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BMW i3 / i8 / ActiveE
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  #1  
Old 12-11-2013, 09:58 PM
Bernie@Bimmerfest Bernie@Bimmerfest is offline
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Tesla Chief Designer calls BMW i3 IKEA furniture

i3bleh

Chief Designer from Tesla Motors, Franz von Holzhausen recently expressed his feelings for BMW's i3, in an interview with the German Magazine Autobild. Translated to English, it read like he really disliked it.

In the interview von Holzhausen likened the i3's design to that of an IKEA piece of furniture. Which doesn't seem too bad, you know, until a few years down the road. He also went on to express how he's 'not sure the i3 meets the basic standards of the brand,' and that it's the 'myth of the "ultimate driving machine."' von Holzhausen seemed to like the interior though, calling it modern and clean. However, he felt the exterior look was needlessly funky, strange. The electric drive train is unique enough.

At some point BMW will have to build something to compete with the Tesla. We'll see what comes of the i5, be it a larger i3, or maybe, still hoping for a sedan. Hopefully something a bit more aesthetically pleasing.

Read the full interview here.
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2013, 10:50 PM
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TheyCallMeNun TheyCallMeNun is offline
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Tesla Chief Designer calls BMW i3 IKEA furniture

I couldn't agree more, what an ugly machine the i3 is. Tesla did a great job making an electric car that looks like a modern car, not some futuristic render.. I think BMW tried too hard


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  #3  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:10 PM
Bernie@Bimmerfest Bernie@Bimmerfest is offline
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Agree. They needed to think outside the box(y) utility vehicle and add some flow to it.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:03 AM
ddk632 ddk632 is offline
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If BMW stretches the i8 into a 4 door sedan ( i8 Gran Coupe? ) it will put any product from Tesla to shame in the looks department. Clearly, BMW know how to make a gorgeous car, whereas Tesla makes the ungodly love child of a Hyundai and a Kia which got electrocuted on its way down the ugly car tree.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:08 AM
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skier skier is offline
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Tesla and i3 are apples and oranges, why is Tesla so defensive every time other electric car gets positive reviews? Their PR is so over the top, the way they calculate 'True Cost of Ownership' is funny ridiculous. Every time a Tesla goes as up in flames, they get the owner written testimony how and sing the Tesla song.

Personally, I like the i3, perfect car for urban environments.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:30 AM
BestCS BestCS is offline
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Yeah the i3 is really ugly. BMW has a habit of making ugly cars for example the Z3 & Z4!

However, the Tesla is an over priced fire trap. As for styling it is on a par with a Hyundai Sonata.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:34 AM
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TheyCallMeNun TheyCallMeNun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skier View Post
Tesla and i3 are apples and oranges, why is Tesla so defensive every time other electric car gets positive reviews? Their PR is so over the top, the way they calculate 'True Cost of Ownership' is funny ridiculous. Every time a Tesla goes as up in flames, they get the owner written testimony how and sing the Tesla song.

Personally, I like the i3, perfect car for urban environments.
Apples and oranges? I don't know about all of that... Seems more like the apple of Eden vs a smushed orange. What Urban environment are you talking about exactly... My closest urban environment is Philadelphia or Camden NJ... the i3 couldnt handle either one of these, not that the tesla would be far and away better... The tesla is much more appealing inside and out, I'd think you'd have to be a fool to think the i3 looks better and preforms better and has a better interior. I guess to each his own.

Also Elon musk has a point. The US averages 152,300 car fires a year Tesla is 4 of them on its 6th year of producing cars and its front page news.. that would piss me off too.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BestCS View Post
Yeah the i3 is really ugly. BMW has a habit of making ugly cars for example the Z3 & Z4!

However, the Tesla is an over priced fire trap. As for styling it is on a par with a Hyundai Sonata.
I have to disagree the Z3 may be ugly now but in its hay-day she was a beaut. I think the Z4 is very attractive especially pre-facelift.
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  #9  
Old 12-13-2013, 11:08 AM
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Z4 is definitely not ugly. Neither is the Z3. The M Coupe, based on the original Z3, is still one of the most badass cars ever made!

The i3 isn't meant to be beautiful. It's meant to be functional. Cities in the US are far more spread out, but I can see the i3 working very well in New York, Chicago, San Francisco, and localized areas such as Santa Monica and Miami Beach.

