Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 F25 (2011 - current)

X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-17-2014, 08:47 AM
Anfänger Anfänger is offline
_________________
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 69
Mein Auto: 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoXS View Post
I hope these posts are not belaboring an issue but I do not like seeing people told by a dealer an electrical system problem is due to a bad driving profile when there is actually a problem. It also bothers me that a lot of people are spending a lot of unnecessary energy trying to manage battery charging when this function works as well as it does on any other vehicle (when nothing is broken) without any intervention by the driver.
I, for one, appreciate your contributions to the discussion. Although I have not yet found the need to invest in a battery tender, and have not been stranded with a dead battery, I know what a huge pain a failing electrical system can be. I would definitely like to be proactive in looking for early warning signs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoXS View Post
When monitoring the voltage I suggest observing the system response when turning on a large load such as the rear window defogger.
This comment reminded me of your separate threads about the enforced timeout of the rear defogger. Given that it is the X3's single largest electrical load (drawing something like 25A), I am curious whether you see any evidence that the system is unable to meet that demand on a continuous basis? i.e., might the defogger's 10-min time limit be a necessary protection for the electrical system?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 01-17-2014, 09:15 AM
RhoXS RhoXS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 426
Mein Auto: Z3 & X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
This comment reminded me of your separate threads about the enforced timeout of the rear defogger. Given that it is the X3's single largest electrical load (drawing something like 25A), I am curious whether you see any evidence that the system is unable to meet that demand on a continuous basis? i.e., might the defogger's 10-min time limit be a necessary protection for the electrical system?
I have seen zero evidence the electrical system cannot easily handle anything asked of it.

At one time in my life I swore to anyone who wanted to listen I would never move north of Palm Beach, Florida. Well, for a little over a year now, due to a consulting job I could not refuse, I find myself living in Oswego, NY which is deservedly well known for lake effect snow and cold temperatures. My daily trip each way from my apartment to my office is a short 7.5 miles and I do very little other driving.

At about 0530, when I start the car to go to work, I immediately turn on the rear defogger, set the driver's seat heater on high, and turn on the steering wheel heater. If I need to clear ice or condensation on the windshield (about 50% of the time) the fan runs on high speed when I push the front windshield defogger button. Of course, the headlights are on too. This all accounts for a lot of electrical load.

The voltage holds rock solid at 14.5 volts or so even while I am letting the car idle for a few minutes to warm up a little. This tells me the alternator, even at idle, is keeping up with the load (and that assumes the cigarette lighter voltage exactly matches the battery terminal voltage). When I get to the plant and shut down the car the voltage initially stabilizes after a very short time at about 12.8 volts. It certainly very slowly continues to decrease but that gives me indication the battery is at a high state of charge and is healthy.

On near zero degree mornings I can easily hear that the engine does not comes to life with the ease that it usually does, but this is not a problem with a discharged battery; it is the result of the nature of a lead acid battery. Lead acid batteries just don't release energy easily when very cold, even when fully charged. This does not mean I perceive the engine struggling to start, it just is perceptably slower to start.

Bottom line, with my really load heavy piss poor driving profile (as some BMW dealers might call it) I have had zero problems. Last winter I had my Lexus RX350 here and, again, with almost identical habits, I never had a single problem (I never had a reason to monitor voltages but the car always started, etc.). It also seemed a little stiff when starting on near zero mornings.

So, to answer your question, I have not seen the slightest indication that the X3's electrical system is not robust, well designed (if not irresponsibly over engineered IMO), and able to seemingly easily handle anything I have asked of it, even with only a 7.5 mile trip each way to work and back.

Last edited by RhoXS; 01-19-2014 at 05:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-18-2014, 01:00 AM
newyankee newyankee is offline
Registered User
Location: Palo Alto, Ca.
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 27
Mein Auto: BMW X3 35i M Sport
I also appreciate RhoXS's contribution to this topic.

I'm in a mild climate with no problems, but I am curious. I have a plug in voltmeter in the front cigarette lighter port, and have started testing with a clamp on Hall effect amp meter to measure battery current in the negative lead. I'll publish more detailed results later as I monitor charge/ discharge rates. Example: seems like the discharge rate reduces to .4A after the engine is turned off, and systems begin shutting down.

