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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 12-15-2013, 11:10 PM
shasayed shasayed is offline
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Track or No Track

I drive a '09 335i E93....have had it since sept 2012 and i really want to test its limits, hit some good speeds while cornering, etc....all without worrying about flashing lights in the rear....

Coming summer i really want to try out my car on a track....in its stock state, should i do this? any tips and suggestions are most welcome...
Should i go with some one experienced for the first time or do they teach you tips and tricks before you hit the track?
What kinds of costs am i looking at in relation to this entire experience?

Also, i am in Toronto, ON, so if you know of any good tracks please let me know.

I dont know how to rate my driving skills so i wont attempt at that....

thanks a bunch in advance for all you who reply to this...
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:19 PM
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Track or No Track

Go to shannonville, or cayuga. My first track day was at shannonville. One of my buddies took me. It was Great! Drove my car to the limit!


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Old 12-15-2013, 11:21 PM
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AskylitDrive AskylitDrive is offline
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I would go with a friend thats been tracking before, my friend really helped me. And second it was something like 70 bucks for like 4 hours of track time


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Old 12-15-2013, 11:33 PM
shasayed shasayed is offline
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Originally Posted by AskylitDrive View Post
I would go with a friend thats been tracking before, my friend really helped me. And second it was something like 70 bucks for like 4 hours of track time


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Dont really know anyone who goes to the track so going to have to make a new friend. lol....
Ive been told I will need a brand new set of tires and they will be done by the end of the day, how true is this?
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:43 PM
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AskylitDrive AskylitDrive is offline
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Track or No Track

The group i went with, these guys go very often and they all brought extra sets of tires. Tires for the track. But me, i had my all season run flats that were a year old and you could say i used them to the limit but the fact was that i don't go every week and it was my first time. So if you don't plan to stay on the track for 4 hours straight and driving the car like a pro, than i don't think you need a extra set of tires. What i did was i went out for a few laps, came back to the pit area, chilled for a bit and repeat. My friends that brought me there, had full on races with each other with set laps. So in that case i can understand why they brought extra set of tires. But if you are like me and just want to try out the track cause you never been than i'd say just stick with your tires and you should be fine. Just my opinion though


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  #6  
Old 12-16-2013, 06:15 AM
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I don't have any references for Canada. I don't even know if you could get on track day with BMWCCA in U.S. - you probably can, but I'm not 100% sure. If you can, tracks that are minimally reasonable distance from you on Western side are Gingerman Raceway in MI and Mid-Ohio. We have VT representation on this forum, don't know how far that is once you reach Buffalo, NY but probably a bit closer than MI or OH.

Most of the official car clubs will not let you run a convertible. The only exception I saw up to now were Boxsters with Porsche Club of America. Ask explicit consent first before paying any money.

Your stock car should be plenty fast and well-equipped for your fist time on the track. You don't need to buy anything except for brake fluid change and inspection.

I personally think and it is only my opinion that you are much better off if the format includes an instructor that can talk to you in the car and give you input on how to approach and do things. Yes, you can go alone and burn a set of tires, but I doubt you will learn anything. Which might not matter at all if the whole point of the exercise is to drive fast without cops stopping you.

Good luck and have fun.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:18 AM
R1200 R1200 is offline
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Mondays at Cayuga are open for anyone to try their car on a track. I would start there. The Nelson track at Shannonville is slower with many tight turns and a great place to practise apex judgement and technique. The Fabi track is faster and hence more dangerous. Mosport is for pros, in my opinion with elevation changes. You may need to belong to a club to get on Shannonville or Mosport but the Cayuga track is open to anyone on Mondays.

Your best approach is to leave the car set up as you normally would for street driving. This will show you the limits that you can count on in a crisis situation. In fact, track day should be for driver skill development and not to prove how fast a race prepped car can go.

Insurance restrictions prevent you from timing laps and some tracks have no passing rules on curves. The convertible model is not the best choice as well. Some tracks will not allow them without real (not style) roll bars and convertibles flex too much to be good Solo 2 cars.

