Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 F25 (2011 - current)

X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 02-19-2014, 06:37 AM
GTF GTF is offline
Registered User
Location: Saddlebrooke, MO
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 24
Mein Auto: M3, MDX
It seems this RF situation has caused a bit of a stir! Run flats was one of the factors which resulted in moving to a Macan over X3 35i. I think Porsche has the best alternative...they include tire sealant + compressor + space-saver spare. I'm old (opps...Senior), have purchased 22 new cars, driven well over a million miles, and never needed to change tire on road. Always picked up nails, etc. which allowed filling w/air & driving to tire repair. (Always carried compressor). I can't see driving on a tire that is heavier, has higher rolling resistance, less compliant, limited immediate access, and higher cost just to save a little weight & space and provide for a situation that in all probability will never occur. But that's what's fun about car shopping...we get to buy what we want!
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 02-19-2014, 06:41 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
I know the tires aren't "cheap" but it is the rims that can bankrupt you.
Contrary to some conventional wisdom, RFT's can be repaired from minor everyday occurrences like nails small punctures.
Decent rims, for sure

Personally I like the idea of RFTs. But at the same time I do not like the inconvenience of being stuck somewhere (especially with family and kids) with a flat RFT and no spare. With RFT you face a dilemma: drive where you need to be and destroy the tire or sit and wait for tow truck. First option means that most likely you will need to buy 4 new tires. Second option, considering my personal experience with BMW roadside assistance, means waiting for hours. And it might translate into the first option in some cases anyway That's why I am planning on getting that ContiKit soon. I believe in some cases it should provide the flexibility of finishing the trip more or less conveniently AND saving the tire that may be repaired.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 02-19-2014, 07:18 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York City
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 182
Mein Auto: BMW 3 series soon
Anyone with RFT's should get the compressor and sealant kit (Continental has one for about $80).
(there's no need to destroy the tire).

Rarely mentioned is the protection afforded by RFT's in blow outs. A high speed blow out is pretty harrowing and dangerous.
RFT's stay on the rim in case of a blowout and allow you to get the car safely off the road.

Ride/handling?
If Lexus is installing RFT's as standard on the SC430 and Corvette is using them as standard on all model variants not to mention BMW then
how much of a compromise is in play here? Again, what most detractors do not mention is the factory engineers tune suspensions for tires.
I would say you are more likely compromising handling and ride by swapping out RFT's for conventional tires.

The following is a well written treatise on RFT's:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ires.aspx?pg=1

Also, Tire Rack has done some interesting road tests or popular RFT's.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 02-19-2014, 07:23 AM
GTF GTF is offline
Registered User
Location: Saddlebrooke, MO
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 24
Mein Auto: M3, MDX
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
Anyone with RFT's should get the compressor and sealant kit (Continental has one for about $80).
(there's no need to destroy the tire).

Rarely mentioned is the protection afforded by RFT's in blow outs. A high speed blow out is pretty harrowing and dangerous.
RFT's stay on the rim in case of a blowout and allow you to get the car safely off the road.

Ride/handling?
If Lexus is installing RFT's as standard on the SC430 and Corvette is using them as standard on all model variants not to mention BMW then
how much of a compromise is in play here? Again, what most detractors do not mention is the factory engineers tune suspensions for tires.
I would say you are more likely compromising handling and ride by swapping out RFT's for conventional tires.

The following is a well written treatise on RFT's:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ires.aspx?pg=1

Also, Tire Rack has done some interesting road tests or popular RFT's.
The 430 and Corvette IMO chose RF due to space (lack of) considerations.
When they put RF on the RX, that would be meaningful.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 02-19-2014, 07:48 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York City
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 182
Mein Auto: BMW 3 series soon
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTF View Post
The 430 and Corvette IMO chose RF due to space (lack of) considerations.
When they put RF on the RX, that would be meaningful.
To whom?
Very few people commenting on RFT's will ever bring a vehicle (save for some economy cars) even close to its handling limits. No one reaches any tire's limits.

If these tires were so awful and manufacturers were losing sales in any significant numbers the technology would be abandoned ASAP.

The truth is the vast majority of people driving on these tires are not complaining. (this web site would run out of bandwidth!)
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 02-19-2014, 07:53 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,588
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTF View Post
When they put RF on the RX, that would be meaningful.
Toyota put runflats on their Sienna minivan.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 02-19-2014, 08:19 AM
GTF GTF is offline
Registered User
Location: Saddlebrooke, MO
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 24
Mein Auto: M3, MDX
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Toyota put runflats on their Sienna minivan.
Didn't know that...ya got me there (although may not be discernible difference w/marshmallow suspension)
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 02-19-2014, 08:31 AM
Fjrmann Fjrmann is offline
Registered User
Location: Pensacola, Florida
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 81
Mein Auto: 2011 X3 X35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Toyota put runflats on their Sienna minivan.
They also put them on the '09-'12 rav4 sport.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 02-19-2014, 08:40 AM
GTF GTF is offline
Registered User
Location: Saddlebrooke, MO
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 24
Mein Auto: M3, MDX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjrmann View Post
They also put them on the '09-'12 rav4 sport.
But dropped them for temp spare on new Rav 4.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:24 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York City
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 182
Mein Auto: BMW 3 series soon
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTF View Post
Didn't know that...ya got me there (although may not be discernible difference w/marshmallow suspension)
If you think about the market for this minivan it makes a lot of sense!
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 02-19-2014, 11:43 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,588
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
The 2014 Mercedes E350 luxury use runflats.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 02-19-2014, 11:53 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York City
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 182
Mein Auto: BMW 3 series soon
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The 2014 Mercedes E350 luxury use runflats.
For some reason anything new meets up with a certain amount of resistance.
Just google the latest innovation in tires--low rolling resistance models!

Also just pick any tire at random on Tire Rack--a standard tire not even an RFT. Read through some of the consumer reviews.

People (some) go nuts over tires. Tires are blamed for almost every problem with vehicles.
Same tire and one person claims it wore out at 20K miles and another swears he/she got 60K and still had a lot of tread!

A lot of people complaining about RFT's read a few complaints here (or elsewhere) and immediately start talking about swapping them out for conventional tires.
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 02-19-2014, 12:01 PM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post

A lot of people complaining about RFT's read a few complaints here (or elsewhere) and immediately start talking about swapping them out for conventional tires.
Explanation is very simple:

- conservatism on the owner's side
- infrastructure not ready on the commercial side
- current design and usability issues

To me personally the last two items mean this: if I get a flat RFT tire that cannot be repaired immediately, then I have no spare tire to drive around until I get a replacement tire. Which implies that my car is dead. And getting a good RFT tire at the price I am willing to pay may take time because most likely I will need to order fro TireRack or a similar store. If I go to the dealer (BMW) for the set of tires I would need to pay too much.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 02-19-2014, 12:27 PM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York City
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 182
Mein Auto: BMW 3 series soon
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
Explanation is very simple:

- conservatism on the owner's side
- infrastructure not ready on the commercial side
- current design and usability issues

To me personally the last two items mean this: if I get a flat RFT tire that cannot be repaired immediately, then I have no spare tire to drive around until I get a replacement tire. Which implies that my car is dead. And getting a good RFT tire at the price I am willing to pay may take time because most likely I will need to order fro TireRack or a similar store. If I go to the dealer (BMW) for the set of tires I would need to pay too much.
Fair enough.
I would say that if you have a Conti compressor and gunk kit you should be able to get a lot more use out of that "flat."

For most problems, the tires can be repaired. I had a slow leak in one due to a nail and got it repaired no problem.

For replacement tires--(the dealer should be the last option) I have found more and more Tire chains and local mechanics--especially those specializing in BMW's--have them or can get them with a days notice.

I have to admit, I have had more problems with conventional tires. The worst being rim damage with low profiles. (I still like the extra protection a stiffer/stronger sidewall provides.)

Also I once had irreparable Michelin on a Volvo coupe--best tires imaginable. Turns out they discontinued the tire--I couldn't find them anywhere. I ended up buying four new tires--the one Michelin said replaced the old model--worst tire (for that car at least) imaginable.

I do think the infrastructure has improved greatly as has the design and usability.

The cost--especially when compared to top of the line conventional tires is really not that much more.