My only mystery so far is the typical operating voltage. It ran at 14.8V or so when I first installed the voltmeter. Seemed consistent for weeks, then moved to 13.6 (except going higher during "coasting") for about a week, and now it is back to 14.8V. Only problem is I can't correlate any operational differences to explain it.

I'm mainly just interested in getting baseline voltage and current data for future reference if a problem ever arises.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 01-18-2014, 06:49 AM
RhoXS RhoXS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 426
Mein Auto: Z3 & X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by newyankee View Post
I also appreciate RhoXS's contribution to this topic.

I'm in a mild climate with no problems, but I am curious. I have a plug in voltmeter in the front cigarette lighter port, and have started testing with a clamp on Hall effect amp meter to measure battery current in the negative lead. I'll publish more detailed results later as I monitor charge/ discharge rates. Example: seems like the discharge rate reduces to .4A after the engine is turned off, and systems begin shutting down.

My only mystery so far is the typical operating voltage. It ran at 14.8V or so when I first installed the voltmeter. Seemed consistent for weeks, then moved to 13.6 (except going higher during "coasting") for about a week, and now it is back to 14.8V. Only problem is I can't correlate any operational differences to explain it.

I'm mainly just interested in getting baseline voltage and current data for future reference if a problem ever arises.
At least for selfish interests I am glad you are taking those readings. Not only is the net battery current an interesting parameter, I still have it in the back of my mind that the cigarette lighter voltage may not always exactly match the battery terminal voltage because of a DC-DC voltage regulator that maintains the vehicle electrical system at a mostly constant voltage. I don't think this is the case because my brief test indicated it is not, but, also, the fact that I have seen voltage variations at the console cigarette lighter output I think also confirms this is also what the battery is seeing.

What temperatures are you seeing that you define as a mild? Based on observations (seat of pants type of observations) and the voltage vs temperature relationship graphically presented in the document Coder referenced in an earlier post, I perceive the transition from a 13.5 volt or so system voltage to a 14.5 volt or so value occurs in the 40 F something range. I also perceive the battery well (where the temperature sensor is) under the rear deck, does not warm up to cabin temperatures so it remains cold when the cabin might be toasty.

Thanks for your contribution. It is appreciated.

Last edited by RhoXS; 01-19-2014 at 05:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:11 AM
newyankee newyankee is offline
Registered User
Location: Palo Alto, Ca.
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 27
Mein Auto: BMW X3 35i M Sport
Ah ha, RhoXS, I think the temperature factor was it. We did have a cold spell about the same time as the 13.6 reading, but now back to 60's in the San Francisco area. Should have remembered the earlier post.

Thankfully, my area won't support real cold weather testing, but I'm going to set up the amp meter and one or two voltmeters. To capture the data, I'm going to set up a video recorder for long term analysis. The first test was cut short because the Fluke meters turned themselves off after 20 min... had to go back and read the manual.

I too am curious about the cigarette lighter voltage vs the battery voltage, but there are four positive leads... any idea which one to monitor? Yep, I don't just assume they all represent the classic positive terminal.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 01-18-2014, 01:42 PM
RhoXS RhoXS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 426
Mein Auto: Z3 & X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by newyankee View Post
Ah ha, RhoXS, I think the temperature factor was it. We did have a cold spell about the same time as the 13.6 reading, but now back to 60's in the San Francisco area. Should have remembered the earlier post.

Thankfully, my area won't support real cold weather testing, but I'm going to set up the amp meter and one or two voltmeters. To capture the data, I'm going to set up a video recorder for long term analysis. The first test was cut short because the Fluke meters turned themselves off after 20 min... had to go back and read the manual.

I too am curious about the cigarette lighter voltage vs the battery voltage, but there are four positive leads... any idea which one to monitor? Yep, I don't just assume they all represent the classic positive terminal.

I am not sure what you meant when you said "We did have a cold spell about the same time as the 13.6 reading" but voltage is supposed to increase with low temperatures.

