're the same part number - are the N62 tensioners the same part numbers for A/C and alt.

Schpenxel - for someone who's taking apart 2 engines you have very clean finger nails????
Yeah, should work--I am 99% sure it's actually the exact same tensioner that is used on the other belt. I remember being mad I had already thrown my old one away when I replaced it, because I figured out I could have used it for the AC belt side

edit: User H F said it is indeed the same tensioner

Quote:
and its the same tensioner as the serpentine belt tensioner
I'll have to dig up the part number for the belt--it's in one of my threads, I can't remember which though. Just a sec. and I'll try to find it

edit: I was told the belt is CONTITECH part number 4pk860

Pictures/more info here:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=10

On the fingernails--haha, I was ordering something on amazon one day and it recommended these black nitrile gloves, so I gave them a shot. You can see the scars on my hands too

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Turns out they are pretty awesome--one pair lasted all day last Sunday and no more scrubbing the crap out of my hands before I go to work on Monday.. I had tried the regular blue ones before but I'd rip them so often they were annoying to use. And once your hands are sweaty it's tough to keep putting new gloves on when they rip so the blue ones got pretty annoying.

If you order the black ones get a size bigger than you'd normally wear--they are the same size as the blue ones but don't stretch as much so most people need a bigger size.

Last edited by schpenxel; 11-02-2013 at 03:47 PM.
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  #50  
Old 11-02-2013, 05:05 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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And here is a list of parts I have ordered. Some of the cheaper items I ordered more than I need just in case..

I still have to order new head bolts and head gaskets. I wanted to wait until I have the machine shop look at the heads before ordering new gaskets to see whether I'll need standard or larger head gaskets

I wrote the descriptions so apologies on any typos


*******>********>*******>********>
Part Number Description Price/Ea Qty Total
11367501423KT Cam gear to cam shaft bolts
$16.90
1 $16.90
11127518420 Eceentric sensor seals $4.27 2 $8.54
11141439717 Lower timing cover seals $11.07 1 $11.07
11147647380 Front crank seal (lower timing cover)
$25.91
1 $25.91
7129905568 Timing cover bolts $0.99 12 $11.88
07129905572KT Timing cover bolts (10 pcs.) $21.10 1 $21.10
11137545293 Upper oil pan gasket
$20.93
1 $20.93
11417508114 Oil pump o-ring $9.60 1 $9.60
07119904527kt Oil pan bolts $7.39 1 $7.39
07119905394KT Oil pan bolts $9.90
2 $19.80
7119904845 Oil pan bolts $1.91 2 $3.82
11137506774 Lower oil pan gasket $17.37 1 $17.37
7119905396 Oil pan bolts $1.02 20 $20.40
12611744292 Oil level sensor o -ring $5.00 1 $5.00
11627505789 Exhaust manifold gasket $7.95 4 $31.80
11627509731KT Exhaust manifold nuts $26.30 2 $52.60
11231440076 Crankshaft / Dampner bolt ("Jesus bolt") $12.46 1 $12.46
11317507432 Cam chain tensioner seal
$0.99
2 $1.98
11317533479 Bank 1 (passenger) timing chain guide rail $47.65 1 $47.65
11317533462 Bank 1 (passenger) timing chain tensioner rail $28.79 1 $28.79
11317504471 Bank 1 (passenger) timing chain upper slide rail $38.06 1 $38.06
11317533489 Bank 2 (driver) timing chain guide rail $34.43 1 $34.43
11317533483 Bank 2 (driver) timing chain tensioner rail $28.79 1 $28.79
11317504475 Bank 2 (driver) timing chain upper slide rail $38.06 1 $38.06
24407561393 Flex plate to torque converter bolts $3.34 4 $13.36
11617573839 Intake manifold nuts $0.71 5 $3.55
11667509080 Vacuum pump o-ring $1.65 1 $1.65
07147129160KT Underbelly bolt kit $14.95 1 $14.95
11517508535 Water pump gasket (primary) $9.60 1 $9.60
11517507717 Water pump gasket (small one for small tube) $1.32 1 $1.32
12612367061 Oil pressure switch $6.20 1 $6.20
11227805885KT Flex plate to crankshaft bolts (set of 10) $28.60 1 $28.60
11147512101 Rear main seal $77.16 1 $77.16
17211742636 Transmission oil line o-rings $0.99 3 $2.97
11147512862 Lower timing chain guide $24.14 1 $24.14
7119905863 Bolts for timing cover $1.40 1 $1.40
7119905401 Bolts for timing cover $1.82 7 $12.74
7119905402 Bolts for timing cover $2.18 2 $4.36
7119905403 Bolts for timing cover $3.15 1 $3.15
07119905399KT Rear coolant cover bolts $9.90 2 $19.80
11311439552 Timing chain tensioner $66.41 2 $132.82
11317501735KT Upper timing chain slide gasket (set of 10) $26.50 1 $26.50
11367546379KT VANOS o-rings $18.40 1 $18.40
7119904524 Dip stick bolt $0.99 1 $0.99
11617521181 Intake gasket $23.11 2 $46.22
FGR7DQP-8 Spark plug set $45.95 1 $45.95
11317533488 Cam tensioner bolt $4.21 2 $8.42
11317548033 Oil squirter (new tensioner design) $24.14 1 $24.14
11317504455 Cam tensioner bolt $2.29 1 $2.29
11317552896 "Bearing screw" (for bank 2 timing chain tensioner) $19.82 1 $19.82
11127550856kt Head bolt washers $12.90 2 $25.80
11117524470 Engine to transmission dowels $1.93 2 $3.86
11121726241 Block to cylinder head dowels $0.99 7 $6.93
17137516004 Expansion tank cap $5.72 1 $5.72
11127513195 Valve cover gasket set, bank 2 (driver side) $36.06 1 $36.06
11147504376 Rear coolant cover w/seal $48.11 1 $48.11
11147506424 Upper timing cover gasket, bank 1 $7.03 1 $7.03
11147506425 Upper timing cover gasket, bank 2 $7.03 1 $7.03
11340029751 Vavle seal set $56.53 2 $113.06
11341461405 Valve stem locks $1.76 12 $21.12
11431287541 Dipstick O-Ring $0.99 1 $0.99
12317507807 Alternator bracket seal $2.68 2 $5.36








Total $1,345.90
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