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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #51  
Old 01-31-2014, 09:32 PM
poker838 poker838 is offline
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BAZAN - Yea, order from other sources. If you're intending on returning the lease, you can return any quality tire as long as it is RFT and it meets minimum wear threshold. You could also try buying second hand on sites such as kijiji etc

At 40,000kms I'm surprised it wore out this quickly. Are your tires underinflated or do you do a lot of dry turns? My dad has 35000 kms on his and its practically new.
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  #52  
Old 02-01-2014, 03:06 PM
bazan bazan is offline
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just normal driving... according to the rep at BMW ... it is about right.... I called around several shops in GTA and try to get the

POTENZA RE960A/S POLE POSITION RFT

apparently everywhere is sold out . I am not sure if it is discontinued or what.

Anyone have any idea where I can get them? I did look at tirerack but not sure if there will be duty... in regardless I dont think they have stock either.

Seems like really tough to find a replacement at a reasonable price

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  #53  
Old 02-02-2014, 06:02 AM
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windsor027 windsor027 is offline
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I have been leasing now for the past 13 years from BMW. When RFTs became the standard I simply started changing them out to non-run flats about 9 months into the lease (approximately 10k miles) and store them. When I have to return the car I put them back on. Just be careful how you store them and the tires are just fine. For me its the best of both worlds. I don't have to buy expensive RFT set, the non-RFTs are better ridding, cheaper and in many case handle better. Yes you do increase your risk of being stranded with a flat but that's why I have AAA. in the 8 or so years I have been doing this, and with 3 flat tires I never got stranded. When the overall condition of your tire is good and you get a nail in it you can pump it up and then go slow to the nearest shop and they will fix it for you for 40 dollars (unless its badly damage if you hit something big, but in that case the RFT will not be any good either).

With the pressure warning system and some common sense (I check tire pressure once a month on my cars) you should not have any issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
Here's the BMW company line:
Monty Roberts from BMW Product and Technology communications tells us that run flat tires are standard on most BMW models with the exception of some BMW M Models. He said specifically that run flat tires have several advantages and that they "Support BMW's EfficientDynamics Strategy by eliminating the extra weight of the spare tire, jack and tools in the vehicle for better balance, dynamic handling and fuel efficiency."

When asked about the criticism of run flat tires Roberts said "run flat tires by their design do have stiffer sidewalls than conventional tires, however, all current BMW models that use run flat tires have suspensions that were significantly developed for use with this technology." He added "These suspensions have been developed and tuned for the best possible ride comfort. The safety benefits of run flat tires are so significant as to outweigh any possible trade-offs."

When asked if owners could or should swap out their run flats either when a replacement tire is needed or because they're looking for added performance, Roberts was unequivocal. "We do not recommend replacing run flat tires with conventional tires," he said, "that deviates away from the original design, safety and suspension calibration technology that the run flats were originally designed for."


Question for all those replacing their RFT's with conventional tires:
Are you also having your suspensions recalibrated?
One of the reasons I like this board is because we have for the most part highly intelligent and motivated people posting. By nature of the product, most of us love cars and spirited driving. So when Mr Roberts states things like "don't change RFTs because we don't recommend because it deviates away from the original design, safety and suspension calibration technology we should all be offended. The only thing one should not do is replace original manufacture tires with a lower speed rating. Nothing for the money enhances handling and riding performance that a top shelf high performance non-RF after market tire.

And let me go one step beyond this. BMW has, in the name of a few pounds weight saving and fuel cost savings has done a disservice to their customers IMO for my F30 Sportline. Here is a 3 series with serious performance and the stock tire is a pathetic RFT 225/45 all around summer high performance tire. When I put the Contis 245/40s all around the car truly transformed for a good handling sport sedan to a great handling sport sedan with better ride to boot. The steering feel (a major complain for a lot of current F30 and F32 owners) also improved noticeably.

So thank Mr. Roberts for telling us not to do what every new BMW owner should be doing. The bottom line is RFTs are a solution "fits all". Its a convenient way to say you don't need a spare and you, Mr BMW owner don't need to be stranded when you have a flat. Just drive to the nearest BMW dealer and since you think you can afford a 40K to 100K car you should have no issue dropping 400 dollars for another "convenient" tire (that is if your other 3 RFTs are fairly new. If not give us 1600 and thank us for the great service).

