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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #1  
Old 11-22-2013, 08:37 AM
claudiusp claudiusp is offline
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Run Flat Tires

My X3 is having 245/50/R18 Pirelli Run Flat Tire; for well known reasons, I intend to replace the RFT with conventional tires. I think a Michelin Primacy MXM4, or Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus. Any opinion, any issues?
Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2013, 08:42 AM
poker838 poker838 is offline
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Aside from wearing out the Run Flat Tires already, any other reason to change them now?

At this point the only reason I have to consider switching them out is to get tires that have better grip than the all season Pirellis it came with. No real opinion of the two alternatives you mentioned
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2013, 12:17 PM
flavius99 flavius99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudiusp View Post
My X3 is having 245/50/R18 Pirelli Run Flat Tire; for well known reasons, I intend to replace the RFT with conventional tires. I think a Michelin Primacy MXM4, or Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus. Any opinion, any issues?
Thanks.
Can you elaborate? Or provide a link? Why are you replacing the RFT's?
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2013, 08:12 AM
claudiusp claudiusp is offline
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Ride quality worse than conventional tires; you drive the 50 miles after a puncture but no auto store have the RFT to replace it, therefore you are stuck there; you can fix a punctured conventional tire and go, but you can not fix the RFT; life expectancy shorter; more expensive. Enough reasons for me!
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2013, 01:26 PM
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edbiology edbiology is offline
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yea i am also waiting for my factory tires to wear out. Gonna replace with regular tires from Costco.
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2013, 07:58 AM
Doug in NC Doug in NC is offline
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I have the Michelin MXM4 Primacy non-run flat. They are great. The X3 is now quiet.

With the OEM Pirelli tires the X3 sounded like it had mud tires. Also, at 30K miles the Pirelli's were worn out. I always maintained the air pressure and rotated those tires.

Of course the Michelin's balanced out perfectly. The Michelin's ride good, confident grip will in the rain. Very happy with the switch.

If Michelin had made an all season run flat for the X3 I would have purchased them, but they don't.
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2013, 08:35 AM
Masterx5 Masterx5 is offline
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I hear that RFT from bridgestong RE960 are 3rd gen and they are supposed to be quite good - as reviewed on tirerack for an E90....
still torn between RFT and nonRFT - it is just the hassle of always keeping another spare in the trunk and that eating up the space and carrying extra weight all the time !!
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2013, 09:11 AM
guyver626 guyver626 is offline
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Run Flat Tires

For all the people with go flats. What scissor jack do u recommend?


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  #9  
Old 11-24-2013, 05:36 PM
Doug in NC Doug in NC is offline
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I'm not carrying a spare, I bought a combination air pump with sealant. That should get me to the nearest tire store if the need ever arises.
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2013, 08:06 AM
percy0629 percy0629 is offline
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Question percy

Will replacing run flat tires with standard tires, and normal allignement, have a negative effect on your extended drive train warranty?
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  #11  
Old 12-02-2013, 11:13 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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I like the RFT's!
Many of the views about these tires are based on earlier versions. The technology has improved.

Complaints about rough(er) ride are dubious. I have driven on conventional tires of all sorts that "rode" roughly and were noisy.

The car's suspensions are tuned for run flats.

My mechanic opines that run flats corner better--stiffer sidewalls. Few will drive a car to this limit though.

I will say RFT's are beneficial in areas where roads are pot hole filled. The stiffer sidewalls protect the rim and the tire IMOP.

Many replace their RFT's with high performance tires. Great but still problematic if you blow one (real trouble if you blow two).
Many of these tires are almost as hard to replace as RFT's.

Everyone with RFT's should spring for the Continental pump and gunk kit for emergencies.
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  #12  
Old 12-02-2013, 12:30 PM
dudley07726 dudley07726 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug in NC View Post
I have the Michelin MXM4 Primacy non-run flat. They are great. The X3 is now quiet.

With the OEM Pirelli tires the X3 sounded like it had mud tires. Also, at 30K miles the Pirelli's were worn out. I always maintained the air pressure and rotated those tires.

Of course the Michelin's balanced out perfectly. The Michelin's ride good, confident grip will in the rain. Very happy with the switch.

If Michelin had made an all season run flat for the X3 I would have purchased them, but they don't.
My 2012 X3 with 17 inch tires have the Michelin Primacy MXM4 ZP Run Flat tires. They were the OEM tires on my vehicle. I think they are quite good. I couldn't even tell that the tires on the X3 are run flats. The ride is no way as harsh as the run flats on my old 2006 SC 430. Those had 18 inch wheels with Dunlop run flats. Horrible. I used to brace myself when a bump was coming. Changed them to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and the car felt completely different. .

Last edited by dudley07726; 12-02-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2013, 11:32 AM
Coder Coder is offline
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Agree with the RFT contingent, I think they handle well and are not noisy at all.

Has anyone had real experience with the air pump/sealant systems? I remember trying to use one years ago and it was a real waste, didn't work at all. I assume that they are much improved today. Is there a best brand?
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2013, 12:27 PM
claudiusp claudiusp is offline
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Those who like RFT, I can bet, you never had a puncture, yet! After a puncture you drive 50 ml. to discover that no shop have RFT; what to do? you want to repair the tire, and you are told that is risky because inside the tire the belt can be damaged and is not safe; you have to replace it, and you are told you should replace all four tires; and instead of paying $ 30 to repair a conventional tire you end up paying $2500. Nice!
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2013, 12:32 PM
dudley07726 dudley07726 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudiusp View Post
Those who like RFT, I can bet, you never had a puncture, yet! After a puncture you drive 50 ml. to discover that no shop have RFT; what to do? you want to repair the tire, and you are told that is risky because inside the tire the belt can be damaged and is not safe; you have to replace it, and you are told you should replace all four tires; and instead of paying $ 30 to repair a conventional tire you end up paying $2500. Nice!
I had a nail in my RFT, on the tread just before the sidewall.. Had it removed and fixed. Side wall damage is another story.
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2013, 12:53 PM
guyver626 guyver626 is offline
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Run Flat Tires

I agree that run flat tires suck. But driving down the highway last week on a very rainy day. I saw a guy on the side of the road changing a flat tire in the rain. Made me very glad I have the run flats. There are also 5 dealers here with in 50miles of me so I doubt I'll have the issue of finding a tire. Only troubling thing is if I ever plan a long road trip. But I'll deal with that when the time comes.


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  #17  
Old 12-03-2013, 02:15 PM
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Pat_X5 Pat_X5 is offline
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I have had RFT from 2001 till now.
So I have about 12 years of BMW RFT experience.
My 1st thru 3rd - instantly got a second set of wheels and conventional tires and loved them.

My 4th and current BMW and still don't like the RFT.

Yes, it's getting better but still not as quiet or comfortable as conventional tires.

I thought this latest set I got on my month old X would be better - yes it's quieter but still bouncy in the ride. Feels like I am on a roller coaster ride due to the higher center of gravity in the X.

Just found a spare on Craigslist so I am going to ditch the RFT and get a set of Conti DWS tires.

Can't wait to report back with conventional tires on these 20" wheels.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
I like the RFT's!
Many of the views about these tires are based on earlier versions. The technology has improved.

Complaints about rough(er) ride are dubious. I have driven on conventional tires of all sorts that "rode" roughly and were noisy.

The car's suspensions are tuned for run flats.

My mechanic opines that run flats corner better--stiffer sidewalls. Few will drive a car to this limit though.

I will say RFT's are beneficial in areas where roads are pot hole filled. The stiffer sidewalls protect the rim and the tire IMOP.

Many replace their RFT's with high performance tires. Great but still problematic if you blow one (real trouble if you blow two).
Many of these tires are almost as hard to replace as RFT's.

Everyone with RFT's should spring for the Continental pump and gunk kit for emergencies.
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2013, 06:17 PM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
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Maybe I am wrong, but until I get some personal experience I will stick to RFTs. I do prefer that my wife makes it back home with our daughter and then we will deal with the tires. She won't be messing with any kind of repair on the roadside and here in Quebec it often may take many hours before you get road assistance. And the distance between the school and home is very reasonable for RTFs. This argument also gets stronger in winter. As for me, even considering that I could change the wheel, often it would be unsafe or even impossible (on the bridge). Again, I prefer some limited mobility to safely make it home.
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2013, 08:51 PM
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Z4golfer Z4golfer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudiusp View Post
Those who like RFT, I can bet, you never had a puncture, yet! After a puncture you drive 50 ml. to discover that no shop have RFT; what to do? you want to repair the tire, and you are told that is risky because inside the tire the belt can be damaged and is not safe; you have to replace it, and you are told you should replace all four tires; and instead of paying $ 30 to repair a conventional tire you end up paying $2500. Nice!
$2500??? Are you buying your tires at Neiman Marcus?
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  #20  
Old 12-04-2013, 08:55 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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Here's the BMW company line:
Monty Roberts from BMW Product and Technology communications tells us that run flat tires are standard on most BMW models with the exception of some BMW M Models. He said specifically that run flat tires have several advantages and that they "Support BMW's EfficientDynamics Strategy by eliminating the extra weight of the spare tire, jack and tools in the vehicle for better balance, dynamic handling and fuel efficiency."

When asked about the criticism of run flat tires Roberts said "run flat tires by their design do have stiffer sidewalls than conventional tires, however, all current BMW models that use run flat tires have suspensions that were significantly developed for use with this technology." He added "These suspensions have been developed and tuned for the best possible ride comfort. The safety benefits of run flat tires are so significant as to outweigh any possible trade-offs."

When asked if owners could or should swap out their run flats either when a replacement tire is needed or because they're looking for added performance, Roberts was unequivocal. "We do not recommend replacing run flat tires with conventional tires," he said, "that deviates away from the original design, safety and suspension calibration technology that the run flats were originally designed for."


Question for all those replacing their RFT's with conventional tires:
Are you also having your suspensions recalibrated?
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  #21  
Old 12-04-2013, 09:23 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
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As with everything there are different sides of truth. Personally I do believe that RFTs add some convenience. And no doubts they have disadvantages. But you need to put this in the context of BMW. It is a luxury car. BMW is not competing with Honda Civics. They are selling their cars to the rich people, who are supposed to value comfort and service over cost. So they have built the cars and service organizations around them to make you comfortable but that comes at certain price. Why do you think they sell you the tire protection package? BMW expects you to finish at least a part of your trip on flat tire, then push that button at the top, call their road assistance, be towed to the nearest dealer. Where depending on the degree of damage (read - in most of the cases) you will have to buy a new set of tires at $1500 or so and get back on the road. If they do not have tires in stock you will drive away in another BMW car - at least if you live nearby.

It is also much simpler for BMW to design the cars when imposing certain limitations on the customers. You play by their rules, you agree to pay decent premium and you get decent service. Step left or step right - you are in troubles. Not too much different from Apple, if you think about it. Is that a reason to hate Apple? No. It is just not for everybody, that's all.

BTW, I am not defending their position. Personally I do consider $1500 for a set of tires is a lot of money, especially for a a nail hole that could be patched for less than $20 in 15 minutes anywhere. But by buying $70K vehicle you kind of agree to play by their rules. Just like when buying $2500 MacBook Pro you agree that your battery is soldered and glued to the board and you can't really buy a replacement one on ebay for $50 and replace it yourself.

I think the worst thing about RFTs is when you are travelling. I hate the idea of being in the middle of nowhere, 500km away from home with family and kids and having a punctured tire that ruins our vacation - not only because of $1500 but because it is Sunday and there is no BMW dealership in 300km from there I do believe that before going to the trip like this I will seriously think about getting a spare tire and the tools...or maybe even renting another car to be safer, which may be cheaper.

For home here is my personal plan on how to deal with RFTs. What is my problem? My problem is that I do not want to be caught with a need to shell out $1500+ for the set of new tires at the dealership suddenly after getting a nail. I want to try to fix it if possible and if not - buy a decent set of tires at fair price, not to be forced to pay a high premium to BMW dealer. I am thinking about not driving my current all-season tires to the end and replacing them with another set of (better) all season tires when the time comes. And then I will put the old set away instead of recycling them. So, if I get into troubles with my new tires I will have an option to put these used tires temporary and drive 1-2 weeks on them. That will allow me to do my research and order a good set of tires online and receive them. Or even order one replacement tire and have it shaved to the proper depth - I know TireRack offers this option.

Anyone else has any other practical plans on how to live with RFTs and not to go above your budget?
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2013, 09:47 AM
Sadi Sadi is offline
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Continental is well known for making RFT's.

Locally they now also sell "Contiseal" non-RFT's - albeit only in 2 sizes. This has an inner lining promising to seal punctures. Unfortunately only covers the inner tread area...

Now if only they could include this lining also on the inner sidewalls (together with the inner tread area) of their RFT's - and one may have the best of both worlds...
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  #23  
Old 12-04-2013, 10:43 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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As for tire and wheel protection packages--
They are offered by a lot of manufacturers and RFT's are NOT the main reason
Low profile tires (non RFT included) and alloy wheels are expensive!

When Volvo updated their image and put low profile tires and alloy wheels on their cars--Volvo drivers not used to being extra diligent for pot holes and road obstructions inundated the company with complaints (I believe there was a class action suit).

That IMOP is a real benefit of RFT's--the stiffer and stronger sidewalls afford additional protection to the tire and the wheel. Also I suffered conventional tires with failed sidewalls (bubbles) occasionally--from Pirellis ago Michelins. I have not encountered any such problem with the Conti RFT's.

As for the luxury issue.
The BMW's I have driven compare favorably to Audi's, M-B's Volvos etc as far as comfortable ride. These are not overly damped and cushy cars--trading a limousine ride for handling etc.

Then there is my question:
If the car's suspension is specially tuned for RFT's then one would assume the ride and handling are compensated for. Switching to conventional tires would, again, one would assume, compromise something?

Finally supposing one blows two conventional tires at the same time? (I did this once)
not to mention a flat in heavy city traffic or in bad weather on a road in the middle of nowhere?

My experience with RFT's has been just fine.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2013, 11:09 AM
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Mark K Mark K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
Here's the BMW company line:
Monty Roberts from BMW Product and Technology communications tells us that run flat tires are standard on most BMW models with the exception of some BMW M Models. He said specifically that run flat tires have several advantages and that they "Support BMW's EfficientDynamics Strategy by eliminating the extra weight of the spare tire, jack and tools in the vehicle for better balance, dynamic handling and fuel efficiency."

When asked about the criticism of run flat tires Roberts said "run flat tires by their design do have stiffer sidewalls than conventional tires, however, all current BMW models that use run flat tires have suspensions that were significantly developed for use with this technology." He added "These suspensions have been developed and tuned for the best possible ride comfort. The safety benefits of run flat tires are so significant as to outweigh any possible trade-offs."

When asked if owners could or should swap out their run flats either when a replacement tire is needed or because they're looking for added performance, Roberts was unequivocal. "We do not recommend replacing run flat tires with conventional tires," he said, "that deviates away from the original design, safety and suspension calibration technology that the run flats were originally designed for."
You know the famous "Why don't they eat a cake if they have no bread?" - that was for a longest time a default quote to signify "living in a bubble" and "detachment from reality". I think Mr Roberts needs to leave his usual bubble and visit the real world. In the real world, problems like closed tire stores on a Sunday of a Labor Day weekend happen quite often. Then people get sick of the BS and replace run-flat tires with regular tires since they have to lug around a spare anyway. Why not use the superior product at lower price when you have proven that run-flats without a spare are as useless as a bicycle is to the fish?

Ah, the spare tire and THE GENIUS of BMW engineering to not provide space for the spare tire ... See, I don't need spare tire if I drive in 50 mile radius from home - cell phone and a tow will do the job nicely and without a problem. Yes, if I cannot afford to spend $200 for a tow, I have no business driving a new BMW. Besides, just one set of tires without flat already offset the cost of the tow - and then some. And I'm on third set now, so ...

So, I do not need a spare for around town driving, that's established. But I do need it for a road trip, don't I? Now, BMW engineering geniuses, what else normal people take with them in the car when going on the road trip? No, not the slide rule, Hans ... they take luggage. You know? Thingy that holds your clothes, toiletries and weed? Yeah, that. Good. Now ... Do you have an idea where the said luggage is supposed to go? Werner, drop that stupid roof box design sketch and come back here! Where were we ? ... oh, yes, where to place the luggage in the car? ... anybody? No? OK, geniuses, the luggage is supposed to go THERE. That's what we call "trunk" and load it with luggage for road trip. Do you see what's in there? Ja, ze spare tire, correct. Soooo ... how am I going to fit the luggage in the trunk when a spare tire is there, geniuses? You know, the luggage that I need for a road trip?

Crickets ... after two years, still only crickets.

Seriously now, I travel a lot around this country and I lived in Europe for the first 34 years of my life. I get how Europeans (especially Germans) might see this as ideal solution. The problem is, when I think of long road trips I did all over Eastern US and possibility to do it in a BMW without a spare ... no, thank you. Even if rental company would offer to "upgrade" me to a BMW free of charge - Not. Going. To. Happen. Not without a spare tire, anyway.

Quote:
Question for all those replacing their RFT's with conventional tires:
Are you also having your suspensions recalibrated?
Nope, you already recalibrated it when you mounted regular high-quality tires. It's about as perfect as it will ever be now.
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2013 118d BMWNA Special Edition. Black on black cloth (yay!), 5 door hatchback, 140hp diesel. Special edition items: factory debadge| "VW", "Golf" and "TDI" badges factory applied | MT | Standard go flat tires | Spare tire (yay!) | No moonroof (yay!) .
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2013, 11:32 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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I don't get the "closed stores" thing. You can't get conventional tires in these cases.

My question about the suspension remains unanswered!

Also--we will never agree here.
There are pluses and minuses to both RFT's and conventional tires.

More and more tire stores are carrying RFT's and no one has mentioned all the car dealership (BMW plus M-B et al).
Where one can get an RFT.

There's that nagging safety issue.
I can think of a lot of interesting neighborhoods where a dude (or God forbid his wife or daughter) were trying to get
a donut on a BMW (or waiting for a tow truck) after pulling off the interstate. (another great place to change a tire).

No
I was skeptical about RFT's after reading stories on the Tire Rack site etc and even hesitated when getting my last 328 but
now after four years? I am never going back!

Last edited by JohnL345; 12-04-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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