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  #51  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:46 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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I'll take the 550 thank you. Someone needs to augment the differential I would need with my 528i trade-in!!!
Hmm.Maybe it IS time to start leasing....
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  #52  
Old 10-30-2013, 10:54 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
You're thinking of the ATS which is already being called a better handling car than the F30.
I've read that and the opinion of "experts" is a joke. Please go test drive an ATS and tell us what you think. I test drove an ATS and it was a couch on wheels. Handles better than an F30? It barely handles better than a Buick.

Oh, and if you're in NJ you have to put up with the knuckle dragging, Sopranos wannabes that work in Cadillac dealers. The most unprofessional group of old farts I've ever seen gathered outside of a used car dealer. One guy had a bad rug on his head, another one had THICK "joisey" accent, another had oil in his hair and not one wore a suit worth more than $100.
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  #53  
Old 10-30-2013, 10:59 PM
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bighorns bighorns is offline
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Originally Posted by demas View Post
Thread should be moved to the Cadillac/F30 forum






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This made me !
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  #54  
Old 10-31-2013, 03:45 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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I will say that my Cousin has a previous gen CTS ('09 or '10) and at like 60K miles it rattles and has a looser chassis than any BMW or Merc I've driven that had 150+K on them. And the previous CTS was/is a solid car when new, it just "loosens" up quickly. That's one area American cars still have to prove themselves on.
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  #55  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:16 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I will say that my Cousin has a previous gen CTS ('09 or '10) and at like 60K miles it rattles and has a looser chassis than any BMW or Merc I've driven that had 150+K on them. And the previous CTS was/is a solid car when new, it just "loosens" up quickly. That's one area American cars still have to prove themselves on.
Imagine if you just amplified the BMW "vibration" threads in this forum or the "soft steering" threads, or the "expensive to repair" threads and how the F10 is not true to form?? I'm not willing to pound the NEW Cadillac into the ground like you guys from the US. The Cadillac seems like a real contender. As Americans, I would have thought you would support it. Are BMW roundels issued at US dealerships such that you guys wear them as "teats" you flash at the golf club like strippers?? What is going on actually? Is the debt ceiling just waiting to be pushed to the limit so the Euro overtakes the US dollar and you ask the Germans what to do? I am mystified at the orgasmic devotion to the BMW. It is a good car- Given. Maybe it is like a forum thing, but I have often wondered who does post here? Enthusiasts for sure, but is it representative? How can a country like the US, be so self destructive? What is it, that actually makes you pre-judge the cars? This is from a nation that defined the auto industry. Come on, give your industry a chance.
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  #56  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:48 PM
bluejayfan bluejayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
......Come on, give your industry a chance.
Some of what you said is true, but understand that for decades the US car industry pounded out the same old same old. I remember gas at a quarter per gallon and true 'boats' of a car. At the same time the Germans and to some extent the Italians and Japanese progressed.

Then the economy shifted, best selling cars in the world were Honda's and Toyota's and there were almost zero US built cars that handled well.

Yes, things are changing, and yes it takes longer to change opinions. But this is a BMW forum so you have to expect some fan boy type behavior.
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  #57  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:51 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
Some of what you said is true, but understand that for decades the US car industry pounded out the same old same old. I remember gas at a quarter per gallon and true 'boats' of a car. At the same time the Germans and to some extent the Italians and Japanese progressed.

Then the economy shifted, best selling cars in the world were Honda's and Toyota's and there were almost zero US built cars that handled well.

Yes, things are changing, and yes it takes longer to change opinions. But this is a BMW forum so you have to expect some fan boy type behavior.
I expect intelligent behaviour and a balanced point of view...like the Germans. Come on guys, there is an American Renaissance. Embrace it. Fan boy...bull ...
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  #58  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:54 PM
bluejayfan bluejayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
I expect intelligent behaviour and a balanced point of view...like the Germans. Come on guys, there is an American Renaissance. Embrace it. Fan boy...bull ...
Well we could turn it around, yes the Cadillac is getting better, but guess what, it still doesn't compare. That's my honest opinion, seems to be shared by most, do you expect anything other than that?
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  #59  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:54 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
I've read that and the opinion of "experts" is a joke. Please go test drive an ATS and tell us what you think. I test drove an ATS and it was a couch on wheels. Handles better than an F30? It barely handles better than a Buick.

Oh, and if you're in NJ you have to put up with the knuckle dragging, Sopranos wannabes that work in Cadillac dealers. The most unprofessional group of old farts I've ever seen gathered outside of a used car dealer. One guy had a bad rug on his head, another one had THICK "joisey" accent, another had oil in his hair and not one wore a suit worth more than $100.
I will test this assertion as I have a number of German cars.
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  #60  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:56 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
Well we could turn it around, yes the Cadillac is getting better, but guess what, it still doesn't compare. That's my honest opinion, seems to be shared by most, do you expect anything other than that?
Candidly, I don't know until I drive it. Have you driven it? The video of both the CTS Vsport and the CTS are very very very compelling. I will make up my own mind.
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  #61  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:58 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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LOL

Okay, I'm in the mood. Yes, this is a BMW forum and many people here are passionate about their BMW. Go to a Cadillac forum and I'm sure posters there are discussing why they think Cadillac is better than BMW and how people should give them a try and buy American and support the UAW.

I can't stand the UAW. They built horrible cars for so long. Cars that my parents bought and I saw rust out at young ages- some A-Hole once told me we had a Monday or Friday car. So it was okay for these lazy, over paid and undereducated people to goof off 40% of the work week? And then management of these American car companies looked the other way?

Yes, Cadillac is better than it used to be. I don't care. I still have awful memories of terrible cars that my parents continued to buy.

Image: I still associate people who own Cadillacs as fat and old. And where I live, guys who have an accent that only Central Casting would want.

Fun to drive and luxurious: tough to compete with BMW for this.

Yes, I did drink the BMW Kool-Aid, but it was tasty and in the past year I've seen the light and its shining on the BMW roundels in my garage. My 5 Series, by a wide margin, is the best car I've ever owned. And my X3 is the best SUV I've ever been in- fun to drive and handles better than any car I ever previously owned.
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Last edited by Bmwlvr60; 10-31-2013 at 09:20 PM.
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  #62  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:01 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
LOL


Yes, I did drink the BMW Kool-Aid, but it was tasty and in the past year I've seen the light and its shning on the BMW roundels in my garage. My 5 Series, by a wide margin, is the best car I've ever owned. And my X3 is the best SUV I've ever been in- fun to drive and handles better than any car I ever previously owned.
I would suggest they won't be anymore....we'll see.
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  #63  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:04 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
LOL

I saw rust out at young ages- some A-Hole once told me we had a Monday or Friday car. So it was okay for these lazy, over paid and undereducated people to goof off 40% of the work week? And then management of these American car companies looked the other way?
.
LOL LOL LOL LOL....Honda, Toyota and even Hyundai were rust buckets....just cheap. What a bunch of crap when the were introduced. They just dumped the product in the US and guys like you thought they were good product. My goodness...they were crap.
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  #64  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:10 PM
MOCKBA MOCKBA is offline
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I agree that price is high, generally a dealer wanted to give a good discount but still I didn't get my lease payments as I wanted. BMW offered me more close to my budget restriction. I did drive CTS-V 2013 and I wasn't impressed with performance. Jaguar XK is noticeably faster. So I excluded Cadillac from my shopping list. So I stuck mostly with BMW and Mercedes. I really want to try some other car but either price, style, performance, build quality are not satisfactory.
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  #65  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:10 PM
bluejayfan bluejayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
LOL LOL LOL LOL....Honda, Toyota and even Hyundai were rust buckets....just cheap. What a bunch of crap when the were introduced. They just dumped the product in the US and guys like you thought they were good product. My goodness...they were crap.
Nobody said they were good, simply that they sold and finally made the US auto makers do something different. And I said different, some were better, some weren't.
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  #66  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:14 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Nobody said they were good, simply that they sold and finally made the US auto makers do something different. And I said different, some were better, some weren't.
They faked you and us out. It was bull****. And it still is. Educated, affluent North Americans, buy too may European cars in my view. The American cars are very good I think and I'm going that way. Don't you and all of the forum members really really really want to embrace something North American? I get enthusiasm for a brand a niche, etc. .. I do. But American cars are coming back. Give them a chance.
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Last edited by PeterC4; 10-31-2013 at 09:16 PM.
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  #67  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:17 PM
bluejayfan bluejayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
Educated, affluent North Americans, buy too may European cars in my view.
Trolls and Red Bull are mutually exclusive in my view.
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  #68  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:17 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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I've owned 8 Japanese cars and every one of them was ultra reliable and not one of them had rust issues. Anecdotally, in my wide network of friends and acquaintances , almost everyone had the same experience as me.

During the same 25 or so years, friends and acquaintances who owned Big 3 cars had numerous issues. Honda and Toyota continue to build ultra reliable cars, go to www.consumerreports.com.

What are you smoking tonight, Peter? Nobody thinks Honda and Toyota builds bad cars.

I bought a couple of BMWs because they are incredible fun and luxurious.
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  #69  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:23 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
I've owned 8 Japanese cars and every one of them was ultra reliable and not one of them had rust issues. Anecdotally, in my wide network of friends and acquaintances , almost everyone had the same experience as me.

During the same 25 or so years, friends and acquaintances who owned Big 3 cars had numerous issues. Honda and Toyota continue to build ultra reliable cars, go to www.consumerreports.com.

What are you smoking tonight, Peter? Nobody thinks Honda and Toyota builds bad cars.

I bought a couple of BMWs because they are incredible fun and luxurious.
You are plausibly younger than I am, but the Japanese cars rusted like a tin can when they were introduced in North America. I was a Honda devotee. after my first car...a Camaro, I had a CRX Honda, then an Accord, and many others then an Acura TL and few others after that. I had a number of VW's with their own set of problems. I get the whole thing....but the Big 3 are back. Forget the past.
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  #70  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:25 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
Trolls and Red Bull are mutually exclusive in my view.
Good wine goes anytime.
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  #71  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:31 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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It might be prudent gentlemen to look at the signs of the times. We need to look at the closing gap between a mainstream average car with most of the modern day technical toys:abs,nav,power everything, multi-plug ins for all media types, self-parking,avoidance systems etc. and, we should note, the more high end vehicles. The price of a BMW,Audi,MB,Volvo,yes, and Cadillac needs to be evaluated in terms of value for money. But, as I have noted before, the RESALE residual value of any vehicle tells you what the market will pay and not how we feel emotionally about our own set of wheels. Depreciation is a big factor. Sure, the sheer joy of driving a 5 series, for example, is hard to quantify in economic terms but, then again, for those who keep these cars for a long time, the basic engineering and, long term reliability are salient factors. For me, if I enjoy any car because it fits my esthetic tastes, drives the way I like it, satisfies my ego or other appetites, then it is really only academic. That is why we have Ford and Chrysler and CHev fans who stick with their well-loved car brand. But, others, like me will shift if we find a quality car which meets our own criteria. The Cadillac of old was no worse or better than many of it's generational peers. Many early Japanese marques were dreadful, to say the least. Nowadays we see the Koreans beating the Japenese at their own marketing game and, American cars are becoming quite competitive. In the luxury world though one has to look at the price brackets and what is available. The 40 to 70K bracket is a hot market range. I have driven just about every marque in that range and I bought another BMW.But, I would consider,yes, consider even a Cadillac if I were really convinced. My dear friend drives a 2002 Toyota Camry and is happy as a clam. He appreciates my Bimmer but I doubt he understands why I would pay so much money for one!! Hmmm.....

Last edited by Fastpaddler; 10-31-2013 at 09:33 PM.
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  #72  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:32 PM
bluejayfan bluejayfan is offline
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Good wine goes anytime.
lol, there you go, one man's swill is another man's chardonnay, same with cars.
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  #73  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:36 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fastpaddler View Post
It might be prudent gentlemen to look at the signs of the times. We need to look at the closing gap between a mainstream average car with most of the modern day technical toys:abs,nav,power everything, multi-plug ins for all media types, self-parking,avoidance systems etc. and, we should note, the more high end vehicles. The price of a BMW,Audi,MB,Volvo,yes, and Cadillac needs to be evaluated in terms of value for money. But, as I have noted before, the RESALE residual value of any vehicle tells you what the market will pay and not how we feel emotionally about our own set of wheels. Depreciation is a big factor. Sure, the sheer joy of driving a 5 series, for example, is hard to quantify in economic terms but, then again, for those who keep these cars for a long time, the basic engineering and, long term reliability are salient factors. For me, if I enjoy any car because it fits my esthetic tastes, drives the way I like it, satisfies my ego or other appetites, then it is really only academic. That is why we have Ford and Chrysler and CHev fans who stick with their well-loved car brand. But, others, like me will shift if we find a quality car which meets our own criteria. The Cadillac of old was no worse or better than many of it's generations. Many early Japanese marques were dreadful, to say the least. Nowadays we see the Koreans beating the Japenese at their own marketing game and, American cars are becoming quite competitive. In the luxury world though one has to look at the price brackets and what is available. The 40 to 70K bracket is a hot market range. I have driven just about every marque in that range and I bought another BMW.But, I would consider,yes, consider even a Cadillac if I were really convinced. My dear friend drives a 2002 Toyota Camry and is happy as a clam. He appreciates my Bimmer but I doubt he understands why I would pay so much money for one!! Hmmm.....
Ahhhhhh, now you are talking my game. In the US, the BMW residual values are very very favourable. Maybe at a 10% advantage to the Canadian BMW residual values. Why? They want to buy market share all day long. Cadillac is a good brand, good car, excellent performer. Support your industry.
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  #74  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:38 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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lol, there you go, one man's swill is another man's chardonnay, same with cars.
Well...no. Swill is really swill. Cadillac is not swill.
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  #75  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:40 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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My son asked me to check out the Cadillacs. I test drove the ATS and was not impressed. His and his friend's image of the Cadillac brand is different than mine. It was definitely the best Cadillac I've ever been in, but for the ATS to be compared to a 3 Series is a long stretch.

Cadillac getting better is a good thing. GM needs to take control of their dealers- it's an awful experience to go into a dealer in NJ. The Japanese and Germans have been beating up GM for so long, finally they may be changing their ways.
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