But please Mr. Roberts don't insult our intelligence by commenting on RFTs unless you man up and say what they truly are. A convenient compromise that has gotten better but no where near to the real thing.
__________________
2014 X3 35i Dynamic Handling Package| Cold Weather Package | NAV | Premium hi-fi system | Driver Assistance Package.

2013 335i Sportline | M-adaptive | HK | NAV | PDC | Heated Front seats |6-speed MT.

2011 X5 35d Great SUV gone

2009 C350 Mercedes Gone 7-31-2012, good car but boooooooooring.

2008 X5 4.8i - Turned in 1/24/11 They created the Lemon law because of this SUV.

Last edited by windsor027; 02-02-2014 at 07:02 AM.
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  #54  
Old 02-02-2014, 08:49 AM
guyver626 guyver626 is offline
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Does one need AAA if they are already under warranty with BMW? Isn't it the same as BMW assist? Am I missing something here? Or do u get it more for certain discounts with AAA? Thanks for the replies!


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  #55  
Old 02-02-2014, 02:08 PM
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windsor027 windsor027 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyver626 View Post
Does one need AAA if they are already under warranty with BMW? Isn't it the same as BMW assist? Am I missing something here? Or do u get it more for certain discounts with AAA? Thanks for the replies!


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No you are not missing anything, if you are in a city or a big town BMW assist maybe the way to go. I have never called them and I don't know how they would react if they found I had non-RF tires on the car. My wife has used AAA once (on her X5, the other two times it happened on my 3-series cars, just pump up the tire with the portable pump I have in all my cars and drove to the nearest gas station). They send a tow truck and believe it or not the guy fixed the tire right there on the side of the road. It was just a nail and from what my wife told me the tire still had 20lbs of air pressure in it. Again if it was me I would have pumped it up and gone to the nearest gas station.

To answer your question you can use either. I feel AAA is a good deal for the membership I pay a year so that is why I have it.
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2014 X3 35i Dynamic Handling Package| Cold Weather Package | NAV | Premium hi-fi system | Driver Assistance Package.

2013 335i Sportline | M-adaptive | HK | NAV | PDC | Heated Front seats |6-speed MT.

2011 X5 35d Great SUV gone

2009 C350 Mercedes Gone 7-31-2012, good car but boooooooooring.

2008 X5 4.8i - Turned in 1/24/11 They created the Lemon law because of this SUV.
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  #56  
Old 02-04-2014, 12:44 PM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
I have been leasing now for the past 13 years from BMW. When RFTs became the standard I simply started changing them out to non-run flats about 9 months into the lease (approximately 10k miles) and store them. When I have to return the car I put them back on. Just be careful how you store them and the tires are just fine. For me its the best of both worlds. I don't have to buy expensive RFT set, the non-RFTs are better ridding, cheaper and in many case handle better. Yes you do increase your risk of being stranded with a flat but that's why I have AAA. in the 8 or so years I have been doing this, and with 3 flat tires I never got stranded. When the overall condition of your tire is good and you get a nail in it you can pump it up and then go slow to the nearest shop and they will fix it for you for 40 dollars (unless its badly damage if you hit something big, but in that case the RFT will not be any good either).

With the pressure warning system and some common sense (I check tire pressure once a month on my cars) you should not have any issues.



One of the reasons I like this board is because we have for the most part highly intelligent and motivated people posting. By nature of the product, most of us love cars and spirited driving. So when Mr Roberts states things like "don't change RFTs because we don't recommend because it deviates away from the original design, safety and suspension calibration technology we should all be offended. The only thing one should not do is replace original manufacture tires with a lower speed rating. Nothing for the money enhances handling and riding performance that a top shelf high performance non-RF after market tire.

And let me go one step beyond this. BMW has, in the name of a few pounds weight saving and fuel cost savings has done a disservice to their customers IMO for my F30 Sportline. Here is a 3 series with serious performance and the stock tire is a pathetic RFT 225/45 all around summer high performance tire. When I put the Contis 245/40s all around the car truly transformed for a good handling sport sedan to a great handling sport sedan with better ride to boot. The steering feel (a major complain for a lot of current F30 and F32 owners) also improved noticeably.

So thank Mr. Roberts for telling us not to do what every new BMW owner should be doing. The bottom line is RFTs are a solution "fits all". Its a convenient way to say you don't need a spare and you, Mr BMW owner don't need to be stranded when you have a flat. Just drive to the nearest BMW dealer and since you think you can afford a 40K to 100K car you should have no issue dropping 400 dollars for another "convenient" tire (that is if your other 3 RFTs are fairly new. If not give us 1600 and thank us for the great service).