With other manufacturers moving to RFT's, availability and cost should come down. Evidently, Europeans have embraced RFT's more quickly than we have here in the US.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 02-19-2014, 01:17 PM
GTF GTF is offline
Registered User
Location: Saddlebrooke, MO
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 24
Mein Auto: M3, MDX
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The 2014 Mercedes E350 luxury use runflats.
And a happy lot they are:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w212...0-bluetec.html
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:57 AM
jeff_K jeff_K is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Hong Kong
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 154
Mein Auto: BMW X3 28i
50 Km is good enough to get to a tire shop in my locality. Friends of mine who own vehicles with RFTs are all for the tires. One had experienced 6 episodes of low pressure warning due to nail in tire. She could still drive safely to work and then get it repair on the way home; no sweat. In my opinion, BMW engineers can't be wrong or the RFTs would have been abandoned. So, for me, what comes with the car stays with the car. Will not even think of swapping out the RFTs. The last time I changed a completely flat tire with the spare on my Lexus took me 25 mins. Hands were dirty and blistered + I was sore all over. I was completely drenched in sweat at the end of it, not to mention late for work as well.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 02-20-2014, 02:26 AM
Anfänger Anfänger is offline
_________________
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 69
Mein Auto: 2013 X3 35i
The market share for run flats in the US is still tiny (below 1% according to Wikipedia). Even the most optimistic projections of growth would still leave run flats serving a niche market for well over a decade. in the circumstances, a little skepticism from car owners seems entirely reasonable. Not everyone enjoys being an early adopter of an evolving technology—particularly when it represents a solution to something that many consider a non-problem.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 02-20-2014, 04:57 AM
todd92 todd92 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 609
Mein Auto: 13 X3 3.5, 05 ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
The market share for run flats in the US is still tiny (below 1% according to Wikipedia). Even the most optimistic projections of growth would still leave run flats serving a niche market for well over a decade. in the circumstances, a little skepticism from car owners seems entirely reasonable. Not everyone enjoys being an early adopter of an evolving technology—particularly when it represents a solution to something that many consider a non-problem.
But what about the women and children?
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 02-20-2014, 06:06 AM
GTF GTF is offline
Registered User
Location: Saddlebrooke, MO
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 24
Mein Auto: M3, MDX
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_K View Post
50 Km is good enough to get to a tire shop in my locality. Friends of mine who own vehicles with RFTs are all for the tires. One had experienced 6 episodes of low pressure warning due to nail in tire. She could still drive safely to work and then get it repair on the way home; no sweat. In my opinion, BMW engineers can't be wrong or the RFTs would have been abandoned. So, for me, what comes with the car stays with the car. Will not even think of swapping out the RFTs. The last time I changed a completely flat tire with the spare on my Lexus took me 25 mins. Hands were dirty and blistered + I was sore all over. I was completely drenched in sweat at the end of it, not to mention late for work as well.
RFs are the perfect solution in situations like this. (Although your friend should select an alternate route to work...6 nails?! Look for the local tire dealer running around at night with a pocket full of nails and a hammer).
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 02-20-2014, 06:10 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York City
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 182
Mein Auto: BMW 3 series soon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
The market share for run flats in the US is still tiny (below 1% according to Wikipedia). Even the most optimistic projections of growth would still leave run flats serving a niche market for well over a decade. in the circumstances, a little skepticism from car owners seems entirely reasonable. Not everyone enjoys being an early adopter of an evolving technology—particularly when it represents a solution to something that many consider a non-problem.
This is true. Those wiki numbers are from 2005 though.
"Niche market" is where most new technologies begin. The facts that the vast majority of people driving vehicles with RFT's are fine--as indicated by the growing sales of BMW and the increased use by other manufacturers.

Also important is at this point mostly higher end vehicles are equipped with them. Their growth in use will be top down.

Here's a more realistic overview:
http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/...growing-slowly

Tire Rack has tested RFT's:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=164

Again, I would point out that while not entirely without merit, the complaints about RFT's generally stem from:
--- a lack of knowledge about them
---wrong headed conventional wisdom
---resistance to new technologies
---the fact that tires are the one area consumers seem most obsessed with--
mainly because they are the one piece of equipment on a vehicle they can monkey with easily.
Bad conventional wisdom spreads like wildfire--a "stiffer" ride is more likely attributable to low profile tires and performance oriented suspensions on some luxury cars than to Run Flats.
The assumption is--gotta be the tires!

The handling complaints are IMOP mostly ridiculous. How many people complaining about handling are pushing their vehicles to the limits where handling becomes an issue?

Most of the benefits are down played or minimized. It is not just about "convenience" though the increased trunk space is great.

