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E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 11-12-2013, 06:02 PM
Zaluss Zaluss is online now
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Mein Auto: 99 323is
New to BMW - 99 323is

I recently traded my built MK2 GTI for this car. I was looking for something different and a quick text message from someone on craigslist later I end up with a 99' 323is coupe.

Here is a little about the car I had:

16v digi 2 conversion
TT 276 cams/TT HD springs/Port and Polished
Adjustable Cam Gear
BBM Fuel Rail
Walbro FP
Polished 50mm Euro Intake
K&N Cone Filter
OBX Headers/custom catback
Front/rear Neuspeed sway bars
Rear strut bar.
11" G60 front brake conversion/new StopTech Powerslot Slotted Rotors/Pagid pads
New Rear Eurospec slotted rotors/**** bearings/Pagid pads
H&R Ultra Lows coilovers
BBM solid front motor mount/rear poly insert/G60 trans mount.
TT short shift kit


Untitled by MP.Hill, on Flickr


Untitled by MP.Hill, on Flickr

Great car. Fast, turns like it was on rails, etc but I guess in my old age I was getting tired of the vibrations, the noise, and overall appearance of the car was unbecoming of my age Either way, here is what I ended up with...


20131112_143122 by MP.Hill, on Flickr


20131112_124822 by MP.Hill, on Flickr


20131112_124811 by MP.Hill, on Flickr


20131112_124754 by MP.Hill, on Flickr

Missing drivers rear door trim.


20131112_143401 by MP.Hill, on Flickr


20131112_143337 by MP.Hill, on Flickr

Full size spare. I read somewhere this acted like a rear crash absorption so it being there is typically a good sign.


20131112_143250 by MP.Hill, on Flickr

No unusual noises, no leaks, new alternator and belt. PO claims to have redone the cooling system recently. Will end up replacing it all anyway


20131112_143148 by MP.Hill, on Flickr

Clean interior. M wheel and shift knobs are nice but will probably be the only M pieces to appear on the car. Trying to stay OEM+.


20131112_143122 by MP.Hill, on Flickr


20131112_143104 by MP.Hill, on Flickr

Passenger side dent.


20131112_143051 by MP.Hill, on Flickr

Rear bumper clearcoat failure. Thankfully the rest of the cars paint looks pretty good.


20131112_143031 by MP.Hill, on Flickr

Some bubbling on the hood.


20131112_143018 by MP.Hill, on Flickr


20131112_143011 by MP.Hill, on Flickr

PO hit something and crushed the bottom of the passenger side front bumper. Mmmm plastic carnage.


20131112_142946 by MP.Hill, on Flickr

Pretty sure I'm missing something here This isn't a daily and its one of the first things to be fixed. Due to the 323is using a single vs dual I'll be either sourcing the midpipe from another car or replacing it entirely.

Priorities to be ready by June:

- Drivers door window fell inside when I pushed the button. I opened her up and found the white clips destroyed. I ordered new clips and rails from Pelicanparts.

- Replace catback exhaust or upgrade to 328/M exhaust.

- Source new OEM bumper. Not really wanting to go with an M front bumper.

- Full suspension refresh. Bushings/bearings/Tie rods/etc

- Full brake replacement. Rear brakes looking a little thin.

- Emergency brake goes way too high and pops out of the boot before it locks in place. Need to either adjust or replace shoes.

We'll see how this goes _a_
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2013, 08:51 AM
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ZeGerman ZeGerman is online now
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Looks like a pretty decent 323, and a cool color, too. It needs some TLC, but most E36s do nowadays. That's the joy of owning older cars. Let me know if you need any help working on it or have questions, since I'm fairly close to you. I think you'll find working on the E36 to be quite easy.

Oh, and welcome aboard!
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Last edited by ZeGerman; 11-13-2013 at 08:52 AM.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2013, 08:58 AM
Zaluss Zaluss is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeGerman View Post
Looks like a pretty decent 323, and a cool color, too. It needs some TLC, but most E36s do nowadays. That's the joy of owning older cars. Let me know if you need any help working on it or have questions, since I'm fairly close to you. I think you'll find working on the E36 to be quite easy.

Oh, and welcome aboard!
Thanks.

Still trying to source a replacement exhaust. I also have some family coming from the UK here in a few weeks so I'm tempted to browse ebay UK for some replacement parts. We'll see about that. I did find this though:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E36-GE...item2a33a5f3d0

$20 for both isn't too shabby, especially since it'll fit in a suitcase
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:39 AM
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dwonda dwonda is online now
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I still don't understand this philosophy floating around this board of replacing your entire cooling system 'just cause'. I mean christ that is a lot of work, lots of time, lots of money. I believe in preventative care, but only when it doesn't run me out of house and home. Maybe I'm better at looking at my temp gauge than most people, I've had locked up thermostats before and that has never been an issue, I notice it, keep an eye on it, and eventually get it fixed. I mean where do you draw the line? Maybe I should just change my thermostat every time I get an oil change. And I absolutely hate the fact that people are going to criticize me on this and assume I just don't really care about my car. Well guess what, I do. I care about a lot of things, this planet being one of them! Maybe I should just replace my engine every year so I never have to worry about getting stuck on the side of the road, hell lots of people replace their car every year why not. I know these cars have very "weak" cooling systems with lots of plastic that can break but who cares? Here is what you can do, you can get in the habit (if you're not already in it) of checking your temperature gauge, OR you can spend $xxxx and xxxx time every what is the recommendation 50k miles? And aid in polluting our planet more. I digress.
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:41 AM
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dwonda dwonda is online now
Insane in the membrane!
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Oh btw, I'm jelly of your steering wheel, I just have the regular all black m-tech. And I thought that since I replaced my entire interior, besides the floor carpet, I would be the only one with a black interior and tan carpet, did they come like this? Or do you think the previous owner did the same thing to his?
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:48 AM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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Checking the temp gauge isn't in question. Neither is how much work it is to change everything. It's work, but it's not terribly hard, nor really expensive. What IS the point is exchanging a lot of weakened, old plastic parts for new at a somewhat regular interval.

Watching the gauge does no good when the upper radiator hose fitting goes BOOM and you're left with a hole where the hose used to connect to the radiator, or the end tank splits from top to bottom while you're buzzing down the Interstate at 80+, or the plastic heater hose connection pipe under the intake manifold breaks off 100 miles from home.
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:50 AM
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ZeGerman ZeGerman is online now
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Not really sure where that rant is coming from, but think of it this way: The weakest point of the E36 is the cooling system. You can eliminate the risk of killing your engine for less than the cost of an entry level set of tires, and you only have to do it every 7-10 years. It only takes a few hours to perform the work, and it's within the reach of a DIY'er with even average skills. This allows you to keep your car on the road long into the future, thus reducing the need to replace the entire car. It's a complex combination of factors, but maintaining a car for a long time (including the replacement of worn out parts) is still better for the environment than buying a different new or used car at shorter intervals.

E36s are not like other cars regarding the perils of overheating, because not only are they particularly prone to cooling system failures, but the consequences of a cooling system failure are greater in an E36 than is the case with many other cars. This is due to the aluminum head, but perhaps more significantly, the looong inline-6 engine layout, which is more prone to warping & cracking the cylinder head than engines with shorter heads (e.g. I4, V6, V8, etc....). Additionally, the temp gauge on the E36 is buffered, so by the time it has moved beyond 12 o'clock, the actual water temp is considerably higher than what you are seeing on the gauge.

You say you believe in preventive care, yet you take issue with the idea of preventively replacing something which is inexpensive, easy to perform, critical to operation, and responsible for countless blown head gaskets (and subsequently scrapped cars). Can't say I see the logic in that, and it seems like a paramount contradiction. Blown head gaskets are pretty much the number one critical failure with the E36. If you could avoid that problem for about $4.00 a month over about 8 years, why wouldn't you?
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Last edited by ZeGerman; 11-13-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:57 AM
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dwonda dwonda is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
Checking the temp gauge isn't in question. Neither is how much work it is to change everything. It's work, but it's not terribly hard, nor really expensive. What IS the point is exchanging a lot of weakened, old plastic parts for new at a somewhat regular interval.

Watching the gauge does no good when the upper radiator hose fitting goes BOOM and you're left with a hole where the hose used to connect to the radiator, or the end tank splits from top to bottom while you're buzzing down the Interstate at 80+, or the plastic heater hose connection pipe under the intake manifold breaks off 100 miles from home.
Ya I know, **** happens, its part of the culture of driving. Its why I have loss of use insurance. And maybe instead of replacing my entire cooling system I'll just have to replace the radiator, or any 1 of those parts you just mentioned. Timing chain/belt THAT makes sense. A tire with no treat left THAT makes sense, changing your oil THAT makes sense too.
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:59 AM
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southpark11235 southpark11235 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaluss View Post
PO claims to have redone the cooling system recently. Will end up replacing it all anyway
If the previous owner is telling the truth, there is no need to waste your money. Ask the previous owner for a list of the components replace and an approximate mileage it was done at. Then visually inspect the parts to make sure look like they have been replaced around when the previous owner stated. Lastly replace anything the previous owner missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaluss View Post
PO hit something and crushed the bottom of the passenger side front bumper. Mmmm plastic carnage.
Before you completely rule out the M3 bumper consider this. Umnitza is still having a sale on its M3 bumper, so it is only 130 bucks shipped to your door and IMO the M3 bumper looks great on a 323is. Here is a picture of that bumper installed on my 323is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaluss View Post
Pretty sure I'm missing something here This isn't a daily and its one of the first things to be fixed. Due to the 323is using a single vs dual I'll be either sourcing the midpipe from another car or replacing it entirely.
I would recommend looking for a 328/M3 mid-pipe and muffler. It is a nice upgrade over the restrictive single pipe exhaust that is stock on the 323 and it can easily picked up on craigslist for about 100 bucks. It is also relatively easy to install. You do not even need to buy an O2 sensor plug because there is already one in the header that you need to remove to install the pre-cat O2 sensor.
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  #10  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:00 PM
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ZeGerman ZeGerman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwonda View Post
Ya I know, **** happens, its part of the culture of driving. Its why I have loss of use insurance. And maybe instead of replacing my entire cooling system I'll just have to replace the radiator, or any 1 of those parts you just mentioned. Timing chain/belt THAT makes sense. A tire with no treat left THAT makes sense, changing your oil THAT makes sense too.
If it's that hard to convince you that BMW cooling systems are troublesome and often responsible for enormous repair bills, you need to spend more time around BMWs.
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Last edited by ZeGerman; 11-13-2013 at 12:29 PM.
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:27 PM
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ZeGerman ZeGerman is online now
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Originally Posted by Zaluss View Post
Still trying to source a replacement exhaust.
It's up in Bellingham, which is a bit of a drive, but here is an M3 midpipe & cat-back with new(ish) cats for $250.

http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/sho...pe-and-catback
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For sale: E30/E36 front sway links
For sale: OEM E36 328 catback

Last edited by ZeGerman; 11-13-2013 at 12:29 PM.
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:16 PM
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dwonda dwonda is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeGerman View Post
If it's that hard to convince you that BMW cooling systems are troublesome and often responsible for enormous repair bills, you need to spend more time around BMWs.
No its not hard to convince me, because I actually stated earlier that it is something I am aware of! I will also add that it is something my mechanic warned me about regarding these cars, although he didn't suggest that I replace everything regularly, but that it was important to not have too much coolant in the system.

You make one big assumption, and your argument completely relies on this one assumption, and that is, that my engine WILL be damaged if my cooling system fails. This is what I will not be convinced of, and I've stated earlier my reasons for believing that, and I don't think you understand how religiously I pay attention to my needle not being at the 12 o clock position, because its something that EVERY driver needs to be in the habit of doing, because regardless if you change your entire cooling system every 1, 5, 10, 20 years it does NOT guarantee against premature failure. THEREFORE your absolute BEST option is to pay attention to your temperature gauge! You've talked a lot about the buffer before, but you will not convince me that once your needle (and I'm being generous here because I would notice the needle before it gets to this point) reaches 3/4 your engine is toast. I believe you when you say there is a buffer, what I don't believe is the buffer having the ability to render your water temp gauge completely useless in preventing expensive engine damage. Nope nope nope. I don't see how you can argue with the logic in this paragraph, since I have clearly given human error a scenario on both sides.

You say its not expensive, and anyone can do it. I probably wouldn't do this job myself, I don't presume to know how to do things by reading about them. My mechanic's work ethic is the best I've ever come around, he is owner and sole operator of his business, which translates into him caring about the work he does on every car he touches. Besides that he's anal like me, does things right, and only charges $65/hour because he has such low over head. He is the one that would do it, and for me parts and labor would be a significant cost to replace something that currently works fine.

Last edited by dwonda; 11-13-2013 at 04:01 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2013, 03:30 PM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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I give up. Do what you want. It's your money, your car, and your choice. WHEN the cooling system fails, and WHEN you blow a head gasket and/or warp the head, I won't say I told you so.







I take that back. Yes, I will.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:46 PM
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Re: New to BMW - 99 323is

I am actually in agreement with Dwonda here.

The catastrophic damage is a little over blown on this site.

Is PM'ing the entire cooling system a good idea? YES. Do I recommend it? YES. If you are an attentive driver and notice your temperature gauge starting to rise and take prompt action will your engine fail? NO.

I don't think it's fair to jump on people who are fully cognizant of the risks and know how to mitigate them. If I see a cooling system component starting to fail, I replace it immediately because it is a weak link. But, for daily driven (not tracked) cars, it's not necessary to replace the radiator, water pump, fan clutch, and reservoir just because of a sticky tstat or leaking hose.

The temp gauge is buffered, but it's no different from every other gauge on the market since the 90s. Yes, of course trying to drive 2 miles to the next exit on red will kill your engine. But pulling over immediately? You'll be fine. The HG isn't going to blow when it brushes 3/4.

I'd rather see people prioritize the money on genuine safety items like tires, steering components, and brakes, than needlessly replacing perfectly working parts.

Just my $.02.





Edit..... Welcome OP. That's a very sharp color you've got there.

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Old 11-13-2013, 03:57 PM
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dwonda dwonda is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
I give up. Do what you want. It's your money, your car, and your choice. WHEN the cooling system fails, and WHEN you blow a head gasket and/or warp the head, I won't say I told you so.

I take that back. Yes, I will.
Ya thats the exact response I expected. Same childish debate tactics used by politicians. (I almost said conservative…..oops) Let me know when you have a good counter argument. Oh wait….. you give up. N/M.

p.s. you completely missed my point, which was if you can't regularly keep an eye on your temp gauge, buying a new car won't even save your engine.

Edit: Actually I've realized just after writing this message that what I just said was on the immature and spiteful side. I apologize for my attitude.

Last edited by dwonda; 11-13-2013 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:03 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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oh bro you fked up... you should have kept the mark




nice e36 though... welcome to the beat my wallet club
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:49 PM
Zaluss Zaluss is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwonda View Post
I still don't understand this philosophy floating around this board of replacing your entire cooling system 'just cause'. I mean christ that is a lot of work, lots of time, lots of money. I believe in preventative care, but only when it doesn't run me out of house and home. Maybe I'm better at looking at my temp gauge than most people, I've had locked up thermostats before and that has never been an issue, I notice it, keep an eye on it, and eventually get it fixed. I mean where do you draw the line? Maybe I should just change my thermostat every time I get an oil change. And I absolutely hate the fact that people are going to criticize me on this and assume I just don't really care about my car. Well guess what, I do. I care about a lot of things, this planet being one of them! Maybe I should just replace my engine every year so I never have to worry about getting stuck on the side of the road, hell lots of people replace their car every year why not. I know these cars have very "weak" cooling systems with lots of plastic that can break but who cares? Here is what you can do, you can get in the habit (if you're not already in it) of checking your temperature gauge, OR you can spend $xxxx and xxxx time every what is the recommendation 50k miles? And aid in polluting our planet more. I digress.
The cooling system, from what I understand, is a weak point in the E36. I've had some experience with plastic cooling parts with my MK3 GTI VR6. Needless to say, I've learned that lesson the hard way. Even with an inspection, some components aren't easily identified as working. Without proof of such repair, why would I gamble an expensive repair when I could simply just replace the cooling system? Why wait until something goes wrong? Preventive repair is key to a healthy motor. The PO could of told me all sort of things but without proof, why take the chance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwonda View Post
Oh btw, I'm jelly of your steering wheel, I just have the regular all black m-tech. And I thought that since I replaced my entire interior, besides the floor carpet, I would be the only one with a black interior and tan carpet, did they come like this? Or do you think the previous owner did the same thing to his?
The steering wheel is a nice touch. I've seen some of the others and I do have to say I like it a lot. I actually didn't notice the tan carpet until you pointed it out. I'm not sure if its a replacement or stock. I'm not familiar enough with the models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
If the previous owner is telling the truth, there is no need to waste your money. Ask the previous owner for a list of the components replace and an approximate mileage it was done at. Then visually inspect the parts to make sure look like they have been replaced around when the previous owner stated. Lastly replace anything the previous owner missed.


Before you completely rule out the M3 bumper consider this. Umnitza is still having a sale on its M3 bumper, so it is only 130 bucks shipped to your door and IMO the M3 bumper looks great on a 323is. Here is a picture of that bumper installed on my 323is.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...1&d=1384372756


I would recommend looking for a 328/M3 mid-pipe and muffler. It is a nice upgrade over the restrictive single pipe exhaust that is stock on the 323 and it can easily picked up on craigslist for about 100 bucks. It is also relatively easy to install. You do not even need to buy an O2 sensor plug because there is already one in the header that you need to remove to install the pre-cat O2 sensor.
I did see that bumper. I may go for it due to its cost depending on whether I want to try to plastic weld the bumper back together or not. Thanks for the tip on the O2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeGerman View Post
It's up in Bellingham, which is a bit of a drive, but here is an M3 midpipe & cat-back with new(ish) cats for $250.

http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/sho...pe-and-catback
Thanks! I'll look into this. Travelling all the way to Bellingham isn't something I really want to do though but may be worth it. I have a few months to accomplish this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
oh bro you fked up... you should have kept the mark




nice e36 though... welcome to the beat my wallet club
I loved that car but at the end of the day I really feel like it was just too much. The stiff ride, the noise, and the overall condition of the interior made it feel cheap. I considered returning it stock but thought, why would I ruin a perfectly good track car? Then I thought about buying another MK2 but why would I do that when I have one? At the end of the day as much as I like Volkswagen I decided this was a good opportunity to do something different. Plus the color is gorgeous!
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:06 PM
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dwonda dwonda is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaluss View Post
The cooling system, from what I understand, is a weak point in the E36. I've had some experience with plastic cooling parts with my MK3 GTI VR6. Needless to say, I've learned that lesson the hard way. Even with an inspection, some components aren't easily identified as working. Without proof of such repair, why would I gamble an expensive repair when I could simply just replace the cooling system? Why wait until something goes wrong? Preventive repair is key to a healthy motor. The PO could of told me all sort of things but without proof, why take the chance?
"When I could simply just replace the cooling system"

I don't understand all of this chancing and gambling everyone is talking about, I mean I understand driving is probably the biggest risk for most people in their lifetime, but everyone is making driving sound like its a game of Texas hold 'em, rather than something anyone can safely do using their 5 senses, to aid in judgement, logic, critical thinking, defensive driving, reaction etc… If this skill set can't be appreciated for all that it is capable of (like being awake enough to know when to stop driving), than you might as well just let Google drive your car and separate yourself from the whole thing.

If we're here actively discussing our vehicles in our free time, because we care enough to do it, and have this much genuine interest on the topic, can't we give ourselves enough credit to being fully capable of operating the machines we are licensed to drive?

Last edited by dwonda; 11-13-2013 at 08:08 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2013, 08:14 PM
Zaluss Zaluss is online now
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Originally Posted by dwonda View Post
"When I could simply just replace the cooling system" :roll eyes:

I don't understand all of this chancing and gambling everyone is talking about, I mean I understand driving is probably the biggest risk for most people in their lifetime, but everyone is making driving sound like its a game of Texas hold 'em, rather than something anyone can safely do using their 5 senses, to aid in judgement, logic, critical thinking, defensive driving, reaction etc… If this skill set can't be appreciated for all that it is capable of (like being awake enough to know when to stop driving), than you might as well just let Google drive your car and separate yourself from the whole thing.

If we're here actively discussing our vehicles in our free time, because we care enough to do it, and have this much genuine interest on the topic, can't we give ourselves enough credit to being fully capable of operating the machines we are licensed to drive?
I'm not sure how to put the risk any more simple that what everyone else has been saying. Driving is a risk but with anything risky we do, why wouldn't we make sure its less risky? Driving your car has certain risks yes but a lot of them do not have to be. Anyone can hit you any given time and thats a risk we take. The most careful driver in the world can wreck a car being in the wrong place at the wrong time so I don't see how that analogy applies.

I'm not entirely sure why your bent on making a point about not doing work on a car on an enthusiast forum. Any car that you buy not knowing its history is playing with fire no matter how you spin it. Replacing critical parts with no proof of prior service is necessary.

Finally being fully capable of operating the machines we are licensed to drive has nothing to do with preventive repairs so I'm not really sure what you are trying to say.
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2013, 08:53 PM
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dwonda dwonda is online now
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Yes, in our universe there are no clear cut rules, because there are always exceptions. If we used an exception to counter every statement we make, we would become silent and we would get no where. I thought everyone knew this.

Don't apply what I'm saying on this one topic as my general philosophy to car maintenance. Remember those exceptions, cause thats what this is to me, an exception to the philosophy of preventative maintenance.

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Finally being fully capable of operating the machines we are licensed to drive has nothing to do with preventive repairs so I'm not really sure what you are trying to say.
Ok so pulling over to the side of the road, and getting your car fixed has nothing to do with knowing how to properly operate the machine you are driving? And has nothing to do with preventative maintenance?

Lets talk about what is absolutely at stake here…

In one scenario, you replace your entire cooling system every 10 years, and maybe more often than that depending on how often you buy an e36 because there is no such thing as proof of a repair unless you've seen it happen with your own two eyes. And maybe individual parts more often than that like the thermostat, and water pump but we'll stay true to being dogmatic and replace everything every 10 years, because we might forget the last time a particular part was replaced, +anyone can do this, and it doesn't cost hardly as much as replacing your engine. You spend time and money doing this and it guarantees you absolutely nothing, cause anything is POSSIBLE (which is why we are replacing everything right?), and since keeping an eye on a temp gauge is impossible (because its not enough to justify my argument so why should you be able to use it against me) we might as well roll on to the worst POSSIBLE case scenario and your whole engine gets ruined anyways.

In the other scenario, you glance at your gauges every minute, which you might do anyways if you're driving in town to keep an eye on your speed, and if your not driving in town you should do it anyways. You replace things as you notice things with your temp gauge, which should kind of function like a cooling system idiot light, except much more reliable. You still do things like regularly flush your coolant, cause THAT is really cheap and easy to do. You replace things as they come up, pump, thermostat. And you take on a higher risk of being inconvenienced with an unexpected repair, as in a cooling system repair.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:04 PM
Zaluss Zaluss is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwonda View Post
Yes, in our universe there are no clear cut rules, because there are always exceptions. If we used an exception to counter every statement we make, we would become silent and we would get no where. I thought everyone knew this.

Don't apply what I'm saying on this one topic as my general philosophy to car maintenance. Remember those exceptions, cause thats what this is to me, an exception to the philosophy of preventative maintenance.



Ok so pulling over to the side of the road, and getting your car fixed has nothing to do with knowing how to properly operate the machine you are driving? And has nothing to do with preventative maintenance? I'm fairly certain you can operate a machine properly without having to know how to maintain it nor will you necessarily know about preventive maintenance.

Lets talk about what is absolutely at stake here…

In one scenario, you replace your entire cooling system every 10 years, and maybe more often than that depending on how often you buy an e36 because there is no such thing as proof of a repair unless you've seen it happen with your own two eyes. And maybe individual parts more often than that like the thermostat, and water pump but we'll stay true to being dogmatic and replace everything every 10 years, because we might forget the last time a particular part was replaced, +anyone can do this, and it doesn't cost hardly as much as replacing your engine. You spend time and money doing this and it guarantees you absolutely nothing, cause anything is POSSIBLE (which is why we are replacing everything right?), and since keeping an eye on a temp gauge is impossible (because its not enough to justify my argument so why should you be able to use it against me) we might as well roll on to the worst POSSIBLE case scenario and your whole engine gets ruined anyways. Receipt for the parts usually is sufficient for some. Repair order from a shop is another. People DO forget that's why we have receipts or proof of work done. If none is available, assume it hasn't been done. What is so hard about understanding that? You keep bringing up looking at your temp gauge. That is all well and good but isn't the point to keep it from getting hot, not watching it get hot? I usually glance at the temp gauge every once in awhile but hey I'm also trying to drive.

In the other scenario, you glance at your gauges every minute, which you might do anyways if you're driving in town to keep an eye on your speed, and if your not driving in town you should do it anyways. You replace things as you notice things with your temp gauge, which should kind of function like a cooling system idiot light, except much more reliable. You still do things like regularly flush your coolant, cause THAT is really cheap and easy to do. You replace things as they come up, pump, thermostat. And you take on a higher risk of being inconvenienced with an unexpected repair, as in a cooling system repair. Some people don't have the luxury of being inconvenienced by an unexpected repair which is why people take the time to do preventive repair. I can take a weekend off to do something that needs to be done rather than be "inconvenienced" by an "unexpected" repair that requires me to find alternate transportation for work, school, etc.
Again, maybe its just me, but I'm still not seeing what point your trying to make other than to depend on your temp gauge and wait for something to break. I assume you check your brake system periodically or do you simply wait until you hear metal to metal to change something?
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:22 PM
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dwonda dwonda is online now
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I'm fairly certain you can operate a machine properly without having to know how to maintain it nor will you necessarily know about preventive maintenance.
Have you ever operated large equipment for your workplace? I'm sure my boss would have loved to hear those words come out of my mouth. If you really refuse to totally separate the two, the least I can do is argue that operating is easily just as important as maintenance, maybe you take that for granted because its pretty easy to do in a small car. That statement seems awfully black and white to me though cause I really feel like one reflects the other in a meaningful way.

Quote:
Receipt for the parts usually is sufficient for some. Repair order from a shop is another. People DO forget that's why we have receipts or proof of work done. If none is available, assume it hasn't been done. What is so hard about understanding that?
Why risk it though, replacing the cooling system is a lot cheaper than replacing your engine right?

Quote:
You keep bringing up looking at your temp gauge. That is all well and good but isn't the point to keep it from getting hot, not watching it get hot? I usually glance at the temp gauge every once in awhile but hey I'm also trying to drive.
Why would you just watch it get hot? You stop driving is what you do, or if you have a belt driven fan it usually helps to keep your rpm's up. There is a reason why every car I've ever driven has a temp gauge, its not there just for the sake of being there, in your mind it should be seen just as necessary as your speedometer or fuel gauge.

Quote:
Some people don't have the luxury of being inconvenienced by an unexpected repair which is why people take the time to do preventive repair. I can take a weekend off to do something that needs to be done rather than be "inconvenienced" by an "unexpected" repair that requires me to find alternate transportation for work, school, etc.
This is the strongest point I've heard yet. But again, only decreases your chance of an unexpected repair. And only decreases your chances of a surprise, which is impossible to avoid.

Quote:
Again, maybe its just me, but I'm still not seeing what point your trying to make other than to depend on your temp gauge and wait for something to break.
And no, it's not you, it's everyone minus 2 people, including myself.

Quote:
I assume you check your brake system periodically or do you simply wait until you hear metal to metal to change something?
I love repeating myself…..

Quote:
Don't apply what I'm saying on this one topic as my general philosophy to car maintenance. Remember those exceptions, cause thats what this is to me, an exception to the philosophy of preventative maintenance.
Any other questions?

Last edited by dwonda; 11-13-2013 at 09:41 PM.
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  #23  
Old 11-14-2013, 10:49 AM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Why are we arguing about what someone else is doing to their own car with their own money? I'm jealous of that mint interior zalluss! Good luck!
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  #24  
Old 11-14-2013, 11:14 AM
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ZeGerman ZeGerman is online now
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Yeah, perhaps this cooling system debate has gone on for long enough. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would take issue with spending $400 every 75-100k miles, when doing so virtually eliminates the biggest trouble area with the E36. Regardless, Zaluss seems to understand why it makes sense to perform this preventive maintenance, so that's good. If you treat an E36 well, it will last forever.
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  #25  
Old 11-14-2013, 11:19 AM
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dwonda dwonda is online now
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Ya, instead of people like me that don't give a shi* about them right. I guess mine will only last not even half as long. Like I said, if you can't keep an eye on your temp gauge, its all pointless anyways because even new parts have defects.
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