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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:29 AM
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skalberti skalberti is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauicoug View Post
Not to beat a dead horse here....but, I never met another cop who was jealous of BMW drivers, maybe a Porsche(heh,Heh). There is no value to falsifying a traffic citation, why bother to stop someone, unless you have probable cause. I always have to laugh about people saying we arrest for no reason...who wants to write all of the reports. As far as speed cameras and red light cameras, I think they are great. However, tons of people hate them, because they forget they are there, then get a citation in the mail and flip out. I was living in the Phoenix valley, which several years ago, had several of the most dangerous intersections in the US. There are not enough police to deal with all of the traffic violators. After the red light cameras were installed, the follow up study showed that accidents were down, which is the whole reason for traffic enforcement. I am sure that many people think they can handle a car and should drive as fast as they want....but, plenty can not, regardless of what kind of car they drive.

Then why do police have ticket quotas? The thing is that's a big money maker for police depts. when they need to cars or equipment they start writing more tickets. I've seen several local and national news reports about speed traps and writing tickets for speeding when the driver wasn't speeding. Then you see cops driving 80mph in a 55 when they're on the way to a non emergency. 60 minutes did a special on that topic. It's pure abuse of the law. Here's my disclaimer "not all police abuse the law"


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  #27  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skalberti View Post
Then why do police have ticket quotas? The thing is that's a big money maker for police depts. when they need to cars or equipment they start writing more tickets. I've seen several local and national news reports about speed traps and writing tickets for speeding when the driver wasn't speeding. Then you see cops driving 80mph in a 55 when they're on the way to a non emergency. 60 minutes did a special on that topic. It's pure abuse of the law. Here's my disclaimer "not all police abuse the law"


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+1. I see it all the time. Cops crossing HOV lanes, talking on cell phones. Etc Etc. How much driver training due the police actually receive? Is it a weekend course with cones and wet pavement ???? I bet drivers in Germany have more driver training then American police have!


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  #28  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:46 AM
que syrah syrah que syrah syrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauicoug View Post
Not to beat a dead horse here....but, I never met another cop who was jealous of BMW drivers, maybe a Porsche(heh,Heh). There is no value to falsifying a traffic citation, why bother to stop someone, unless you have probable cause. I always have to laugh about people saying we arrest for no reason...who wants to write all of the reports. As far as speed cameras and red light cameras, I think they are great. However, tons of people hate them, because they forget they are there, then get a citation in the mail and flip out. I was living in the Phoenix valley, which several years ago, had several of the most dangerous intersections in the US. There are not enough police to deal with all of the traffic violators. After the red light cameras were installed, the follow up study showed that accidents were down, which is the whole reason for traffic enforcement. I am sure that many people think they can handle a car and should drive as fast as they want....but, plenty can not, regardless of what kind of car they drive.
While I agree this may have been true at one point in time I no longer think it's the case. Red light cameras and to a lesser degree speed cameras have become primarily revenue generators with the secondary benefit of traffic safety to many jurisdictions. There has also been a number of cases where said cameras were operating outside of the speed zone or not working properly at all with tens of thousands of dollars of inaccurate fines paid.

I've not received a red light camera ticket (knock wood and I try not to inadvertently run a red light) and have received two speed camera tickets in 35+ years of driving (again, knock wood). I promptly paid them both, I'm sure I was speeding at the locations I received the tickets. It didn't make me happy, but it sure was better than receiving a fine AND points on my license.
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  #29  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:27 AM
Bmwonly Bmwonly is offline
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Originally Posted by skilletbgm View Post
^^ this!

Plan better and don't do 20+ over the posted limit


I don't go there often, went there 3 times in last 5 years, I was driving about 70 on 55 limit, but everyone were still passing me, so went ahead finally, maybe the red 650i caught their attention?
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  #30  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:38 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skalberti View Post
One thing I do to get out of tickets, and I only do this if they aren't writing a warning and are about to write a ticket. I ask them to see their license to operate the laser or radar gun. Every officer that uses one has to have a license. If they don't have the license they can't legally write you a ticket. You'd be surprised at how many don't have one. If they used radar and have shown me a license to operate the radar gun, I ask them to see the calibration log and when was the last time they had the unit calibrated. You'd be surprised at how many don't have calibration logs and they are to be done monthly. If they have neither or even one item, i tell them it would be better to write me a warning because I'm documenting that they were missing info and when I show up in court and you couldn't provide the documentation showing you had a license or calibration the ticket will be thrown out. So far I've never had to go to court. Knocking on wood....
I think that using that kind of approach with a cop would probably end up making your situation much worse most of the time.