It's all about advanced driver training in the car that you normally drive on the street. That's the real value in track time.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:41 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shasayed View Post
I drive a '09 335i E93....have had it since sept 2012 and i really want to test its limits, hit some good speeds while cornering, etc....all without worrying about flashing lights in the rear....

Coming summer i really want to try out my car on a track....in its stock state, should i do this? any tips and suggestions are most welcome...
Should i go with some one experienced for the first time or do they teach you tips and tricks before you hit the track?
What kinds of costs am i looking at in relation to this entire experience?

Also, i am in Toronto, ON, so if you know of any good tracks please let me know.

I dont know how to rate my driving skills so i wont attempt at that....

thanks a bunch in advance for all you who reply to this...

Most tracks don't even want to see your shadow in a convertible - banned!

And....isn't it an odd time o'year to track in Toronto?

Name:  Batman.gif
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Now look, shasayed....you've a long, cold Winter ahead and as you've doubltless got your ride in a heated space, an excellent time to do some mods. HERE's what I recommend.

It'll take awhile and maybe you'll defray costs with Christmas presents but hey, when you're done, your ride will be totally transformed....no pothole explosions....the limit now beyond your personal best to achieve, you may with confidence explore the ragged edge, yet you retain all of the gentlemanly civility for which Canada, and BMW, is known.


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  #9  
Old 12-16-2013, 08:11 PM
shasayed shasayed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
I don't have any references for Canada. I don't even know if you could get on track day with BMWCCA in U.S. - you probably can, but I'm not 100% sure. If you can, tracks that are minimally reasonable distance from you on Western side are Gingerman Raceway in MI and Mid-Ohio. We have VT representation on this forum, don't know how far that is once you reach Buffalo, NY but probably a bit closer than MI or OH.

Most of the official car clubs will not let you run a convertible. The only exception I saw up to now were Boxsters with Porsche Club of America. Ask explicit consent first before paying any money.

Your stock car should be plenty fast and well-equipped for your fist time on the track. You don't need to buy anything except for brake fluid change and inspection.

I personally think and it is only my opinion that you are much better off if the format includes an instructor that can talk to you in the car and give you input on how to approach and do things. Yes, you can go alone and burn a set of tires, but I doubt you will learn anything. Which might not matter at all if the whole point of the exercise is to drive fast without cops stopping you.

Good luck and have fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Most tracks don't even want to see your shadow in a convertible - banned!

And....isn't it an odd time o'year to track in Toronto?

Attachment 412610

Now look, shasayed....you've a long, cold Winter ahead and as you've doubltless got your ride in a heated space, an excellent time to do some mods. HERE's what I recommend.

It'll take awhile and maybe you'll defray costs with Christmas presents but hey, when you're done, your ride will be totally transformed....no pothole explosions....the limit now beyond your personal best to achieve, you may with confidence explore the ragged edge, yet you retain all of the gentlemanly civility for which Canada, and BMW, is known.


Mark I am definitely looking to learn and become better at my driving skills so your tips are definitely helpful. I think the Cayuga track here could be a good option because their website shows they may have instructors there as well. come spring, I need to visit the track at least once. My only fear is the thought of dropping a grand on a set of tires and then seeing them be done in just ONE DAY!

Also, hopefully, they let me take my convertible on the track because that would be a major disappointment. Although, might be a motivation towards buying a M3

Calwaterboy, you're really getting me ready to own the tracks down here eh?
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  #10  
Old 12-17-2013, 03:15 AM
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Calwaterboy, you're really getting me ready to own the tracks down here eh?

Did mine outta frustration - couldn't live w/spending $60k for that crappy suspension.

Got what I wanted, and then some! Available level of grip is mind bending....stock suspension a horrible joke on an unsuspecting public.
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  #11  
Old 12-17-2013, 03:22 AM
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.

And I don't track....did it purely for everyday me.


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  #12  
Old 12-17-2013, 04:43 AM
Robin128 Robin128 is offline
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I wouldn't track race a convertible.

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  #13  
Old 12-17-2013, 05:30 AM
el jimador el jimador is offline
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  #14  
Old 12-17-2013, 05:42 AM
nhman nhman is offline
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OP, you may want to check with the local BMW club. I don't live in Canada but I believe this is their main website http://www.bmwclub.ca/. You may need to attend an Advanced Driving Skills course before being allowed on the track. But this will give you an feel for controlling under/oversteer, emergency braking and other fundamental skills needed for the track. A club sponsored event is usually well organized. One of the instructors will guide you through the course defining the line, braking points, etc. Whether or not your convertible will be allowed on the course, check with club.

Prior to attending a track session you'll need to have a inspection done. Assuming that it passes, there shouldn't be any modifications required to your vehicle.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:27 AM
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If you show up at the track with a good set of tires you will leave with a good set of tires. It is very rare that a novice is going to consistently be at even 70% of a 335's ability his first couple of times out. ABS will prevent skidding when slowing, and your ability isn't going to scrub off much rubber on turns. There are many discussions on this subject if you search a bit.
$70 for four hours of track time? Sign me up!
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:38 AM
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RE: convertibles, the local CCA chapters here in the northeast U.S. allow convertibles if equipped with a rollbar. I have heard that some other non-BMW clubs allow verts on the track without a rollbar, but I can't imagine why anyone would track a convertible without one. I have seen too much go wrong on the track. If you roll your car you would be seriously hurt or killed. You could do car control or maybe autocross, but no way I'm driving a convertible at speed on the race track without a bar.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:55 AM
emptydesk emptydesk is offline
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Highly unusual to get on a track with a stock convertible, not safe at all and probably is not going to happen

With thermocycled, read not brand new, tires and proper pressure management they will hold up for several days at the track.

Pads with at least 60% still available, flush with new fluid. Stock fluid is ok, but will fade. Go with a higher boiling point fluid.

Pointless without an instructor as you will have no idea what you are doing right or wrong, mostly it will be wrong.

Since your car is probably not acceptable, think about a driving school with vehicles. Another option would be a car skills clinic. This is a great way to learn some basic skills and how your car responds to input under more challenging conditions and will usually include a 20 min hot lap session at the end of the day.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shasayed View Post
My only fear is the thought of dropping a grand on a set of tires and then seeing them be done in just ONE DAY!
If you don't go and try to destroy tires on purpose (donuts, burnouts on start ...), there will be hardly any extra damage on them your first visit to the track. Just leave nannies on (for more than just tire's sake) and try to enjoy it.

Also, if actual learning is the goal, try to find a course that teaches car control at relatively low speeds on a parking lot transformed into mini-autocross track and skidpad for that occasion. Here in U.S. it is called "car control clinic" or go with streetsurvival.org to get an idea what are we talking about.

Unfortunately, as other posters told you as well, tracking a convertible is not going to be easy. You guys in Canada might have different rules, though, so check it out and ask for a written/e-mail OK before you pay.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:58 AM
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is your car a convertible you may need to purchase a rollbar before they let you track it. Different tracks have different rules
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:20 PM
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///M-ratedE90 ///M-ratedE90 is offline
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Whatever you do, if you go to a track, get as much instruction as you can because:
1) You will be less likely to prang your car than starting alone. Fixing even glancing blows can be very expensive. Ask me how I know...or ask DSX, he sings like a canary at the mearest threat of being tickled. (Don't ask me how I know that!)
2) You will be driving safer and faster sooner with a series of sessions with an experienced instructor. Some aspects of high performance driving are counterintuitive and you need to learn these before you become safer and faster.
3) Understanding track etiquette - once again to make you safer and the cars sharing the track safer

It is going to be tough to get track time with a convertible, however, a hard-top vert may help. I have seen M3 verts at the track. I would really, really advise against starting out driving solo.

EDIT: How far is Mosport from Toronto?

http://www.canadiantiremotorsportpar...ng-experiences

There is also Calabogie track. A couple of buddies think this is a great place too...
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Last edited by ///M-ratedE90; 12-17-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:37 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-ratedE90 View Post
Whatever you do, if you go to a track, get as much instruction as you can because:
1) You will be less likely to prang your car than starting alone. Fixing even glancing blows can be very expensive. Ask me how I know...or ask DSX, he sings like a canary at the mearest threat of being tickled. (Don't ask me how I know that!)
2) You will be driving safer and faster sooner with a series of sessions with an experienced instructor. Some aspects of high performance driving are counterintuitive and you need to learn these before you become safer and faster.
3) Understanding track etiquette - once again to make you safer and the cars sharing the track safer

It is going to be tough to get track time with a convertible, however, a hard-top vert may help. I have seen M3 verts at the track. I would really, really advise against starting out driving solo.

EDIT: How far is Mosport from Toronto?

http://www.canadiantiremotorsportpar...ng-experiences

There is also Calabogie track. A couple of buddies think this is a great place too...
Those tracks and/or clubs that allow convertibles generally require pop-up roll bars.

This is the policy of the Drivers Club at Lime Rock.

Quote:
Convertibles:

For members and guests protection, The Club does not allow convertibles without rollover protection to participate on-track. Factory fitted rollover systems including pop-up systems, such as those on the M3 convertible, Mini Cooper, Boxster, Carrera TT, S2000, Audi TT, 350Z, Z4, Z8, etc are allowed. However all factory fitted systems must meet the "broom handle test" which measures whether the head, and helmet fit below a line formed from the top of the rollover bar to the top of the dashboard. For convertibles without factory rollover protection, a four point, structural roll bar that meets SCCA GCR guidelines for Solo 1 is mandatory.
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Last edited by captainaudio; 12-17-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:51 PM
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Roll bars arent too expensive too you can get one made for under 400.00 the only issue is retracting your roof and having the bars.

Other than thaat roll bars look awesome in verts
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shasayed View Post
I drive a '09 335i E93....have had it since sept 2012 and i really want to test its limits, hit some good speeds while cornering, etc....all without worrying about flashing lights in the rear....

Coming summer i really want to try out my car on a track....in its stock state, should i do this? any tips and suggestions are most welcome...
Should i go with some one experienced for the first time or do they teach you tips and tricks before you hit the track?
What kinds of costs am i looking at in relation to this entire experience?

Also, i am in Toronto, ON, so if you know of any good tracks please let me know.

I dont know how to rate my driving skills so i wont attempt at that....

thanks a bunch in advance for all you who reply to this...
Edit: Sorry, wrote this before I realized you have a convertible. BMW Club won't let you run that without a roll bar installed.

Go to the Canadian chapter of BMW Car Club for Toronto, they'll have a lot of driving events, starting in April.

http://trillium-bmwclub.ca/

About $200-250 per day, plus $75 for a track inspection at your mechanic.

You're close to Mosport, a fantastic track, and not sure how far Montreal is but 1 hr west of Montreal is Mont Tremblant, one of the best tracks in North America.

You're probably not too far from Watkins Glen, but I wouldn't drive that as a noob.
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Last edited by Chris90; 12-17-2013 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:36 PM
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Dont really know anyone who goes to the track so going to have to make a new friend. lol....
Ive been told I will need a brand new set of tires and they will be done by the end of the day, how true is this?
not true at all. Summer tires should last 5-10 track days depending on your driving style and how heavy your car is. A 335i shouldn't be too bad. Same for brakes, should last 5-10 days or more, but less if you're heavy on the brakes, as most noobs are.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Edit: Sorry, wrote this before I realized you have a convertible. BMW Club won't let you run that without a roll bar installed.

Go to the Canadian chapter of BMW Car Club for Toronto, they'll have a lot of driving events, starting in April.

http://trillium-bmwclub.ca/

About $200-250 per day, plus $75 for a track inspection at your mechanic.

You're close to Mosport, a fantastic track, and not sure how far Montreal is but 1 hr west of Montreal is Mont Tremblant, one of the best tracks in North America.

You're probably not too far from Watkins Glen, but I wouldn't drive that as a noob.
$200-250 to go on the track?!?!? I paid $70 for 4 hours up in shannonville. it was a big group of us though, so i don't know if that had to do with it. But there was an instructor there that took us through the track at low speeds for 2 laps. I think the OP shouldn't spend that much on the track if its his first time... And i didn't know your car was convertible OP, from the looks of it, you won't be able to get on the track unless you have roll bars...


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