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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 11-14-2013, 06:52 AM
mad335i mad335i is offline
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Originally Posted by EdCT View Post
The first year for Z4's was 2003.
You are right mine was a 03 Z4 3.0
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  #77  
Old 11-14-2013, 07:08 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I was not under the impression that the 4 Series was positioned to be completely above the 3 Series. It's my understanding that it is merely the coupe version of the 3 Series sedan, just as the Audi 5 Series is the coupe version of their 4 Series sedan.
THey've always charged a premium for the coupe, so its always been a slightly more "premium" positioning. Lower volume, more "exclusive" etc. You'd never see them try to sell a 420i "lease special" here. People buying the coupe are willing to sacrifice some practicality for a nicer design so almost by definition its more of a luxury product.
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  #78  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I was not under the impression that the 4 Series was positioned to be completely above the 3 Series. It's my understanding that it is merely the coupe version of the 3 Series sedan, just as the Audi 5 Series is the coupe version of their 4 Series sedan.
Unless the concept of the Series have changed or only applies to anything other than the 3- and the 4-Series, the whole idea of a Series has been to separate from the other in price and category, i.e. the higher the Series number the higher the price and luxury category.

Although BMW somewhat broke the Series concept with the 6-Series -it is more expensive than a comparable 7-Series- still the 6-Series is not the Coupe version of the 5-Series although they do share the same chassis.

I do think that BMW made a mistake on the 4-Series by following the Audi scheme too close. There was no need for that from an image perpective. But surely it is cheaper to do so.

Last edited by Technic; 11-14-2013 at 08:02 AM.
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  #79  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:16 AM
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Absolutely. Why exactly did they separate the coupe and sedan lines only to put a sedan in the coupe line?
So true ...

There must be a new crop of Harvard MBA's at BMW who know things about marketing we plebeians haven't yet figured out.
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  #80  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bmw325 View Post
THey've always charged a premium for the coupe, so its always been a slightly more "premium" positioning. Lower volume, more "exclusive" etc. You'd never see them try to sell a 420i "lease special" here. People buying the coupe are willing to sacrifice some practicality for a nicer design so almost by definition its more of a luxury product.
Looks like the thinking is 1 and 3 series are the somewhat boiler-plate pragmatic designs, while the 2 and 4 series will be the fun with some flare spin-offs - hence it sort of makes sense to see a 4 door sedan marketed as a coupe, as dumb as that is ...

Does this mean the 1 series will come as a hatchback? Let's hope.
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  #81  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:29 AM
sf_loft sf_loft is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I was not under the impression that the 4 Series was positioned to be completely above the 3 Series. It's my understanding that it is merely the coupe version of the 3 Series sedan, just as the Audi 5 Series is the coupe version of their 4 Series sedan.
It's positioned above, just look at the price premium on the A5 vs. A4. Well actually even the E92 had a slight premium over the E90. I wished the 4 series was similar to how the 5 and 6 series differ. If you look at an F10 interior vs. the F12, the interior differs and the F12 just seem a notch more expensive. With the 4 series, it's an identical swap.

Comparing the Audi 4 and 5, there is a slight difference in the interior, but one didn't look higher end than the other.
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  #82  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
It's positioned above, just look at the price premium on the A5 vs. A4. Well actually even the E92 had a slight premium over the E90. I wished the 4 series was similar to how the 5 and 6 series differ. If you look at an F10 interior vs. the F12, the interior differs and the F12 just seem a notch more expensive. With the 4 series, it's an identical swap.

Comparing the Audi 4 and 5, there is a slight difference in the interior, but one didn't look higher end than the other.
I haven't recently looked at the price difference between the A5 versus the A4, but back in 2011, the difference seemed to be more because of the engines? Was there much of a price difference when they shipped with the same engines in 2012-13?

There has been a price premium for coupes versus sedans with most manufacturers over the years. I just thought it was because it cost more to produce the coupes due to a more limited demand as compared to the sedans, more so than any premium offering?
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Last edited by beden1; 11-14-2013 at 09:24 PM.
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  #83  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
It's positioned above, just look at the price premium on the A5 vs. A4. Well actually even the E92 had a slight premium over the E90. I wished the 4 series was similar to how the 5 and 6 series differ. If you look at an F10 interior vs. the F12, the interior differs and the F12 just seem a notch more expensive. With the 4 series, it's an identical swap.

Comparing the Audi 4 and 5, there is a slight difference in the interior, but one didn't look higher end than the other.
Back in the 1980s, the BMW 6 Series was positioned and priced as it's own standalone series and was not considered to be a coupe version of the 5 Series. I think that's why you see upgrades in the interior versus the 5 Series today.
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  #84  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:55 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
It's positioned above, just look at the price premium on the A5 vs. A4. Well actually even the E92 had a slight premium over the E90. I wished the 4 series was similar to how the 5 and 6 series differ. If you look at an F10 interior vs. the F12, the interior differs and the F12 just seem a notch more expensive. With the 4 series, it's an identical swap.