It reminds me of the story going around the internet this week where the guy got stopped in New Mexico and ended up going to the station and getting multiple anal drug searches and more. What those cops and docs did was unconscionable but I don't think we are hearing the whole story there.

If you're going 89 in a 55 and you get stopped, you've been caught. You and the cop both know it. Better to be completely cooperative and a little contrite, and maybe the cop lets you go about half the time.
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  #31  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:45 AM
wake wake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skalberti View Post
Then why do police have ticket quotas? The thing is that's a big money maker for police depts. when they need to cars or equipment they start writing more tickets. I've seen several local and national news reports about speed traps and writing tickets for speeding when the driver wasn't speeding. Then you see cops driving 80mph in a 55 when they're on the way to a non emergency. 60 minutes did a special on that topic. It's pure abuse of the law. Here's my disclaimer "not all police abuse the law"


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All I can do is laugh, go out to any highway and how many people do you think are speeding? Do you have to work hard to see someone speeding? So if it is so easy for you to spot a speeder, why would any cop have to lie in order to write a ticket? I'm not saying it has never happened, but to think it is common practice is pretty misguided. I can't speak for all states, but in FL a VERY small percentage of the ticket actually goes to the agency that writes the ticket, the strong majority goes to the state, so funding may be a reason for state agencies to write tickets, but for most city and county agencies, the funding that comes from ticket writing is such a small part of their budget that increasing that is not a valuable use of time. This obviously may not be true for very small agencies with small budgets.
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  #32  
Old 11-07-2013, 11:32 AM
mauicoug mauicoug is offline
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Geez, okay will respond to this a little more.....I have never worked in a police dept. that had a ticket quota. I have also never worked where the police dept. got the revenue from tickets or any other criminal citations. The revenue usually goes to the general fund of the entity. All POST certified police officers have 40 hours of Emergency Vehicle Operations. I trained in the rain, in Washington state, it was a very good learning experience for me... a long time ago. I will say that what I learned saved my ass a few times, especially emergency lane changes! I have never had an at fault accident, while on the job.

Yep, some officers do violate the law while driving. However, I believe most of us, do our best to stay within the rules. I like to give out verbal warnings in most cases. I believe in making a positive contact with violators. A lot depends on the violation, wearing a seatbelt, prior traffic tickets and of course attitude. I have heard some interesting excuses for traffic infractions....my favorite... "I was on my way home to watch Hill Street Blues". However, I preferred that people would just own up or even say they didn't realize that they were speeding or whatever.
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  #33  
Old 11-07-2013, 01:06 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauicoug View Post
Not to beat a dead horse here....but, I never met another cop who was jealous of BMW drivers, maybe a Porsche(heh,Heh). There is no value to falsifying a traffic citation, why bother to stop someone, unless you have probable cause. I always have to laugh about people saying we arrest for no reason...who wants to write all of the reports. As far as speed cameras and red light cameras, I think they are great. However, tons of people hate them, because they forget they are there, then get a citation in the mail and flip out. I was living in the Phoenix valley, which several years ago, had several of the most dangerous intersections in the US. There are not enough police to deal with all of the traffic violators. After the red light cameras were installed, the follow up study showed that accidents were down, which is the whole reason for traffic enforcement. I am sure that many people think they can handle a car and should drive as fast as they want....but, plenty can not, regardless of what kind of car they drive.
I agree with your perspective. I have driven on some of the most dangerous roads in the world overseas including a virtual single track mountain road in Northern Iraq up the side of the mountain with no shoulders and a couple thousand feet drop. Look up AMADIYA, IRAQ. I challenge anybody to make it safely up to Amadiya and back without praying enroute for deliverance. Our performance cars are for the sheer joy of their handling not, I humbly suggest, due their top speed. I am passed by all ages, eating sandwiches, on cellphones,tail-gating. I feel sorry for the police.What a zoo. USA Interstate highways are generally safe and can handle speed limits but who needs to drive at 100mpg or more. I heard Bimmerers are stuck up and posers and so forth but Bimmerfest proves we are just lovers of quality BMW autos. That is no crime. No citation for that except plaudits!! Radar devices have their uses too. but excessive speed sometimes results in the OPs experience which isnt fun. It could be worse!
I am qualified to state these things: In last 55 years, I have driven in some 30 countries, never had an accident by my fault(was rear-ended once) and never had a speeding ticket. Not bragging.Just grateful to be around to drive the wonderful 5 series cars. And I pray before I go on a trip. No wonder.
AL

Last edited by Fastpaddler; 11-07-2013 at 01:20 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-07-2013, 04:14 PM
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Popoemt Popoemt is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwonly View Post
But could I ask him to show me the laser print out record that indicates my speed? thanks.
The Lidar (laser speed unit) guns don't "print" anything out, it has a digital display on the gun that keeps the speed on the display for a certain time limit (5 minutes +/-). You can ask the officer to see the display, although in California there is zero requirement for the officer to do this.

I would argue you should take it to trial, the chance the officer shows up is prob 65%+/-, so you have a pretty good chance of them not showing up on the day of court. You can request through the officers department a copy of his training record for Radar/Lidar (there is no statutory requirement to operate it, but you can argue in court to the commissioner/judge that the officer wasn't trained properly). Lidar training in California is pointing the laser at the license plate to get a more accurate reading, and most Lidars are accurate up to about 1000 feet (a little less than a quarter mile away).

I am not sure of "crooked" cops who are stopping and issuing citations to BMW owners, in my experience most cops hate issuing traffic cites and are only required by their departments to issue citations or get a bad eval, which puts their $/time/promotion opportunities at risk. The quota idea is an old cop-out to those who get caught, CA has nothing of the sort, enforcing traffic laws is a part of the job of being a cop, whether they like it or not, if you have a defined responsibility at work, and decide one day not to do some of those responsibilities, then one day your supervisor is going to ask whats up, tell you to start doing it, and if you don't then you face losing your job... I always love the "Making your quota today huh chief?"... Yep, you got me...*which by the way, is a perfect time to realize your chances of getting out of that ticket in particular went from 50/50 to zero...

Sum it up: Set a traffic court date, request the officers training record on Radar-Laser Operator, show up to the court date (this is very important), don't make any admissions while the officer is testifying, don't roll your eyes, don't hem and haw, be respectful, wear a suit, tell the judge commissioner your side if you have one (California took away the authority to reduce tickets a few years back, so you can't go and ask for a reduction in fine $ anymore), and accept whatever happens as you were "speeding" and you got caught (not that you weren't accepting responsibility).

Good luck and let us know how it goes... or what path you take!
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Last edited by Popoemt; 11-07-2013 at 04:22 PM.
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  #35  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:18 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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Even I was a bit surprised to learn that if the speed limit is say, 60mph and you pass a car or cars at 70 to safely pull back in especially on a single lane each way road, you are technically speeding and can be ticketed. I find this stupid really and it is clearly unsafe to creep past a slower than posted speed car and then creep back in again. Something wrong with this in my view. While I rarely exceed the speed limit by more than a couple of mpg it seems that the OP has a legitimate bone of contention if the officer has NO record of his alleged speeding.if it was a single lane road with cars travelling the speed limit, I repeat the speed limit then if the OP passed at xxx speed a police officer might be inclined to record his speed.If the traffic is too slow then I doubt it somehow. It is a subjective call on the part of the officer.
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  #36  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastpaddler View Post
Even I was a bit surprised to learn that if the speed limit is say, 60mph and you pass a car or cars at 70 to safely pull back in especially on a single lane each way road, you are technically speeding and can be ticketed. I find this stupid really and it is clearly unsafe to creep past a slower than posted speed car and then creep back in again. Something wrong with this in my view. While I rarely exceed the speed limit by more than a couple of mpg it seems that the OP has a legitimate bone of contention if the officer has NO record of his alleged speeding.if it was a single lane road with cars travelling the speed limit, I repeat the speed limit then if the OP passed at xxx speed a police officer might be inclined to record his speed.If the traffic is too slow then I doubt it somehow. It is a subjective call on the part of the officer.
The "record" of the speeding is the officers observations, the speed displayed on the lidar gun, and the officers training and experience. The area this ticket was issued is a 6 lane highway, 3 lanes each direction with a max speed of 55 in the construction and 65 outside that.

Some officers don't even need a lidar gun, you can be certified as an expert in speed violations and cite based on your estimation of the vehicles speed, backed up by the radar/lidar gun, with your expertise as the deciding factor on the true speed.


