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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 11-11-2013, 08:02 AM
Kab328xi Kab328xi is offline
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Thumbs down Dealership CPO Issues

Has anyone ever purchased a BMW Certified Pre-Owned only to find out that they sold you the car with 2.5mm tire tread (CPO Standard is 3mm). Any ideas what to do and can the dealership be 'reported' to someone? They aren't being too helpful. It is a formal BMW dealership here in Ontario. Thanks!
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Old 11-11-2013, 09:01 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kab328xi View Post
Has anyone ever purchased a BMW Certified Pre-Owned only to find out that they sold you the car with 2.5mm tire tread (CPO Standard is 3mm). Any ideas what to do and can the dealership be 'reported' to someone? They aren't being too helpful. It is a formal BMW dealership here in Ontario. Thanks!
I'm surprised the CPO requirement is 3 mm. Discount Tire recommends replacement at 5mm. With that said I think you would have a difficult time arguing a .5mm difference. IMO a better argument is why 3mm?
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:35 AM
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need4speed need4speed is offline
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Unless you pointed it out before you drove off the lot I think you are out of luck. N4S
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:32 PM
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pointandgo pointandgo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kab328xi View Post
Has anyone ever purchased a BMW Certified Pre-Owned only to find out that they sold you the car with 2.5mm tire tread (CPO Standard is 3mm). Any ideas what to do and can the dealership be 'reported' to someone? They aren't being too helpful. It is a formal BMW dealership here in Ontario. Thanks!
I presume that you are measuring accurately. Our BMW owner's manual has long recommended that the tires not drop below 3mm tread depth. CPO cars should certainly be subject to BMW's standard.

As the tire wear would be minimal depending on how many miles you've put on since delivery, I would point out BMW's recommendation to the dealership...and bring along an accurate tread depth gauge.
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:37 PM
RobertoCervezas RobertoCervezas is offline
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BMW CPO requires that the tires have at least half of their tread in order to pass the inspection.
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Old 11-11-2013, 02:11 PM
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pointandgo pointandgo is offline
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The BMW CPO checklist in front of me specifically states that the tires must be a "min. of 3mm."
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Old 11-11-2013, 08:44 PM
coyote95667 coyote95667 is offline
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I had the exact same situation. Tires just didn't look right so I took it to a GoodYear to get them measured. I went back to the dealership with a letter from the GoodYear shop recommending immediate replacement of the tires and showing that they were all at 2mm on the treads (I forget which edge it was). I also had a printout of the CPO standards.

BMW dealership took it into the garage to measure for themselves, gave me a slight hard time but finally they gave me 4 new tires.

I hope you get 4 new tires!
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:26 PM
fb88 fb88 is offline
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Or negotiate 50% off price on new tires...
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:04 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kab328xi View Post
Has anyone ever purchased a BMW Certified Pre-Owned only to find out that they sold you the car with 2.5mm tire tread (CPO Standard is 3mm). Any ideas what to do and can the dealership be 'reported' to someone? They aren't being too helpful. It is a formal BMW dealership here in Ontario. Thanks!

I, for one, am very 'taken a-back' by this shocking news. If I read you correctly, a used car dealer has been less than truthful.

How long have you owned your car?
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:59 AM
jayb328i jayb328i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kab328xi View Post
Has anyone ever purchased a BMW Certified Pre-Owned only to find out that they sold you the car with 2.5mm tire tread (CPO Standard is 3mm). Any ideas what to do and can the dealership be 'reported' to someone? They aren't being too helpful. It is a formal BMW dealership here in Ontario. Thanks!
The sale of a 2.5 mm tread on used cars in Ontario is legal. It passes the Ontario Safety Certificate for used cars. If you had concerns the time to raise them was BEFORE you bought the car, not the next day. How can one buy a car and not check the tires. Move on. They sold you a car that was legal in Ontario.

In my opinion, Ontario is very backwards in the regulations for tread. 2/32, even though legal, is dangerous. I change my tires at 5/32---and I seem to recall Tirerack saying 6/32 for winter snow. The Regs:

tread depth for Transport Canada is 1.5mm or 2/32.
A safety standards certificate (“Safety”), commonly referred to in short as “Safety”, is a inspection certificate presented upon passing the minimal safety standards for Ontario. A Safety, along with a drive clean certificate, is required to register a car with the Ministry of Transportation (“MTO”)to claim full ownership.
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2013, 05:10 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by jayb328i View Post
The sale of a 2.5 mm tread on used cars in Ontario is legal. It passes the Ontario Safety Certificate for used cars. If you had concerns the time to raise them was BEFORE you bought the car, not the next day. How can one buy a car and not check the tires. Move on. They sold you a car that was legal in Ontario.

In my opinion, Ontario is very backwards in the regulations for tread. 2/32, even though legal, is dangerous. I change my tires at 5/32---and I seem to recall Tirerack saying 6/32 for winter snow. The Regs:

tread depth for Transport Canada is 1.5mm or 2/32.
A safety standards certificate (“Safety”), commonly referred to in short as “Safety”, is a inspection certificate presented upon passing the minimal safety standards for Ontario. A Safety, along with a drive clean certificate, is required to register a car with the Ministry of Transportation (“MTO”)to claim full ownership.
The question isn't about what's legal but rather compliance with the BMW CPO requirements. Apparently the specification is 3mm (which seems rather low to me) and the car had tires with 2.5mm (which I have a hard time believing .5mm can accurately be measured).
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:18 AM
RobertoCervezas RobertoCervezas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
The BMW CPO checklist in front of me specifically states that the tires must be a "min. of 3mm."
Really? The CPO checklist that I have in front of me specifically states "minimum 3mm when measured from the TOP of wear indicators"

Quite a difference in meaning there. 3mm plus the 3 mm thicknes of the wear bars equals 6mm, which is about half of a tire's tread...
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:24 AM
jaj jaj is offline
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Seems to me that you have a legitimate gripe, regardless of whether you discovered it before or after driving off the lot. Clearly this is a condition that existed at the time of the deal, and the dealer should rectify the situation. I would think, too, that this is something BMW would weigh in on if you don't get satisfaction from the dealer. Good luck.
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2013, 07:50 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertoCervezas View Post
Really? The CPO checklist that I have in front of me specifically states "minimum 3mm when measured from the TOP of wear indicators"

Quite a difference in meaning there. 3mm plus the 3 mm thicknes of the wear bars equals 6mm, which is about half of a tire's tread...
I thought the wear bars were 2mm. Regardless this seems more inline with what I would expect from BMW.
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2013, 08:03 AM
RobertoCervezas RobertoCervezas is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
I thought the wear bars were 2mm. Regardless this seems more inline with what I would expect from BMW.
The wear bars may be 2mm thick. I was just guessing at how thick they were, but like you said it sounds like the OP got the short end of the stick.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2013, 10:46 AM
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Vanos4:12PM Vanos4:12PM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote95667 View Post
I had the exact same situation. Tires just didn't look right so I took it to a GoodYear to get them measured. I went back to the dealership with a letter from the GoodYear shop recommending immediate replacement of the tires and showing that they were all at 2mm on the treads (I forget which edge it was). I also had a printout of the CPO standards.

BMW dealership took it into the garage to measure for themselves, gave me a slight hard time but finally they gave me 4 new tires.

I hope you get 4 new tires!

Nice!!
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:14 AM
Norm37 Norm37 is offline
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Originally Posted by jayb328i View Post
I seem to recall Tirerack saying 6/32 for winter snow.
Yep and 4/32nds for summer and all season tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=5

Last edited by Norm37; 11-13-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:34 PM
jayb328i jayb328i is offline
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Originally Posted by Norm37 View Post
Yep and 4/32nds for summer and all season tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=5
For those who do not want to read the full article, in summary here is what it says:
(I rounded off the numbers to make it easier to compare)

HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO STOP AT 70 MPH (test car was a BMW)
NEW TIRES: 200 FEET
2/32 tires: 400 FEET
4/32 tires: 300 FEET

AND here is what Tirerack test say about 6/32 on your tire:

Tire Rack also recommends that drivers expecting to encounter snow-covered roads consider replacing their tires when they reach approximately 6/32" of remaining tread depth to maintain good mobility. Tires need more tread depth in wintry conditions to compress snow in their grooves and release it as they roll. If there isn't sufficient tread depth, the "bites" of snow that can be processed on each tire revolution will be reduced to "nibbles," and the vehicle's traction and mobility in snow will be reduced.