Comparing the Audi 4 and 5, there is a slight difference in the interior, but one didn't look higher end than the other.
There is like $15-20k between the 5 and 6. People are whining about the $2500 or so between the 3 and 4.
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  #85  
Old 11-14-2013, 09:00 AM
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There is like $15-20k between the 5 and 6. People are whining about the $2500 or so between the 3 and 4.
I saw an M6 convertible and an M5 on the showroom floor at my local dealership this week. From memory, and without comparing options, the M6 vert had a sticker of just over $125,000 and the M5 was at $115,000. I was surprised there was not more of a price difference between the two, especially for the vert option?

I had not looked at the higher end BMWs in a while and was shocked at the sticker prices. Car prices in general are getting completely bonkers.
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  #86  
Old 11-14-2013, 03:25 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I saw an M6 convertible and an M5 on the showroom floor at my local dealership this week. From memory, and without comparing options, the M6 vert had a sticker of just over $125,000 and the M5 was at $115,000. I was surprised there was not more of a price difference between the two, especially for the vert option?

I had not looked at the higher end BMWs in a while and was shocked at the sticker prices. Car prices in general are getting completely bonkers.
That delta is much smaller.

Look at a 640 msrp vs a 535. It's $15-20k. So people want the two cars to be different, well you get it but for a cost. People want the 3 and 4 to be different, but don't want to pay much difference. Can't have both.
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  #87  
Old 11-14-2013, 04:46 PM
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Technic Technic is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
That delta is much smaller.

Look at a 640 msrp vs a 535. It's $15-20k. So people want the two cars to be different, well you get it but for a cost. People want the 3 and 4 to be different, but don't want to pay much difference. Can't have both.
I don't think that there is any complaining about the 4-Series pricing here -if anything, you brought it up. To me, there is no sense in creating a new Series if fundamentally not only it is the same as the other Series but now you are getting less distinction than when they were part of each other.

Like BMW spent most of the money in marketing and not in the car itself.
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  #88  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:08 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I don't think that there is any complaining about the 4-Series pricing here -if anything, you brought it up. To me, there is no sense in creating a new Series if fundamentally not only it is the same as the other Series but now you are getting less distinction than when they were part of each other.

Like BMW spent most of the money in marketing and not in the car itself.
There has been 4 series pricing complaints on here this week as well as on the other forums. It's not something I would bring it up, I have no horse in the race.

I don't get your comment complaint in the fact that the price did not rise enough to make the 4 series anything other than a 3 series with two doors like it's always been. It's putting too much into the number 4 as if it somehow has changed what the E90/92 was. From the looks of it, the gap is only an extra $1000-1500 tops in terms of the gap between 2 and 4 door variants of nearly identical cars. I could see everyone up in arms if it was $5k plus and getting the same damn interior and drivetrain.
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  #89  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
There has been 4 series pricing complaints on here this week as well as on the other forums. It's not something I would bring it up, I have no horse in the race.

I don't get your comment complaint in the fact that the price did not rise enough to make the 4 series anything other than a 3 series with two doors like it's always been. It's putting too much into the number 4 as if it somehow has changed what the E90/92 was. From the looks of it, the gap is only an extra $1000-1500 tops in terms of the gap between 2 and 4 door variants of nearly identical cars. I could see everyone up in arms if it was $5k plus and getting the same damn interior and drivetrain.
BMW is the one saying that the 4-Series is something different, not me.

I just questioning it.
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  #90  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:56 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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BMW is the one saying that the 4-Series is something different, not me.

I just questioning it.
BMW is a company, they have a marketing team. The marketing teams JOB is to do what they did with the 4 series, make it sound like something special, to be worthy of the extra money they command for it.

So let BMW say whatever they want. It's people taking the marketing to heart that I just don't get. If everything about the F32 was how it is now but called a 3, so many people would have very little to say about it.
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  #91  
Old 11-14-2013, 06:14 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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+1

I guess the guy is saying BMW is full of B.S. and makes up crap to sell cars. Seems like BMW is more marketing now then making actually products that speak for themselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by technic View Post
i don't think that there is any complaining about the 4-series pricing here -if anything, you brought it up. To me, there is no sense in creating a new series if fundamentally not only it is the same as the other series but now you are getting less distinction than when they were part of each other.

Like bmw spent most of the money in marketing and not in the car itself.

Last edited by Kayani_1; 11-14-2013 at 06:19 PM.
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  #92  
Old 11-14-2013, 06:26 PM
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K-A K-A is online now
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I don't think that there is any complaining about the 4-Series pricing here -if anything, you brought it up. To me, there is no sense in creating a new Series if fundamentally not only it is the same as the other Series but now you are getting less distinction than when they were part of each other.
I agree. Fact is the E90 and E92 were a lot more different from each other than the 3 and "4" are. The 3/4 are practically identical save for one being a 2 door and one being a 4, the 4 Series also has a direct rear of the 3, which is quite utilitarian looking for a Coupe, IMO. The E92 had totally differently shaped taillights amongst possibly other things.

BMW went too far on the marketing-schtick tip on this one, IMO they better be careful or else all the marketing fluff will reverse on them and people will stop taking them seriously at all.
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  #93  
Old 11-14-2013, 06:31 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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I agree. Fact is the E90 and E92 were a lot more different from each other than the 3 and "4" are. The 3/4 are practically identical save for one being a 2 door and one being a 4, the 4 Series also has a direct rear of the 3, which is quite utilitarian looking for a Coupe, IMO. The E92 had totally differently shaped taillights amongst possibly other things.

BMW went too far on the marketing-schtick tip on this one, IMO they better be careful or else all the marketing fluff will reverse on them and people will stop taking them seriously at all.

Huh?

I am pretty sure if you looked up shared part numbers of E90 vs E92 and F30 vs F32 the percentages would be nearly identical.
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  #94  
Old 11-14-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Huh?

I am pretty sure if you looked up shared part numbers of E90 vs E92 and F30 vs F32 the percentages would be nearly identical.
I mean they looked more separated from each other. The fact that the E92 had completely different taillights by design went a long way into giving the E92 its own identity. It also seemed to have more of a different front from the E90 than the F32 does from the F30 (which seems identical.... but then again, I'm not sure if the E90 and E92 had identical fronts or if I just imagine it that way).
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  #95  
Old 11-14-2013, 06:45 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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I mean they looked more separated from each other. The fact that the E92 had completely different taillights by design went a long way into giving the E92 its own identity. It also seemed to have more of a different front from the E90 than the F32 does from the F30 (which seems identical.... but then again, I'm not sure if the E90 and E92 had identical fronts or if I just imagine it that way).
Maybe I am too connected, but the amount that the E90 and E92 visually differed is not jarring compared to the F30 and F32 differing. For 20+ years now, the 4dr 3's were turned into 2dr's with practically no real distinction. I just see the F30/F32 as falling in line with what I have seen being done since the E30.
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  #96  
Old 11-14-2013, 07:55 PM
M34Lnch M34Lnch is offline
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Yes. I agree. Both lend to a look of cheap plastic. If I remember correctly there are only really 2 options for the trim with the black leather m sport. Pretty poor for the extra money. I'm half tempted to replace it with the m performance carbon fiber trim even though it's only a lease.

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I am in the same boat. Is the m performance carbon fiber trim available for the 4 series?
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  #97  
Old 11-14-2013, 07:59 PM
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I am in the same boat. Is the m performance carbon fiber trim available for the 4 series?
I'm not sure if it is yet, but it should be at some point.
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  #98  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:37 PM
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OMG!!! (I hate that term, but I can't think of anything else that fits this thread.) This thread has so much crap information and just crap in general it's almost beyond belief. I'd really like to go through it and address each crap point, but it's just not worth the energy. The really sad thing is that uninformed newbies are going to read this thread and believe even half of it is true.

Newbies, just flush this thread and go check out the car for yourself.
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  #99  
Old 11-14-2013, 09:02 PM
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Then there's this guy ....

Quote:
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Have just had an opportunity to test-drive the 428xi. At first I didn't think of it seriously; my 528xi being a compromise of performance (vs. I6 models) towards comfort and prestige the 5-series offers, I could only imagine going "down" one class (i.e. from 5 down to 4) if the latter was equipped with the larger engine (i.e. 435xi)...BUT, while actually driving it, I found the 428xi absolutely wonderful when compared to my F10 with the same engine! Not only the handling (M-sport suspension, low CoG), but - above all - the drivetrain's responsiveness have left me a very frustrated 528xi owner. Only today did I witness the true potential of BMW's 4-banger, and understood all the hype around it (and the 4-cylinder Engine of the Year Award).

Of course I realize it's exactly the same engine I have, simply implemented much wiser due to:

- the SAT's gearing ratios designed with sportiness in mind from the very beginning
- the throttle response being day and night difference to my laggy 528xi implementation (in fact, in the 428xi's Comfort mode it's more direct than mine in Sport+ mode!!!)
- the chassis, lower and lighter, also having been designed with sporty rather than comfy virtues in mind (why can't BMW combine the sport suspension with xDrive on F10 beats me; the 4-er has it and now the 2-er does, too)...

Even the interior - so highly appraised in the F10 - has nothing left to be desired in the 428xi. Smaller, yes - but otherwise the same feeling of quality. Even the same BMW smell

All in all - in spite of my 59 years of age and serious spine condition - I'm determined to do all I only can in order to "downgrade" from the prestigious F10 to the 4-series. Of course, a 435xi would be even better, but due to the crazy "luxury tax" we have here on anything larger than 2.0l displacement - it's unfortunately above my financial means.
.... but he's just some old Polock who's probably just had too much vodka. He can't possibly know what he's talking about.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 11-14-2013 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:05 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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Mein Auto: Graphite & Silver E92/E60
You are correct and not imagining the E92 and E90 look very different specially in non M versions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I mean they looked more separated from each other. The fact that the E92 had completely different taillights by design went a long way into giving the E92 its own identity. It also seemed to have more of a different front from the E90 than the F32 does from the F30 (which seems identical.... but then again, I'm not sure if the E90 and E92 had identical fronts or if I just imagine it that way).
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