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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #26  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:21 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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I hope your vehicle is still under warrantee. Presumably the dealer checked out the fuel delivery system completely. I have never heard of replacing ALL injectors and plugs at 30K but that is just my experience(54 years of driving). From what you are relating seems more like a software issue with perhaps fuel pressure/metering to injectors. Let us know. Sorry you are having such problems with such a lovely motor vehicle.
AL

Last edited by Fastpaddler; 03-01-2014 at 02:22 PM.
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  #27  
Old 03-01-2014, 04:18 PM
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octopump octopump is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gres718 View Post
Do you use "ethanol free" gas?
I am getting similar highway numbers on my 550xi that is 100HP weaker .

IMHO: ethanol addition is one of biggest scams ever.
Why would you add 10% of crappy ethanol and loose 10-15% MPG?

Agreed but I had looked it up: there are now few stations you can still get Ethanol free gas, at least in NYC.
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  #28  
Old 03-03-2014, 01:46 PM
Gres718 Gres718 is offline
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Originally Posted by octopump View Post
Agreed but I had looked it up: there are now few stations you can still get Ethanol free gas, at least in NYC.
really? care to share where?
( there is nothing on pure-gas.org)
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  #29  
Old 03-06-2014, 12:28 AM
schnell525 schnell525 is offline
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Do your catalytic converters stink...like a rotten egg smell?
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  #30  
Old 03-06-2014, 06:26 PM
weinschela weinschela is offline
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AFAIK, there are no gas stations in or near metro NY that can provide "pure" gas. But since everyone here is using the ethanol gas, whether we like it or not, doesn't that eliminate the gas the culprit for the OPs bad mileage? If it was the ethanol, then everybody would be reporting similar problems. No, there is something amiss in that car. If it isn't the fuel system, why not have a good look at transmission and exhaust systems? Time for a different dealer to have a look? The fuel system is supposed to under warranty because its related to emissions, no?
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  #31  
Old 03-06-2014, 07:01 PM
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ausdude ausdude is offline
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That close to what I was getting in my Mercedes cl600. But , that car had a v12 and was extremely heavy. My 550 didn't get very good mileage either. But not that bad!
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  #32  
Old 03-08-2014, 08:26 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell525 View Post
Do your catalytic converters stink...like a rotten egg smell?
Thanks for your post, but no, not that I know of. :|
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  #33  
Old 03-13-2014, 04:14 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Originally Posted by dbs600 View Post
Getting to be pretty ridiculous!
Don't know what to say!

Brought my car back to my dealer a week ago and today they called to state they opened a PUMA case and that I'll be out of my car for at least another two weeks, as they need to replace timing chains for both cylinder banks, as well as my engine's head gaskets!

Anyone have any idea what's going on here? :|

Last edited by dbs600; 03-13-2014 at 04:20 PM.
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  #34  
Old 03-13-2014, 08:56 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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Presumably your vehicle is still under warrantee. Timing chains and head gaskets on your car!! I smell a rat in a garage..timing chains with only 30K on the clock. Sounds very very odd. Have you checked with another dealer? Did they explain why the need to replace the timing chains, of all things!!

Sorry about this. Seems more than strange. A head gasket can leak and so on but timing chains...!!!
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  #35  
Old 03-13-2014, 11:59 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastpaddler View Post
Presumably your vehicle is still under warrantee. Timing chains and head gaskets on your car!! I smell a rat in a garage..timing chains with only 30K on the clock. Sounds very very odd. Have you checked with another dealer? Did they explain why the need to replace the timing chains, of all things!!

Sorry about this. Seems more than strange. A head gasket can leak and so on but timing chains...!!!
No, I haven't checked with another dealer; not sure how to even do so at this time! :|

And no, my service advisor, the shop foreman and the director of operations (true service manager) are all away this week. I'm going in to swap my 328i loaner for a 528i tomorrow and will be sure to speak with the service manager (who I didn't even realize existed; always thought the director of operations was the service manager!?).

Otherwise, should gaskets even be needed at 30k miles!?

Last edited by dbs600; 03-14-2014 at 12:21 AM.
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  #36  
Old 03-14-2014, 06:47 AM
silberma1 silberma1 is offline
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Other than ethanol, drop in winter MPG is also related to the following:
a. Colder air into the engine requires more fuel to achieve the same combustion temperature.
b. Winter causes air pressure to drop 1 psi for every 10 degree F. You need to keep an eye on the air pressure.
c. Snow and ice do not provide as good a traction as dry pavement.
d. Many people let the car idle to warm up. This is not requires.
e. Colder air is denser and at highway speeds creates more drag on the car.
f. People tend to run the seat heaters and steering wheel heaters which causes more drain on the charging system.
g. Day light is shorter which keeps your headlight on longer.
h. At colder temperature the fluids in the car are more viscous creating more friction and engine drag
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  #37  
Old 03-14-2014, 08:55 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silberma1 View Post
Other than ethanol, drop in winter MPG is also related to the following:
a. Colder air into the engine requires more fuel to achieve the same combustion temperature.
b. Winter causes air pressure to drop 1 psi for every 10 degree F. You need to keep an eye on the air pressure.
c. Snow and ice do not provide as good a traction as dry pavement.
d. Many people let the car idle to warm up. This is not requires.
e. Colder air is denser and at highway speeds creates more drag on the car.
f. People tend to run the seat heaters and steering wheel heaters which causes more drain on the charging system.
g. Day light is shorter which keeps your headlight on longer.
h. At colder temperature the fluids in the car are more viscous creating more friction and engine drag
Thanks for the very thorough list, but this has been going on since before it got cold out...
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  #38  
Old 03-14-2014, 02:57 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Service manager states its increasingly common to see stretched timing chains on the V8's, which leads to improper timing, which leads to poor fuel economy. Very disturbing to see my engine apart with only 30k miles.

Walked by four other cars (one 7, two X5's and one X6) that supposedly have the same problem and are in line ahead of my car waiting for repairs; there were another 2 'blown' engines on the ground in another area; so many engines out!?

Didn't get a straight answer why my injectors and plugs were replaced two weeks ago if this is the true culprit... :|
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Last edited by dbs600; 03-14-2014 at 04:39 PM.
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  #39  
Old 03-14-2014, 05:59 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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If one fuel injector is wonky causing rough running BMW poilicy is to replace ALL 8 injectors as they are manufactured in large numbers and you need a full set metering the same--thus replacing all of them. Yes, cam chains can stretch--never seen it on a dual chain system. And of course new head gaskets are pretty much essential when you pull the head off.
2. You never replied re being under warrantee but presumably yes. In this case you get your engine repaired and with new injectors etc. which is itself a positive thing. I discussed problems with 550s many people have and my service adviser said those 550s are thrashed, typically and suffer for it. He said the 528i is the least trouble and drivers are more sedate(not sedated). 535is too are quite good according to him.
He did state that the new 4 cylinder replacing the 6 in the 528i is a good engine but will never be as silky smooth as the 6. I always understood the BMW V8s were as tough as nails...

Hope it all works out for you.
AL
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  #40  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:27 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastpaddler View Post
If one fuel injector is wonky causing rough running BMW poilicy is to replace ALL 8 injectors as they are manufactured in large numbers and you need a full set metering the same--thus replacing all of them. Yes, cam chains can stretch--never seen it on a dual chain system. And of course new head gaskets are pretty much essential when you pull the head off.
2. You never replied re being under warrantee but presumably yes. In this case you get your engine repaired and with new injectors etc. which is itself a positive thing. I discussed problems with 550s many people have and my service adviser said those 550s are thrashed, typically and suffer for it. He said the 528i is the least trouble and drivers are more sedate(not sedated). 535is too are quite good according to him.
He did state that the new 4 cylinder replacing the 6 in the 528i is a good engine but will never be as silky smooth as the 6. I always understood the BMW V8s were as tough as nails...
Yes, under warranty, and thanks for all the info, insight and best wishes.
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  #41  
Old 03-20-2014, 03:03 AM
2technical4me 2technical4me is offline
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Hello, yes your experience sounds like mine, though I didn't have the extremely poor gas mileage (just regularly poor, lol). Update on my 550xi - after 45 days in the shop they finally replaced both timing chains. Took it out for a test drive and multiple problems still occurred. I'm out of country so communications from them have been poor, but I've opened a case with BMW NA for buy back or replacement. Under Washington State lemon law, if a vehicle has been in the service department for more than 30 days and is still under warranty, it is legally a "lemon". Tomorrow it will be 60 days for my vehicle. I'm curious to see what the total problems are, but if they do replace it I may never know. Good luck with yours! It's nice to know I'm not alone.
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  #42  
Old 03-20-2014, 06:50 AM
grover432 grover432 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silberma1 View Post
Other than ethanol, drop in winter MPG is also related to the following:
a. Colder air into the engine requires more fuel to achieve the same combustion temperature.
You mean requires more fuel to mix with the denser air to attain the correct fuel to air ratio to allow combustion (not temperature) don't you?
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  #43  
Old 03-20-2014, 09:07 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2technical4me View Post
Hello, yes your experience sounds like mine, though I didn't have the extremely poor gas mileage (just regularly poor, lol). Update on my 550xi - after 45 days in the shop they finally replaced both timing chains. Took it out for a test drive and multiple problems still occurred. I'm out of country so communications from them have been poor, but I've opened a case with BMW NA for buy back or replacement. Under Washington State lemon law, if a vehicle has been in the service department for more than 30 days and is still under warranty, it is legally a "lemon". Tomorrow it will be 60 days for my vehicle. I'm curious to see what the total problems are, but if they do replace it I may never know. Good luck with yours! It's nice to know I'm not alone.
Terrible news.

What problem did you originally bring your car in for, and how many miles were on your car at the time?

What other problems occurred after the timing chain was replaced!?

Did they not test drive the vehicle before returning it to you!?

Thank you for sharing.

Last edited by dbs600; 03-20-2014 at 01:42 PM.
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  #44  
Old 03-20-2014, 01:26 PM
silberma1 silberma1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grover432 View Post
You mean requires more fuel to mix with the denser air to attain the correct fuel to air ratio to allow combustion (not temperature) don't you?
Yes, cold air requires more fuel to mix with the denser air to attain the correct fuel to air ratio. However, if less fuel is admitted with cold air combustion temperature will be lower and the engine will be less efficient. So we are basically saying the same thing in different ways.
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  #45  
Old 03-30-2014, 12:31 PM
2technical4me 2technical4me is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbs600 View Post
Terrible news.

What problem did you originally bring your car in for, and how many miles were on your car at the time?

What other problems occurred after the timing chain was replaced!?

Did they not test drive the vehicle before returning it to you!?

Thank you for sharing.
Hi DBS, here's the latest on my "timing chain" saga. Yes, they test drove it - it was their test drive after the chain replacements that revealed further problems. Since then, they have replaced the ENTIRE engine. Today's news is that since they feel they've replaced essentially all the possible problems, they will not do a buy back or replacement. They've extended my warranty to 50,000 miles. My husband is at this time looking at his legal resources for options, as we do not feel like putting out an additional $40,000 for a new model (which is what the dealer offered us today).

How is your car coming along? I feel, all things considered, like I've had an expensive lesson in brand loyalty. I'm fortunate in that my husband will purchase me whatever car I wish to have, but for me, the integrity and customer service of the dealer and manufacturer mean equally as much as the product itself.
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  #46  
Old 03-30-2014, 03:40 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2technical4me View Post
Hi DBS, here's the latest on my "timing chain" saga. Yes, they test drove it - it was their test drive after the chain replacements that revealed further problems. Since then, they have replaced the ENTIRE engine. Today's news is that since they feel they've replaced essentially all the possible problems, they will not do a buy back or replacement. They've extended my warranty to 50,000 miles. My husband is at this time looking at his legal resources for options, as we do not feel like putting out an additional $40,000 for a new model (which is what the dealer offered us today).

How is your car coming along? I feel, all things considered, like I've had an expensive lesson in brand loyalty. I'm fortunate in that my husband will purchase me whatever car I wish to have, but for me, the integrity and customer service of the dealer and manufacturer mean equally as much as the product itself.
Thanks for the update, but that's just... Insane! Please continue to keep us posted!

This past Thursday marked three weeks in the shop for me, at the end of the day of which I jointly e-mailed the Service Manager, Assistant Service Manager, Shop Foreman and my Service Advisor requesting an update, but have not heard back. :|
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  #47  
Old 03-31-2014, 03:06 PM
2technical4me 2technical4me is offline
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DBS, and all future BMW owners with the infamous Drivetrain light - KEEP photo proof of your warning lights.

I erroneously thought that each time the warning lights came on that the service center would have record of it. They read the key fob, plus I send in the service request via the car, so I thought "someone is keeping track of all this". WRONG. When BMW NA offered their "buyback" at a very low price, they did so because my car entered the service center a few months after the 24 month period allowed by the Washington State Lemon law statutes.

Even though I had been bringing my car in with complaints about the drivetrain service light and the poor performance for a full 6 months prior to the 24 month deadline, the key scan DID NOT SHOW any problems and my car was deemed "fine" by the service advisor. He NEVER entered a service report, as service was not done. His advice to me each time was that the drivetrain light was a simple engine warning signal, and his scan of my fob did not show any service issues, so I was free to go. Thus this problem was never officially entered into the service record until after ownership for more than 24 months, thus negating the time period covered by my state's lemon law. I did start taking photos of the warning lights about a year ago, so hope that if we pursue this case the photos may be useful to prove my point.

It was not until they blamed the drivetrain light and my low battery on my "poor driving habits" that I had a long, heated conversation with my service advisor and insisted on further testing. They then discovered the timing chain issues, followed by the engine issues (specifics still undisclosed to us). Of interest, when I went in to pick up the car I overheard one of the service assistants say to the other, "oh, you want the 550 that had the blown engine?" as he went to get my vehicle.

I have my car back, as I had no choice since they would not give me a loaner vehicle now that my car is "working". I was never given a full service report, nor did I sign off on any service paperwork of any kind. I suppose I will just have to purchase a carfax on the car to see what exactly happened, since I'm still pretty much in the dark. Good luck, DBS, and may I ask, does your name have anything to do with DB9, which is my husband's date night car?

Last edited by 2technical4me; 03-31-2014 at 03:11 PM.
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  #48  
Old 03-31-2014, 05:19 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2technical4me View Post
Good luck, DBS, and may I ask, does your name have anything to do with DB9, which is my husband's date night car?
Thanks for the heads up and best wishes, 2technical4me.

Otherwise, while a recent favorite is the Aston Martin DBS, my name stands for my all-time favorite: Daimler-Benz S600; 6.0L V12's!

Last edited by dbs600; 03-31-2014 at 05:20 PM.
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