THIS IS WHY I change my tires at no less than 5/32 as a rule. At 2/32 you need twice the distance to stop your car than with NEW tires.
Hopefully the guy driving behind me is reading this article.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:20 PM
Norm37 Norm37 is offline
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Originally Posted by jayb328i View Post
For those who do not want to read the full article, in summary here is what it says:
I did like the video in the link. Even though I just gave the article a quick glance and did not read it completely.

Last edited by Norm37; 11-13-2013 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:07 PM
asus389 asus389 is offline
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Wow, my CPO car came with 4 new tires. Hope you get this resolved OP. Thats pretty crappy of the dealer.
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  #21  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:21 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Wow, my CPO car came with 4 new tires. Hope you get this resolved OP. Thats pretty crappy of the dealer.
Is it? Again we're talking about .5mm (assuming the tread was measured at the wear bar as required by the CPO program). IMO your typical tread depth gauge does not have the accuracy to reliably resolve .5mm. So while they're on the very edge of the CPO specification(given this I think the dealer should have just replaced the tires to begin with) they appear to meet the requirement. However if it was measured from the tire surface there's no question they're out of spec and a new set of tires needs to be installed at dealer cost.
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:26 AM
coyote95667 coyote95667 is offline
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The OP's leverage is that there has been something like "CPO fraud by the dealer" and the dealer should want to avoid that beef by replacing the tires. That's sort of how I played it anyway (although I did not break out the "F" word, I just implied it). I mean you go to a high end dealer, and buy a certified $35K - $40K CPO car, you ought to be able to rely on a representation that the dealership has conformed to CPO spec including body and finish quality, tire tread depth, and mechanical soundness.

The dealer should be apologetic about the "goof" …. they should say "I'm sorry, we missed this one somehow, and we will replace the tires. Not sure how this happened".

The thing is, CPO carries a premium for a reason - and one is that you should not have to double-check tire tread depth before driving it off the lot.

I would have probably settled for replacement tires at honest dealer cost…. I think my dealership stepped up giving me the new tires but they are going to be rewarded when I buy my next car(s) from them - and they get that.
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Old 11-17-2013, 06:36 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by coyote95667 View Post
The OP's leverage is that there has been something like "CPO fraud by the dealer" and the dealer should want to avoid that beef by replacing the tires. That's sort of how I played it anyway (although I did not break out the "F" word, I just implied it). I mean you go to a high end dealer, and buy a certified $35K - $40K CPO car, you ought to be able to rely on a representation that the dealership has conformed to CPO spec including body and finish quality, tire tread depth, and mechanical soundness.

The dealer should be apologetic about the "goof" ….... they should say "I'm sorry, we missed this one somehow, and we will replace the tires. Not sure how this happened".

The thing is, CPO carries a premium for a reason - and one is that you should not have to double-check tire tread depth before driving it off the lot.

I would have probably settled for replacement tires at honest dealer cost….... I think my dealership stepped up giving me the new tires but they are going to be rewarded when I buy my next car(s) from them - and they get that.
I'm not convinced the dealer did anything wrong in this situation. Apparently the CPO specification calls for tread depth to be at least 3mm above the wear bars (5mm total). The OP stated the measurement was 2.5mm (though he didn't specify whether it was from the wear bar or total tread depth). Assuming it was measured from the wear bar I think it would be difficult for the OP to claim it did not conform to CPO specifications. IMO .5mm is probably within the margin of error for a typical tire tread depth gauge. Or the dealer could claim it met the 3mm specification at the time it was measured and the missing .5mm wore off post measurement.

With all that said either way it's right on the edge and a new set of tires seems appropriate.

Last edited by sunny5280; 11-17-2013 at 06:38 AM.
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