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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #51  
Old 11-04-2013, 09:08 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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I commented on the MB350 and now I'll comment on the Audi A6 compared to our 5 Series:

I don't like the way the A6 handles on turns. I don't like the feedback I get from the steering. I don't like the sport seats- not comfortable at all.

I do like the looks of the car- inside and out. Love the LEDs. I do think that it feels solid and the materials that are used are high quality.

Now Cadillac:

I test drove the Caddy ATS and hated it.

I'm going to test drive the CTS- need to find a different dealer. North Plainfield, NJ Cadillac has the biggest collection of fat, loser, inarticulate, knuckle draggers I've ever seen gathered outside a mafia funeral.
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  #52  
Old 11-04-2013, 09:56 PM
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Looks like BMW didn't pay their advertising bill to C&D in time.

Too bad the car didn't have 704 suspension with RWD, which is a night and day difference, not to mentions lessens the weight and adds even better performance (more HP to the wheels).

What's impressive is that 1/4 time, and a 100 MPH trap speed from a 4WD means that the RWD will trap even a bit higher.

As for the E Class. I know the car inside and out. Anyone who thinks the E can hold a candle to the 5er in ANY respect, from the finest of details to how luxuriously and sportily one drives VS the other (the 5er btw does BOTH astoundingly better than the E) I'm convinced are either on Daimlers payroll or are just married to the M-B brand in a sentimental way. They're truly that far apart, and the 5er feels a whole segment above the E as it literally is, being a shrunken down 7 Series VS a enlarged C Class (literally speaking, the 5er is on the 7 chassis and shares tons with it while the W212 E is on a modified C chassis and shares tons with it). The E is usually expected to at least be more quiet and solid than a 5.... not so in this case as the 5 benefits from the inherent bones of not only said 7 Series, but an RR Ghost, therefore it's an astonishing 30% stiffer than the E Class, and far quieter (again, whilst maintaining a vast sporty lead, when with 704 suspension at least), not to mention scores even better safety scores. Let's not even get started on tech or transmission or interior ambiance/material quality/craftsmanship, etc....

The Germans seem to feel that a NON-MSport 535i is even better than not only an E350.... but E400 (soon to be flagship non-AMG E Class in the States, replacing the E550), therefore would hold an even more significant lead over the E350.

Let's not forget people who vote with their wallets, giving the F10 5 Series its first worldwide sales crown over the ailing W212 E Class (in one year the F10 blew past the E in sales, a first for BMW in this segment), even with the W212 E being the most discounted car this segment has ever seen, forcing the E into a hideous about-facelift, making it so far up the ugly-pole that it practically looks shamed next to the gorgeous F10 who was penned so well and confidently that BMW didn't want to "mess with perfection" for their own LCI, therefore treating the F10 gracefully, unlike M-B's drastic and embarrassing reconstructive surgery.



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Last edited by K-A; 11-04-2013 at 10:26 PM.
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  #53  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:31 PM
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ChrisF01 ChrisF01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
C&D is a joke.

The E was never better than even the worse F10 so I can't see this review having any credibility at all. RWD and AWD is apples to oranges comparison. I guess Bmw stopped the paychecks for C&D?

Alan
Agreed - who honestly would put so much weight in their reviews when it comes to actually deciding on a car?

That goes for MotorTrend, CAR, Jalopnik, etc too...

Thats why you sit in the damned car and drive it yourself.
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  #54  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyeyeskilla View Post
I can't believe C&D rated the A6 higher in Exterior Styling. I thought about looking at the A6 before settling on my 535 because the A6's chassis and drivetrain is very good, but I just couldn't get my head around how plain the A6 looks. The 5er is a beautiful car (I thought so from the first moment I saw an F10 on the road) while I can't tell an A8 from an A6 from an A4. I think the A4 is the best looking of the bunch of Audi sedans, but that's not saying much.
I recently participated in a Focus Group where they had an F10, E Class, A6 and next-gen XF on display. It was remarkable how the F10 shined among all of them. The exterior looked like a case-study in how to "perfect this segment". it looked both more sporty and luxuriously conveying than any of the others, looked so much more expensive, well thought out, as if the design itself of the car costed more money than what was invested into the competitors'. The F10 next to the rest looked like an instant Classic, just beautiful in the most fundamental and simplistically effortless way.