I use a Fluke 87 V and that auto off feature is certainly necessary but it is a pain sometimes. I think it can be overridden but I don't remember how. I have seen cases when these (and similar meters) were set up to record peak voltages when starting large machinery and the data was lost when the start was delayed and the meter had shut itself off.

When I monitored the voltage directly at my battery, if I remember correctly, the negative terminal was just sufficiently visible to easily put the point of a probes on it. The positive terminal had a little door on the top of the red plastic assembly that opened and exposed the bare terminal, again just enough to put the point of a probe on it. I strongly suggest measuring the voltage right on the lead battery terminals and then you know exactly what the all important battery terminal voltage is.

Last edited by RhoXS; 01-18-2014 at 02:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 01-19-2014, 06:04 PM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
I cannot disagree with RhoXS...true, after thinking about what I was told and what I have read I can hardly believe it is possible to have 14+ volts on the lighter socket when the engine is running without alternator being engaged. Also, it is possible that the battery charging logic (i.e how much current is sent to the battery at any given moment of time) has nothing to do with the alternator producing the electricity. At the end, $50 charger is smart enough to manipulate the amperage to properly charge the battery, why can't the electrical system in $60K+ car do the same?

BTW, I have got myself a CTEK MUS 4.3 charger at the end. I was a good deal and I have heard too much good feedback about it. I did a test this weekend, allowed the BMW "advanced charger" to go to "green" more and then replaced it with CTEK one. I was not surprised to see that CTEK quickly jumped to mode 3 (bulk charging), stayed in this mode for about 2 hours, then went to mode 4 (absorption, when it is supposed to charge the battery to the maximum while reducing the current) and spent another ~2-2,5 hours in that mode. It was mildly cold outside. I suspect that BMW tender does not really do good job in cold climate plus it uses only 1,25A and CTEK one uses up to 4,3A.

For our place I see -22C for the coming week so we'll give it another test while waiting for the magical fix from BMW
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 01-19-2014, 07:07 PM
RhoXS RhoXS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 426
Mein Auto: Z3 & X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
... I can hardly believe it is possible to have 14+ volts on the lighter socket when the engine is running without alternator being engaged. Also, it is possible that the battery charging logic (i.e how much current is sent to the battery at any given moment of time) has nothing to do with the alternator producing the electricity. At the end, $50 charger is smart enough to manipulate the amperage to properly charge the battery, why can't the electrical system in $60K+ car do the same?
Its a lot simpler than that.

First, contrary to a common misconception, without seeing any documentation, I am 100% certain the alternator is always mechanically "engaged". There is no mechanical clutch etc. that engages or disengages the alternator. The charging system executes its decisions by electronically controlling the alternator output voltage, probably by simply controlling the field voltage.

Second, when the system decides it needs to charge the battery, it simply adjusts alternator output voltage to whatever voltage corresponds to the state of charge that is desired. During normal driving in mild temperatures that is around 13.5 volts. When coasting or braking that is about 14.6 volts or so.

I am reasonably certain that 13.5 volts or so will correspond to about an 80% state of charge for a lead acid battery. 80% is also where BMW says the battery is maintained so there is room to put coasting and braking energy without overcharging the battery. BMW also states they provide an oversized battery so the amount of energy available at 80% is equivalent to 100% of the energy available from a smaller battery as would be used if they did use this funky ass system to recover breaking and coasting energy. 14.6 volts or so is the charging voltage to 100% charge the battery. How charging voltage corresponds to the state of charge is a function of battery chemistry, not battery size. However, a bigger battery will charge at a higher charging current than a smaller battery.

Standard automotive lead acid batteries do not like sitting at anything less than a 100% charge. Typically a car battery is intended to do nothing more than start the car and then be immediately recharged to a 100% state. Maintaining a standard automotive battery at less than 100%, even a little less than 100%, will cause it to gradually lose capacity and fail (look up "sulfation" if you want to know why). That is why BMW uses so called AGP batteries in our X3s as they have so called deep cycle qualities and can better tolerate remaining at less than a 100% state of charge.

As long as the alternator is keeping the voltage at the battery terminals where desired, there will be sufficient current to provide for both the vehicle electrical load and what goes into the battery. If the alternator was not providing for 100% of the electrical load, the difference would have to come from the battery and that means the terminal voltage would drop below 12.6 volts because energy would be flowing out of the battery. The alternator does not "send current to the battery" per se, it is controlled to establish a voltage at the battery terminals and then, for a given voltage, the current is determined by the battery based on the state of charge.

Think about this way. Voltage is analogous to pressure. Current is analogous to water flow in a plumbing system. The greater the pressure, the greater the flow. Voltage is what drives current flow like pump pressure pushes water flow. To charge a battery, the alternator has to maintain a sufficiently high pressure to overcome the battery's natural internal pressure (12.6 volts). The greater the alternator's pressure is above the battery's internal pressure, the more flow will go into the battery. If the alternators internal pressure drops below the battery's internal pressure, then flow will be out of the battery.

You stated "why can't the electrical system in $60K+ car do the same?". It has been my observation, certainly open for debate, that the system does indeed do an excellent job as long as nothing is broken. My observations are only based on a single vehicle (my X3) but everything I have seen indicates the system works very well, even if it is ridiculously over engineered.

Last edited by RhoXS; 01-20-2014 at 02:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 01-22-2014, 06:11 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Now I can confirm 101% all these troubles were not caused by the battery. It was -22C last night. I have left the charger overnight and in the morning it was all shining green. Measured the voltage on the battery in sleep mode - 12.59V (-22C, so this number is quite good according to the table from batteryfaq.org). My wife went to the school and could not start the car again when she came back 5 minutes later. This time the car displayed "Drivetrain malfunction..." error and did not start. The starter did not even turn. BMW Roadside assistance - same sh@t again, no answer. Called the manager from BMW, he told me that it sounds exactly like the problem they have found with the power distribution box. He told me to ask my wife to keep trying to start the car once in 5 minutes and it would start eventually, so it did about 30 minutes later. Now she is at the dealership but they still do not have that part that was backordered
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 01-23-2014, 08:03 AM
biterror biterror is offline
Registered User
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: 530dAx
I find this an interesting thread. Last weekend, after starting my car in -22 C (-7.6 F) and driving for over an hour, I got "Charge battery" message after engine shutdown. The interior lights didn't work and the car was saving electricity hear and there. I charged the battery with an intelligent charger for over two days and haven't seen the message again (so far).

Before the message showed up, I had been driving longish trips (1-2-3 hours per engine start), so I was quite surprised when the car asked for charging. I started googling and found several similar cases both in Finland and in other countries. As far as I know, the problems start when the temperature drops to -20 C (-4 F) or so. Today, I have been reading the power management document (I find it interesting).

I have also started monitoring the system voltage while driving (you can enable a voltage display in the instrument cluster, but I haven't verified the accuracy of the readings yet). Yesterday, I started off from a warm garage, and the system voltage was 13.6 V in the beginning (14.6 V when coasting), but it slowly climbed to 14.6 - 14.7 V (as the battery temperature dropped?). During that trip, the charging appeared to work perfectly, as far as I can tell. The trip was a short one, so I think the battery didn't get too cold. Maybe the charging problems start when the battery temperature drops to -20 C or so.

The car will be checked by the local BMW dealer tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure they won't be able to find anything wrong with it and will blame my "driving profile" for the problem. (I never ever had problems with batteries in any of my previous cars, so I'm not going to buy that explanation.)

There seems to be lots of disinformation about cars, batteries, and cold weather. If your car has a good alternator, it will supply the current required by heaters, lights etc. and NOT discharge the battery when driving at all. If the battery still is discharged, there must be something wrong - a bad battery, failing alternator - or a design flaw in the intelligent power management system.