The i8 is beautiful, as it's meant to be. And has a great interior. A sedan based on the i8 with larger batteries for 250+ miles of electric range would eat Teslas all day for breakfast. I can't stand the looks of the Tesla and except the giant iPad in the center console, I haven't been that impressed with the interior either.

To each their own.

I still don't understand why i3 and Model S are compared together, they are different cars for different purposes, in a completely different class of car from each other.

Last edited by ddk632; 12-13-2013 at 11:09 AM.
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  #10  
Old 12-13-2013, 01:06 PM
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I cant see any of these miniature euro re-purposed cars as functional in america. This car doesn't look like it could survive the potholes of the east coast nor the heavy congested traffic of the west coast. Everything is compared to the tesla because it is now the benchmark for electric cars.
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  #11  
Old 12-13-2013, 02:17 PM
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I suspect that the i3 is not designed for traditional BMW enthusiasts but for a new emerging group of younger urban opinion leaders who eschew all things automotive especially performance cars. The i3 hits the bull's eye of this Brave New World market by making manifest the Ultimate Un-Driving Machine.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:03 PM
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I don't know guys about what it looks like it can handle or not but it was a blast driving the thing around in Los Angeles during the LA auto show. It fit right in. I think these are subjective opinions.

Tesla might be the benchmark for electric cars doesn't mean every electric car should be compared to it. What's the benchmark for gasoline powered cars? Should every other ICE car be compared to it, whatever it may be?

That was my point - just because of the use of an electric drivetrain, all of these electric cars get lumped together; the same does not occur with traditional vehicles because we recognize their various purposes.

One would never compare a Ferrari 458 to an X5, for example. They both use gas engines but beyond that and having 4 wheels, have absolutely nothing in common in any way, shape, or form. Neither do the i3 and the Tesla.

The Model S performance and range cannot be questioned. It is the benchmark and it's eating into luxury sedan sales. But it is not a competitor to either the i3 or the i8.

I felt similarly to you guys about the i3 since it was introduced, but it's grown on me with more info on BMW i and after having driven one. I'm not at all in the market for one but I respect what BMW has done.
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  #13  
Old 12-13-2013, 05:06 PM
pkim1079 pkim1079 is offline
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this i3 is supposed to be just a ppl mover in the city...yes the looks are pretty futuristic and funky but if tesla calls this ikea, what would they call the i8? because the i8 will crush the tesla....the teslas aren't even all that "performance" car if you really look at the facts and not just their marketing terms on why its a performance car..."lower cg", "instant torque" blah blah....it sure couldn't hang with me at the track even with an instructor driving LOL
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:18 PM
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^ Agreed.
Whats more interesting is the fact that the i8 is all new from the ground up as total electric car sprouting new materials and all new tech, whereas that Audi e-Tron is basically a remanufactured R8. As is the SLS Merc and SLS Merc AMG electric drive.
If I'm purchasing an all new EV I want it to be exclusive, not the gas-guzzling lookalike that pulls up next to me.
I do think BMW is on a great path with this i line of EV's.
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:46 PM
pkim1079 pkim1079 is offline
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yeah that i8 is some technology....but I wouldn't mind an SLS AMG electric drive....it actually has a lot of technology behind it as well (cf driveshaft, different suspension, etc all to counterbalance the batteries). Aren't teslas catching fire these days literally?

And I think the article was based on the design.....the Tesla looks like a Jaguar Xx tahts been out for quite some time now.

I remember going to the tesla store in century city mall (in socal) and the guy kept talking about the performance of the car and yadda yadda ... there is no way the tesla even comes close to the performance of an m5 or m6 (which he kept saying) LOL.
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  #16  
Old 12-13-2013, 07:51 PM
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Tesla Chief Designer calls BMW i3 IKEA furniture

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddk632 View Post
If BMW stretches the i8 into a 4 door sedan ( i8 Gran Coupe? ) it will put any product from Tesla to shame in the looks department. Clearly, BMW know how to make a gorgeous car, whereas Tesla makes the ungodly love child of a Hyundai and a Kia which got electrocuted on its way down the ugly car tree.
It'll also put their prices to shame. The i8 is like 130-140 now. The GC would be nearing 180K...no, thank you.


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Old 12-13-2013, 10:31 PM
ddk632 ddk632 is offline
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It'll also put their prices to shame. The i8 is like 130-140 now. The GC would be nearing 180K...no, thank you.


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Not sure about what an i8 GC will price out as since it's a hypothetical example, but at 137k (the car comes fully loaded as standard, there are no options!) the i8 is a bargain. It looks like a car that should cost twice as much. However, it doesn't have the performance (on paper) to match a $300k price tag. Though, it isn't marketed as a supercar - a fact that seems to elude many observers.

Either way, the price for the i8 considering its a brand new vehicle, which will be limited a la Z8, is very reasonable. A 760Li base costs more, and an Alpina B7 is close behind. Neither of which, as awesome as they both are, holds a candle to the presence of an i8.

I have a deposit down for an i8 and frankly could care less about its 0-60 times. It's the whole car that I am infatuated with.

I would not pay $70k for a Tesla, but would happily pay twice that much for an i8. Again to each their own.

Last edited by ddk632; 12-13-2013 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:33 PM
ddk632 ddk632 is offline
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Originally Posted by boramkiv View Post
^ Agreed.
Whats more interesting is the fact that the i8 is all new from the ground up as total electric car sprouting new materials and all new tech, whereas that Audi e-Tron is basically a remanufactured R8. As is the SLS Merc and SLS Merc AMG electric drive.
If I'm purchasing an all new EV I want it to be exclusive, not the gas-guzzling lookalike that pulls up next to me.
I do think BMW is on a great path with this i line of EV's.
The i8 is a plug-in hybrid, not a full electric car. But you're correct on the ground-up philosophy.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:37 PM
ddk632 ddk632 is offline
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Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
yeah that i8 is some technology....but I wouldn't mind an SLS AMG electric drive....it actually has a lot of technology behind it as well (cf driveshaft, different suspension, etc all to counterbalance the batteries). Aren't teslas catching fire these days literally?

And I think the article was based on the design.....the Tesla looks like a Jaguar Xx tahts been out for quite some time now.

I remember going to the tesla store in century city mall (in socal) and the guy kept talking about the performance of the car and yadda yadda ... there is no way the tesla even comes close to the performance of an m5 or m6 (which he kept saying) LOL.
Actually there have been reports on other forums and possibly some YouTube vids indicating the Model S with the big battery pack does have the 0-60 time to match an M5 and possibly beat it. I haven't heard anything about its handling though. 0-60 times aren't the all-encompassing indicator of performance. That being said, there's no doubt the Model S is a fast, capable machine. I might not like the way it looks, but I won't discount what they've done with that car.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:40 PM
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Apples and oranges? I don't know about all of that...
You don't know that i3 is a 3er level car, while Tesla S competes with 7er?
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:45 PM
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Also Elon musk has a point. The US averages 152,300 car fires a year Tesla is 4 of them on its 6th year of producing cars and its front page news.. that would piss me off too.
Tesla S has been on the market for less then two years. Your are confusing it with Tesla Roadster, which in reality a Lotus Elise is disguise.

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Old 12-14-2013, 05:06 PM
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Apples and oranges? I don't know about all of that... Seems more like the apple of Eden vs a smushed orange. What Urban environment are you talking about exactly... My closest urban environment is Philadelphia or Camden NJ... the i3 couldnt handle either one of these, not that the tesla would be far and away better...
Both Tesla and i3 are perfect cars for NYC. That's of course if you even need or want a car here. There are plenty of Teslas in Manhattan.

These are cars for a big metropolis (or otherwise second cars) not for places like Camden or Philly. Think NYC, Tokyo etc...

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Old 12-15-2013, 07:32 AM
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The Tesla has fine, but not innovative, exterior with a very pedestrian, ordinary interior. The exterior is not the least innovative. It is just rehash of BMW design ideas with a whiff of Austin Martin on the grill that is not necessary that was put there just for aesthetics to recall a combustion engine car. I like the innovative i# aesthetic a lot outside of the kidney grills that re ornamental.
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
this i3 is supposed to be just a ppl mover in the city...yes the looks are pretty futuristic and funky but if tesla calls this ikea, what would they call the i8? because the i8 will crush the tesla....the teslas aren't even all that "performance" car if you really look at the facts and not just their marketing terms on why its a performance car..."lower cg", "instant torque" blah blah....it sure couldn't hang with me at the track even with an instructor driving LOL
I don't know if you've ever driven a Tesla Model S but the performance is astonishing. I love the design of the i8, but I'm far from certain it will outperform a Model S. The Model S has an unbelievable ability to accelerate - until the speeds get crazy, it can keep up with an M5. I'd certainly not be putting any money on the i8 in performance tests against the Model S.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:01 PM
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I drove the Tesla. Very fast in a straight line. Scary in corners where the immense weight makes it no fun at all. No thanks.
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