Then came the interior.... getting into the E (horrible), A6 (better but still a bit sparse and underwhelming), then F10 made you feel like you finally saw BMW show you "how it was supposed to be done". The F10's interior is far richer and more well executed than the E or A6 to me, no question.
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  #55  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by alewifebp View Post
Paging K-A, K-A you're wanted in this thread.

I cancelled my C&D subscription years ago even though it was cheap. I get a lot more data than I need from a ton of different sources. Based on the content of this comparo, I'm not too surprised by the Audi win. C&D loves Audi. And the CTS is certainly earning some praise. But to have the E350 win over the 5 is blasphemy. Styling is subjective of course. I loved the styling on my W211 E. It is an absolute disaster with the W212 though. Now the front is over LED-ized with those silly arrows. The interior is blah. I wouldn't touch the current E at nearly any price. But after having driven the E on several occasions, it is a total snooze-fest. When people complain here about the handling or steering of the 5, go drive the E. The steering is so light and uncommunicative that I almost drove the thing off the road.

This is not to say the 5 is flawless. It certainly is too heavy and lost some of that sporty feel. And they obviously didn't try to use the navigation to get where they were going. But it is superior to the E.


And I agree. My W211 was still one of my favorite cars to date (even though the quality left a lot to be desired), I loved it. I still admire that timeless design. M-B made a mess with the W212 and then tried to fix that mess by making it an even bigger mess. Funny you say that about the E's incredibly boosted and uncommunicative steering. My friend who drove my previous E to my house after I got my F10 literally almost swerved off the road in the E. When I asked him "WTF?" he said "dude it steers like an old Cadillac, I wasn't expecting that". Also, there are NO differences between driving characteristics of the pre and post facelift E Class. Both drive horrendously when compared to the 704 SAT F10, in literally every measure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
Every time i see one of these on the road I just can't help but to chuckle a bit....


Alan
I seriously laugh whenever I see one too. It's perhaps the worst in taste design I've seen from a German in a while.

It looks like a geriatric old man forced to wear already out-of-fashion Ed Hardy or TAPOUT clothing or something. It's actually funny yet saddening what M-B has forcefully and awkwardly grafted onto the poor E Class (uhh.... yeah, let's take an upright, rigid, boxy Sedan and force on a round, friendly, goofy front that has absolutely no correlation to the rest of the design.... and take out every design gimmick we touted on the car just a few years ago, and replace it with something even more imbalanced and inferior.... oh what happened to you, M-B).

There isn't a more imbalanced, unresolved, incoherent, bizarre looking Sedan on the market. I personally liked the pre-facelift version, but the facelift is beyond cheesy, gaudy and just haphazard. How forceful and drastic the facelift was on the E shows just how lowly Daimler regard the car (not to mention how much the F10 and A6 threatened them by stealing tons of market share), which in turn shows how untalented and/or poorly managed the design team is, who can't even stand by their own creations.

Last edited by K-A; 11-04-2013 at 10:55 PM.
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  #56  
Old 11-04-2013, 11:57 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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So much attention for a comparison that is not.
To compare a 535 as did CanD you want to have the car in its best form.
So skip all the useless electronic, not very important for driving, gimmicks.
Do not forget to take a F10 that has SAT, a sportsteering wheel and comfort seats.
While not over the +300 hp and not doing ralleys do not use a 4x4 tractor model.
Maybe get a stiffer suspension than standard, but, most important, use GOOD tires.
It is somewhat funny all this NA noise about a car comparison while one of the contesters is being hampered by 4x4 transmission and bad tires
Get your F10 with RWD and put performance summer tires on and the car is noncomparable with the CanD setup car.

Last edited by Sophisto; 11-05-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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  #57  
Old 11-05-2013, 05:15 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is offline
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Latest C&D Comparison Test places LCI 535 Last....

It's not clear to me that the xDrive really affected the F10's result in the test, other than not having the 704 suspension available - but this car did not have DHP either, which it could have.
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  #58  
Old 11-05-2013, 05:46 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by kk22 View Post
01 Unless the Audi has DRASTICALLY changed the suspension on its sports package there is no way it beats the bimmer in ride quality. Remember, unlike the F10, you have to live with the Audi ride no matter the sport setting because it does not even offer adjustable damping on the A6. In my EXTENSIVE test drive of all 2013s the harsh ride of the A6 made me change my search to a non-sports package A6.
I had a 2012 A6 non-sport, compare to my current 535xi non-sport, the A6 has a stiffer suspension. The A6's handling is a bit better but the trade off is that the ride was not as comfortable. The A6 is a few hundred pounds lighter, but you can feel the difference in the solidness of the car, I am not sure if that is due to the weight difference or not. The F10 feels like a tank compare to the A6 which feels more Japanese like. As far as the seats, the A6 doesnt even offer upgrade seats as an option, the multi-contour seat in the F10 pretty much blow away the A6's standard seats. There are a few areas where the A6 excel, notably the powertrain, it is quicker than the 535i off the line, no hesitation what so ever and it can pretty much match the highway passing power of the F10 as well. The A6's gauges are also a work of art, very bright, very informative and more function than one possibly need. Other than that, the F10 pretty much beat out the A6 in all other areas.
Those 4 cars in the C&D comparo were on my shopping list the last two times I were shopping for a new car. The F10 and the A6 were always tie in my mind, thus I had owned both. The MB350 came in 3rd and the CTS were always last. Can someone please explain to me why the CTS rate so high in most comparo, I still havent figure it out after numerous test drives.
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  #59  
Old 11-05-2013, 05:59 AM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Does anyone else find it odd that the Lexus GS350 was not even included? It got great reviews when the new generation came out 18 months ago, and it even won the Motor Trend comparison.
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  #60  
Old 11-05-2013, 06:05 AM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Going through some of the rankings, the BMW has been given short shrift.

Rear seat comfort - sorry, the BMW is not lower than the A6, and two points lower than the E. I've test driven and sat in the back of all three. At 6'2", I'd say the BMW and Audi are tied with a 4, and the Merc gets a 5.

Fit and finish. Excuse me, the BMW Ties with the Caddy for last and loses to the A6? Reviewers need to stop blowing Audi for their interiors. The BMW is leagues better than the Audi and Merc, especially the chintzy merc (ever turned the HVAC dials, same ones they've been using for 10 years now)? Etc. And while the Audi is good, the vinyl seat backs, cheap arm rests, etc., let it down.

Interior styling - the Merc wins? Ugh, don't even get me started. From the ridiculous column shifter, to the outdated and small COMAND, to the rectilinear dash, to the floating needle speedo which is passe by now, I mean, come on, get real. The BMW and Audi win here, and the Merc trails big time. The Caddy's standard gauges are AWFUL.

Exterior styling - The Audi is bland (is it an A4, A6, A8, A3????) and the Caddy is polarizing (my wife looked at the grille and said 'blech' and looked at the tail and said 'grandpa car'). The BMW wins here again.

Powertrain flexibility - How the N/A Caddy with the 6 speed auto, and the N/A Benz can tie here is a joke. Audi wins this one, followed by BMW, Caddy and Merc trail.

Performance - not sure on this one.

Steering feel - agree, unfortunately the Audi, BMW and Merc are pretty dull and lifeless.

Handling - shame that again they have a base suspension car, as it is fairly floaty. Comparing it to Audi with sport pack is unfair. With the 704, it would have tied the Audi. They seem to like the Caddy, and the Merc should be even further down.

Ride - I can't fathom giving the BMW a worse ride than the Benz. Sorry, I've driven both.

Fun to drive worse than the Merc? Seriously, come off it.

While I don't think that would have given points to the BMW to win, certainly it would have beat the Merc and possibly the Caddy too.
This is a great write up. The only thing I take issue with some of you on is the ride. The runflat tires kill the BMW ride. I have a friend with a new S8 Audi that blows away my 550 in the ride department.

Everything else I think you are right on the money about.
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  #61  
Old 11-05-2013, 06:23 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
This is a great write up. The only thing I take issue with some of you on is the ride. The runflat tires kill the BMW ride. I have a friend with a new S8 Audi that blows away my 550 in the ride department.