I would say the safety aspect in a high speed blow out is probably number one.

The ability to safely drive on after losing pressure--few people add the compressor and sealant kits (which by the way, should be on board cars with conventional tires).

No worries about physically changing a tire or waiting--how about a all those complaints about waiting times for BMW assist or AAA?).

Extra protection of expensive rims from pot holes or road obstructions

I'll add my mechanic's theory though it hasn't been proven--he thinks they do add some stability in cornering at all speeds.
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 02-20-2014, 06:12 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,588
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
Not everyone enjoys being an early adopter of an evolving technology—particularly when it represents a solution to something that many consider a non-problem.
Buying a BMW means we are early adopter of an evolving technologies, otherwise, we can all drive around in a low tech but very reliable Toyota.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 02-20-2014, 06:17 AM
flavius99 flavius99 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NH
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 158
Mein Auto: 2014 X3 28i
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Buying a BMW means we are early adopter of an evolving technologies, otherwise, we can all drive around in a low tech but very reliable Toyota.
Isn't that the Audi mantra - *Vorsprung durch Technik* ? Aren't we supposed to just drive the thing?
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 02-20-2014, 06:34 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York City
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 182
Mein Auto: BMW 3 series soon
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Buying a BMW means we are early adopter of an evolving technologies, otherwise, we can all drive around in a low tech but very reliable Toyota.
Good point.
I admit I am not thrilled by the "new" start stop technology. Especially given it is the default mode and not a driver's second choice!

I also admit I was concerned about the Run Flats. After three years on the Conti All seasons OEM's (one slow leak due to a nail--contrary to bad conventional wisdom it was fixed easily and cheaply). I noticed no problem with the ride. Little road noise.

I am on my second three year stint with my new 2013 shod with the same Conti all seasons--these are excellent tires! I would now have a hard time going back to conventional tires!

I still prefer the BMW in almost every category important to me.

One other thing.
If RFT's are so "stiff" and present ride problems--how does one explain all the complaints about the "softer" ride on the latest models!? All shod with……RUN FLATS?

Every car manufacturer is making concessions though. A Porsche SUV!? A Bentley coupe?!
M-B makes what amounts to a mini van for Europe!

Let's face it--the RFT's have been around for a lot longer than most know. I didn't realize Bridgestone's early foray into the technology was for the PORSCHE 959 (yeah Porsche engineers were concerned about more space in the boot than handling!).

Yes the technology is still evolving and earlier efforts were problematic.
I still think most tire complaints are more related to low profile tires than tire construction.
People are complaining about RFT's and gas milage (Tire Rack discovered an increase of $79 per year for RFT's over conventionals) AND Google "low rolling resistance tires" and look at all the complaints! Yes--people want it both ways!
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 02-20-2014, 08:48 AM
farg farg is offline
Registered User
Location: Oregon
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
Mein Auto: 2014 X3 3.5i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_K View Post
50 Km is good enough to get to a tire shop in my locality. Friends of mine who own vehicles with RFTs are all for the tires. One had experienced 6 episodes of low pressure warning due to nail in tire. She could still drive safely to work and then get it repair on the way home; no sweat. In my opinion, BMW engineers can't be wrong or the RFTs would have been abandoned. So, for me, what comes with the car stays with the car. Will not even think of swapping out the RFTs. The last time I changed a completely flat tire with the spare on my Lexus took me 25 mins. Hands were dirty and blistered + I was sore all over. I was completely drenched in sweat at the end of it, not to mention late for work as well.
25 minutes!! I bet you coulda got it done quicker if your stupid kid hadn't dropped the lug nuts in the snow and said "oh fudge......"
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 02-21-2014, 06:56 AM
jeff_K jeff_K is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Hong Kong
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 154
Mein Auto: BMW X3 28i
Quote:
Originally Posted by farg View Post
25 minutes!! I bet you coulda got it done quicker if your stupid kid hadn't dropped the lug nuts in the snow and said "oh fudge......"
As a matter of fact, I have one lovely smart kid who is now a full grown adult. And there is no snow over here to bother me.

Car was parked in shopping mall multi-storey carpark, sandwiched between 2 cars on that occasion. With a completely flat front tire, I think it would do more damage to drive around to find an open space. How long would you take just using the tools that came with the car?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 F25 (2011 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms