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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 12-19-2013, 05:59 AM
SCOALE SCOALE is offline
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335is handling

My 335is rear-end gets unsettled (sideways shift/bounce) over relatively minor road imperfections. I don't mind a stiff ride (coming from e46 zhp), but I do mind losing traction when accelerating, cornering and/or just traveling over expansion joints, etc. I'm running 19" type 313 wheels and bridgestone run flats. I've read that swapping wheels, tires and dampers does address issue, but I don't want to do more than necessary. Therefore, I would like input on the following:

1) Will changing to 19" go-flats be sufficient to address issues?
2) Are those of you with 18" wheels and run flats experiencing this issue?
3) Are those of you with 18" wheels and go flats experiencing this issue?

Really appreciate input
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  #2  
Old 12-19-2013, 06:19 AM
daytrader daytrader is offline
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Keep the tires, go limited slip differential (LSD). Oh Cal!
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:25 AM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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What year 335is? If it's an E92, I don't have any similar issues as your are experiencing with the 19" wheels. How many miles on your car? Are your tires inflated properly?
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:26 AM
SCOALE SCOALE is offline
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Originally Posted by daytrader View Post
Keep the tires, go limited slip differential (LSD). Oh Cal!
Yep, I've read Cal's recap of what he has done to his vehicle and I know he is a fan of LSD, M suspension components, etc. I'm not sure I want to go that far while under warranty
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:29 AM
SCOALE SCOALE is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
What year 335is? If it's an E92, I don't have any similar issues as your are experiencing with the 19" wheels. How many miles on your car? Are your tires inflated properly?
2013 with 7k miles. Bought with 6k from BMW dealership and had inspected on top of that. Car tracks perfect and corners very well but it skips and bounces a bit over road imperfections - and there are plenty of those in Charlotte, NC
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:33 AM
daytrader daytrader is offline
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Originally Posted by SCOALE View Post
Yep, I've read Cal's recap of what he has done to his vehicle and I know he is a fan of LSD, M suspension components, etc. I'm not sure I want to go that far while under warranty
Yeah, good point. Not sure go flats will help - i (have the same problem as many of us do) looked into go flats but decided to stay run flat for the conveniences.

So much power and response that there's not much else you can do other than learn to feather the go peddle.
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  #7  
Old 12-19-2013, 06:51 AM
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I would change the tires first. Am running some mods about 410whp without major traction issues, except for 1st gear launches, unless its under 40 degrees. 245X35ZRX19 - 275X30ZRX19 Conti DW.
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOALE View Post
2013 with 7k miles. Bought with 6k from BMW dealership and had inspected on top of that. Car tracks perfect and corners very well but it skips and bounces a bit over road imperfections - and there are plenty of those in Charlotte, NC
I had a 2001 Corvette that did that on the highway and on bad road surfaces. It drove me nuts. To minimize it, I added larger diameter (ZO6) sway bars which helped a bit in that case, but, the tires were the biggest culprit. The problem went away when I switched from the Goodyear Eagles to Michelin PS2s.

My 335is came with Michelins. I first had the car here in PA for two years which also has crappy roads. I found that the car handled the best, and handled crappy roads the best when I set the tire pressures to what the driver door sticker recommended. When I first got the car, I hit a pot hole which was harsh. I checked the tire pressures and they were low. I never had an issue since with the proper inflation.
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:57 AM
daytrader daytrader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOALE View Post
Yep, I've read Cal's recap of what he has done to his vehicle and I know he is a fan of LSD, M suspension components, etc. I'm not sure I want to go that far while under warranty
Yeah I think he gives dissertations on the topic every 3rd Thursday of the month, nominal fees apply!
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:00 AM
daytrader daytrader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I had a 2001 Corvette that did that on the highway and on bad road surfaces. It drove me nuts. To minimize it, I added larger diameter (ZO6) sway bars which helped a bit in that case, but, the tires were the biggest culprit. The problem went away when I switched from the Goodyear Eagles to Michelin PS2s.

My 335is came with Michelins. I first had the car here in PA for two years which also has crappy roads. I found that the car handled the best, and handled crappy roads the best when I set the tire pressures to what the driver door sticker recommended. When I first got the car, I hit a pot hole which was harsh. I checked the tire pressures and they were low. I never had an issue since with the proper inflation.
Agreed. I found the door jam numbers to be the best for sticking to the road. The dealer always tried to set them lower, but I find its not the best for my e92.
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  #11  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by daytrader View Post
Agreed. I found the door jam numbers to be the best for sticking to the road. The dealer always tried to set them lower, but I find its not the best for my e92.
It's counter intuitive to my thinking that a tire with higher inflation would ride softer than an underinflated tire, but the rubber band like run-flat performance tires that are mounted to the 19" wheels defintely do better with the recommended inflation.

The other thing that may be happening is colder ambient temperatures. All performance tires feel like cement when the outside temps fall to under 45 degrees. You may have this going on as well?
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:27 AM
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335is handling

Go flat tires and Koni FSD shocks will make a huge improvement.


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  #13  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOALE View Post
My 335is rear-end gets unsettled (sideways shift/bounce) over relatively minor road imperfections. I don't mind a stiff ride (coming from e46 zhp), but I do mind losing traction when accelerating, cornering and/or just traveling over expansion joints, etc. :
I experience the same with my E92 335i with 18" with RFT. There is one expansion joint (barely noticeable visually) on my commute that literally lifts me off my seat going at 70mph. I cringe every time before I go over that, and that never happened with my X5. I also had E46 Sport for years in Connecticut and never had any experience like this.

As CA advised, I plan to ditch RFT once worn out and install Koni FSDs. This suspension issue really ruins the entire driving experience for me and I drive on nice San Diego roads!

I set my tire pressure to the recommended pressure on the door.
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2013, 11:47 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOALE View Post
My 335is rear-end gets unsettled (sideways shift/bounce) over relatively minor road imperfections. I don't mind a stiff ride (coming from e46 zhp), but I do mind losing traction when accelerating, cornering and/or just traveling over expansion joints, etc. I'm running 19" type 313 wheels and bridgestone run flats. I've read that swapping wheels, tires and dampers does address issue, but I don't want to do more than necessary. Therefore, I would like input on the following:

1) Will changing to 19" go-flats be sufficient to address issues?
2) Are those of you with 18" wheels and run flats experiencing this issue?
3) Are those of you with 18" wheels and go flats experiencing this issue?

Really appreciate input

Most consider over $1k LSD a significant investment and perhaps inappropriate for a warrantied car. I did it under warranty - no issues. Of course, I planned to keep mine far beyond the warranty period.

But $250 for M subframe bushings might be what you want. EZ DIY install, and educational. Not at all obvious. Recommended! Stock bushings way too squooshey....check the air space in 'em....fail....
  • No, new rubber won't solve the problem - I ran PS2's & PSS's to no avail
  • No, 19" rims will do little but make your ride harsh

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 12-19-2013 at 11:50 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:17 PM
isjoey isjoey is offline
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I know the unsettled / floating feeling you are taking about as well - with 18" 313s and PS2s. In spite of that feeling you will not loose traction on account of it when getting on the gas hard or pushing hard unless the road is rough. Keeping the tire pressure at the lower end will help, I only bump of the pressure for longer trips.

Like others have said - suspension components and or an LSD is the way to go to clear this up. I will be doing both over the winter.
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isjoey View Post
I know the unsettled / floating feeling you are taking about as well - with 18" 313s and PS2s. In spite of that feeling you will not loose traction on account of it when getting on the gas hard or pushing hard unless the road is rough. Keeping the tire pressure at the lower end will help, I only bump of the pressure for longer trips.

Like others have said - suspension components and or an LSD is the way to go to clear this up. I will be doing both over the winter.
I'm not sure you are talking about the same things. I may be wrong, but the OP is not saying it's a "floating" feeling. If I understand him properly, when you're on the highway and hit a rough patch in the road, or a deep manhole cover on a back road, etc., the car will feel like it's being tossed/bounced a bit off track/temporarily lost it's footing. Most of the time, from reading numerous discussions on the subject, the tires are the biggest culprit, followed by the suspension. One poster recommended changing bushings. I changed the bushings along with the sway bars on the Corvette I used as an example in a previous post and it did help. I had forgot to mention that.

I'm just surprised that some are experiencing that with their 335is as I have never experienced that issue with mine.
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:55 PM
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Re: 335is handling

Bear---Did you put these tires onto the stock 19" wheels? Didn't know you can run this setup

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Old 12-19-2013, 07:59 PM
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LSD.

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Old 12-20-2013, 06:12 AM
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Bear---Did you put these tires onto the stock 19" wheels? Didn't know you can run this setup

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You need to be careful of the brand. Yokohama tend to run big & Goodyear small while Conti splits the difference in the same sized tires.

Use Tire Rack to get the actual physical dimensions of the tires since despite common perception all 245 & 275's are not the same size


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Old 12-20-2013, 09:48 AM
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This problem existed with my BMW 320i in the 70s. On dry roads it was fine but any slight loss of traction (wet, snow, sand) and the rear end would loose grip. The problem was low profile tires that were too wide. I assumed that the contact patch was not compliant enough or maybe the rubber was getting old and hard.

On our current E91 I replaced the wider rear rims with the same size as the fronts. No issue at all with the rear end losing traction on hard corners or rough surfaces. The wagon could have more weight on the rear axle.

I would consider new tires as the first step and maybe go with softer rubber compound performance tires. Check your shocks as well as a seized shock could cause the same issue.
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:05 AM
isjoey isjoey is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I'm not sure you are talking about the same things. I may be wrong, but the OP is not saying it's a "floating" feeling. If I understand him properly, when you're on the highway and hit a rough patch in the road, or a deep manhole cover on a back road, etc., the car will feel like it's being tossed/bounced a bit off track/temporarily lost it's footing. Most of the time, from reading numerous discussions on the subject, the tires are the biggest culprit, followed by the suspension. One poster recommended changing bushings. I changed the bushings along with the sway bars on the Corvette I used as an example in a previous post and it did help. I had forgot to mention that.

I'm just surprised that some are experiencing that with their 335is as I have never experienced that issue with mine.
Pretty sure we are talking about the same thing - I have read and heard this same "unsettled" feeling from many 335i/335is owners. I mostly feel this driving 35-55 or so. The rear feels as if it does get bounced out of place a little when hitting a rough spot or on a rough road. To me when this occurs I think it make the rear feel - floaty. Although, it does not feel like I loose grip. When getting on the gas hard I cannot say I feel this and rough spots / roads make all cars act up in some way. In spite of this I feel the 335is is very solid in the rear. When getting on the gas it of course tightens the rear up so I cannot say I feel this.

Many who have upgraded suspension have said this unsettled feeling was elimited. The same it seems is said when people first drive an M3 - what would unsettle a 335i the M3 goes over like nothing - more than just tires I feel.
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:34 PM
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Re: 335is handling

SCOALE, it went away (for all practical purposes) when I switched to Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires. Yes, I have 18" rims and 225 front 255 rear width. But if you want perfect, then 17" square setup is a way to go. I plan on recycling my ex winter rims for track tires next season and then I might have better feedback, but driving on those 225/45 R17 tires on all 4 corners was sublime with winter tires. Winter tires are go flat, of course.

We'll see how track tires will feel in the same size.

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Old 12-20-2013, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isjoey View Post
Pretty sure we are talking about the same thing - I have read and heard this same "unsettled" feeling from many 335i/335is owners. I mostly feel this driving 35-55 or so. The rear feels as if it does get bounced out of place a little when hitting a rough spot or on a rough road. To me when this occurs I think it make the rear feel - floaty. Although, it does not feel like I loose grip. When getting on the gas hard I cannot say I feel this and rough spots / roads make all cars act up in some way. In spite of this I feel the 335is is very solid in the rear. When getting on the gas it of course tightens the rear up so I cannot say I feel this.

Many who have upgraded suspension have said this unsettled feeling was elimited. The same it seems is said when people first drive an M3 - what would unsettle a 335i the M3 goes over like nothing - more than just tires I feel.
We have a 2011 E90 M3 that my son drives. I was about to comment before that the M3 is much more compliant on poor road surfaces as compared to my car, no doubt due to having go flat tires and it's suspension system.

But, I may be more rough and tumble than others since I'm used to driving cars with performance tires and suspensions. Cars like my last ZO6 and my two previous Corvettes give you real clarity when it comes to road feel. My current Porsche is more forgiving than the Corvettes, as it has adjustable suspension settings, but it's not shy in letting you know what you just drove over. Actually, I'd have to say that the M3, with it's adjustable suspension in normal mode, is the most compliant of all of the sporty cars that I've had, including our current 2011 Audi S4 or our '08 535xi. My 335is would probably fall below the Porsche and equal to the Audi S4 (adjustable suspension in dynamic mode) in how it handles road surfaces.
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Last edited by beden1; 12-20-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 12-20-2013, 05:06 PM
SCOALE SCOALE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isjoey View Post
Pretty sure we are talking about the same thing - I have read and heard this same "unsettled" feeling from many 335i/335is owners. I mostly feel this driving 35-55 or so. The rear feels as if it does get bounced out of place a little when hitting a rough spot or on a rough road. To me when this occurs I think it make the rear feel - floaty. Although, it does not feel like I loose grip. When getting on the gas hard I cannot say I feel this and rough spots / roads make all cars act up in some way. In spite of this I feel the 335is is very solid in the rear. When getting on the gas it of course tightens the rear up so I cannot say I feel this.

Many who have upgraded suspension have said this unsettled feeling was elimited. The same it seems is said when people first drive an M3 - what would unsettle a 335i the M3 goes over like nothing - more than just tires I feel.
EXACTLY what I was trying to communicate: "The rear feels like it gets bounced out of place a little when hitting a rough spot on the road".

Appreciate everyone's feedback. I like the look of 19" wheels so best case would be to resolve this with a switch to 19" go-flats. However, it doesn't sound like that is a sure thing and, consequently, would sign me up for another couple of suboptimal years @ 10k miles/year. Therefore, I'm thinking about starting with 18" wheels AND go flats. If that doesn't get it all the way done then I go to Koni FSD. Down the road I may also consider LSD and M3 control arms and bushings because there appears to be no downside to those mods.
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  #25  
Old 12-20-2013, 06:49 PM
Dashdog Dashdog is offline
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I have the 18" with the PS-2's, and notice the same issue- especially when I first got the car. I had been driving a VW GTI with Bilstien PSS-10's for the previous five years. You can say what you want about FWD, but that car handled much better than this one. There is still much to like with it, just trying to decide whether to buy it off lease and upgrade the suspension, or trade it on something else.

Last edited by Dashdog; 12-20-2013 at 06:53 PM.
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