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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:43 PM
BradSCantor BradSCantor is offline
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Manual was automatic... For me.

I have driven many different cars over the course of my life but every single one I have owned has had a manual transmission. I learned on a '92 Subaru Legacy and never looked back. This most recent time around I really wanted another wagon. One thing led to another and I ended up walking out of the dealership with a X1 on order. A week or two later I called my CA back and canceled the order and switched it to a 328i with a stick. I just couldnt stomach the idea of trading in a third pedal for two paddles.
To me, BMW makes one of the best sporty sedans out there that comes with a stick. Getting a three series without a clutch just wouldnt feel right. This is entirely subjective and just my poorly informed opinion, so let me have it! Give me the reasons for your AT...
My question to all of you is, why and how did you choose your transmission? Was it about convenience? Annoyance? Speed? Feel? Muscular dystrophy? Teen-aged Children?
Whether you chose manual or auto, explain your reasoning.

Last edited by BradSCantor; 11-13-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:21 PM
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BentZero BentZero is offline
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Re: Manual was automatic... For me.

BMW would tell you that the 8AT is actually the sportier option. Primarily because it shifts faster. One of their department heads came out and stated as much recently. Look at the 0-60 numbers of the recently announced M235. Auto numbers are better.

I personally am on the fence. I used to be a manual only guy too, but then I got married. My wife doesn't know, nor cares to know, how to drive stick. That's an issue for us as we sometimes need to swap cars. So, I need to determine if the stick is worth the "I told you so"'s that I'm sure to hear.

The 8AT in sport+ does not disappoint. On the other hand, that stick is soooo smooth.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2013, 02:09 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentZero View Post
BMW would tell you that the 8AT is actually the sportier option. Primarily because it shifts faster. One of their department heads came out and stated as much recently. Look at the 0-60 numbers of the recently announced M235. Auto numbers are better.

I personally am on the fence. I used to be a manual only guy too, but then I got married. My wife doesn't know, nor cares to know, how to drive stick. That's an issue for us as we sometimes need to swap cars. So, I need to determine if the stick is worth the "I told you so"'s that I'm sure to hear.

The 8AT in sport+ does not disappoint. On the other hand, that stick is soooo smooth.
Teach your wife to drive a MT. For me there was never a thought of getting an AT. I just like to shift for myself and dislike having the car make the decision. And my wife can use a clutch!
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2013, 02:12 PM
thaibruin thaibruin is offline
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The argument can be made over and over and over again about how the latest and greatest dual clutch, or 8,9, 10 speed autos are and will always be faster than a good old 6 speed. People need to understand that it isn't just about speed that makes us die-hard manual drivers mourn the loss of manual options or having to choose an auto tranny when personal reasons call for it. It's about that extra connection, that feeling of control over your car. It saddens me that this may be my last car with a manual, but I won't pretend that once I go to an automatic that it's "better", at least not for how I would prefer to drive a car.
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2013, 02:21 PM
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Jay Arras Jay Arras is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Teach your wife to drive a MT. For me there was never a thought of getting an AT. I just like to shift for myself and dislike having the car make the decision. And my wife can use a clutch!
+1

I taught my then-fiance to drive a stick 40 years ago. I guess that's why we're still married. I've never owned a AT car in all those years.
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2013, 02:26 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Teach your wife to drive a MT. For me there was never a thought of getting an AT. I just like to shift for myself and dislike having the car make the decision. And my wife can use a clutch!


I taught my wife how to drive a stick after we first got married. When it was time to get a new car, she opted for a 1979 Toyota Celica with a stick. It kinda looked like an egg as it was white, but it was her choice and I was just happy she learned to enjoy driving a car with a manual transmission.

She went back to automatics after we had kids.
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2013, 03:35 PM
Supermax Supermax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradSCantor View Post
I just couldnt stomach the idea of trading in a third pedal for two paddles.
I drove MT's for most of my life and then switched to AT's with my first BMW a couple years ago. Really the only reason I went with AT on my F30 is because I was worried about the annoyance of bumper to bumper traffic with a MT. Now I realize I was wrong. The fun factor of MT outweighs all the negatives. I may have been annoyed sitting in traffic, but hey, I'm annoyed anyway...traffic sucks. But every time I get in my car, I realize that I'd be having even more fun driving it with MT.

So I applaud your decision.
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2013, 03:39 PM
thaibruin thaibruin is offline
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
I drove MT's for most of my life and then switched to AT's with my first BMW a couple years ago. Really the only reason I went with AT on my F30 is because I was worried about the annoyance of bumper to bumper traffic with a MT. Now I realize I was wrong. The fun factor of MT outweighs all the negatives. I may have been annoyed sitting in traffic, but hey, I'm annoyed anyway...traffic sucks. But every time I get in my car, I realize that I'd be having even more fun driving it with MT.

So I applaud your decision.
I live in LA and deal with the 405/101 on a nearly daily basis. The key is having an MT that has a really light clutch with a forgiving engagement point. Both my Acura TL that I had before and the F30 fit this bill perfectly. Also, if you've been driving stick your whole life (as I have), even in traffic, it's just second nature. I don't even think about shifting, my body just does it. The funniest thing about "not thinking about it" is that when I was teaching my wife to drive manual, I literally could not tell her what I do. She asked me "So how do you brake?" I said... "I don't know.... I just do".

Last edited by thaibruin; 11-13-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2013, 03:44 PM
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Mark K Mark K is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentZero View Post
My wife doesn't know, nor cares to know, how to drive stick. That's an issue for us as we sometimes need to swap cars.
You can still swap. You drive away, she calls the cab

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
Now I realize I was wrong. The fun factor of MT outweighs all the negatives. I may have been annoyed sitting in traffic, but hey, I'm annoyed anyway...traffic sucks. But every time I get in my car, I realize that I'd be having even more fun driving it with MT.

So I applaud your decision.
+1

Traffic sucks either way, it sucks so much more because of being traffic than because of your left foot working the clutch. HUGE downside being you are still stuck with that AT when you take it out at 6-7 AM on Sunday morning.

Good for you, OP!
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  #10  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:13 PM
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Nordique Nordique is offline
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I've only bought cars (ten of them so far) with manual transmissions, the first with a three-speed shifter on the steering column and no synchro shifting down into first. I started driving, over fifty years ago, when auto transmissions cost a lot more than manual. I learned to double-clutch that first car to do the 2nd to 1st shift, very useful on snowy winter roads with retread tires. I've driven rentals and friends' cars with automatics, and they were all very boring and uninvolving, despite big horsepower. I still drive in rush hour traffic four days a week and enjoy the game of avoiding the brakes and perfecting my 2nd to 1st shifts. Driving is one of my favorite sports and it's only fun with a manual--and since May 15th, I have a six speed manual, with sport package--SO much fun!
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:19 PM
thaibruin thaibruin is offline
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I've only bought cars (ten of them so far) with manual transmissions, the first with a three-speed shifter on the steering column and no synchro shifting down into first. I started driving, over fifty years ago, when auto transmissions cost a lot more than manual. I learned to double-clutch that first car to do the 2nd to 1st shift, very useful on snowy winter roads with retread tires. I've driven rentals and friends' cars with automatics, and they were all very boring and uninvolving, despite big horsepower. I still drive in rush hour traffic four days a week and enjoy the game of avoiding the brakes and perfecting my 2nd to 1st shifts. Driving is one of my favorite sports and it's only fun with a manual--and since May 15th, I have a six speed manual, with sport package--SO much fun!
It's the absolute worst when I need to travel out of town for work and end up driving an automatic rental. The first thing that always happens is that my left foot pushes down on... nothing. But then it's the best feeling when I get home and get back in my car and KNOW I have to row my own gears.
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:24 PM
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vst335is vst335is is offline
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Manual was automatic... For me.

I have to say it is not my daily driver, but for the type of car I wanted, only considered manual mainly for the driving experience, handling, etc. there was a comprehensive review on the "is" and after the test drive review the outcome was that "if you are thinking of getting it equipped with the automatic, you are probably buying the wrong car". The experience thus far has been very rewarding good luck with yours!


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  #13  
Old 11-13-2013, 05:39 PM
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I am a huge fan of manual transmissions, my last vehicle was a manual, and at a certain point I would have told you I will always drive stick shifts. Unfortunately, my vehicle is also used for business, and I simply felt the automatic was better in that aspect. Like others my wife can't/won't drive a stick, so that factored in as well.

The good news is the 8AT is fantastic, I normally despise automatic transmission, but it seems to always be right where I want it, no matter the situation. I still miss being connected to the car, and the great feeling of nailing a shift just right coming out of a corner, but the 8AT is really good.
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2013, 06:46 PM
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I have a manual; I didn't think twice about it, and I'm generally not a fan of automatics and/or DSG/DCT/PDK/ABCs. That being said, BMW's 8-speed auto is a well executed automatic transmission. I drove an auto 328xi to GA and back and it was very smooth. Then again, so is the 8-speed Audi box, so maybe auto's as a whole are just getting better.
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2013, 07:21 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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All of my cars were manuals since I was in college. I learned to drive an AT family cars but as soon as I was buying my own cars I bought cars with manual transmissions. I drove MTs in NYC rush hour traffic for years and it never bothered me at all.

My wife also drove manuals and had several Datsun Zs with MTs before we met. The first car we bought together was an Acura Integra with a 5 speed MT. A few years ago she bought a Jaguar XKR with an AT which we kept as our Florida cars until recently. I really liked that car and when we bought the E93 in 2007 I decided to get it with a Steptronic and have no regrets. We then got a 750Lix with an AT. Even if they were available I would not even consider a 7 Series with an MT.

Whenever there is an AT vs MT thread the same things come up.

1. You get better control with an MT.
No you don't. In manual mode with either a Steptronic of a DCT the driver has full control of what gear the car is in and when the car shifts.

2. ATs shift faster and better.
This is true but so what? When are you going to be in a situation where shift speed makes a significant difference. Even an expert driver will never be able to rev match a downshift as precisely as an AT but a good driver can get it so close that the advantage of the AT is moot.

3. "I feel more connected to the car with an MT".
You can't argue this point. If you feel more connected you feel more connected. This is an individual preference.

4. "I find driving an MT more fun"
See #3.

5. You can left foot brake with an AT.
More useful on the track than on the road. I had a very hard time getting comfortable doing this but once you are using the brakes to balance the car and manage the contact patches it is a very useful technique.

I get to drive a variety of track cars with a variety of transmissions and enjoy all of them. The Lime Rock Drivers Club provides the members with M3s with DCT transmissions, and Spec Miatas with MTs. The Formula Skip Barber open wheel cars have a three pedal sequential racing transmission.

A friend of mine just ordered a new Porsche GT3 with a DCT. He was a bit skeptical but he had one of the Clubs DCT M3s out on the track on Saturday and seemed to really like the transmission.
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Last edited by captainaudio; 11-13-2013 at 07:48 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2013, 07:50 PM
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BentZero BentZero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
All of my cars were manuals since I was in college. I learned to drive an AT family cars but as soon as I was buying my own cars I bought cars with manual transmissions. I drove MTs in NYC rush hour traffic for years and it never bothered me at all.

My wife also drove manuals and had several Datsun Zs with MTs before we met. The first car we bought together was an Acura Integra with a 5 speed MT. A few years ago she bought a Jaguar XKR with an AT which we kept as our Florida cars until recently. I really liked that car and when we bought the E93 in 2007 I decided to get it with a Steptronic and have no regrets. We then got a 750Lix with an AT. Even if they were available I would not even consider a 7 Series with an MT.

Whenever there is an AT vs MT thread the same things come up.

1. You get better control with an MT.
No you don't. In manual mode with either a Steptronic of a DCT the driver has full control of what gear the car is in and when the car shifts.

2. ATs shift faster and better.
This is true but so what? When are you going to be in a situation where shift speed makes a significant difference. Even an expert driver will never be able to rev match a downshift as precisely as an AT but a good driver can get it so close that the advantage of the AT is moot.

3. "I feel more connected to the car with an MT".
You can't argue this point. If you feel more connected you feel more connected. This is an individual preference.

4. "I find driving an MT more fun"
See #3.

5. You can left foot brake with an AT.
More useful on the track than on the road. I had a very hard time getting comfortable doing this but once you are using the brakes to balance the car and manage the contact patches it is a very useful technique.

I get to drive a variety of track cars with a variety of transmissions and enjoy all of them. The Lime Rock Drivers Club provides the members with M3s with DCT transmissions, and Spec Miatas with MTs. The Formula Skip Barber open wheel cars have a three pedal sequential racing transmission.

A friend of mine just ordered a new Porsche GT3 with a DCT. He was a bit skeptical but he had one of the Clubs DCT M3s out on the track on Saturday and seemed to really like the transmission.
I would argue that #2 (and this entire thread) is also personal preference. Guess that's how your friend felt as well? That club sounds like a blast.
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:46 PM
Geekenstein Geekenstein is offline
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The only thing that would make me hesitate to make my next BMW an auto is, I think it would drive me nuts not being able to skip gears. How fluid is the auto when you want to do the equivalent of skipping from 6th to 3rd on the freeway to pass a group of cars? I guess that would be like 8, 7, 6, 5, 4 with the auto. It's hard to imagine that being as satisfying as grabbing 3rd and matching revs with one big blip.
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2013, 12:03 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekenstein View Post
The only thing that would make me hesitate to make my next BMW an auto is, I think it would drive me nuts not being able to skip gears. How fluid is the auto when you want to do the equivalent of skipping from 6th to 3rd on the freeway to pass a group of cars? I guess that would be like 8, 7, 6, 5, 4 with the auto. It's hard to imagine that being as satisfying as grabbing 3rd and matching revs with one big blip.
The ZF 8 Speed that BMW uses can skip gears and shift directly from 8th to 2nd. This is shown at 2:52 in this video.


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Last edited by captainaudio; 11-14-2013 at 12:07 AM.
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2013, 12:10 AM
Geekenstein Geekenstein is offline
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That's cool, but you can't do that with the paddle shifters. It's nice to be able to plan ahead and have the engine at full song as soon as your break in traffic materializes. You can plan ahead with the paddle shifters too, just seems like it would be clunky.
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  #20  
Old 11-14-2013, 12:13 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekenstein View Post
That's cool, but you can't do that with the paddle shifters. It's nice to be able to plan ahead and have the engine at full song as soon as your break in traffic materializes. You can plan ahead with the paddle shifters too, just seems like it would be clunky.
Actually even when shifting sequentially through the gears it is very smooth.
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  #21  
Old 11-14-2013, 04:55 AM
Dan_335i Dan_335i is offline
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I choose a auto
Dunno how to drive stick but i would like to learn

Maybe my next car will be a manual
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  #22  
Old 11-14-2013, 07:28 AM
BradSCantor BradSCantor is offline
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Quote:
The first thing that always happens is that my left foot pushes down on... nothing.
The phantom clutch. It comes it two varietals. There is what you describe above... but then there is the much more malignant form where, while searching for that missing clutch, your left foot slams down on the break. Not my proudest moments.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:41 AM
thaibruin thaibruin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradSCantor View Post
The phantom clutch. It comes it two varietals. There is what you describe above... but then there is the much more malignant form where, while searching for that missing clutch, your left foot slams down on the break. Not my proudest moments.
I hate to say it... but I've done the same too... There have also been times where I forget that I need to put the car into park (P) and I can't get the key out as most automatic tranny will prevent you from doing so unless you're in park. haha
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  #24  
Old 11-14-2013, 09:44 AM
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BentZero BentZero is offline
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Re: Manual was automatic... For me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradSCantor View Post
The phantom clutch. It comes it two varietals. There is what you describe above... but then there is the much more malignant form where, while searching for that missing clutch, your left foot slams down on the break. Not my proudest moments.
Ha. I've done that too.
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  #25  
Old 11-14-2013, 09:54 AM
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Leslierc Leslierc is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaibruin View Post
It's about that extra connection, that feeling of control over your car.
That's it exactly! Why I chose the 6-speed MT in my `13 Boxster S. However, city traffic reeks hell on your left foot in a manual. I recently met a guy who owns a `10 M5 with a MT. He loves it, but said the same thing about driving it in heavy traffic.
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