I will try to keep monitoring the system voltage, especially when it is below -20 C and see if the voltage drops in some circumstances. I am pretty sure that the problems (well, at least THIS problem) will not show up when it isn't "cold enough". At least all the posts I have read mention -20 C as the temperature where the problems start.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 01-23-2014, 08:43 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
I am very disappointed with this car and I give up. I will be contacting BMW and demanding that they buy back this piece of **** they call a car by mistake. Seriously, I am not supposed to waste so much time maintaining this car. Especially after discovering (in my case) that all these stories told by the dealer about the battery was complete BS - that was finally proven yesterday. In 5 months since buying it I just visited the dealership really too often, not only for this reason but to fix other problems. And there is still one more thing to fix in this car - the noisy sunroof. I understand that it is not all their cars that are affected by these problems (otherwise BMW would be bankrupt by now ) but the personal experience with this particular car is now so negative that I have zero confidence in it. If BMW refuses then looks like I will be looking for an attorney.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 01-23-2014, 10:41 AM
Want the Thrill Want the Thrill is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 984
Mein Auto: 2011 X3 35i
For those having issues, I've copied and pasted what another person wrote on another thread on the "other" forum about this issue.

Here it is:

I have my x3 in today getting the PDM replaced for the 2nd time. The dealer told me that BMW is working on a permanent fix and that they will contact me when available.

It's definitely cold weather related. The 1st occurrence was before Christmas when the temps went down to sub -30C. It happened again on the weekend with temp at -37C.

The problems occur after the vehicle has warmed up then been allowed to sit for a bit in the extreme cold. The 1st time it occurred I was unable to start the car. I called for a tow and was told that it would be a couple of hours. After about 30 minutes of waiting I thought I would give it a try and the car started but the Drivetrain Malfunction stayed. I shut off the car and tried again after 15 minutes and every was fine.

They've explained the problem as follows: the PDM has a breather on it and with the cold weather it's been allowing condensation to build inside. When the car is cold the condensation is frozen and has no impact on the system. As it warms the condensation melts and that is when you have problems. When the engine area gets cold enough for the moisture to freeze again all is fine.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 01-23-2014, 10:52 AM
RhoXS RhoXS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 426
Mein Auto: Z3 & X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the Thrill View Post
For those having issues, I've copied and pasted what another person wrote on another thread on the "other" forum about this issue.

Here it is:

I have my x3 in today getting the PDM replaced for the 2nd time. The dealer told me that BMW is working on a permanent fix and that they will contact me when available.

It's definitely cold weather related. The 1st occurrence was before Christmas when the temps went down to sub -30C. It happened again on the weekend with temp at -37C.

The problems occur after the vehicle has warmed up then been allowed to sit for a bit in the extreme cold. The 1st time it occurred I was unable to start the car. I called for a tow and was told that it would be a couple of hours. After about 30 minutes of waiting I thought I would give it a try and the car started but the Drivetrain Malfunction stayed. I shut off the car and tried again after 15 minutes and every was fine.

They've explained the problem as follows: the PDM has a breather on it and with the cold weather it's been allowing condensation to build inside. When the car is cold the condensation is frozen and has no impact on the system. As it warms the condensation melts and that is when you have problems. When the engine area gets cold enough for the moisture to freeze again all is fine.
Thanks for posting that excellent information. Although I am not having a problem I am very curious about what is going on. If anyone knows, it would be good if the following questions could be answered.

What is the PDM and where exactly is it?

Is it safe to assume the water that gets into it essentially shorts out a circuit board as I guessing this is an electronics control module (Power Distribution Module?? - Although its more likely from a German translation).

Is there a TSB on it?

Last edited by RhoXS; 01-23-2014 at 10:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 01-23-2014, 11:50 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoXS View Post

What is the PDM and where exactly is it?

Is it safe to assume the water that gets into it essentially shorts out a circuit board as I guessing this is an electronics control module (Power Distribution Module?? - Although its more likely from a German translation).

Is there a TSB on it?
From what I was told by my (former) dealer - they wanted to replace the Power Distribution Module. Which seems to me like an acronym for PDM...

They seem to be backordered everywhere so they had to order one from Germany - and even there it is not immediately available.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 01-23-2014, 12:00 PM
Z4golfer's Avatar
Z4golfer Z4golfer is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: California
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 334
Mein Auto: 2011 Z4 35is
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
From what I was told by my (former) dealer - they wanted to replace the Power Distribution Module. Which seems to me like an acronym for PDM...