Everything else I think you are right on the money about.
Your friend's S8 probably has air suspension.
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  #62  
Old 11-05-2013, 06:31 AM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
Does anyone else find it odd that the Lexus GS350 was not even included? It got great reviews when the new generation came out 18 months ago, and it even won the Motor Trend comparison.
Yeah they praised the hell out of that car and yet it is left out of this comparo. I guess Lexus stopped the checks to C&D too....
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  #63  
Old 11-05-2013, 06:33 AM
Gator_Bimmer Gator_Bimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
Yeah they praised the hell out of that car and yet it is left out of this comparo. I guess Lexus stopped the checks to C&D too....
They mentioned briefly in the intro that the Lexus GS lost a recent comparo to the A6 so they did not include it.
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  #64  
Old 11-05-2013, 06:40 AM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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They also ranked the GS in front of the BMW too during Lexus's massive advertising campaign during the cars launch but yet they included the BMW.
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  #65  
Old 11-05-2013, 06:47 AM
Gator_Bimmer Gator_Bimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
They also ranked the GS in front of the BMW too during Lexus's massive advertising campaign during the cars launch but yet they included the BMW.
Ok, could be... I thought that was in a Motor Trend test (GS/A6/535) and the C&D comparison was only the GS and the A6. In any case, that is the comment they made in the story. This is the one I think they were referring to:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
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  #66  
Old 11-05-2013, 07:53 AM
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Bingo. It's hilarious. I'm sure they would be praising C&D if the BMW came in first place. Can't have it both ways.

- Sent from Galaxy S4
No, not really.

Honestly, I can see the A6 beating the BMW. No idea about the CAddy as I haven't driven one, but people are drooling over the handling of the ATS so I can see it beating the BMW too.

But the Merc? Come on, that's just not right.
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  #67  
Old 11-05-2013, 07:57 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBerryCubed View Post
Funny you paste the base stock picture .... I already know you to be bmw fan boy ..... but anyways to be fair to the E class here is a picture that better represents the Facelift.

Also:

DUde, it's ugly. It looks like a carp.

Don't believe me? My friend and his family are serial Benz buyers. His mom buys a new S Class every 18 months as she does about 50,000 miles / year. He currently has 3 and has owned over 3 dozen, new and used. Needless to say, they are tight with their respective dealers.

The dealers have told them that people HATE the new facelift. The reaction has been so bad that MB is considering bringing the new E to market a full TWO model years prior.

This was confirmed by a conversation he had with a North East head of sales last weekend. NO ONE likes the new nose.
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  #68  
Old 11-05-2013, 10:53 AM
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It hurts when your expensive pride and joy lands dead last in a comparo like this, but hopefully this will be a wake-up call to BMW for future generations of their vehicles. BMW is currently enjoying record breaking sales, but many of those sales can be credited to the PAST glory of the cars, which landed at or near the top of every magazine review for many years. "The Ultimate Driving Machine" tagline has been very effective, and still resonates in the mind of many customers.

BMW rested on their laurels a little too much, and prioritized expanding their model lineup and cutting costs instead of being laser focused on the actual engineering of the bread and butter models. Meanwhile the competition was still feverishly chasing BMW's famous driving dynamics in an attempt to win their own magazine comparos, and managed to finally succeed while BMW was distracted.

That's not to say the current models are BAD by any stretch, but their strengths are no longer in areas that will win over the hearts of journalists who focus 90% on pure driving dynamics during their evaluations. Sure the F10 chassis is vault-solid and the interior is full of creature comforts, but that's not what impresses these reviewers. You can say that the only reasons this car finished last are because it was equipped with AWD and didn't have this magical '704' suspension, but I disagree. It lost because it's a heavyweight cruiser with vague steering, not well suited to aggressive driving. Period. Harsh words, especially because I haven't even taken delivery of my F10 yet, but true.

Former BMWs lacked tire shredding power in their base form, but still tended to outhandle even the top-line offerings from the competition. Now many BMWs are rockets in a straight line, but have lost their magical handling feel. The good news is that BMW hasn't gone past the point of no return. If these recent poor showings convince them to shed a few hundred pounds and focus once again on the nuances of the actual DRIVING experience, while retaining the technology that today's customers demand, they can return to the pole position in reviews once again.

Sorry if this post offends any fan boys, but constructive criticism will help the brand much more in the long run than blind admiration.
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  #69  
Old 11-05-2013, 11:00 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Honestly, I can see the A6 beating the BMW. No idea about the CAddy as I haven't driven one, but people are drooling over the handling of the ATS so I can see it beating the BMW too.

But the Merc? Come on, that's just not right.
The article compare the 535i to a CTS, I can see a ATS beating the 535i as far as performance, but not the CTS.
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  #70  
Old 11-05-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
No, not really.

Honestly, I can see the A6 beating the BMW. No idea about the CAddy as I haven't driven one, but people are drooling over the handling of the ATS so I can see it beating the BMW too.

But the Merc? Come on, that's just not right.
Agreed. I never buy cars based on reviewers recommendations. I passed on the E60 and bought Benzes when BMW's were winning them. Reviewers are selfish (err $elfi$h), they are one-track minded, they want something that's fun to throw around cones for an hour. They pay no mind to true inherent superiority, the kind that one who drives a car tens of thousands of miles and has to live with it every day requires. The E350 "beating" the 535i shows that C&D have VERY sour apples at BMW and are practically flipping them the bird in every article these days. They're like the ex-fanboys who developed a sense of entitlement, always heralding BMW's nonstop, rhwn naturally when felt let down, turned that enthusiasm right around into hate. Not to mention, clearly the ad payments stopped coming in (which could be the main catalyst right there). IMO C&D are trolling BMW at this point, and the E350 coming in ahead of the 535i is the ultimate troll.

Not using an RWD 535i with 704 was another slap in the face. I thought FINALLY with the facelift we'll get 704 BMW's getting tested which IMO would get them in 1st place even in rags again, but of course, C&D didn't do that, they used a base/float suspension car. Did the car even have SAT? I believe someone said no, so no 704 OR SAT or DHP for that matter? Nice. Pretty much un-tick every performance related option available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikenski View Post
It hurts when your expensive pride and joy lands dead last in a comparo like this, but hopefully this will be a wake-up call to BMW for future generations of their vehicles. BMW is currently enjoying record breaking sales, but many of those sales can be credited to the PAST glory of the cars, which landed at or near the top of every magazine review for many years. "The Ultimate Driving Machine" tagline has been very effective, and still resonates in the mind of many customers.

BMW rested on their laurels a little too much, and prioritized expanding their model lineup and cutting costs instead of being laser focused on the actual engineering of the bread and butter models. Meanwhile the competition was still feverishly chasing BMW's famous driving dynamics in an attempt to win their own magazine comparos, and managed to finally succeed while BMW was distracted.

That's not to say the current models are BAD by any stretch, but their strengths are no longer in areas that will win over the hearts of journalists who focus 90% on pure driving dynamics during their evaluations. Sure the F10 chassis is vault-solid and the interior is full of creature comforts, but that's not what impresses these reviewers. You can say that the only reasons this car finished last are because it was equipped with AWD and didn't have this magical '704' suspension, but I disagree. It lost because it's a heavyweight cruiser with vague steering, not well suited to aggressive driving. Period. Harsh words, especially because I haven't even taken delivery of my F10 yet, but true.

Former BMWs lacked tire shredding power in their base form, but still tended to outhandle even the top-line offerings from the competition. Now many BMWs are rockets in a straight line, but have lost their magical handling feel. The good news is that BMW hasn't gone past the point of no return. If these recent poor showings convince them to shed a few hundred pounds and focus once again on the nuances of the actual DRIVING experience, while retaining the technology that today's customers demand, they can return to the pole position in reviews once again.