But please Mr. Roberts don't insult our intelligence by commenting on RFTs unless you man up and say what they truly are. A convenient compromise that has gotten better but no where near to the real thing.
You need to look into how and why specific tires are selected by the engineers who design and build cars.

So it is a lie when BMW engineers tell you the suspensions are calibrated for RFT's and that just replacing them with non RFT's is no big deal? No wonder a lot of folks who do this talk about improved ride!

Also
I have found tires to be one of the most misunderstood items on automobiles. I often enjoy reading the personal stories on Tire Rack! (for laughs).

People buy and Lease BMW's because they buy into the "ultimate driving machine" thing yet are quick to "know better" than the folks who build their beloved "driving machines."
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  #57  
Old 02-04-2014, 05:02 PM
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windsor027 windsor027 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
You need to look into how and why specific tires are selected by the engineers who design and build cars.

So it is a lie when BMW engineers tell you the suspensions are calibrated for RFT's and that just replacing them with non RFT's is no big deal? No wonder a lot of folks who do this talk about improved ride!

Also
I have found tires to be one of the most misunderstood items on automobiles. I often enjoy reading the personal stories on Tire Rack! (for laughs).

People buy and Lease BMW's because they buy into the "ultimate driving machine" thing yet are quick to "know better" than the folks who build their beloved "driving machines."
RFT are a compromise nothing more, nothing less. You can make all the fun you want on how some of us "think" they know better than BMW engineers.
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2014 X3 35i Dynamic Handling Package| Cold Weather Package | NAV | Premium hi-fi system | Driver Assistance Package.

2013 335i Sportline | M-adaptive | HK | NAV | PDC | Heated Front seats |6-speed MT.

2011 X5 35d Great SUV gone

2009 C350 Mercedes Gone 7-31-2012, good car but boooooooooring.

2008 X5 4.8i - Turned in 1/24/11 They created the Lemon law because of this SUV.
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  #58  
Old 02-04-2014, 11:59 PM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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I haven't really heard any compelling support for the complaints about RFT's.
It is hard to see how so many simply dismiss out of hand a well thought out direction by a company known for
its use of innovation and technology--the reason these folks buy the cars in the first place.

BMW has made a pretty strong commitment to RFT's.
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  #59  
Old 02-05-2014, 05:15 AM
CEJ CEJ is offline
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My reason for replacing my RFTs with go-flat, conventional tires is our frequent vacation trips in very isolated areas in Utah and Wyoming. I'm also buying a full size spare and am willing to sacrifice nearly all of my F30 trunk space. These long, vacation-type road trips, by my wife & I, have been 4000-5000+ miles, at least twice a year, since we retired. We make advance reservations and even purchase non-refundable tickets for various activities along the way. We will put our luggage on the back seat.

We are not willing to risk ruining our vacations, being stranded, while searching for RFTs. There are areas in UT and WY that are so isolated that a damaged RFT would virtually strand us on another planet.

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Last edited by CEJ; 02-05-2014 at 05:16 AM.
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  #60  
Old 02-05-2014, 08:20 AM
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windsor027 windsor027 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
I haven't really heard any compelling support for the complaints about RFT's.
It is hard to see how so many simply dismiss out of hand a well thought out direction by a company known for
its use of innovation and technology--the reason these folks buy the cars in the first place.

BMW has made a pretty strong commitment to RFT's.
For someone living in NY city (pothole heaven) that is a very bold statement to endorse RFTs.
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2014 X3 35i Dynamic Handling Package| Cold Weather Package | NAV | Premium hi-fi system | Driver Assistance Package.

2013 335i Sportline | M-adaptive | HK | NAV | PDC | Heated Front seats |6-speed MT.

2011 X5 35d Great SUV gone

2009 C350 Mercedes Gone 7-31-2012, good car but boooooooooring.

2008 X5 4.8i - Turned in 1/24/11 They created the Lemon law because of this SUV.
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  #61  
Old 02-05-2014, 10:22 AM
flavius99 flavius99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
For someone living in NY city (pothole heaven) that is a very bold statement to endorse RFTs.
Nah, I didn't see any body endorse them, just putting the whole argument back on it's feet.
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  #62  
Old 02-05-2014, 11:23 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
For someone living in NY city (pothole heaven) that is a very bold statement to endorse RFTs.
I have had more problems with pot holes and conventional tires than with RFT's.

The stiffer sidewalls with RFT's protect that tire and more importantly the rim than do conventional tires.

I worked with Volvo for years and ended up purchasing more tires and rims……

In fact there was a class action suit against Volvo when they went to low profile tires on many of their vehicles. The typical Volvo owner was not used to the need to be extra careful.
Alloy rims also can not be fixed (like the older steel rims which could be hammered back into shape) they need to be replaced and they cost big bucks!

Conventional tires were more prone to sidewall damage--bubbles etc.

There are trade offs between Conventional tires and RFT's.

Again there's this from BMW:
“run flat tires by their design do have stiffer sidewalls than conventional tires, however, all current BMW models that use run flat tires have suspensions that were significantly developed for use with this technology.” He added “These suspensions have been developed and tuned for the best possible ride comfort. The safety benefits of run flat tires are so significant as to outweigh any possible trade-offs.”

When asked if owners could or should swap out their run flats either when a replacement tire is needed or because they’re looking for added performance, Roberts was unequivocal. “We do not recommend replacing run flat tires with conventional tires,” he said, “that deviates away from the original design, safety and suspension calibration technology that the run flats were originally designed for.”


I wonder how many folks swapping out RFT's for conventional tires are having their suspensions recalibrated?

For the folks who travel around Utah and Wyoming--there are numerous BMW dealers as well as tire shops that carry RFT's. Tire Rack would probably overnight Also--if you are so paranoid why not carry a spare RFT in the trunk? I would rather have the ability to go at least fifty miles than have to change a tire in the wilderness/rain/snow/110 degree heat for a donut!
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  #63  
Old 02-05-2014, 11:52 AM
flavius99 flavius99 is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
..There are trade offs between Conventional tires and RFT's...
I don't think anybody doubts that - and should somebody decide to replace new RFT's with something else - I wouldn't call him/her names in public, promise

I just checked one of the big German X3 forums. I don't see this discussed over there at all, instead we hear from the ADAC, the big German automobile club that RFT's are the single biggest revolution in the history of car tires - that's coming out of a country where people are actually driving the car.

Last edited by flavius99; 02-05-2014 at 04:02 PM.
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  #64  
Old 02-07-2014, 08:46 PM
jaceravone jaceravone is offline
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Replaced my first RFT this week after only owning my X3 for a month. Apparently been driving with a nail in the tire for two weeks. I just thought the tire pressure warning light was coming on due to the drastic change in temperature that we have had here recently. But mine was the real deal. Never at any time did I modify my highway or side road driving habits. Dealer was shocked to learn that I only had about 20 lbs of pressure left in the tire, but it held up. The $460 paid for the tire through the dealership hit a nerve in my wallet, but I definitely needed the tire and the vehicle was already up on the rack for the state inspection. I would say that the RFT paid off and possibly even prevented further damage. I have no problem with them, but the price tag can make one cringe.
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  #65  
Old 02-08-2014, 04:54 AM
todd92 todd92 is offline
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I chuckle at the run-flat apologists who who trot out the ridiculous "BMW says they are perfect, /end thread" argument. The claim that they improve dynamics by removing the weight of the spare neglects the fact that they are much heavier than conventional tires and added unsprung weight does far more to ruin dynamics than a 25 lb space saver spare in the trunk. As for the suspension calibration, trust me, it's calibrated much better with the RFT off.

Run-flats still suck, just not as much as they originally did. They are nothing more than a lame marketing ploy aimed at neurotic hausfraus, in an attempt to garner a few on the fence sales from Audi and MB.
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  #66  
Old 02-08-2014, 05:13 AM
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windsor027 windsor027 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaceravone View Post
Replaced my first RFT this week after only owning my X3 for a month. Apparently been driving with a nail in the tire for two weeks. I just thought the tire pressure warning light was coming on due to the drastic change in temperature that we have had here recently. But mine was the real deal. Never at any time did I modify my highway or side road driving habits. Dealer was shocked to learn that I only had about 20 lbs of pressure left in the tire, but it held up. The $460 paid for the tire through the dealership hit a nerve in my wallet, but I definitely needed the tire and the vehicle was already up on the rack for the state inspection. I would say that the RFT paid off and possibly even prevented further damage. I have no problem with them, but the price tag can make one cringe.
So let me get this straight. The low pressure warning was coming up and you never bothered to check the tire pressure on the tire? I am sorry I don't want to offend you but that is one of the irresponsible things a car owner can do. In fact I would think in such a situation RFT could give a driver a false sense of security. Remember even a RFT can't be driven for very long distances at speeds of more than 50 mph. When I get a warning I pull over immediately check the tire pressure, fill it up with air to the recommended levels and go to the nearest garage. No different in other words than a RFT.

The idea that a non RFT will leave you stranded is very off base because you have the pressure sensors and they come on with the tire still having at least 25 lbs or air pressure. All you need to have is a portable air compressor, fill the tire with air and go to the nearest garage. Unless you hit something and tear the tire apart, but then again you think the RFT can be driven when that happens?
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2014 X3 35i Dynamic Handling Package| Cold Weather Package | NAV | Premium hi-fi system | Driver Assistance Package.

2013 335i Sportline | M-adaptive | HK | NAV | PDC | Heated Front seats |6-speed MT.

2011 X5 35d Great SUV gone

2009 C350 Mercedes Gone 7-31-2012, good car but boooooooooring.

2008 X5 4.8i - Turned in 1/24/11 They created the Lemon law because of this SUV.
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  #67  
Old 02-08-2014, 11:14 AM
jaceravone jaceravone is offline
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Yes probably irresponsible but as they say, hindsight is 20/20. I had already done the tire pressure check a few weeks earlier when some other cold weather struck and set off the alerts on both of our x3's. I just thought it was the same thing going on.

Do the RFTs offer a false sense of protection? That's a good point. It's very well that they possibly do. Irregardless of the outcome, they did offer safe travels for the past two weeks without any issues.


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  #68  
Old 02-10-2014, 09:26 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todd92 View Post
I chuckle at the run-flat apologists who who trot out the ridiculous "BMW says they are perfect, /end thread" argument. The claim that they improve dynamics by removing the weight of the spare neglects the fact that they are much heavier than conventional tires and added unsprung weight does far more to ruin dynamics than a 25 lb space saver spare in the trunk. As for the suspension calibration, trust me, it's calibrated much better with the RFT off.

Run-flats still suck, just not as much as they originally did. They are nothing more than a lame marketing ploy aimed at neurotic hausfraus, in an attempt to garner a few on the fence sales from Audi and MB.
I haven't seen anyone claim RFT's are "perfect."
Guess what--neither are conventional tires. There are always trade offs.

I was skeptical leasing my first BMW but after 40K plus miles (still plenty of tread as well as no complaints re: handling or ride (I also had one tire inexpensively repaired--another myth down the drain), I have no complaints!

I do have plenty of horror stories re: conventional tires.

1--damaged tire sidewalls--bubbles
2--damaged rims due to potholes.
Damage a rim and most tire shops recommend replacing the tire as well given the likelihood the sidewall is also damaged.

3--I once hit a bad pothole and damaged two rims on same side--tires miraculously held air so I could drive to a repair shop--otherwise I was destined to wait for a flatbed--the donut was of little help! Ended up buying four rims and two new tires from Tire Rack!

4--low profile tires in a market north of the Mason Dixon Line are a gamble. Some roads here induce migraines straining to avoid pot holes and road obstructions! Think tires are a problem? Few mention rims.

5--ever sit on the side of a darkened road in the middle of nowhere waiting for BMW or AAA? In the cold? In the rain? Ever put a donut on in bad weather while semi's whiz by?

6--is your wife, mother, daughter, son, girl friend-- anyone who also drives your Beemer a "Hausfrau?"

Finally
Never buy tires from a dealer--unless you find the lowest price and he/she meets or beats it.
Ever wonder how dealers make a living on such low margins? Parts and service!

For added peace of mind! Purchase a repair kit--the Conti Comfortkit (Tire Rack has them for $79). Good for conventional tires as well as RFT's. A hell of a lot lighter and smaller than a damned donut!

Features:

• Braided air hose
• Threaded hose end (more secure than push-on, thumb-lock inflation head)
• 15-foot power cord
• Lighted pressure gauge
• Low-intensity LED supplemental work light

While it isn't intended to make tires sound quieter or ride smoother, Continental Tire's ContiComfortKit is capable of comfortably sealing typical tire punctures making it possible for you to complete the drive home, to work, an important appointment or a tire repair facility. The ContiComfortKit carries Germany's TUV approval and is suitable for use with passenger car tires, including run-flat designs, as long as the vehicle's recommended tire pressure does not exceed 43 psi (3.0 bar) and the tire dimension is within the recommended application range. The ContiComfortKit is only available for shipment to USA addresses.


By the way
If your car's suspension is tuned to accommodate RFT's then I just don't get the cavalier attitude about switching out those OEM's for a set of tires that have a different response profile and assuming your suspension will perform identically.

FroWhen "Identical" Tires Aren't The Same (Popular Mechanics)
Just because two tires look alike, it doesn't mean they'll perform alike. That's because tire manufacturers make rubber that appears to be identical but is actually made with different specs fA few years ago I watched a half-dozen tire-company engineers, all also skilled test drivers, examine a pair of visually indistinguishable tires that offered radically different wet-track performance. The first of these twin tires offered no more than modest damp-road traction, while the second was spectacular on the wet-handling course. All of us were in for a reminder of why two tires that look the same don't perform the same-a lesson that all car owners should take to heart. or different carmakers.
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  #69  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:14 PM
todd92 todd92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
1--damaged tire sidewalls--bubbles Can happen with RFT's equally
2--damaged rims due to potholes. Can happen with RFT's equally
Damage a rim and most tire shops recommend replacing the tire as well given the likelihood the sidewall is also damaged.

3--I once hit a bad pothole and damaged two rims on same side--tires miraculously held air so I could drive to a repair shop--otherwise I was destined to wait for a flatbed--the donut was of little help! Ended up buying four rims and two new tires from Tire Rack! Do you have a problem avoiding potholes?

4--low profile tires in a market north of the Mason Dixon Line are a gamble. Some roads here induce migraines straining to avoid pot holes and road obstructions! Think tires are a problem? Few mention rims. Huh?

5--ever sit on the side of a darkened road in the middle of nowhere waiting for BMW or AAA? In the cold? In the rain? Ever put a donut on in bad weather while semi's whiz by? I have had to change 2 tires in 20 years, so you're scenario is overrated and I was on my way in 15 minutes vs waiting hours for Roadside Assistance

6--is your wife, mother, daughter, son, girl friend-- anyone who also drives your Beemer a "Hausfrau?" My wife and daughters hate run-flats too and know how to use the mobility kit in the cars where the RFT's were ditched and know who to change a tire on the cars that have a jack and spare

Finally
Never buy tires from a dealer--unless you find the lowest price and he/she meets or beats it.
Ever wonder how dealers make a living on such low margins? Parts and service! Who goes to the dealer for anything but warranty work and included maintenance
Enjoy your Flintstone's tires!
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  #70  
Old 02-11-2014, 08:04 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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Todd92 response above is typical.
There is not one case made for switching out RFT's for conventional tires.

The main arguments against RFT's are:
Cost/difficulty in finding tires and repair shops that can fix them
Durability
Stiffer ride

The technology has improved to the point that cost/availability and repairability are less and less problematic.

Durability has little to do with RFT's--there are boatloads of complaints about the durability of conventional tires.
Sitffer ride?
This is a head scratcher. If BMW (oh Cadillac uses RFT's on their CTS and ATS vehicles) says they tune their suspensions for RFT's then it is mind boggling that people simply ignore this.
My guess is many of the problems associated with RFT's are really just consumers complaining about the one aspect of cars that..well..gets the most complaints--RFT or conventional tires.
It is really low profile tires on expensive alloy rims that are the cause of so much complaining.

I talked to my mechanic who specializes in exotic cars (and BMW's exotic and non) and he eliminated one myth:
RFT's can't be repaired.
They can.
Yet there are complaints about RFT's involving nails etc in the side wall. MOST ANY TIRE WITH SIDEWALL DAMAGE CAN'T BE FIXED (OR SHOULDN'T BE)--yet the RFT gets the blame! Typical.

Stiffer ride?--most of these complaints are due to low profiles as well as stiffer suspensions. (also stiffer frames). Handling vs ride are a delicate balance with trade offs. Why buy a BMW and then complain about the ride?

Rim protection? Common sense and experience. (yes Todd--I have been driving for over 40 years and worked with a major car company--I know all about avoiding pot holes and how to avoid them).
Even conventional tire makers are looking at technological means of protecting alloy rims with low profile tires. RFT's have stronger/stiffer sidewalls and common sense tells you the rim is better protected.

Why all the fuss?
When manufacturers went from full size wheel/spare tires to the donut guess what? people complained.

When manufacturers went to low profile tires on more expensive (and unrepairable) alloy rims guess what?
people complained!

Go to Tire Rack's site and read the consumer reviews --of any tire RFT or conventional--many are howlers written by people who obviously are blaming tires for every problem under the sun!

Cost--still higher than conventionals but getting better. By the way Todd--your query: who goes to dealers for tires? You didn't read the post in this thread from someone who did (and paid a small fortune) but you also seem to ignore the fact that dealers sell a hell of a lot of tires--someone is purchasing them!

The truth is--RFT's are not much more expensive than top of the line conventionals.

If your wife and daughters would answer the question:
would you
a) prefer to change a tire in the rain in the middle of the night (or wait for roadside assistance in the dark)
or
b) drive home

By answering yes to the first--then fine. Put conventional tires on your BMW (and buy the requisite donut and spare) and….here's the big and!
compromise handling and ride (I bet you didn't have your suspension tuned for those conventional tires--no wonder you think your getting a better ride!) then
fine by me.

I resisted the new technology too.
I read all the horror stories. (here and elsewhere). Over four years now--I have enough experience with RFT's to know a lot of those stories are misguided.
And speaking of "resistance" consumers are all in a twist over those new fangled "low resistance rolling" tires! Guess what?
Same complaints about milage/wear and ride etc etc etc.

Also-
Do you think BMW (and Cadillac) are stupid?
If consumer complaints over tires were significant enough to impact sales they would abandon the new technology?

There are pros and cons to everything. trade offs.
Tires are an easy target.
I would say few drivers understand tires (and suspensions).

RFT's are not perfect.
No tire is.

It is just a lot of what I see out here and there are silly baseless complaints.
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  #71  
Old 02-11-2014, 08:29 AM
todd92 todd92 is offline
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Everyone that ditches RFT's and replaces them with regular tires raves about the ride/handling improvement. EVERYONE. How do you explain that? Mass hysteria?

So you buy in to the security blanket marketing. Except RFT's still can and do leave wives and daughters stranded...

10 lbs less per wheel unsprung weight. 10 lbs less rotating mass on the perimeter of the wheel/tire. These are a HUGE deal.

You know nothing about vehicle dynamics and every time you respond with your silly diatribe you prove it.
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  #72  
Old 02-11-2014, 08:30 AM
newc6 newc6 is offline
Registered User
Location: Arizona
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 58
Mein Auto: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
Todd92 response above is typical.
There is not one case made for switching out RFT's for conventional tires.

The main arguments against RFT's are:
Cost/difficulty in finding tires and repair shops that can fix them
Durability
Stiffer ride

The technology has improved to the point that cost/availability and repairability are less and less problematic.

Durability has little to do with RFT's--there are boatloads of complaints about the durability of conventional tires.
Sitffer ride?
This is a head scratcher. If BMW (oh Cadillac uses RFT's on their CTS and ATS vehicles) says they tune their suspensions for RFT's then it is mind boggling that people simply ignore this.
My guess is many of the problems associated with RFT's are really just consumers complaining about the one aspect of cars that..well..gets the most complaints--RFT or conventional tires.
It is really low profile tires on expensive alloy rims that are the cause of so much complaining.

I talked to my mechanic who specializes in exotic cars (and BMW's exotic and non) and he eliminated one myth:
RFT's can't be repaired.
They can.
Yet there are complaints about RFT's involving nails etc in the side wall. MOST ANY TIRE WITH SIDEWALL DAMAGE CAN'T BE FIXED (OR SHOULDN'T BE)--yet the RFT gets the blame! Typical.

Stiffer ride?--most of these complaints are due to low profiles as well as stiffer suspensions. (also stiffer frames). Handling vs ride are a delicate balance with trade offs. Why buy a BMW and then complain about the ride?

Rim protection? Common sense and experience. (yes Todd--I have been driving for over 40 years and worked with a major car company--I know all about avoiding pot holes and how to avoid them).
Even conventional tire makers are looking at technological means of protecting alloy rims with low profile tires. RFT's have stronger/stiffer sidewalls and common sense tells you the rim is better protected.

Why all the fuss?
When manufacturers went from full size wheel/spare tires to the donut guess what? people complained.

When manufacturers went to low profile tires on more expensive (and unrepairable) alloy rims guess what?
people complained!

Go to Tire Rack's site and read the consumer reviews --of any tire RFT or conventional--many are howlers written by people who obviously are blaming tires for every problem under the sun!

Cost--still higher than conventionals but getting better. By the way Todd--your query: who goes to dealers for tires? You didn't read the post in this thread from someone who did (and paid a small fortune) but you also seem to ignore the fact that dealers sell a hell of a lot of tires--someone is purchasing them!

The truth is--RFT's are not much more expensive than top of the line conventionals.

If your wife and daughters would answer the question:
would you
a) prefer to change a tire in the rain in the middle of the night (or wait for roadside assistance in the dark)
or
b) drive home

By answering yes to the first--then fine. Put conventional tires on your BMW (and buy the requisite donut and spare) and….here's the big and!
compromise handling and ride (I bet you didn't have your suspension tuned for those conventional tires--no wonder you think your getting a better ride!) then
fine by me.

I resisted the new technology too.
I read all the horror stories. (here and elsewhere). Over four years now--I have enough experience with RFT's to know a lot of those stories are misguided.
And speaking of "resistance" consumers are all in a twist over those new fangled "low resistance rolling" tires! Guess what?
Same complaints about milage/wear and ride etc etc etc.

Also-
Do you think BMW (and Cadillac) are stupid?
If consumer complaints over tires were significant enough to impact sales they would abandon the new technology?

There are pros and cons to everything. trade offs.
Tires are an easy target.
I would say few drivers understand tires (and suspensions).

RFT's are not perfect.
No tire is.

It is just a lot of what I see out here and there are silly baseless complaints.
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  #73  
Old 02-11-2014, 08:53 AM
Masterx5 Masterx5 is offline
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Location: PA
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 212
Mein Auto: 2011 x3 3.5i
Have to agree with JohnL345 on his write up. It is the change that we all try to resist. RFT is an evolving technology and it will become better and a norm in coming years. I have been on fence about putting conventional but price differences is minimal at this point. Yes, the availability would be problem in remote areas and that concerns me. Hopefully with RFT norms on future rides will make it easier - until then we have to keep the company of 'Good Luck' !
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  #74  
Old 02-11-2014, 10:05 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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Location: New York City
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 214
Mein Auto: BMW 3 series soon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterx5 View Post
Have to agree with JohnL345 on his write up. It is the change that we all try to resist. RFT is an evolving technology and it will become better and a norm in coming years. I have been on fence about putting conventional but price differences is minimal at this point. Yes, the availability would be problem in remote areas and that concerns me. Hopefully with RFT norms on future rides will make it easier - until then we have to keep the company of 'Good Luck' !
I don't have a problem with someone favoring conventional tires over RFT's.
The problem is there are so few arguments against RFT's that make much sense.

Like I noted a while back--Volvo in the eighties went to front wheel drive cars shod with low (er) profile tires and alloy rims. The result? A rash of complaints from long time Volvo enthusiasts used to steel rims (repairable) and big fat high profile rubber tires!

Suddenly, you had to pay more attention to the awful pothole situation many of us have on local roads.

I even question the availability issues often raised.
There are BMW dealers pretty much everywhere these days and most Tire Chain stores--Mavis, Goodyear, etc etc carry or can easily get RFT's.

My local mechanic shop gets them in a day or two. Tire Rack and others on line can get tires shipped really quickly to most anywhere.

Remember you can drive around 150 miles on a RFT (especially with a Conti repair kit).

If you are really worried then buy an extra RFT and keep it in the garage.

The technology is improving. The availability is improving as well and prices appear to be coming down a bit.

The Conti SSR's (all seasons) on my last and current 3 series are great tires. The car I turned in after three years had tires with close to 50K miles on them and still had plenty of tread. They are quiet and comfortable. One was repaired (nail) with no problems.

If RFT's were as large a consumer problem as it sometimes appears on web sites and chat rooms etc then no car company is going to continue using them.

Every new technology is met with resistance--I recall a lot of questions about turbos when they started appearing under hoods! The buff books all griped about turbo lag yadda yadda yadda. Consumers were concerned about extra maintenance……..

Tires are an easy target.
I love the handling complaints--how many drivers are pushing any tires to even close to their limits?

But like in that Nike commercial:
"Gotta be the Shoes!"
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  #75  
Old 02-11-2014, 10:30 AM
todd92 todd92 is offline
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Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 628
Mein Auto: 13 X3 3.5, 05 ZHP
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