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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #51  
Old 11-16-2013, 02:20 PM
KimJongIllest KimJongIllest is offline
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Drove nothing but MT's my entire life, took the 428i with the ZF 8-speed down the road, put it in Sport+ mode. Sold.
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  #52  
Old 11-16-2013, 06:56 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimJongIllest View Post
Drove nothing but MT's my entire life, took the 428i with the ZF 8-speed down the road, put it in Sport+ mode. Sold.
Can you explain what about the 8AT made you decide to forego the MT.
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  #53  
Old 11-16-2013, 07:02 PM
thaibruin thaibruin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Can you explain what about the 8AT made you decide to forego the MT.
I was going to say... I had the exact same reaction he had when I drove the 6MT in Sport+ mode. somehow down on HP from my TL (though not really thanks to BMW underating their cars), it felt so much faster. Snappy gears, light clutch... I was instantly in love.
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  #54  
Old 11-16-2013, 10:22 PM
BradSCantor BradSCantor is offline
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Quote:
Quote:
Drove nothing but MT's my entire life, took the 428i with the ZF 8-speed down the road, put it in Sport+ mode. Sold.
Can you explain what about the 8AT made you decide to forego the MT.
ditto

Last edited by BradSCantor; 11-16-2013 at 10:24 PM.
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  #55  
Old 11-16-2013, 10:32 PM
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openwheelracing openwheelracing is offline
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Re: Manual was automatic... For me.

Manual was a no brainer in 2002 ( even for someone who grinds the LA traffic).

Not so in 2013. There is no reason for the stick anymore except for nostalgia reason. For that I say go buy a 1964 Mustang instead.

Why buy something new that has not seen R&D for years? Just get a vintage sports car if MT is a must.

Last edited by openwheelracing; 11-16-2013 at 10:35 PM.
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  #56  
Old 11-17-2013, 12:04 AM
KOpower KOpower is offline
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Manual was automatic... For me.

Manual for leisure
AT for daily grind

That's why you need both !

3 series makes an awesome manual transmission !
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  #57  
Old 11-17-2013, 02:40 AM
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mwm1166 mwm1166 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradSCantor View Post
I have driven many different cars over the course of my life but every single one I have owned has had a manual transmission. I learned on a '92 Subaru Legacy and never looked back. This most recent time around I really wanted another wagon. One thing led to another and I ended up walking out of the dealership with a X1 on order. A week or two later I called my CA back and canceled the order and switched it to a 328i with a stick. I just couldnt stomach the idea of trading in a third pedal for two paddles.
To me, BMW makes one of the best sporty sedans out there that comes with a stick. Getting a three series without a clutch just wouldnt feel right. This is entirely subjective and just my poorly informed opinion, so let me have it! Give me the reasons for your AT...
My question to all of you is, why and how did you choose your transmission? Was it about convenience? Annoyance? Speed? Feel? Muscular dystrophy? Teen-aged Children?
Whether you chose manual or auto, explain your reasoning.
I seriously considered a manual as this is my first real "man" car of my life after having a bunch of beater "boy" cars that just got the job done.

However, for me personally, when I realized how amazing the 8AT was, and how the new Auto transmissions are about to make a 3 pedal setup obsolete soon, I decided to go auto.

Some other considerations.

1) I wanted my wife to be able to drive the car and me not have to worry about destruction of my transmission. (We have tandem parking in our townhouse garage.)
2) I always dug the sequential paddle shifting systems used in F1 and Indycar, and after playing with a 335i with paddles, I was sold on how those can be fun and safe leaving both hands on the wheel.
3) in line with 2, I was born with a deformity of my left hand and only have 4 fingers less grip strength and less dexterity. I always wondered if I drove a car full time with my right hand needing to shift gears, would I be flittering with disaster by daring my left hand and it's limited function to lose control of the wheel. So, since I'm getting a 50k car with a good enough alternative that is fun in a different way, I just stuck with the auto gearbox.
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  #58  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:21 AM
Bret_T Bret_T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post
Not so in 2013. There is no reason for the stick anymore except for nostalgia reason.
Why buy something new that has not seen R&D for years? Just get a vintage sports car if MT is a must.
When cars are able to steer themselves, people will say the same thing about steering wheels.

I looked at the Jaguar F-Type. Although it's a nice looking car and certainly performs well, the experience wouldn't be what I'd want without the manual.

I like the way Honda did it with the S2000. If you don't drive a manual transmission, you don't drive an S2000. It's the only modern production car that I know of that's like that.
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  #59  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:48 AM
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Leslierc Leslierc is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bret_T View Post
When cars are able to steer themselves, people will say the same thing about steering wheels.

I looked at the Jaguar F-Type. Although it's a nice looking car and certainly performs well, the experience wouldn't be what I'd want without the manual.

I like the way Honda did it with the S2000. If you don't drive a manual transmission, you don't drive an S2000. It's the only modern production car that I know of that's like that.
I would say that the F-Type and S2000 are very different cars. For one thing, Honda no longer produces the S2000. Another is that the S2000 was not intended or designed for any sort of luxury. The S2000 was meant for performance, handling, and speed...and did that very well. I believe that it was Road & Track that recently reviewed the F-Type and compared it to the 981 Boxster S. That review concluded with the writer taking note that the Boxster S was continuing to do laps while the F-Type was in the paddock...the Boxster S being the car that drivers enjoyed driving more. I'm attracted to the F-Type as well, but if I want a car to whip around it likely would not be that one.
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Last edited by Leslierc; 11-17-2013 at 07:00 AM.
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  #60  
Old 11-17-2013, 07:04 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Manual was automatic... For me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimJongIllest View Post
Drove nothing but MT's my entire life, took the 428i with the ZF 8-speed down the road, put it in Sport+ mode. Sold.
This is what happened to me with my m3 DCT. First car (not SUV) that I have owned without a 6MT. I love the DCT.....


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  #61  
Old 11-17-2013, 11:42 AM
thaibruin thaibruin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

Why buy something new that has not seen R&D for years?
That's kind of the point of driving a manual transmission car. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. About the only R&D that you'd ever need is to add a 7th gear like Porsche and Chevy have done.
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  #62  
Old 11-17-2013, 01:18 PM
hmc hmc is offline
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It's called "Classic"
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  #63  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:34 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslierc View Post
I would say that the F-Type and S2000 are very different cars. For one thing, Honda no longer produces the S2000. Another is that the S2000 was not intended or designed for any sort of luxury. The S2000 was meant for performance, handling, and speed...and did that very well. I believe that it was Road & Track that recently reviewed the F-Type and compared it to the 981 Boxster S. That review concluded with the writer taking note that the Boxster S was continuing to do laps while the F-Type was in the paddock...the Boxster S being the car that drivers enjoyed driving more. I'm attracted to the F-Type as well, but if I want a car to whip around it likely would not be that one.
The article in Road & Track was written by Sam Posey. I spoke with Sam after he had tested the two cars (Jaguar F and Porsche Boxster) and was in the process of writing the article. He tested the two cars on the track at Lime Rock and on the back roads around his home (he lives 5 miles from Lime Rock).

He said that he really like both cars, that they were both superb road cars, but that he felt that the Porsche was a better track car (as he stated in the article) but was somewhat taken aback by the over $100,000 price (with options) of the Boxster . I specifically asked him how the dual clutch in the Porsche compared to the 8 speed ZF auto in the Jaguar. Sam said he liked both transmissions and did not see a significant difference between the two. He told me that after a few laps around the track he left the Jaguar in automatic mode as it was always in the right gear.

In a previous conversation I asked him he if agreed with people who say than an MT gives better control.

His response was as follows:

Quote:
"That's bullsh!t!.

Imagine that there had never been such a thing as a manual transmission and that paddle shifted automatics had developed to the point they are at today. An inventor goes to one of the major car companies and tells them that he has a new invention called the "manual transmission". This new transmission will change gears by means of a lever that comes up from the floor and is located between the driver's and passenger's seats. In order to shift gears the driver will have to take one hand off the steering wheel to shift gears. It will also require a third pedal called the "clutch" that the driver will have to operate with his left foot. This means that left foot braking will no longer be possible. To rev match a down shift the driver will have to operate the throttle and the brake at the same time with the right foot. While threshold braking the driver will have to use a technique called "heel and toe" which requires the right foot to "blip" the accelerator to rev match. Rev matches will at best be a very good guess since they will not be under control of a computer which will rev match perfectly.
I had to agree that that would not be an easy sell.

FWIW Sam's track car is a Formula Ford with an MT. He also owns a Viper, a Corvette Z06 and a 1954 Mercedes 300SL Gullwing all with manual transmissions.

CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 11-17-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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  #64  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:51 PM
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BentZero BentZero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
In a previous conversation I asked him he if agreed with people who say than an MT gives better control.
I think any reasonable person would say that the manual provides better engagement (subjectively), not better control (objectively).
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  #65  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:58 PM
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openwheelracing openwheelracing is offline
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Re: Manual was automatic... For me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thaibruin View Post
That's kind of the point of driving a manual transmission car. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. About the only R&D that you'd ever need is to add a 7th gear like Porsche and Chevy have done.
So why buy new cars? Why not stick with older BMWs? Why bother with 7 year cycles, tell BMW to sell the same car for next 50 years.

Fact is it was easy choice when it was between 5 speed stick and 4 speed auto, the World has changed. The 8 speed is fun, people just has to learn it.

Why not use flip phones, paper maps, and manual windows too?
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  #66  
Old 11-17-2013, 07:06 PM
thaibruin thaibruin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post
So why buy new cars? Why not stick with older BMWs? Why bother with 7 year cycles, tell BMW to sell the same car for next 50 years.

Fact is it was easy choice when it was between 5 speed stick and 4 speed auto, the World has changed. The 8 speed is fun, people just has to learn it.

Why not use flip phones, paper maps, and manual windows too?
Why buy a new car? Uh, because I want a new car. I'd like to have all the gizmos and doodads that a new car affords.

As mentioned earlier, there's no argument that an AT is better in several respects; efficiency, speed, ease of use. People like myself want the frills and the control. Let's not make this about how "backwards" people who enjoy driving manuals are. We live in 'Merica, you'll never have to worry about the small minority taking away your ability to choose your infinitely superior transmissions.
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  #67  
Old 11-17-2013, 07:19 PM
Bret_T Bret_T is offline
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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post
Why not use flip phones
Actually, I have a flip phone precisely because I don't want email, texting and the internet in my phone.
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  #68  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:36 PM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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I have a 335 with the Zf 6 speed and paddle shift. Got it because my wife doesn't drive manual and refuses to learn. 0 interest in it. While the transmission is exremely smooth and shifts instantly, I still miss my old manual. On a racetrack the paddles would be nice but in everyday driving a manual is more engaging. Whenever I have a chance to drive a car with a manual I enjoy it so much more. Still, I always shift manually using the paddles-- never let the car do it for me. To try and make up for it, I think I'm going to order my next car with even more tech stuff-- especially adaptive cruise control. If it has to be an automatic I want to take full advantage of that.

Have a bad feeling that we are within 3 years of there be no more manuals for sale in the US from any carmaker.
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Last edited by bmw325; 11-17-2013 at 09:39 PM.
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  #69  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:54 PM
thaibruin thaibruin is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw325 View Post

Have a bad feeling that we are within 3 years of there be no more manuals for sale in the US from any carmaker.
I wouldn't say 3 years, but by the time my kid is ready to learn to drive (he's 10 months now), self-driving cars will be everywhere, and manual transmission cars will be non-existent.
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  #70  
Old 11-17-2013, 10:12 PM
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mwm1166 mwm1166 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaibruin View Post
I wouldn't say 3 years, but by the time my kid is ready to learn to drive (he's 10 months now), self-driving cars will be everywhere, and manual transmission cars will be non-existent.
What a boring day that will be...
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  #71  
Old 11-18-2013, 05:44 AM
KimJongIllest KimJongIllest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Can you explain what about the 8AT made you decide to forego the MT.
It shifts faster than I ever could, and performance for me is getting off the line as quick as possible. I can't drive 100 around town, but I can get to 100 really fast if I need.
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  #72  
Old 11-18-2013, 11:38 AM
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jjcruiser jjcruiser is offline
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I can catch more fish with sonar, power bait, and a net, but I used a barbless hooks on a fly rod instead.

I think our culture has enough opportunities for instant gratification with minimal effort that I don't need to add fishing (and driving) to that list.
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  #73  
Old 11-18-2013, 12:11 PM
Al Bundy Al Bundy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

Why not use flip phones, paper maps, and manual windows too?


I still prefer a paper map...and enjoy reading maps in general.
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  #74  
Old 11-18-2013, 02:52 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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I side with the OP.

When I drive a manual, I'm connected to the car. I'm driving. When I'm in an automatic, even the new 8AT, I feel like I'm "operating" the car. I'm not driving it.

I agree that the 8AT is superior in terms of performance and efficiency. I still prefer the manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimJongIllest View Post
It shifts faster than I ever could, and performance for me is getting off the line as quick as possible. I can't drive 100 around town, but I can get to 100 really fast if I need.
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  #75  
Old 11-18-2013, 03:36 PM
Jp23rockstar Jp23rockstar is offline
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How would the manual transmission be for someone to learn to drive a manual? Is the clutch light or heavy?
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