Sorry if this post offends any fan boys, but constructive criticism will help the brand much more in the long run than blind admiration.
I disagree because I think what made the F10 so much more popular than previous BMW's and so able to do what no 5 did before it: Take worldwide market share away from the E Class, was it's new luxurious virtues added into its "dynamics". I find my 535i equipped how it is quite suited to aggressive driving.... for an incredibly stiff and ultra luxurious Sedan of this segment. If you want to experience a car immensely unsuited for aggressive driving, drive a new E Class. It feels like an older Cadillac in comparison. That's why C&D are obviously embarking on a vendetta against BMW here and they pulled the ultimate on this one.
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  #71  
Old 11-05-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikenski View Post
It hurts when your expensive pride and joy lands dead last in a comparo like this, but hopefully this will be a wake-up call to BMW for future generations of their vehicles. BMW is currently enjoying record breaking sales, but many of those sales can be credited to the PAST glory of the cars, which landed at or near the top of every magazine review for many years. "The Ultimate Driving Machine" tagline has been very effective, and still resonates in the mind of many customers.

BMW rested on their laurels a little too much, and prioritized expanding their model lineup and cutting costs instead of being laser focused on the actual engineering of the bread and butter models. Meanwhile the competition was still feverishly chasing BMW's famous driving dynamics in an attempt to win their own magazine comparos, and managed to finally succeed while BMW was distracted.

That's not to say the current models are BAD by any stretch, but their strengths are no longer in areas that will win over the hearts of journalists who focus 90% on pure driving dynamics during their evaluations. Sure the F10 chassis is vault-solid and the interior is full of creature comforts, but that's not what impresses these reviewers. You can say that the only reasons this car finished last are because it was equipped with AWD and didn't have this magical '704' suspension, but I disagree. It lost because it's a heavyweight cruiser with vague steering, not well suited to aggressive driving. Period. Harsh words, especially because I haven't even taken delivery of my F10 yet, but true.

Former BMWs lacked tire shredding power in their base form, but still tended to outhandle even the top-line offerings from the competition. Now many BMWs are rockets in a straight line, but have lost their magical handling feel. The good news is that BMW hasn't gone past the point of no return. If these recent poor showings convince them to shed a few hundred pounds and focus once again on the nuances of the actual DRIVING experience, while retaining the technology that today's customers demand, they can return to the pole position in reviews once again
Nah. The F10 is radically outselling the E60. Nobody at BMW is losing any sleep over these reviews.

Even so, I bet they didn't mean it to be as heavy as it turned out. Look for them to include some cool weight reduction technology in the next 5. Should be amazing.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:29 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Even so, I bet they didn't mean it to be as heavy as it turned out. Look for them to include some cool weight reduction technology in the next 5. Should be amazing.
There are some BMW people that actually post on some other forums, yes, mostly marketing types. According to one, yes, you can expect some weight savings on the next 5 series, but not at the expense of it's luxury underpinnings. If it sells, they'll keep at it, if it doesn't, like the 1 in the US, expect changes (like front wheel drive).

Sports or sporty, 2/3/4 for now, and the i8. If they sell.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:32 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by bikenski View Post
didn't have this magical '704' suspension
The LCI base suspension is almost functionally equivalent to the 704.
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  #74  
Old 11-05-2013, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Nah. The F10 is radically outselling the E60. Nobody at BMW is losing any sleep over these reviews.

Even so, I bet they didn't mean it to be as heavy as it turned out. Look for them to include some cool weight reduction technology in the next 5. Should be amazing.
Not to mention the biggest catch is market share, however. Sales growth from model to model is typical and normal, so it's the *extent* of the growth and market share take that tells the real story. The F10 has outsold the E60 SO drastically that it's clear it has less to do with natural "inflation" but instead a much higher want and regard for the F10 in particular.

Where the F10 has really won for BMW is in its massive market share takeover. That had nothing to do with the BMW's before it, from the second the F10 was showed and tested, the praise from "real life" people (not selfish/one-track minded magazine reviewers) who actually buy these cars was clearly overwhelming for BMW.

IMO, BMW knew exactly what they were doing, and giving the 5er a 7 platform was killing two birds with one stone: Cutting down costs and ensuring the 5 has no chance of being surpassed as a fundamental luxury car by its competitors who's chassis' are generally based on the lower-priced cars.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
The LCI base suspension is almost functionally equivalent to the 704.
Not at all. Many members here posted that the non-704 LCI felt like a "boat" or excessively floaty compared to the 704. Still a big difference, though maybe not as "night and day" as before. Enough of a difference to make test results drastically different for the F10.
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