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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #101  
Old 11-15-2013, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I agree. Fact is the E90 and E92 were a lot more different from each other than the 3 and "4" are. The 3/4 are practically identical save for one being a 2 door and one being a 4, the 4 Series also has a direct rear of the 3, which is quite utilitarian looking for a Coupe, IMO. The E92 had totally differently shaped taillights amongst possibly other things.

BMW went too far on the marketing-schtick tip on this one, IMO they better be careful or else all the marketing fluff will reverse on them and people will stop taking them seriously at all.
I read somewhere back in 2006/2007 that the E92 was supposed to be the 4-Series but BMW changed its mind at the last moment.
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  #102  
Old 11-15-2013, 06:57 AM
mad335i mad335i is offline
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All I hear is people whining about BMW 3 series and the 4 series, you guys are complaining about why its more expensive, when it seems cheaply built, plastic is used etc etc. Well don't buy it then. I just sold my 335i that i bought in 07 (new) loved every aspect of the car. I picked up a 435i Manual and to my surprise it has more room in the back seat. It is wider and longer. The M package gives it better lines than the old coupe. I had a choice of purchasing a coupe 335i back in 07 and I felt cramped, i am 6.2 and 195 and if anyone was to sit behind me in 335 they were unable to. That may friend is big change in it self. I do not find it like its got more plastic than my old 335. Nicely built car. I would not be caught dead in a GLORIFIED VW oops I meant AUDI.
Don't trade in your 335 for a 435 the lesser cars on the road the better and unique for me. You guys are all absolutely correct 435 is BMW marketing sham.
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  #103  
Old 11-15-2013, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mad335i View Post
All I hear is people whining about BMW 3 series and the 4 series, you guys are complaining about why its more expensive, when it seems cheaply built, plastic is used etc etc. Well don't buy it then. I just sold my 335i that i bought in 07 (new) loved every aspect of the car. I picked up a 435i Manual and to my surprise it has more room in the back seat. It is wider and longer. The M package gives it better lines than the old coupe. I had a choice of purchasing a coupe 335i back in 07 and I felt cramped, i am 6.2 and 195 and if anyone was to sit behind me in 335 they were unable to. That may friend is big change in it self. I do not find it like its got more plastic than my old 335. Nicely built car. I would not be caught dead in a GLORIFIED VW oops I meant AUDI.
Don't trade in your 335 for a 435 the lesser cars on the road the better and unique for me. You guys are all absolutely correct 435 is BMW marketing sham.
If "all you hear" is whining about "BMW 3 series and the 4 series, you guys are complaining about why its more expensive, when it seems cheaply built, plastic is used etc etc. " then don't participate in a thread titled " 4 series, some interior materials downgraded".

With respect, it's a complaint thread
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  #104  
Old 11-15-2013, 07:40 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdCT View Post
If "all you hear" is whining about[I] "BMW 3 series and the 4 series, you guys are complaining about why its more expensive, when it seems cheaply built, plastic is used etc etc. " then don't participate in a thread titled " 4 series, some interior materials downgraded".

With respect, it's a complaint thread
Yes it is . We do these well here.

However, as the owner of 2 E90's and now an F30, I disagree that the interiors are actually cheaper now than then. I'd like to see quantifiable proof of this. I guess you can say that the molded plastic around the AT looks cheap but I have a MT so there is not as much plastic there. I would say that the quality of the leather around the shifter is thinner than in my E90 and that the leather overall is not a nicely tucked in a few spots.

But take a look at the top of the dash and the piece that extends to meet the console. These are extremely high quality pieces, and the mold used to make these is intricate and probably very expensive as is the material used in this piece. The molded headliner (anthracite in mine) is very well made. The turn signal stalk is a far better piece than that in the E90. The various knobs and buttons are high quality and typically BMW, with a positive, substantial feel. Another example is the glovebox door which is beautifully damped and designed.

I find the aluminum finisher to be on the cheap side (my car has anthracite trim and the aluminum finishers).

I suppose if you order a base model with aluminum trim and a beige interior it might look low rent. But then again, who told you to do that?

One last comment, if you push on a plastic trim piece and it flexes, what do you really expect?
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  #105  
Old 11-15-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Yes it is . We do these well here.

However, as the owner of 2 E90's and now an F30, I disagree that the interiors are actually cheaper now than then. I'd like to see quantifiable proof of this. I guess you can say that the molded plastic around the AT looks cheap but I have a MT so there is not as much plastic there. I would say that the quality of the leather around the shifter is thinner than in my E90 and that the leather overall is not a nicely tucked in a few spots.

But take a look at the top of the dash and the piece that extends to meet the console. These are extremely high quality pieces, and the mold used to make these is intricate and probably very expensive as is the material used in this piece. The molded headliner (anthracite in mine) is very well made. The turn signal stalk is a far better piece than that in the E90. The various knobs and buttons are high quality and typically BMW, with a positive, substantial feel. Another example is the glovebox door which is beautifully damped and designed.

I find the aluminum finisher to be on the cheap side (my car has anthracite trim and the aluminum finishers).

I suppose if you order a base model with aluminum trim and a beige interior it might look low rent. But then again, who told you to do that?

One last comment, if you push on a plastic trim piece and it flexes, what do you really expect?
I haven't spent any appreciable time in the F30, but I recall getting into early E90's and not feeling the interior compared favorably to my E46 - especially around the center console area and kick plates on the rocker panels where there was considerable cheapening.

At this point, I can accept a certain amount of cheapness as a fact of life, but it's hard for me to understand exactly why we have to "see it". We live in an era where there are many products built to look good that don't cost a lot to make or purchase - you see this in the home goods world - fake slate roofs, fake wood shingles ... etc., all designed to replace the formerly expensive real stuff, but look good and last a long time doing it.

Yet with cars, seemingly from all manufacturers, we get not only the cost-cutting, but we're constantly reminded of it by the junk plastics they use and how prominently displayed they are.
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  #106  
Old 11-15-2013, 08:41 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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4-series - some interior materials downgraded?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdCT View Post
I haven't spent any appreciable time in the F30, but I recall getting into early E90's and not feeling the interior compared favorably to my E46 - especially around the center console area and kick plates on the rocker panels where there was considerable cheapening.

At this point, I can accept a certain amount of cheapness as a fact of life, but it's hard for me to understand exactly why we have to "see it". We live in an era where there are many products built to look good that don't cost a lot to make or purchase - you see this in the home goods world - fake slate roofs, fake wood shingles ... etc., all designed to replace the formerly expensive real stuff, but look good and last a long time doing it.

Yet with cars, seemingly from all manufacturers, we get not only the cost-cutting, but we're constantly reminded of it by the junk plastics they use and how prominently displayed they are.
I agree with you. The increasingly cheaper content has been happening since the E46. While the F30 appears the same as the competition in terms of material quality I find the E90/92 to be a much nicer interior and a much better drivers car. I really doubt I will buy an F30 and I am strongly considering other BMW's or leaving the brand for Audi, Benz or Porsche.


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  #107  
Old 11-15-2013, 10:54 AM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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To be fair to BMW, there was a high-level of discontent over the very cheap interior of the e36. It didn't stand up to Audi's then gorgeous and luxurious b5 a4 - not even close.

BMW, when launching the e46, REALLY rectified this and delivered a simply outstanding interior in the e46 in both classic, timeless design and excellent materials.

The e90 then came along with a....at best....teutonic design (read: bland) that also had some cheaper parts. Not a ton, just some, combined with an unexciting but decent design for 2006.

We've seen this cycle before. And now Mercedes is supposed to be unveiling a revolutionary new C class in 2015. if they do, I'm pretty certain we'll see BMW revise the F30 and definitely improve the successor.

In addition, the f30 came out in 2011. Since then, BMW is now presenting the 3-series against the 1 and 2 series as a step up. So it will need to deliver a superior interior, albeit not at the 5-series level.
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  #108  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post

BMW, when launching the e46, REALLY rectified this and delivered a simply outstanding interior in the e46 in both classic, timeless design and excellent materials.
After 2 E36, I agree. To me, the E36 interior was the worst in apparent quality and materials in a premium car even back then. But damn it handled great.
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  #109  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:11 AM
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My favorite was the e36 m3, which had an amazing discrepancy between those beautiful vader seats and that chintzy dark gray plastic dash surround and glove box
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  #110  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:21 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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My favorite was the e36 m3, which had an amazing discrepancy between those beautiful vader seats and that chintzy dark gray plastic dash surround and glove box
My E36/7 is bad lol. Such great seats, the nice Nappa Leather. Everything else, so bad.

I have upgraded to Alcantara touch points for the door rests, arm rest, and will do matching seat inserts and dash panels, and have replaced black plastic e-brake button and door pulls with real metal. It helped, but man is it a losing battle.
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  #111  
Old 11-15-2013, 02:58 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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4-series - some interior materials downgraded?

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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
After 2 E36, I agree. To me, the E36 interior was the worst in apparent quality and materials in a premium car even back then. But damn it handled great.
True, hence my comment "since the E46". The E46 is tough to beat from an interior perspective....it was a perfect 3 series.