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Last edited by Popoemt; 11-07-2013 at 05:45 PM.
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  #37  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:06 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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I see! 6 lanes, 3 each way,eh. Hmm. I think perhaps the OP has a problem in this case. Still, people do fight tickets for reasons such as calibration of the lidar system and, in the OPs case his perceived understanding that there was no printed record of his excessive speeding. Since I have never been stopped for speeding I can only speculate. Passing a line of cars in a reduced speed zone is a likely prescription for problems. One of my relatives was followed by two off-duty police officers in their private vehicle. He was pulled over and ticketed for speeding.No radar in their car as it was a personal vehicle. He just paid up. Some would fight that type of ticketing.
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  #38  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:15 PM
dpouncey dpouncey is offline
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If you know you going to speed buy the Beltronic StiR Plus with the AL Priority laser defense. The AL is sold as a parking sensor and can be upgraded to a laser defense thru USB. Also 100% undetectable.
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  #39  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:10 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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It would be good to get self certified as an expert in speed violations so you can directly contradict the officers testimony.

These qualifications seem bogus to me.


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  #40  
Old 11-07-2013, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
It would be good to get self certified as an expert in speed violations so you can directly contradict the officers testimony.

These qualifications seem bogus to me.


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It's a week long class, certified by the state of California, is considered a scientific measurement of speed, and is considered valid in all state courts, not bogus in any way, it's not like we wave a magic wand and certify everyone, in fact, half of the class usually fails out 1/2 through the class...


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  #41  
Old 11-07-2013, 11:59 PM
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Excuse me officer, I am a self certified expert in speed violation, your record of my speeding is false. Instead of doing 89 I was actually doing 97.
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  #42  
Old 11-08-2013, 04:36 AM
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I would like to know who has received a speeding ticket for while traveling at the posted speed limit I admit I do not but bythe same token have a clean record. If I get pulled over I got caught I knew I was taking a chance. A lot has to do with your attitude when pulled over the cop has a. 9mm and you drivers liscensce on him are you really going to win with an attitude? Has anybody here ever given in to the person giving them attitude be a a teenager, spouse coworker etc. a sincere apology and thanking the officer for the job they do has always worked for me ok maybe a PBA card once or twice as well. Now the quota thing who here is not judged in there job if they fall below the median of what everybody else is producing?
Many of us willingly speed yet blame the police for something if we get caught. Take responsibility for your own actions and get over it.
That is all
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  #43  
Old 11-08-2013, 05:00 AM
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My issue with all of this is the ridiculous 55mph speed limit in most of this country. My wife and I just got back from ED a few months back and let's just say I didn't want to come back home and drive here again after that experience! I've gone faster on my downhill skis (62 mph) then I legally can on our roadways here in America. That's just insane. To top if off people in America have very poor driving skills. They don't understand the rules of the road and certainly can't/won't follow them. Come on a 15 question "quiz" and parallel parking exam for a drivers license. I think there should be a little more involved then that. The system in Germany is so much more advanced. Congestion dictates the speed limit or lack there of, the roadways are constantly being repaired and everyone gets proper driver training before getting there license.


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  #44  
Old 11-08-2013, 05:35 AM
wake wake is offline
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Originally Posted by MasterYoda View Post
My issue with all of this is the ridiculous 55mph speed limit in most of this country. My wife and I just got back from ED a few months back and let's just say I didn't want to come back home and drive here again after that experience! I've gone faster on my downhill skis (62 mph) then I legally can on our roadways here in America. That's just insane. To top if off people in America have very poor driving skills. They don't understand the rules of the road and certainly can't/won't follow them. Come on a 15 question "quiz" and parallel parking exam for a drivers license. I think there should be a little more involved then that. The system in Germany is so much more advanced. Congestion dictates the speed limit or lack there of, the roadways are constantly being repaired and everyone gets proper driver training before getting there license.


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It's not most of the country, get out of the Northeast and driving can become much more enjoyable. 55 MPH on the highway is unusual around here.
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  #45  
Old 11-08-2013, 06:04 AM
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MasterYoda MasterYoda is offline
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Originally Posted by wake View Post
It's not most of the country, get out of the Northeast and driving can become much more enjoyable. 55 MPH on the highway is unusual around here.
Ok. Even 65 or 75 mph on an open highway with modern cars is too slow in my opinion Cops in other parts of the country will then ticket you for being over the limit by a few mph!