They seem to be backordered everywhere so they had to order one from Germany - and even there it is not immediately available.
Why would it be backordered from Germany? The car is built in the U.S.
__________________


2011 Z4 35is
2014 X3 28i
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 01-23-2014, 12:05 PM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4golfer View Post
Why would it be backordered from Germany? The car is built in the U.S.
Just relaying what I was told by the dealer. I did not ask them - maybe there is a little city somewhere in US that is called "Germany" and BMW has a warehouse there?

I am sure that given the situation that I am about to see the help of the attorney and that BMW/dealer does not really want to pay Enterprise for the loaner car I was given I would assume they do everything they can to get that part as soon as possible. But yesterday I was told it will be 1,5-2 weeks.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 01-23-2014, 12:47 PM
ap90500 ap90500 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 437
Mein Auto: F11 530d xDrive -12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4golfer View Post
Why would it be backordered from Germany? The car is built in the U.S.
I would say it is assembled in the USA. Bmw has many subcotractors in the Europe.

Last edited by ap90500; 01-23-2014 at 12:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 01-23-2014, 12:51 PM
Gouda Gouda is offline
Registered User
Location: Wi
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: 2011 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4golfer View Post
Why would it be backordered from Germany? The car is built in the U.S.

http://kogodnow.com/images/2013-03/a...ison-chart.gif

Built as in assembled, but only 30% is sourced in the USA. See info in link.
__________________
2011 X3 35i w/Michelin Primacy MXM4's
2008 Wrangler Saraha Unlimited
2008 Tiffin Allegro Bay Freightliner/Cummins

2007 C260 4Matic - sold
2006 350Z Roadster - sold
To many others to bother with...
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 01-23-2014, 02:59 PM
BMW_FIN BMW_FIN is offline
Registered User
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4
Mein Auto: F30
I agree with RhoXS in his msg #58. Ican also tell that there is very huge resistors in cars heater. Ask your local dealer the power of resistors. For example 1250W used in scandinavia makes abt. 96Amps. So it is no wonder if there are problems with a battery. The car could not manage if battery is not fully charger or charger could not carry all load.

Ask if dealer can make parameter change "IGR=aktiv to nicht_aktiv"

There is also "flavor" in a BMW brand webasto control. Webasto don't heat if cars motor is running Webasto will heat by 5kW power and consumpts only abt. 48w electricity. If webasto works normally, you dont need high power resistors and you save battery.

[Sorry bad english]
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 01-23-2014, 03:32 PM
ap90500 ap90500 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 437
Mein Auto: F11 530d xDrive -12
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_FIN View Post
I agree with RhoXS in his msg #58. Ican also tell that there is very huge resistors in cars heater. Ask your local dealer the power of resistors. For example 1250W used in scandinavia makes abt. 96Amps. So it is no wonder if there are problems with a battery. The car could not manage if battery is not fully charger or charger could not carry all load.

Ask if dealer can make parameter change "IGR=aktiv to nicht_aktiv"

There is also "flavor" in a BMW brand webasto control. Webasto don't heat if cars motor is running Webasto will heat by 5kW power and consumpts only abt. 48w electricity. If webasto works normally, you dont need high power resistors and you save battery.

[Sorry bad english]
Actually I wrote wrong info to other forum, it is actually igr=off in engine control unit. Dealer can't do that, what they can do is to remove "brake energy regeneration" from the vehicle order and code the car. That does the same thing. Anyways I think that they are not willing to do that. It turns off intelligent battery charging so battery is charged to 100% instead of 80%. I wouldn't rush on this, I am still testing it. It is possible that the car won't lower charging voltage after the battery is full -> if I have understood correctly, this will destroy the agm-battery in the end so it is possible that a regular battery is needed. I will inform you guys after my battery has been fully charged.

Last edited by ap90500; 01-23-2014 at 03:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 01-23-2014, 10:32 PM
biterror biterror is offline
Registered User
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: 530dAx
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap90500 View Post
Actually I wrote wrong info to other forum, it is actually igr=off in engine control unit. Dealer can't do that, what they can do is to remove "brake energy regeneration" from the vehicle order and code the car. That does the same thing. Anyways I think that they are not willing to do that. It turns off intelligent battery charging so battery is charged to 100% instead of 80%.
I think in Finland you would have to pay additional car tax if you do this (emissions are increased). I asked my dealer to configure the start/stop system to remember the old status (enabled or disabled) and after several days they told me I would have to sign a paper and then pay the additional tax due to "increased emissions". I didn't want to pay any extra so I'm disabling start/stop manually every time I start the car.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 01-24-2014, 12:33 AM
BMW_FIN BMW_FIN is offline
Registered User
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4
Mein Auto: F30
Maybe taxes are not problen in US/Canada? Please ask your local dealer to disable "brake energy regeneration" from the vehicle order and code the car.

Final solution is that BMW makes software that disables automatically "brake energy regeneration" if temperature is below for eg. -10c.

Please insist that from BMW. Your consumer protection is in high level so egg on the lawyers against BMW!!! If BMW complains something of the emissions, say that Start/stop disables automatically @+3c temperature. Emission are tested in +20c temperature.

Last edited by BMW_FIN; 01-24-2014 at 05:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 01-27-2014, 07:02 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_FIN View Post
Maybe taxes are not problen in US/Canada?
LOL. Cannot say about US, but taxes is a PROBLEM in Canada

Quote:
say that Start/stop disables automatically @+3c temperature. Emission are tested in +20c temperature.
Haha. My Start/Stop was shutting the car down when it was -4C. After driving for about 800m. With cold engine. I told that to the dealer. What I heard back was the stuff like "new software" and "it measures the battery temperature, not the outside temperature". From what I have read, there is definitely a small controller in the battery contact that, among other things, reports the temperature.

But I was also uncomfortable about stopping the cold engine when it is mildly cold outside just after driving for 800m. If BMW cannot explain that, then I will have my ASS reprogrammed to remember the last setting, that will allow me to permanently disable it for a long period of time.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	start-stop-minus4c.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	149.6 KB
ID:	419149  
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 01-27-2014, 07:21 AM
BMW_FIN BMW_FIN is offline
Registered User
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4
Mein Auto: F30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
LOL. Cannot say about US, but taxes is a PROBLEM in Canada
Ok, Here in Finland we have co2 based car taxes. Taxes are in purchase price and in annual taxes. If co2 changes, taxes will change also... I dont have any idea how it is in Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
Haha. My Start/Stop was shutting the car down when it was -4C. After driving for about 800m. With cold engine. I told that to the dealer. What I heard back was the stuff like "new software" and "it measures the battery temperature, not the outside temperature". From what I have read, there is definitely a small controller in the battery contact that, among other things, reports the temperature.

But I was also uncomfortable about stopping the cold engine when it is mildly cold outside just after driving for 800m. If BMW cannot explain that, then I will have my ASS reprogrammed to remember the last setting, that will allow me to permanently disable it for a long period of time.
Anyway You have better chance with manufacturer. You have much more better consumer protection so please use it.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 01-27-2014, 07:29 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_FIN View Post
Ok, Here in Finland we have co2 based car taxes. Taxes are in purchase price and in annual taxes. If co2 changes, taxes will change also... I dont have any idea how it is in Canada.
I know Finland is quite expensive when it comes to the car ownership. In Quebec, at least, all you pay are the sales taxes (roughly 15%), then the license plate (about $300/year). That fee is slightly (about $35 or so) lower for other cars as BMW is considered "luxury" car.


Quote:
Anyway You have better chance with manufacturer. You have much more better consumer protection so please use it.
In fact, it is not that simple. In US at least you have the lemon law. There is no lemon law in Canada. There is CANVAP program, which is somewhat in that direction...but, guess what - BMW is not a member of that program. Now I know why. So, the main difference is that in U.S. there are (as far as I understand) some formal criteria that are written in the state's lemon law. I.e. if your car spends that many days at the dealership or the dealer fails to repair it after X attempts or this or that - then the law kicks in. Nothing like this in Canada. So, it is the BMW's care about their image on one side and your willingness to go to the end, pay good money to the lawyer and take the risk of the loss.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 F25 (2011 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms