Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 F25 (2011 - current)

X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 01-27-2014, 12:46 PM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Just got a call from the dealer, they claim that they have received and installed the new part. They were told that it is a redesigned "new" PDM, but I asked to confirm that. Of course I was promised that they will try their best to confirm but...
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 01-28-2014, 11:39 AM
colson79 colson79 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 187
Mein Auto: 2012 X3 35i
My 2012 X3 35i let me down for the first time yesterday. It was about -19 F yesterday morning and the X3 was in the garage which was about 30 F. X3 started right up, with no errors or warnings. I drove to work, 25 miles mostly highway and takes me about 30 minutes. Parked the X3 turned it off and got a low battery warning. Didn't think to much of it because I got this error once before. I had to run some errands for lunch so I left about 4 hours later and the X3 started up again but I got a increased battery discharge warning.

I drove about 15 minutes to the store, shut off the X3 ran inside for about 10 minutes. Came back out and the X3 wouldn't start, made a clicking noise and gave me a charge battery warning. Luckily I always carry jumper cables in the car and I was able to get a jump from someone.

I think the charging system in this car really sucks, get rid of that stupid efficiency dynamics stuff, I'll take the 1 mpg penalty.

I put it on the charger when I got home, but It was -21 F this morning so I drove my old 2006 Mazda 3 because I was afraid of getting stranded in my $50,000 BMW. Really sad.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 01-28-2014, 12:04 PM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Just got a call from BMW. They have replaced the PDM for the same one. They claim that the old part was defective. Looks like they take the protective measures to get the cars out as quickly as possible regardless of the end result. So, looking forward to another cold morning in the dead car soon.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 01-28-2014, 03:17 PM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Got the car back. Considering that I have made a few post talking about the issue recently + requested that BMW buys it back they were rushing to get it out of the shop. Funny, just last Thursday they did not even have the tracking number on the new PDM. And on Monday it was installed Miracle. I asked the straight question if they have installed the new part or the same one - the answer was "the same". They claim that the old PDM was defective.

Interesting - the service invoice mentions "PUMA 56461584". Anyone has an idea what is it?

Also, BMW customer service has refused to even discuss the buyback. I guess they take advantage of the lack of lemon laws in Canada, they have enough troubles with that in USA, I think Not even apologizing for real for the crap they have sold, just standard "I truly apologized for the frustration you have with your vehicle". Hahaha, you was stupid enough to pay us - you are screwed, we have won

Well, that how much they value their image in Canada, I suppose. Surely will tell the story to my dentist in details when I see her

My biggest concern (apart of getting rid of that lemon - that's the lawyer's job now) is that this car will die again soon enough and either me or my wife will be stuck again in an ultimate but ultimately unreliable driving machine.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	service_record_1_jan28.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	54.5 KB
ID:	419437   Click image for larger version

Name:	service_record_2_jan28.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	129.0 KB
ID:	419438  
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 01-28-2014, 07:25 PM
poker838 poker838 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 179
Mein Auto: F25 x28 n52 + n20 / B8 A4
I'm trying out the NOCO G7200 on my X3 tonight. It started from 25% and rose rapidly to 50, 75, and now it's in the 75 - 100 mark. The lack of driving (8800 kms in a year) and the cold does cause some changes in the car's behavior. Certainly not the warnings / errors that others have been getting, but I''ve seen the sluggish cranks, refusal to go into ASS, and the car not powering up the accessories immediately (or even shutting down accessories if it does manage to go into ASS).

First time trying a trickle charger so will see how it turns out tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 01-28-2014, 09:01 PM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker838 View Post
I'm trying out the NOCO G7200 on my X3 tonight.

7 amps? OMG But, if I remember correctly, I saw those toys connected to the cars in the showroom. Or similar ones, probably not the same model.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 01-29-2014, 04:13 AM
poker838 poker838 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 179
Mein Auto: F25 x28 n52 + n20 / B8 A4
Well, that's the max. It's 24v capable. Only got it because Canadian Tire had a sale.

It charged in about two hours so I guess it was not that low, but low enough to trigger conservation measures.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 01-29-2014, 05:30 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker838 View Post
Well, that's the max. It's 24v capable. Only got it because Canadian Tire had a sale.

It charged in about two hours so I guess it was not that low, but low enough to trigger conservation measures.
Two hours at 7 amps means that your battery was quite good. X3's battery is 105 amps. Surely it is not linear, but it means you was at above 80%, I guess. I was told that the car starts displaying the "battery charge" errors below 80%.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 01-29-2014, 07:58 AM
ap90500 ap90500 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 404
Mein Auto: F11 530d xDrive -12
Because of the brake energy regeneration, 80% battery charge level is the target. So basically your 105 Ah battery is working like 85 Ah battery. Battery needs some empty space to store the braking energy.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 01-29-2014, 08:17 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,792
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
Interesting - the service invoice mentions "PUMA 56461584". Anyone has an idea what is it?
PUMA is the case number you have with BMW regarding your issues.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 01-29-2014, 08:32 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap90500 View Post
Because of the brake energy regeneration, 80% battery charge level is the target. So basically your 105 Ah battery is working like 85 Ah battery. Battery needs some empty space to store the braking energy.
At the same time I was told by the foreman at the service that at 80% in very cold weather the startability becomes problematic. They measure the startability using some sort of magical formula....when I had battery at 82% they calculated the startability at 36%.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 01-29-2014, 09:33 AM
ap90500 ap90500 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 404
Mein Auto: F11 530d xDrive -12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
At the same time I was told by the foreman at the service that at 80% in very cold weather the startability becomes problematic. They measure the startability using some sort of magical formula....when I had battery at 82% they calculated the startability at 36%.
It is a 100% fact that car keeps the battery constantlyat 75% to 85% charge level -> your battery is "fully" charged. Occasionally car regenerates the battery which means that it is charged to 100% for some time. Startability limit is set to 50% charge level at -15c (+5f). I think that this means that at -15c with 50% charge level the startability is close to zero (with some safety factor)

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...VU&usp=sharing

Last edited by ap90500; 01-29-2014 at 09:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:38 AM
poker838 poker838 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 179
Mein Auto: F25 x28 n52 + n20 / B8 A4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
Two hours at 7 amps means that your battery was quite good. X3's battery is 105 amps. Surely it is not linear, but it means you was at above 80%, I guess. I was told that the car starts displaying the "battery charge" errors below 80%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
At the same time I was told by the foreman at the service that at 80% in very cold weather the startability becomes problematic. They measure the startability using some sort of magical formula....when I had battery at 82% they calculated the startability at 36%.
I lack context. I don't have any electrical expertise whatsover. Is 80% considered that problematic for cars in general?

I know the automotive market is moving towards start stop technologies and the like. How have the other automakers dealt with this? I know the other German manufacturers have gone this route and the Detroit brands are moving towards it soon. How did MB / VAG deal with it? Poking around some of my usual forums they don't seem to have too much chatter about cold weather issues.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:41 AM
ap90500 ap90500 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 404
Mein Auto: F11 530d xDrive -12
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker838 View Post
I lack context. I don't have any electrical expertise whatsover. Is 80% considered that problematic for cars in general?

I know the automotive market is moving towards start stop technologies and the like. How have the other automakers dealt with this? I know the other German manufacturers have gone this route and the Detroit brands are moving towards it soon. How did MB / VAG deal with it? Poking around some of my usual forums they don't seem to have too much chatter about cold weather issues.
No. 80% is normal with start-stop.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:15 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,792
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker838 View Post
I lack context. I don't have any electrical expertise whatsover. Is 80% considered that problematic for cars in general?

I know the automotive market is moving towards start stop technologies and the like. How have the other automakers dealt with this? I know the other German manufacturers have gone this route and the Detroit brands are moving towards it soon. How did MB / VAG deal with it? Poking around some of my usual forums they don't seem to have too much chatter about cold weather issues.
Do a search in Audiworld or MBworld and you will come up with some cold weather related battery problems. These new cars are very heavy on electronics and stay alive even when the car is off. If you put in less electrical power than you used, you will have battery issues. Cold weather will also reduce the capacity of the battery.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:20 AM
Coder Coder is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 182
Mein Auto: 2011 X3 xDrive35i
PuMA is a BMW database of all reported problems and fixes. I think the acronym means Problem und Mebnahmenmanagement Aftersales or something like Problem and Measures management Aftersales.
__________________
Dave @7500 feet on the plains in Colorado
2011 X3 35i - Blue Water Metallic
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:52 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Do a search in Audiworld or MBworld and you will come up with some cold weather related battery problems. These new cars are very heavy on electronics and stay alive even when the car is off. If you put in less electrical power than you used, you will have battery issues. Cold weather will also reduce the capacity of the battery.
With all respect, I am not fully buying this argument. Again, comparing this car with my previous car. It had the battery of about 48 amps, about a half of X3's. It did have the heated seats and rear defroster. As for the audio, instead of playing the music from BMW's hard drive I was playing the MP3s off the CD-R. I bet CDROM drive consumes not less than the hard drive. The only thing that I have in X3 that I did not have in another car is the heated steering wheel. And believe me, with that old car I wanted to stay warm just like with X3 Otherwise there was a risk of having the bottom part frozen during first couple of minutes of the drive.

The only significant difference was that my old car had remote start (original) and when it was cold I did start it 5-7 minutes before driving off.

I believe this "heavy on electronics" is the [lousy] argument used by the car companies to cover their inability to design things properly. Just imagine if BMW was responsible for the space equipment or the Rover I doubt there are chargers and electrical outlets on Mars.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 01-29-2014, 01:16 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,792
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
With all respect, I am not fully buying this argument. Again, comparing this car with my previous car. It had the battery of about 48 amps, about a half of X3's. It did have the heated seats and rear defroster. As for the audio, instead of playing the music from BMW's hard drive I was playing the MP3s off the CD-R. I bet CDROM drive consumes not less than the hard drive. The only thing that I have in X3 that I did not have in another car is the heated steering wheel. And believe me, with that old car I wanted to stay warm just like with X3 Otherwise there was a risk of having the bottom part frozen during first couple of minutes of the drive.

The only significant difference was that my old car had remote start (original) and when it was cold I did start it 5-7 minutes before driving off.

I believe this "heavy on electronics" is the [lousy] argument used by the car companies to cover their inability to design things properly. Just imagine if BMW was responsible for the space equipment or the Rover I doubt there are chargers and electrical outlets on Mars.
I think in your case, there is something wrong with your car. Sounds like it is a job for the lawyers at this point. That is not to say that there is a wide spread problem with all BMWs in cold weather. We have 2 BMW we leave outside in single digit temperature all the time and we never has a problem. What I was trying to generalize is that new cars have a higher electrical demand and these problems are more common now a days.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 01-29-2014, 01:22 PM
BMW_FIN BMW_FIN is offline
Registered User
Location: Finland
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4
Mein Auto: F30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
Also, BMW customer service has refused to even discuss the buyback. I guess they take advantage of the lack of lemon laws in Canada, they have enough troubles with that in USA, I think Not even apologizing for real for the crap they have sold, just standard "I truly apologized for the frustration you have with your vehicle". Hahaha, you was stupid enough to pay us - you are screwed, we have won

Well, that how much they value their image in Canada, I suppose. Surely will tell the story to my dentist in details when I see her

My biggest concern (apart of getting rid of that lemon - that's the lawyer's job now) is that this car will die again soon enough and either me or my wife will be stuck again in an ultimate but ultimately unreliable driving machine.
And simple software change can fix this problem, but german engineer is just so hard-headed that he wont admit the whole thing.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 01-31-2014, 10:58 AM
jonott10 jonott10 is offline
Registered User
Location: Ottawa, Canada
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11
Mein Auto: 2011 X3 35i
Have you guys been getting the message again? I got it a few times during that cold spell here in Ottawa in late Dec early Jan and brought it in to the dealer and was told that it's due to the cold weather and if the error wasn't persistant then it's nothing to worry about. So what I did from then on is always lock the car when I get home even though it's in the garage and unplug anything inside the car that could be still draining some power and haven't seen the message again.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 01-31-2014, 11:18 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonott10 View Post
Have you guys been getting the message again? I got it a few times during that cold spell here in Ottawa in late Dec early Jan and brought it in to the dealer and was told that it's due to the cold weather and if the error wasn't persistant then it's nothing to worry about. So what I did from then on is always lock the car when I get home even though it's in the garage and unplug anything inside the car that could be still draining some power and haven't seen the message again.
I believe we are talking about two different problems here. One is the general problem with [some] vehicles experiencing excessive battery drain and not recharging them properly due to bad design and somewhat challenging usage patterns. And another one is that weird issue about the PDM that prevents the car from starting after a trip in cold weather. So far we had two incidents of the latter type with my car. Plus the low battery condition which was, I believe, corrected by charging the battery with an external charger. At least, this is how I see it...
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 01-31-2014, 12:06 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,792
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrigoriev View Post
I believe we are talking about two different problems here. One is the general problem with [some] vehicles experiencing excessive battery drain and not recharging them properly due to bad design and somewhat challenging usage patterns. And another one is that weird issue about the PDM that prevents the car from starting after a trip in cold weather. So far we had two incidents of the latter type with my car. Plus the low battery condition which was, I believe, corrected by charging the battery with an external charger. At least, this is how I see it...
If your battery is charged and you cannot start the car, there are other issues.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 01-31-2014, 12:34 PM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
If your battery is charged and you cannot start the car, there are other issues.
At least in my case it did not go that far. 3 days before first incident I did get the message about the battery charge. And so I have charged it - as prescribed. And 3 days later - booom, car fails to start again after a trip. And then starts one hour later. BMW measured the battery charge level at 82% when they got the car.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 02-03-2014, 03:16 PM
Want the Thrill Want the Thrill is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 976
Mein Auto: 2011 X3 35i
Any more on this? After weeks of temps in the low 20's and below zero, I hadn't gotten any warnings on my X3. Took it out today and for the first time I got a "charge battery" warning when I shut off the vehicle. After it sat for 6 hours it started right up but said battery was discharging while car was off and certain electronics were shut down. I will have had the X3 for three years come July and this is the first time I've gotten the message. So I'm wondering if I push for a new PDM or just throw it on the charger and hope things go better from here on out. Doesn't sit well with me that I have to worry about charging the car every time it gets cold. I live in Michigan for goodness sake. It's cold here for 4-5 months straight!!
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 02-06-2014, 06:22 AM
ngrigoriev ngrigoriev is offline
Registered User
Location: Montreal
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: X3 xDrive35i
BTW, I think I (at least me personally) can close on this battery issue. I have a solid proof both stalls we had have absolutely nothing to do with the battery. So it was all BS from the service to get me out of the door, at least the first time. After the issue with PDM was identified I have stopped charging the car frequently. Recently I did a test: did not charge it for a week, driving my usual routes, turning all the heating stuff I needed without any hesitation. So? At the end of that week we had pretty warm day and the car was doing ASS when it was about -0.5C outside. Not that I liked the fact that it was stopping the cold engine (!) when it was less than +3.5C, but the fact that it was doing it proves that the battery charge was quite sufficient. And after that I have connected the CTEK charger. So it went from the phase 3 to phase 4 very quickly, which means that the battery was most likely at 90% or more.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 F25 (2011 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms