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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:09 AM
wyaple wyaple is offline
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Dealer Said Tire Rotation Will Damage Vehicle?

I just spoke with an SA at one local midwest BMW dealership about rotating (fully square) tires on a 2013 335i and he said "BMW does not recommend ever rotating tires on your vehicle. Rotating your tires will cause many issues."

I then immediately called the other local dealer in my area and that SA said "I completely disagree with the other dealer."

Great. So some BMW SA's are actually this clueless about simple things?

BTW, dealer #1 (Mr. Rotation Damage) said if insisted in a rotation/re-balance that would be $150. Dealer #2 (Rotation is definitely OK) quoted $60 for the exact same service.

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  #2  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:16 AM
luigi524td luigi524td is offline
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BMW (whoever 'they' are) doesn't usually recommend (FRONT TO REAR) tire rotation because the wear patterns - front to rear - are different. In ALL cases cross rotation the 'old' x-type is NEVER recommended for radial tires. And some tires installed on BMW are DIRECTIONAL.

That said, IF a person insists on tire rotation I recommend (1) it be done ONLY Front to Rear (2) it be done at very short intervals - 5K miles or less, and (3) IF wear patterns are prevalent, DO NOT rotate; instead verify that alignment settings and tire pressures are correct and keep 'em where they are until they need to be replaced.
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:44 AM
wyaple wyaple is offline
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So it sounds like you are of the belief that if you have non-directional, perfectly square tires on a BMW, you are strongly recommended NOT to rotate them? I'd love to hear from others that have a similar setup.

Again, I just checked my tires and they are the fully square Pirelli Cinturato, non-directional type. And yes, I was planning to rotate them every 5K or so to keep the wear as perfect as possible over the life of the tires.

BTW, I have also always rotated my radials (again, square setup, non-directional) in a front/rear/criss-cross pattern for over 30 years with no issues whatsoever.

I suppose I will now call/contact Pirelli and hear what they have to say...

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  #4  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:56 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyaple View Post
I just spoke with an SA at one local midwest BMW dealership about rotating (fully square) tires on a 2013 335i and he said "BMW does not recommend ever rotating tires on your vehicle. Rotating your tires will cause many issues."

I then immediately called the other local dealer in my area and that SA said "I completely disagree with the other dealer."

Great. So some BMW SA's are actually this clueless about simple things?

BTW, dealer #1 (Mr. Rotation Damage) said if insisted in a rotation/re-balance that would be $150. Dealer #2 (Rotation is definitely OK) quoted $60 for the exact same service.


It is my belief that the Service Adviser position is one of transition for those completing drug rehab and psychiatric treatment. From them, I've observed everything from vitriolic rage to blissfully ignorant, totally incorrect advice.

If you talk to a mech, you speak to a guy who's trained and brings a level of real world experience to the conversation - that's what we need.

Or would you rather talk to a person hired to stroke ya?
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2013, 07:14 AM
wyaple wyaple is offline
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I did locate this in the 2013 OM, page 192.

Rotating wheels between axles
The manufacturer of your vehicle advises
against swapping wheels between the front and
rear axles.
This can impair the handling characteristics.


I can understand that the above would be true if you had a non-square setup or massively different wear patterns...

Anyhow, I have emailed Pirelli directly and eagerly await their response as well as any other forum members and/or mechs.

Bill
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  #6  
Old 11-18-2013, 07:24 AM
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I haven't bothered rotating tires for a long, long time. If you do it yourself and like the bonding time with your car, then more power to you. But since BMW doesn't recommend it anyway, when you add that plus the actual cost of rotating, I'm not sure what you're saving.

In my case, my tires all tend to wear pretty evenly anyway. If one axle is wearing a lot less, then I just replace that axle at a later date. If one particular tire is wearing noticeably more, then I know I have an alignment problem.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:09 AM
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Re: Dealer Said Tire Rotation Will Damage Vehicle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyaple View Post
I did locate this in the 2013 OM, page 192.

Rotating wheels between axles
The manufacturer of your vehicle advises
against swapping wheels between the front and
rear axles.
This can impair the handling characteristics.


I can understand that the above would be true if you had a non-square setup or massively different wear patterns...

Anyhow, I have emailed Pirelli directly and eagerly await their response as well as any other forum members and/or mechs.

Bill
What makes you think that it is all the same if the tire is mounted on rear axle or front on your BMW?

Look, you can probably rotate them in any direction you please and not feel a thing - but that does not mean there isn't a problem.
Just squat behind you car and look at the wheels - do front and rear wheel seem to have same camber?

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  #8  
Old 11-18-2013, 08:33 AM
dhstadt dhstadt is offline
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Originally Posted by wyaple View Post
So it sounds like you are of the belief that if you have non-directional, perfectly square tires on a BMW, you are strongly recommended NOT to rotate them? I'd love to hear from others that have a similar setup.

Again, I just checked my tires and they are the fully square Pirelli Cinturato, non-directional type. And yes, I was planning to rotate them every 5K or so to keep the wear as perfect as possible over the life of the tires.

BTW, I have also always rotated my radials (again, square setup, non-directional) in a front/rear/criss-cross pattern for over 30 years with no issues whatsoever.

I suppose I will now call/contact Pirelli and hear what they have to say...

If you pay $60 every 5K miles are you really saving anything?
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2013, 08:34 AM
Dippydo Dippydo is offline
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If you go staggered, just one less thing to worry about.
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  #10  
Old 11-18-2013, 08:34 AM
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Rotating tires is just being.economical, like using mid grade gas. If you don't mind a little waste and want the best performance, even performance that you may not notice, then don't rotate tires. I would rotate tires on a fwd car because the front wears much faster but just replace all four for a rwd or awd car.
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  #11  
Old 11-18-2013, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyaple View Post

Again, I just checked my tires and they are the fully square Pirelli Cinturato, non-directional type. And yes, I was planning to rotate them every 5K or so to keep the wear as perfect as possible over the life of the tires.

BTW, I have also always rotated my radials (again, square setup, non-directional) in a front/rear/criss-cross pattern for over 30 years with no issues whatsoever.

^^ THIS!! Keep doing what you've been doing.

Most SAs (BMW & otherwise) are clueless about how to wipe their butt, much less give accurate automotive advice. SAs are automotive service SALESMEN pure and simple. And like most salesmen you can tell if they're lying by whether their lips are moving.
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2013, 10:14 AM
jygesq jygesq is offline
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bmw's position has been do no bother with tire rotation as the benefits are not significant. That was in 2000 when I bought my 2000 528. that is even more signmificant if yo have staggered wheels on your car
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2013, 10:16 AM
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I've often found that proper tire inflation and alignment do more to save you tires than anything else. Without proper alignment all you're doing is putting an even amount of bad wear onto another tire.
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2013, 10:22 AM
wyaple wyaple is offline
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Hmmm, very interesting that tire rotation is such a controversial thing these days...

The whole point of rotating tires, for those who have never experienced it, is to even out the wear patterns over time and give the best possible performance. For example, if I take a set of tires that are meant to last 50K miles and never rotate them, one pair will probably need replacing after, say 25K miles or so. Then, if I do decide to replace that one pair at 25K miles, what I'm left with is one fresh set and one set that is fairly well worn. Not good for safety or performance. It would just dandy if all four tires could wear at approximately the same rate (again, a square setup here) and then you could replace all four at the same time and experience "balanced" performance throughout the useable lifetime of your tires of choice.

Of course, is anyone claiming that a RWD 335i driven reasonably (non-track) will indeed wear all four tires at nearly the same rate? I would believe that the rear set would wear somewhat faster than the front despite a nearly 50/50 weight distribution.

Other comments?

Bill
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2013, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyaple View Post
Hmmm, very interesting that tire rotation is such a controversial thing these days...

The whole point of rotating tires, for those who have never experienced it, is to even out the wear patterns over time and give the best possible performance. For example, if I take a set of tires that are meant to last 50K miles and never rotate them, one pair will probably need replacing after, say 25K miles or so. Then, if I do decide to replace that one pair at 25K miles, what I'm left with is one fresh set and one set that is fairly well worn. Not good for safety or performance. It would just dandy if all four tires could wear at approximately the same rate (again, a square setup here) and then you could replace all four at the same time and experience "balanced" performance throughout the useable lifetime of your tires of choice.

Of course, is anyone claiming that a RWD 335i driven reasonably (non-track) will indeed wear all four tires at nearly the same rate? I would believe that the rear set would wear somewhat faster than the front despite a nearly 50/50 weight distribution.
Mine wear closely enough that they hit the wear bars at roughly the same time. This has been the case for my E36, E46, and E53. I would be pretty surprised if you were able to double the useful life of your tires via rotation. And also very surprised if one axle wore out 2x faster than the other.

FWD cars very different. I used to have a Ford Probe that would burn the fronts a lot faster than the rears.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:56 AM
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Just a focus group of one here .... but our 2009 328i went 42,000 miles on the OEM runflats without rotating or any noticeable wear pattern front or rear. Not too Bad.

My tire dealer offers free lifetime rotation so when I go in for an oil change I get the replacement goflat tires rotated. This has worked too.

As for damaging the car .......... How can you tell when your dealer is lying too you??????











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  #17  
Old 11-18-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
Mine wear closely enough that they hit the wear bars at roughly the same time. This has been the case for my E36, E46, and E53. I would be pretty surprised if you were able to double the useful life of your tires via rotation. And also very surprised if one axle wore out 2x faster than the other.

FWD cars very different. I used to have a Ford Probe that would burn the fronts a lot faster than the rears.
^^^THIS^^^. I've definitely seen where front will wear faster than rear on a FWD, but both fronts wore down basically at the same rate unless my inflation or alignment was off.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:25 PM
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Dealer Said Tire Rotation Will Damage Vehicle?

I rotated my non-staggered setup way too late and had a miserable ride. bumpy, wobbly and not smooth at all. It's not worth the risk of having the fluctuation when your cruising at 80mph down the highway. I'm not going to risk it and rotate my BMW tires any longer even though the cause may have been waiting too long to rotate them. Our cars are precision instruments and subtle changes are more pronounced than they would be on every day vehicles IMHO.


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Old 11-18-2013, 12:40 PM
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How do square tires work, anyway?
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2013, 05:39 PM
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The real answer to your question is this:

On most cars, the majority of the weight is in the front of the car. More weight causes the tires to wear faster. For example, a 2013 Honda Accord V6 Coupe is 3200 pounds with a 60/40 front/rear weight distribution (1920 lbs front/1280 lbs rear). Therefore to help the tires wear more evenly, it is a good idea to rotate them. However, BMWs do not have this problem due to the nearly equal 50/50 weight distribution. so it is a matter preferance.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
How do square tires work, anyway?
The square tires are identical front and rear. The square sport tires on my 328i xDrive is 18x8.0 rims with 225/45 R18 tires on all 4 wheels.

The optional 19" Mixed tires wheels are 19x8.0 rims, 225/40 R19 front and 19x8.5, 255/35 R19 rear.

One note, staggered wheels (mixed tires) are much softer summer tires only and have a higher speed limiter of 155 MPH, therefore the softer tires wear much faster! How many times are you going to exceed 135 MPH?
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  #22  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:51 PM
wyaple wyaple is offline
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Pirelli Responds

Welp, I think I have my definitive answer. I emailed Pirelli and they responded.

================================================== =======
Subject: Tire Rotation for Cinturato P7 225/45-R18
Message: I have a 2013 BMW (RWD) with non-directional fully "square" tires. Can these be rotated (say every 5K miles)? I am getting conflicting reports about whether I can rotate these tires, although I always have on my current and former vehicles.
================================================== =======
William,

As long as they are not directional, or in a staggered fitment it would be recommended to rotate your tires every 3-5k miles.

Derek
Quality Technical Representative
1-800-747-3554 Option #2
consumer.affairs@pirelli.com
================================================== =======

Well how about that? I have 4600 miles on mine and I'll just squeak in my first rotation soon.



Bill
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  #23  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:53 PM
Trey100 Trey100 is offline
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Dealer Said Tire Rotation Will Damage Vehicle?

I rotated tires once in my life and I regretted it. The car was quiet and smooth before the rotation and then had road noise afterwards (most likely due to the uneven wear patterns). Never again.


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Old 11-18-2013, 07:25 PM
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raleedy raleedy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpgray View Post
The square tires are identical front and rear. The square sport tires on my 328i xDrive is 18x8.0 rims with 225/45 R18 tires on all 4 wheels.

The optional 19" Mixed tires wheels are 19x8.0 rims, 225/40 R19 front and 19x8.5, 255/35 R19 rear.

One note, staggered wheels (mixed tires) are much softer summer tires only and have a higher speed limiter of 155 MPH, therefore the softer tires wear much faster! How many times are you going to exceed 135 MPH?
I dunno. I just would think square tires wouldn't even rotate at all.
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  #25  
Old 11-18-2013, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
I haven't bothered rotating tires for a long, long time. If you do it yourself and like the bonding time with your car, then more power to you. But since BMW doesn't recommend it anyway, when you add that plus the actual cost of rotating, I'm not sure what you're saving.

In my case, my tires all tend to wear pretty evenly anyway. If one axle is wearing a lot less, then I just replace that axle at a later date. If one particular tire is wearing noticeably more, then I know I have an alignment problem.
Can't speak for the new car yet...it may be different.

My E46 also came with the "do not rotate" instruction, but the tire shop (America's tire co.) said they would refuse to give me credit for premature wear (which I ALWAYS had) if the tires were not rotated regularly by them (included in the cost of tire purchase and installation). Basically, without rotation, my rear tires would wear out with about 10K miles left on the fronts. Even with rotation, the continentals which I think had a 60K warranty, would be worn by around 40-45K. So there was a significant incentive for me to rotate back then.
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