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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E30 (1982 - 1993)

E30 (1982 - 1993)
God's Chariot. The E30 was produced primarily from 1982 through 1991. The cabriolet was the one exception which was produced through 1993.

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  #1  
Old 12-06-2013, 10:13 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Unhappy Calling all E30 people!

Okay guys.. Here's an updated post on what I'm experiencing. So my 1984 318i would not start yesterday and when I turned the key to the on position I didn't hear the fuel pump come on, but I tried starting the car and it wouldn't start..

I then noticed that there was no pressure in the fuel line that led to the cold start valve, so I took the line off and there was absolutely no fuel in the fuel rail, I then checked all my fuses, and I found the fuel pump relay, and put a jumper wire in pin 30 of the fuel pump relay base an put the other end of the wire in pin 87, I then plugged the relay in, and one of the fuel pumps came on and would not shut off?..

All I heard was the fuel pump and what sounded like quiet bubbling noises from something under the car.

So I then tried starting the car again and nope.. Still no fuel to the fuel rail. So what I'm thinking is it's got to be either the inline fuel pump or the in tank fuel pump.. Which one do you think it is, if you think it's the fuel pump?....... And where are those fuel pumps located on my car?.. I have to get all this done as fast as possible because I have work on Monday and this is my only vehicle :O

Any help and info is appreciated.. Thanks for reading.
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2013, 10:37 PM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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The in-tank pump is located....wait for it.....in the tank! The in-tank pump is a transfer pump. It is a low pressure, high volume pump. It lifts the fuel and delivers it to the in-LINE (outside) pump, which is a high pressure, low volume pump. If the in-TANK pump fails, the in-line pump won't be able to deliver fuel, even though it may be running.

Remove the rear seat bottom. Remove the three screws that hold the access cover in place. Remove the cover. There's the connections to the pump. Test the wiring for voltage. You can jumper the pump to see if it will run when wired directly. If you can't get it to run, it will have to be replaced. If it runs but pumps no fuel, the strainer in the tank may be clogged . You can remove the pump and clean it. The BROWN wire is the ground. Don't connect power to it backwards.

The in-line pump is just outside the tank, to the right side of the car. You can likewise jumper that to get 12 volts directly to it. Again, the BROWN wire is ground. The fuel filter is next to the pump.

By the way, you really shouldn't start multiple threads about the same problem. It makes future searches fragmented and difficult to follow. Your first thread was getting plenty of responses. You should have posted this question there.
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1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira" 1985 635CSi "Katja" 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"
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Last edited by hornhospital; 12-06-2013 at 10:41 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2013, 02:24 AM
Billwill Billwill is offline
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What hornhospital said^^^^^

Also when you jumper pins out in a relay socket....do not put the relay back in place...this can open up the female contacts and give you a bad contact in future; you may have to carefully squueze the female pins back together a little.
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2013, 01:55 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Thanks for both of the reply's, and sorry about that, I just meant where the inline fuel pump is haha.. Kinda made myself look stupid there. But I went ahead and checked the voltage on both fuel pumps and neither of then are getting power, the only way I can get power to them is if I put one end of a wire in pin 30 of the fuel pump relay base and the other side of the wire in pin 87, then I have to plug the relay in after that to get any power. But if I do that, the in tank fuel pump won't shut off, even with the key out of the ignition. Also, when I dis connect the battery on the car, then re connect it, I can hear the inline fuel pump come on for a second.

(Correct me if I'm wrong) But, I'm guessing that it's the fuel pump relay that's bad. I checked at my local auto parts store how much a new relay would be and they said around $70+ without shipping. Is there anyway I can just bypass it and wire the pump up to a switch?.. Or do you all have any suggestions?
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2013, 03:27 PM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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Bah! Shop on line at one of the fest vendors. Contact Ken at Bavauto, he's on the fest. Fuel pump relay is less than half what your auto parts place wants.

It's more likely you have a dead crank position sensor. Unless the ECU "sees" the crank turn, it won't close the fuel pump relay, so you'll never get power to the pump. Since you can jumper the relay, it shows you DO have power there. DO NOT put a manual switch in to replace the relay. The relay is a safety feature. You can't forget to turn off the relay. If you are in a wreck, the power to the pump is cut as soon as the engine stops.

Three questions:

1) do you have spark?

2) will it start on starter fluid?

3)are the injectors firing?

If no to any of those, you have more problems than just a fuel pump circuit issue.
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Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
nothing is more expensive than a cheap BMW...c4harpe13
buying a ratty example (of a BMW) is a parasitic relationship.(and you ain't the mosquito) 7pilot

Ken Kanne, Silverhill, AL, E36 Forum Mod/Craigslist addict/Hoarder of all sorts of stuff
BMW-CCA #441426
1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira" 1985 635CSi "Katja" 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"
HAVE I HAD MY MEDS YET?

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  #6  
Old 12-07-2013, 04:36 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Will do. Thank you!! And it's possible.. How can I find out if that's dead? It also has to be something else though because when I turn the key to the "ON" position, neither of the fuel pumps come on. I know both of the pumps work though because when I do the jumper wire thing, both of the pumps come on, they don't shut off until I take the wire out though.

And, it won't start on starting fluid, also, how do I test if the injectors are firing? And how do I check if it has spark? (Sorry for the newb questions)
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2013, 05:06 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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I'm pretty sure it has spark, and the injectors are firing.
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  #8  
Old 12-07-2013, 05:07 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Spark plugs were recently replaced also. And I believe the injectors were also replaced recently.
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  #9  
Old 12-07-2013, 08:33 PM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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You can't be "pretty sure" if it has spark or if the injectors are firing. If it won't crank on starter fluid, you at minimum have no spark. If you don't have spark, it's pretty likely you don't have injector pulses, either.

You test for spark by either pulling a plug wire and insert a screwdriver tip in it, then spin the engine while holding the screwdriver shank close to a ground. It should jump a nice blue spark. Better check is to buy a spark tester at the auto parts store and use it. They are inexpensive and easier to use than the screwdriver test. You won't get the crap knocked out of you, either, like is possible with the screwdriver test.

To test for injector pulses, you can either buy a "noid" light kit (no kidding, that's what it's called) and use it, or buy a #194 bulb, straighten the wire leads out so it will plug into an injector connection plug and spin the engine. You should see a faint pulse in the light.
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Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
nothing is more expensive than a cheap BMW...c4harpe13
buying a ratty example (of a BMW) is a parasitic relationship.(and you ain't the mosquito) 7pilot

Ken Kanne, Silverhill, AL, E36 Forum Mod/Craigslist addict/Hoarder of all sorts of stuff
BMW-CCA #441426
1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira" 1985 635CSi "Katja" 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"
HAVE I HAD MY MEDS YET?

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  #10  
Old 12-08-2013, 06:33 AM
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BMWFatherFigure BMWFatherFigure is offline
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Hate to be a doom sayer but DD sounds a bit out of his depth. DD do you have any really car wise mates to come over and help out? Do you have a manual (Bemtley)?
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  #11  
Old 12-08-2013, 10:21 AM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Okay, thank you DownHiller, I ordered a new relay yesterday, and will post results once I get it. And in the meantime I'll do all those tests and see what I come up with. I appreciate the help a ton.
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  #12  
Old 12-08-2013, 10:23 AM
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toybuilder toybuilder is offline
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Sounds like it's your relay they cost a little less than you quoted at Pelican Parts .Also you need to know which one you need the one for 318i 's built after 12/84 cost more than the one for cars built before that.You need to check the build date on your car it's on the door tag.Sorry too slow
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  #13  
Old 12-08-2013, 05:34 PM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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If your car was built before 12/84, it takes fuel pump relay part number 13 63 1 276 264 . Pelican has it for $30.25. If it was built 12/84 or later it takes part number 13 63 1 714 195. It is $52.00 from Pelican.

Like toybuilder has said, you need to look at your VIN tag on the door frame and get the build date to determine which relay you need. I hope you didn't spend $70+ for it and it turns out to be wrong. By the way, if you ordered it from the auto parts store, they shouldn't charge you shipping if you pick it up at the store.....if they do, they're ripping you off.
__________________
Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
nothing is more expensive than a cheap BMW...c4harpe13
buying a ratty example (of a BMW) is a parasitic relationship.(and you ain't the mosquito) 7pilot

Ken Kanne, Silverhill, AL, E36 Forum Mod/Craigslist addict/Hoarder of all sorts of stuff
BMW-CCA #441426
1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira" 1985 635CSi "Katja" 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"
HAVE I HAD MY MEDS YET?


Last edited by hornhospital; 12-08-2013 at 05:35 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-09-2013, 08:05 AM
Ken@BavAuto Ken@BavAuto is offline
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Well it's Monday any luck getting it going? One of the nice things about the 318 fuel injection is that it uses an actual distributor so troubleshooting a no-start is a bit easier. However if you've jumped the relay and the car still wouldn't run I suspect a new relay isn't going to do it. I've seen a bunch of the early dual-pump cars like this run for a long time on just one of the two which overworks the remaining pump. That could be what happened here, or of course it could be a lot of things. First thing I would do if the relay doesn't do the trick is check for spark. Then check to see if you're actually getting power to both pumps with a test light. If they are getting power and aren't pumping it's time for some pumps. Test first though. Just randomly throwing parts at a no-start gets expensive quick.

We did a no-start guide for a blog a while back. It's more geared towards the later Motronic injection systems but it could be helpful here too.

http://blog.bavauto.com/3562/no-start-1989-325i-e30/
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  #15  
Old 12-11-2013, 02:38 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Alright guys.. So I got the relay about 10 minutes ago, I ran out there put it in, turned the key to the on position and both of the pumps turn on!! I tried starting it but nope.. Still no fuel to the fuel rail.. I also noticed that both of the pumps stay on when I turn the key to the on position, they won't shut off unless I take the key out or turn the key back to accessory..
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Old 12-11-2013, 03:13 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Could it possibly be the in tank fuel pump?.. I hear it working but.. Idk.. I hear both of the pumps running. I have the fuel pump I got in a trade that I can try and fit in there, The guy said it was a 255lph. Also when the car is shut off I can hear bubbling by the inline pump?..
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:33 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Anyone?..
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:32 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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I'm gonna pop off a fuel line before the inline pump to see if the in tank pump is delivering gas. Then if so, I'll pop off a line after the inline pump and go from there.
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  #19  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:25 AM
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downhiller downhiller is offline
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if you hear bubbling in the line your intake pump is shot/clogged.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:05 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Okay guys, so not sure if I should have done this or not but I wanted to know of the in tank pump was bad, so I took it out, took all the lines off, stuck it in a cup of water, and then turned the car on, the pump didn't suck any water up to the top, and all that it did suck up it spit out at the bottom by the filter, so I'm guessing I have a bad in tank pump?..
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:13 PM
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yes its bad
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:14 AM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Okay, so I rigged in this 255lph pump that I had laying around.. I think it was originally for a 240sx, but I re did the connectors, and had to custom fit it, but I popped it back in the tank turned the key and YAY! Fuel is now being pushed to the fuel rail. But one question, when I turn the key to on, the pumps won't stop priming?.. Normally they were just on for like 2 seconds then shut off till I started the car. Is that bad if it keeps priming like that?.. I have yet to start it because my battery is dead and on the charger. But I'll post results once I try and turn it over.
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Old 12-13-2013, 01:51 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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So I charged the battery and it started right up! I went inside for a minute to let it run, and I heard it start dying like it had a massive lope.. Then it died.. So now it will start right up, but only for two seconds, then it falls flat on its face.. And dies..
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:38 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Alright, I looked into the problem more and for some reason the car acts normal, start up fine! Then all of the sudden it blows a 15A fuse in the fuse box and the pump shuts off.. Then the car dies. Then I replace the fuse start it up, runs fine! Then after 2 minutes of running again, it blows the fuse again.. Fuel pump shuts off, car dies, again.. Same thing over and over..
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:31 PM
DailyDrivted DailyDrivted is offline
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Can anyone chime in on this?.. One more thing.. With my old fuel pump relay I put it in turn the key to on and the fuel pump relay primes for about a quarter of a second then shuts off until I start the car. But with the new fuel pump relay I ordered, I put it in, turn the key to on and the fuel pump relay primes, and does not stop priming until I turn the key off.
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