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  #76  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:41 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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I will say though bjayfan...The American cars have something going on...I can't put my finger on it...but it is real. They are back. And it is good. You just feel it. And with BIG horsepower.
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  #77  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:42 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
My son asked me to check out the Cadillacs. I test drove the ATS and was not impressed. His and his friend's image of the Cadillac brand is different than mine. It was definitely the best Cadillac I've ever been in, but for the ATS to be compared to a 3 Series is a long stretch.

Cadillac getting better is a good thing. GM needs to take control of their dealers- it's an awful experience to go into a dealer in NJ. The Japanese and Germans have been beating up GM for so long, finally they may be changing their ways.
If your son asked you to do that...it's good.
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  #78  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:45 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
Well...no. Swill is really swill. Cadillac is not swill.
I agree, but then it's not quite a BMW yet either.
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  #79  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:48 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
I will say though bjayfan...The American cars have something going on...I can't put my finger on it...but it is real. They are back. And it is good. You just feel it. And with BIG horsepower.
Now that I will agree with. I wanted to like the CTS-V a number of years ago, and it wasn't just the power, the driving dynamics were/are excellent. But it was all surrounded by cheap. Maybe cheap is too strong or the wrong word, but that's what it felt like.
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  #80  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:48 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
I agree, but then it's not quite a BMW yet either.

Ahh...come on... I have so many German cars...I"m gonna change. You know why? Hype. The GM cars are good. What am I ranting about??? What am I doing???? I'm Canadian. Where are the US guys here?? Are you guys working for BMW...come clean.
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  #81  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:49 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
Now that I will agree with. I wanted to like the CTS-V a number of years ago, and it wasn't just the power, the driving dynamics were/are excellent. But it was all surrounded by cheap. Maybe cheap is too strong or the wrong word, but that's what it felt like.
Not anymore...Live a little.
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  #82  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:50 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
I'm Canadian. Where are the US guys here?? Are you guys working for BMW...come clean.
You aren't driving Canadian?
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  #83  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:57 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
You aren't driving Canadian?
Actually, good question. If you drive any number of cars from Civic, to Camaro, to a number of Fords to Toyota, you are driving Canadian. Like Honda in Ohio. But American is where it's at.
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  #84  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:01 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
Actually, good question. If you drive any number of cars from Civic, to Camaro, to a number of Fords to Toyota, you are driving Canadian. Like Honda in Ohio. But American is where it's at.
Like BMW in SC?
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  #85  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:02 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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You know, all said and done. It is kinda weird to be on a German car forum in North America, living in North America. You have to boil it down to it being a niche thing. Imagine if there was a confrontation...just imagine.
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  #86  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:04 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
Like BMW in SC?
Yah, that's right. No doubt. But we as North Americans buy them....we buy them...we buy them... soon, if it keeps going, your currency will change..... LOL
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  #87  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
I've read that and the opinion of "experts" is a joke. Please go test drive an ATS and tell us what you think. I test drove an ATS and it was a couch on wheels. Handles better than an F30? It barely handles better than a Buick.

Oh, and if you're in NJ you have to put up with the knuckle dragging, Sopranos wannabes that work in Cadillac dealers. The most unprofessional group of old farts I've ever seen gathered outside of a used car dealer. One guy had a bad rug on his head, another one had THICK "joisey" accent, another had oil in his hair and not one wore a suit worth more than $100.
LoooL... Yup I went to a very big and fancy Cadillac showroom in north jersey.. an old italian fart tried to take a shot of me.

I asked him:

What about the national offer? Answer: No idea, it depends on options, mileage, bank,..etc!!

What about a fully loaded car lease offer? Answer, when you really decide to buy we can calculate the numbers for you.. it depends on which bank you choose, options, mileage, ..etc here you can piecemeal it! we are not like other manufacturers!

What about the add I recieved by mail with national offer? Answer: I don't care, this is bs and most probably not real!

If I bring you an offer do you match it? Answer, you have to bring it in writing then I might be able to do something!! How to bring it in writing? Go to another dealer negotiate and when they bring you the contract to sign take it and tell them will come back later and bring it to me!!!

****ty arrogant guy with Cadillac pin on his jacket (Same as the one politicians wear with America's flag).

Bottom line, they will confuse you and won't give you a price to compare to other cars and make sure that you don't get a price until you really about to sign so they can take a shot of you!! I am sure an XTS would have probably coast $700/month + Tax and 2-3K down..

I ended up going to BMW and leased my F10 for $665/Month including NJ tax, $0 Down ($68700 car)

Also, I could get a fully loaded Lexus GS 350(Fully Loaded with Adaptive suspension +Luxury Line) for $500/Month or $420/Month with one pay lease. Or MB E class with P1 package for $460/Month.

If they really wana sell, they should change the strategy and have some real national offers for a fully loaded ATS, XTS, CTS cars so the dealer won't be able to confuse the customer! Same as Lexus, no headache as they have two combinations for most of their cars (Semi Loaded and Fully Loaded) and we all know the lease offer for each of them.

Also they have to force the dealers to sell cars to leasing companies as a lot of people like me go directly to a leasing company to avoid the dealer bs...
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Last edited by ahmadddd; 10-31-2013 at 09:40 PM.
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  #88  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:58 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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Originally Posted by Shiltsy View Post
Nice weight savings, but lack of AWD and subpar CUE infotainment system are deal killers vs. 550xi. The exterior is much improved but still not my favorite.


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You shouldnt compare.. the 5 series is a very big car and based on the 7 series chassis while the CTS is based on the smaller ATS with a very low built line which makes it look small in the street.. I saw one the other day and thought that it was an ATS because of the low built line!!

Also, BMW, MB, and Audi were tested and proved to be very reliable as they resolved the reliability issues they had in the 80s and early 90s.

All american cars reputation has been trannished due to the poor quality and reliability issues starting from 1985 to 2009 when they started picking up again. I believe for 2-3 years lease there won't be a problem for me however they still need to prove that their new cars are as reliable and durable as the german and Japanese cars so this can help raising the residual value which is the main factor in calculating a lease and providing competitive offers.. otherwise they won't be able to compete and provide good lease offers as the residual will stay as is.
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  #89  
Old 11-01-2013, 05:46 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Re: 2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
Ahh...come on... I have so many German cars...I"m gonna change. You know why? Hype. The GM cars are good. What am I ranting about??? What am I doing???? I'm Canadian. Where are the US guys here?? Are you guys working for BMW...come clean.
Your posts in this thread went from mildly amusing to tinfoil hat. Seriously, get a grip. We're all anti-American BMW butt-snifferd who can't stand to have anything other than the Roundel on our hood? Please. Get off your soapbox, Obama needs it back.

Youre basing this rant inn several reviews from sympathetic mags that have been wined and dined by GM. Is the car any good? I'm sure it is, but you ding know that because you havent driven one yet. Likely that this car won't be any closer to the perfect car than the F10 is.



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  #90  
Old 11-01-2013, 09:06 AM
rauan rauan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
Love the front end but i hate all Cadillac rears. Looks like your average grandpa's car from the back.

Alan
Agree, it is such an ugly car from the back!
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  #91  
Old 11-01-2013, 09:23 AM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Your posts in this thread went from mildly amusing to tinfoil hat. Seriously, get a grip. We're all anti-American BMW butt-snifferd who can't stand to have anything other than the Roundel on our hood? Please. Get off your soapbox, Obama needs it back.

Youre basing this rant inn several reviews from sympathetic mags that have been wined and dined by GM. Is the car any good? I'm sure it is, but you ding know that because you havent driven one yet. Likely that this car won't be any closer to the perfect car than the F10 is.



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Needsdecaf:

I think Peter was drunk and/or high last night. I've never seen so many off the wall postings lined up together in this forum.

Also, it may surprise you to know that NJ has many conservatives. I realize that there are more in The Great State of TX.

Here's a cut/paste thread I started in the X3 forum that you may enjoy:

Car Magazine Reviews
I have to tell you folks that I'm always skeptical with most reviews I read. I'm especially skeptical of the ones in magazines that receive huge revenues from the car companies in the form of advertising.

So a plausible scenario Is the following: a writer for Road and Track or one of the other car magazines is invited to a cocktail party for the introduction of a new model car. He's wined and dined by car manufacturer's executives. Maybe there are some females there who flirt with the writer and it's a fun day for the writer. He gets to test drive the new model, eat some high quality food and hang out with some powerful people and beautiful women. In the meanwhile the advertising department at R&T has already collected money from the car manufacturer for advertising- lots of money.

Do you think it's possible that the writer may be influenced by the goings on that day? Do you think that it's possible that the advertising department who's going to place an ad in the very same magazine or electronic version of the magazine that the writer's review will appear may have some influence over the writer? Do you think that the writer would like to be invited back to an event in the future and is concerned that if he's too critical he won't be?

I'm involved in marketing, and also in politics. The unethical ways people conduct themselves AT TIMES is very disappointing.

I absolutely don't think my scenerio is the norm, but I KNOW it can happen.

I mostly rely on Consumer Reports for car reviews and secondly on people on these forums. You people are great! I love all the back and forth and objective and subjective commentary based on your love of cars and research.

I think the geeky, liberal, pink panty wearing guys who used to get their lunch stolen every day in high school, losers at Consumer Reports who couldn't get laid with a wad of 100 dollar bills at a whorehouse, are much more reliable than all the other car magazines combined. And the liberal women who work at CR who wear comfortable shoes and aren't even attractive enough for those same guys are equally reliable. They don't accept any advertising and that's all you mostly need to know about them. Oh, and they have a state of the art testing facility and buy all the cars they test secretly.

LOL, I truly look forward to your replies.

And if you're offended by this you don't have a sense of humor even though "you know you do".

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  #92  
Old 11-01-2013, 12:15 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
Needsdecaf:

I think Peter was drunk and/or high last night. I've never seen so many off the wall postings lined up together in this forum.

Also, it may surprise you to know that NJ has many conservatives. I realize that there are more in The Great State of TX.

Here's a cut/paste thread I started in the X3 forum that you may enjoy:

Car Magazine Reviews
I have to tell you folks that I'm always skeptical with most reviews I read. I'm especially skeptical of the ones in magazines that receive huge revenues from the car companies in the form of advertising.

So a plausible scenario Is the following: a writer for Road and Track or one of the other car magazines is invited to a cocktail party for the introduction of a new model car. He's wined and dined by car manufacturer's executives. Maybe there are some females there who flirt with the writer and it's a fun day for the writer. He gets to test drive the new model, eat some high quality food and hang out with some powerful people and beautiful women. In the meanwhile the advertising department at R&T has already collected money from the car manufacturer for advertising- lots of money.

Do you think it's possible that the writer may be influenced by the goings on that day? Do you think that it's possible that the advertising department who's going to place an ad in the very same magazine or electronic version of the magazine that the writer's review will appear may have some influence over the writer? Do you think that the writer would like to be invited back to an event in the future and is concerned that if he's too critical he won't be?

I'm involved in marketing, and also in politics. The unethical ways people conduct themselves AT TIMES is very disappointing.

I absolutely don't think my scenerio is the norm, but I KNOW it can happen.

I mostly rely on Consumer Reports for car reviews and secondly on people on these forums. You people are great! I love all the back and forth and objective and subjective commentary based on your love of cars and research.

I think the geeky, liberal, pink panty wearing guys who used to get their lunch stolen every day in high school, losers at Consumer Reports who couldn't get laid with a wad of 100 dollar bills at a whorehouse, are much more reliable than all the other car magazines combined. And the liberal women who work at CR who wear comfortable shoes and aren't even attractive enough for those same guys are equally reliable. They don't accept any advertising and that's all you mostly need to know about them. Oh, and they have a state of the art testing facility and buy all the cars they test secretly.

LOL, I truly look forward to your replies.

And if you're offended by this you don't have a sense of humor even though "you know you do".


I agree with you, most of these magazines and websites like Edmunds, Car and Driver,..etc make huge amount of profit based on the money they receive from car manufacturers for advertising and some other stuff (Under the table).

Its all about money and business, if you don't pay they will post a bad review about your product until you pay! once you pay they change the review and the product becomes good!!! All about money.. its business and thats how they survive!

Example, I remember very well how the 2012 Infiniti M review was bad with low rating in every aspect compared to a BMW 5 series and taken the high Price of the Infiniti and its Tech package they chose the BMW!!!

4 months later, I was looking for this review and couldn't find it!!! Found great reviews on Edmunds and Car and Driver,..etc instead!! Looks like Infiniti did what it supposed to do

The 2013 Lexus GS, Toyota paid a hell of a money to push the car forward.. Edmund's site was full of the new GS Adds and lease offers!!! And the funniest thing was a big review for the car comparing it to MB, Audi, 5 Series and Lexus won the competition with number 1. The reviewer tried to convince people that its a better car than its german rivals !!

It doesn't make sense to post some ads for a particular car on the site and publish a negative review about the same car on the same site!!!

Excuse my Language, I am not native english speaker.
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Last edited by ahmadddd; 11-01-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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  #93  
Old 11-01-2013, 01:58 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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Your English is very good and points well presented. I speak Japanese(and other languages) but not German yet I have a BMW.
2. What really surprises me with all the email traffic on the F10 site is how many people are LEASING!!! I guess leasing is a better prospect in the US than here. BMWs are also cheaper Stateside than in Canada. Groan.
AL

Last edited by Fastpaddler; 11-01-2013 at 02:01 PM.
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  #94  
Old 11-01-2013, 05:43 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Your posts in this thread went from mildly amusing to tinfoil hat. Seriously, get a grip. We're all anti-American BMW butt-snifferd who can't stand to have anything other than the Roundel on our hood? Please. Get off your soapbox, Obama needs it back.

Youre basing this rant inn several reviews from sympathetic mags that have been wined and dined by GM. Is the car any good? I'm sure it is, but you ding know that because you havent driven one yet. Likely that this car won't be any closer to the perfect car than the F10 is.



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I can't quite decipher tinfoil hat, but Obama is your problem, not mine and I surely don't want his soapbox. I'm sure you could speculate as to the motivations of all the car reviewers as we have above, and just how they derive their opinions, but that is a little bit more of the same problem. There are many anti_"North American" BMW butt -sniffer(s)", but let's forget your graphic description. (I wanted to include the Great White North in the "North American" as we are not exempt.) It's the condemnation of the car before anyone has driven it that seems to be so typical of many these days and where GM and the others have a big battle. Cadillac and the North American's were such leaders in the industry, only to find themselves at the back of the pack for a number of reasons that we could all write a paper on not to mention some of the the OEMs come from protected markets that provide them with special benefits. The US is pretty good at free markets and consumers benefit no doubt.

Anyway, you are right, I haven't driven a Cadillac yet. But that is my point. It may be quite good, and I think, based on what I have seen in the videos I've watched, and the performance to 60 or in the quarter mile, it looks like a real contender. I'm willing to give it a chance. Image, perception are often mixed with buying decisions and to be fair, factor into residual values, which factor into overall cost, etc. Sometimes you have to get past perception and go see for yourself - I'm going to do that and find out.
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Last edited by PeterC4; 11-01-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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  #95  
Old 11-01-2013, 05:56 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
Needsdecaf:

I think Peter was drunk and/or high last night. I've never seen so many off the wall postings lined up together in this forum. .....

I think the geeky, liberal, pink panty wearing guys who used to get their lunch stolen every day in high school, losers at Consumer Reports who couldn't get laid with a wad of 100 dollar bills at a whorehouse, are much more reliable than all the other car magazines combined. And the liberal women who work at CR who wear comfortable shoes and aren't even attractive enough for those same guys are equally reliable. They don't accept any advertising and that's all you mostly need to know about them. Oh, and they have a state of the art testing facility and buy all the cars they test secretly.

LOL, I truly look forward to your replies.

And if you're offended by this you don't have a sense of humor even though "you know you do".

Well, I wasn't although your description above is quite indicative of bar talk and some good ole' fashioned chugging. LOL Okay, just kidding.

I don't know how these guys do it, and I have been a reader of Road & Track, Car and Driver and others for a long time when I was younger. Maybe it was me, but there were a lot of facts you couldn't really camouflage and they really did emphasize the quality gap between North American and Japanese cars of the day. And they were huge supporters of the BMW 3 series often referred to as one of the best cars in the world. Like I said in the post above, best to try it for yourself and see.
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  #96  
Old 11-01-2013, 06:01 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
Needsdecaf:

I think Peter was drunk and/or high last night. I've never seen so many off the wall postings lined up together in this forum.

Also, it may surprise you to know that NJ has many conservatives. I realize that there are more in The Great State of TX.

Here's a cut/paste thread I started in the X3 forum that you may enjoy:

Car Magazine Reviews
I have to tell you folks that I'm always skeptical with most reviews I read. I'm especially skeptical of the ones in magazines that receive huge revenues from the car companies in the form of advertising.

So a plausible scenario Is the following: a writer for Road and Track or one of the other car magazines is invited to a cocktail party for the introduction of a new model car. He's wined and dined by car manufacturer's executives. Maybe there are some females there who flirt with the writer and it's a fun day for the writer. He gets to test drive the new model, eat some high quality food and hang out with some powerful people and beautiful women. In the meanwhile the advertising department at R&T has already collected money from the car manufacturer for advertising- lots of money.

Do you think it's possible that the writer may be influenced by the goings on that day? Do you think that it's possible that the advertising department who's going to place an ad in the very same magazine or electronic version of the magazine that the writer's review will appear may have some influence over the writer? Do you think that the writer would like to be invited back to an event in the future and is concerned that if he's too critical he won't be?

I'm involved in marketing, and also in politics. The unethical ways people conduct themselves AT TIMES is very disappointing.

I absolutely don't think my scenerio is the norm, but I KNOW it can happen.

I mostly rely on Consumer Reports for car reviews and secondly on people on these forums. You people are great! I love all the back and forth and objective and subjective commentary based on your love of cars and research.

I think the geeky, liberal, pink panty wearing guys who used to get their lunch stolen every day in high school, losers at Consumer Reports who couldn't get laid with a wad of 100 dollar bills at a whorehouse, are much more reliable than all the other car magazines combined. And the liberal women who work at CR who wear comfortable shoes and aren't even attractive enough for those same guys are equally reliable. They don't accept any advertising and that's all you mostly need to know about them. Oh, and they have a state of the art testing facility and buy all the cars they test secretly.

LOL, I truly look forward to your replies.

And if you're offended by this you don't have a sense of humor even though "you know you do".

1. I grew up in NY and lived in NJ. I definitely know the demographic.

2. visit www.thetruthaboutcars.com. What you wrote about above is wrong, dead wrong. You said you "absolutely don't think your scenario is the norm". That's where you are dead wrong....it is the norm, it happens ALL the time with EVERY car buff mag. Spend some time on that site. You'll learn your view is the truth... Some light reading for you: http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-the-panamera/
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians

Last edited by Needsdecaf; 11-01-2013 at 06:05 PM.
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  #97  
Old 11-01-2013, 06:53 PM
2010drive 2010drive is offline
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Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
Now that I will agree with. I wanted to like the CTS-V a number of years ago, and it wasn't just the power, the driving dynamics were/are excellent. But it was all surrounded by cheap. Maybe cheap is too strong or the wrong word, but that's what it felt like.
Surrounded by cheap? Was it the leather/suede recaro's that bothered you? The suede steering wheel? The leather dash?
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:56 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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As I stated previously, I did test drive the ATS and didn't like it. I am going to go back and will test drive the CTS with an open mind. However, I need to find a different dealer. I'll never set foot into the North Plainfield, NJ Cadillac dealer again.
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  #99  
Old 11-02-2013, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Your posts in this thread went from mildly amusing to tinfoil hat. Seriously, get a grip. We're all anti-American BMW butt-snifferd who can't stand to have anything other than the Roundel on our hood? Please. Get off your soapbox, Obama needs it back.

Youre basing this rant inn several reviews from sympathetic mags that have been wined and dined by GM. Is the car any good? I'm sure it is, but you ding know that because you havent driven one yet. Likely that this car won't be any closer to the perfect car than the F10 is.



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Lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
Imagine if you just amplified the BMW "vibration" threads in this forum or the "soft steering" threads, or the "expensive to repair" threads and how the F10 is not true to form?? I'm not willing to pound the NEW Cadillac into the ground like you guys from the US. The Cadillac seems like a real contender. As Americans, I would have thought you would support it. Are BMW roundels issued at US dealerships such that you guys wear them as "teats" you flash at the golf club like strippers?? What is going on actually? Is the debt ceiling just waiting to be pushed to the limit so the Euro overtakes the US dollar and you ask the Germans what to do? I am mystified at the orgasmic devotion to the BMW. It is a good car- Given. Maybe it is like a forum thing, but I have often wondered who does post here? Enthusiasts for sure, but is it representative? How can a country like the US, be so self destructive? What is it, that actually makes you pre-judge the cars? This is from a nation that defined the auto industry. Come on, give your industry a chance.
Unfortunately you seemed to have had some personal chip on shoulder effect tap into you on this subject.

GM/Americans built crap for years. They built THE single most unsafe vehicles on the roads, the most compromised crap that had no care for the safety and well being of the people who bought them. They put no attention towards building a cachet, instead bloated their businesses with re-badged versions of other crappy cars and way too many pointless derivative brands which at one point in time did actually have a rich history of their own.

Then what happened? Those pieces of junks stopped selling to the points of needing a Government handout, costing taxpayers money. Oh, but yeah, we're Americans, the fact that we don't back up our own failures means we have "pride" which is a good thing....

You have touched on something true, which is that America is a country divided, at this point so diverse in opinions and heritage that there isn't a singular "united" feel around here. For better or worse. Americans are very quick to hate their own, and support other countries products, for better or worse. "Better" being that American built products haven't always been the best. I honestly find stuff assembled in China these days to have better fit and finish in many cases. Look at American infrastructure, etc. We developed a culture of laziness when it comes to how "perfect" our workforce does things somewhere along the lines.

Then "Worse" being in the case of a company like Apple, who revolutionized the world, almost singlehandedly brought homegrown consumerism to the top of the food chain in modern times, had the rest of the world copy their every move and showed that America can do what others do.... even better. However you saw recently what I considered an unwarranted backlash and demonizing towards Apple, with Americans trying to defend a company like Samsung who clearly ripped off and stole Apple's IP. It's gotta be nice for a company like Samsung to have not only their own Country defending their stealing practices towards an American company, but also see Americans doing the same. That's how an American consumer company will never get anywhere.... i.e when they're one of the GOOD ones and still don't earn the support of their "people" in the same ways their competitors' countries will to them.

As for solidity, all the stuff you mentioned about the F10 are irrelevant and meaningless. The Caddies I've driven in literally felt LOOSE in terms of chassis, like they were falling apart after just a couple of years, i.e a 2010 CTS for one. That's one area that continues to plague American cars. BMW's and Benzes run around with tons of mileage and still feel as solid as new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010drive View Post
Surrounded by cheap? Was it the leather/suede recaro's that bothered you? The suede steering wheel? The leather dash?
They can put diamonds and suede everywhere, however unfortunately for them, inherent "quality" is a multi-step process. It's the weight of the buttons, the grain of the plastics, how everything feels in terms of solidity. Germans put tons of focus into tactile quality, and GM simply don't, however they're getting MUCH better. The previous CTS had some nice materials, but everything felt cheesy, the details namely, the switches, the dome light area, it gave an aura of an inherently cheap car with some fancy materials swathed throughout it.
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  #100  
Old 11-02-2013, 02:29 AM
sb535 sb535 is offline
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2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport

I don't think a CTS V Sport is going to lease out anywhere near as competitive as a 550 for the money I'll take the BMW


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