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  #46  
Old 11-08-2013, 08:33 AM
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Popoemt Popoemt is online now
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Originally Posted by MasterYoda View Post
My issue with all of this is the ridiculous 55mph speed limit in most of this country. My wife and I just got back from ED a few months back and let's just say I didn't want to come back home and drive here again after that experience! I've gone faster on my downhill skis (62 mph) then I legally can on our roadways here in America. That's just insane. To top if off people in America have very poor driving skills. They don't understand the rules of the road and certainly can't/won't follow them. Come on a 15 question "quiz" and parallel parking exam for a drivers license. I think there should be a little more involved then that. The system in Germany is so much more advanced. Congestion dictates the speed limit or lack there of, the roadways are constantly being repaired and everyone gets proper driver training before getting there license.
+1, well said!
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  #47  
Old 11-08-2013, 08:42 AM
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madurodave madurodave is offline
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Originally Posted by wake View Post
It's not most of the country, get out of the Northeast and driving can become much more enjoyable. 55 MPH on the highway is unusual around here.
I thought the speed limit is 85 in the Northeast? Seems like it every morning!

There's even a crazy Smart car driver pushing that thing 90+!


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  #48  
Old 11-08-2013, 09:10 AM
redbull21 redbull21 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bmwonly View Post
Was on HWY 580 today, cars were about 75+ mph, I went ahead to pass a suv, then saw 2 cops parked on the right side, about 600 ft away, I reduced to 75, still pulled over for a ticket, he said I was at 89mph, he said he used laser, but didn't print the record, my 8500 gave me nothing, I used 8500 and V1 on my cars for last few years, zero ticket, I doubt he used laser or radar, maybe just by eyes? anyone had like this before? should I ask him for the laser record before I sign the ticket? any suggestion for better laser detector? like 9500ix or Max? thanks in advance!
You might want to contact one of those attorneys that defends speeding tickets. Don't have the link handy. In this case because the cop would not provide the proof you asked for, maybe the lawyer could get it thrown out.

I was going down 880 through Hayward towards San Jose last week with my trusty V1 turned on. I was doing about 82 and happened to notice a cop in the center divide up ahead with a laser gun trained on my lane. I immediately started to brake hard, and just as I did the V1 went off with a laser warning that continued as I was slowing down. The cop didn't come after me, so I guess by the time he had a good read I was below his ticket threshold.

It's hard to beat the V1, but I don't think any detector provides perfect laser protection. I was very lucky to have spotted him a few seconds early.
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  #49  
Old 11-08-2013, 09:37 AM
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Dr. 328xi Dr. 328xi is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Speed enforcement in the US is a very poor system of justice and doesn't live up to the standard America should aspire to as a beacon of liberty.
That's because it isn't really a system of justice, but rather a source of revenue. If it were truly about safety as is claimed, the fines would be established in ways to better dissuade speeding (higher fines, tiered fines for repeat offenders, license suspension), but since the system is set up to have a reasonably affordable cost, it is clearly just a money maker. Catch the speeder, collect a few bucks, put him back on the road to do it again. If the system is ever adjusted to be more about justice and safety, we'll see that revenue made up elsewhere...taxes, license plate fees, drivers license fees...something.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:49 AM
Bmwonly Bmwonly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull21 View Post
You might want to contact one of those attorneys that defends speeding tickets. Don't have the link handy. In this case because the cop would not provide the proof you asked for, maybe the lawyer could get it thrown out.

I was going down 880 through Hayward towards San Jose last week with my trusty V1 turned on. I was doing about 82 and happened to notice a cop in the center divide up ahead with a laser gun trained on my lane. I immediately started to brake hard, and just as I did the V1 went off with a laser warning that continued as I was slowing down. The cop didn't come after me, so I guess by the time he had a good read I was below his ticket threshold.

It's hard to beat the V1, but I don't think any detector provides perfect laser protection. I was very lucky to have spotted him a few seconds early.

I wasn't sure I did 89, everyone were at 15-20+ over 55 limit there, I thought I did 80-85, that's why I asked for the laser display record. I haven't got any ticket last four years, before that I got it every year, 8500 and V1 saved me many times, V1 is on my F10 M5, so I just bought a MAX to replace 8500 yesterday, will see how it will perform.
For the ticket, I just don't have the time to deal, like in the past, just pay online, thanks for everyone's advice!

Last edited by Bmwonly; 11-08-2013 at 10:24 AM.
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