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  #112  
Old 11-15-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
True, hence my comment "since the E46". The E46 is tough to beat from an interior perspective....it was a perfect 3 series.


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Yeah, everything except the A pillars, C pillars, visors, and headliner with fabric that delaminated and sagged. A condition that didn't just affect a few cars here and there, but affected virtually every E46 in one way or another. Then there was the rubberized paint on the plastic trim pieces that pealed off and revealed the black plastic underneath. And then, of course, the cupholders in the center console - positioned just aft of the shifter, so shifting a manual was virtually impossible with a drink in place and the rearmost cupholder that could only be used if the arm rest was raised up at a 90 degree angle.

Oh, I almost forgot. The sunshade cover that was susceptible to having plastic clips break, allowing it to go off track and jam.

The E46 was wonderful in many ways, it had a fabulous dashboard design, but it was FAR from perfect.

Oh yeah, one other thing that carried over from the E36, the dying display pixels in the instrument cluster and the radio.

edit: oops, almost forgot - the felt window trim on the coupes that would lose its adhesion in hot weather and sag and prove almost impossible to successfully glue back in place.
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  #113  
Old 11-15-2013, 03:53 PM
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I just drove my E46 this morning after not sitting in it for a couple weeks. Before I hopped in I was thinking that I'd have a "man this feels old" moment when I got in. Surprisingly I did not, it's still a lovely, warm, friendly interior. However I personally do not find it to be any higher quality than my F30.

I'm not any kind of design or materials expert; I don't go out of my way to squish and rub interior surfaces. But to my eyes the F30 is just fine. It's obviously going for a more "designed" look, versus the simple and functional look of the E46. But I find both to be perfectly pleasant places to hang out.

If anything, my only knock on the F30 is that it doesn't feel 2 generations newer and improved vs the E46. It's like a small sideways shuffle to a newer and slightly more modern interior, not a huge leap forward. I think there's a lot of truth to the statement that it's a 30k interior in a 50k car. I'd be perfectly ok if BMW tacked another 1k onto the 335i premium (or the M-sport premium) and put it towards a different and better interior than other models.
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  #114  
Old 11-15-2013, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post

edit: oops, almost forgot - the felt window trim on the coupes that would lose its adhesion in hot weather and sag and prove almost impossible to successfully glue back in place.
That was a disgrace... after 5 years in the market, BMW (supplier) still was using a glue that stopped sticking after being exposed to the sun.

My 2-month old E46 M3 got both trims replaced under warranty back in 2004. They were supposed to be the "updated" trims. No other trim delaminated or sagged by the time I sold it in late 2007.
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  #115  
Old 11-15-2013, 04:58 PM
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That was a disgrace... after 5 years in the market, BMW (supplier) still was using a glue that stopped sticking after being exposed to the sun.

My 2-month old E46 M3 got both trims replaced under warranty back in 2004. They were supposed to be the "updated" trims. No other trim delaminated or sagged by the time I sold it in late 2007.
Are you sure? The lower part of the A pillars? If your A pillar fabric didn't sag/bunch up you may have had the only one that didn't. I honestly can't recall ever seeing an E46 that didn't have sagging/bunching fabric on the lower A pillar.
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  #116  
Old 11-15-2013, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Are you sure? The lower part of the A pillars? If your A pillar fabric didn't sag/bunch up you may have had the only one that didn't. I honestly can't recall ever seeing an E46 that didn't have sagging/bunching fabric on the lower A pillar.
Mine was a late 2004 so I guess that the only thing still messed up by then was the window trims.
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  #117  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:14 PM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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4-series - some interior materials downgraded?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Are you sure? The lower part of the A pillars? If your A pillar fabric didn't sag/bunch up you may have had the only one that didn't. I honestly can't recall ever seeing an E46 that didn't have sagging/bunching fabric on the lower A pillar.
My old e46 (2001) now has around 100k and is owned by my mother in law so I still see it. It doesn't have any sagging interior fabric.


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  #118  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:44 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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I have sat in more F30's then I would care to mention. So far each one of them was a disappointment in regards to overall interior fit and finish. I would have expected a upgrade in materials not just design. In fact to me the over all design is not that much more better specially if you are comparing an E92 vs F30 or F32. The plasticks around the center dash are cheaper and hard. The Nav screen does not look as elegant. The non sport steering looks horrible and does not feel good to hold. Maybe I have not sat in some one of special ordered F30 because I do not see what some of these folks claim is more improved as far as fit and finish goes and design is also mah.....nothing special or to brag about.

In comparison I am in agreement with you. The E46 and E39 to me felt very nice. They were simple but fit and finish was solid. I feel like we have been on a slippery slope since then and now it has gotten real bad.

To me it seems like all the effort of the engineers have been the i brand cars. The i8 interior looks great yet regular BMW's that are bread and butter are lagging behind.



Quote:
Originally Posted by EdCT View Post
I haven't spent any appreciable time in the F30, but I recall getting into early E90's and not feeling the interior compared favorably to my E46 - especially around the center console area and kick plates on the rocker panels where there was considerable cheapening.

At this point, I can accept a certain amount of cheapness as a fact of life, but it's hard for me to understand exactly why we have to "see it". We live in an era where there are many products built to look good that don't cost a lot to make or purchase - you see this in the home goods world - fake slate roofs, fake wood shingles ... etc., all designed to replace the formerly expensive real stuff, but look good and last a long time doing it.

Yet with cars, seemingly from all manufacturers, we get not only the cost-cutting, but we're constantly reminded of it by the junk plastics they use and how prominently displayed they are.
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  #119  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:46 PM
SteveL1 SteveL1 is offline
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A pillars are perfect on our '02 e46. Now the window trim is another matter. Major PITA!
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  #120  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:55 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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100% agreement.

The interior does not feel like it is 2 generations 14 years more advanced.




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Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post

If anything, my only knock on the F30 is that it doesn't feel 2 generations newer and improved vs the E46. It's like a small sideways shuffle to a newer and slightly more modern interior, not a huge leap forward. I think there's a lot of truth to the statement that it's a 30k interior in a 50k car. I'd be perfectly ok if BMW tacked another 1k onto the 335i premium (or the M-sport premium) and put it towards a different and better interior than other models.
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  #121  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:26 PM
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openwheelracing openwheelracing is offline
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Re: 4-series - some interior materials downgraded?

I agree, which is why I am leasing a 320i without any upgrades except sport package and lighting package. It gets the most important interior upgrade: m steering wheel and sport seat. All at a great price. I think my old LCI E90 had better overall interior material quality. F30 has gotten cheaper even in higher trims.

Last edited by openwheelracing; 11-15-2013 at 11:29 PM.
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  #122  
Old 11-16-2013, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
OMG!!! (I hate that term, but I can't think of anything else that fits this thread.) This thread has so much crap information and just crap in general it's almost beyond belief. I'd really like to go through it and address each crap point, but it's just not worth the energy. The really sad thing is that uninformed newbies are going to read this thread and believe even half of it is true.

Newbies, just flush this thread and go check out the car for yourself.
+1

In fact, I can't believe how much time I've wasted on this thread so far.
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  #123  
Old 11-16-2013, 08:05 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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4-series - some interior materials downgraded?

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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post
I agree, which is why I am leasing a 320i without any upgrades except sport package and lighting package. It gets the most important interior upgrade: m steering wheel and sport seat. All at a great price. I think my old LCI E90 had better overall interior material quality. F30 has gotten cheaper even in higher trims.
That's my thought as well. The f30's foibles are much easier to tolerate at the 320s price point. If you think of it as a slightly better driving mainstream family sedan it makes sense. And you're right - the 320 + sport package gets you the 2 most important features- the m sport wheel and the sport seats. You don't see those again in the lineup until you spend 6k more on a 328 msport line.


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  #124  
Old 11-16-2013, 08:46 AM
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That's my thought as well. The f30's foibles are much easier to tolerate at the 320s price point. If you think of it as a slightly better driving mainstream family sedan it makes sense. And you're right - the 320 + sport package gets you the 2 most important features- the m sport wheel and the sport seats. You don't see those again in the lineup until you spend 6k more on a 328 msport line.


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That concept is also in keeping with the car's original heritage - the E30, which was really a plain jane car in many respects - ordinary suspension on smallish wheels, sparse but durable interior (not unlike my sister's old '71 Super Beetle) and unpretentious breadbox styling.

The F30 is much larger than that car, of course, but the simpler the better works for me in the 3 series line.
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  #125  
Old 11-16-2013, 09:58 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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4-series - some interior materials downgraded?

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Originally Posted by bmw325 View Post
My old e46 (2001) now has around 100k and is owned by my mother in law so I still see it. It doesn't have any sagging interior fabric.


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Yes. I did not experience any of the issues these guys are mentioning and I owned 3 E46 models (325 sedan, 330 cic and m3 convertible). My only issues in those cars was the radios would fail....otherwise all three were trouble free. Maybe I got lucky.


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