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X1 E84 (2011 - current)
The new to the US BMW X1 will arrive at BMW dealers in the fall of 2012 as a 2013 model year. Get your X1 28i with either sDrive (RWD) or xDrive (AWD) or get the US exclusive I6 N55 powered X1 35i dDrive.

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  #1  
Old 12-23-2013, 03:39 PM
Moe 92 Moe 92 is offline
Steve In Texas
Location: Georgetown, TX
 
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Talking Just Placed My Order!

Merry Christmas to me! I just ordered my first BMW! I've been a BMW fan for years, but that appreciation has always been at odds with my frugality until now.

So, I've ordered an X1 x35i xLine, Midnight Blue with Terra leather, ultimate pkg, cold weather pkg (makes no sense since I live in Texas, but what can I say?, I was on a roll), paddle shifters, and HK.



Well, I say I've ordered it. What I've done is hand the dealership a check for $1000 and initialled a configuration matching the car I want. I've signed nothing halfway official looking indicating that we've agreed on pricing (though we supposedly have). All I have is a very back-of-a-napkin document with several scratched out prices, trade-in values, etc. and then a formula with the pricing and trade-in value to which we agreed circled and initialed. I'm told the check will not be deposited unless and until the car comes in and I decide to apply it towards the purchase. After being told that if I placed an order I'd receive a production number and lock in the currently available incentive finance rate, I was told today that the production number may not be available until the car goes into production and that I'd not be able to lock in financing until I take delivery. I was only able to get a gentlemens agreement that if I were unable to get similar financing when the car came in I'd have the option of taking back my deposit and cancelling the purchase.

Am I being cynical in thinking there may be some shenanigans afoot? It just doesn't feel very official at this point.
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2013, 04:45 PM
jayb328i jayb328i is offline
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Sounds like he might be your best friend or relative---having a gentlemens agreement. But even then, for a purchase of this size---a formal paper agreement, contract, would do just fine.
I never purchased a new car without having the full agreement IN WRITING, every detail, including approximate delivery date. Sounds like he can break it at will, or even better--when the car comes in and is in front of you, do a little bait-and-switch---meaning ask for more. The temptation will be too great for you to walk.
NO--it is not normal not to have it in writing---with ANY dealership.
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Old 12-23-2013, 04:52 PM
skilletbgm skilletbgm is offline
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Just Placed My Order!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe 92 View Post
Merry Christmas to me! I just ordered my first BMW! I've been a BMW fan for years, but that appreciation has always been at odds with my frugality until now.

So, I've ordered an X1 x35i xLine, Midnight Blue with Terra leather, ultimate pkg, cold weather pkg (makes no sense since I live in Texas, but what can I say?, I was on a roll), paddle shifters, and HK.



Well, I say I've ordered it. What I've done is hand the dealership a check for $1000 and initialled a configuration matching the car I want. I've signed nothing halfway official looking indicating that we've agreed on pricing (though we supposedly have). All I have is a very back-of-a-napkin document with several scratched out prices, trade-in values, etc. and then a formula with the pricing and trade-in value to which we agreed circled and initialed. I'm told the check will not be deposited unless and until the car comes in and I decide to apply it towards the purchase. After being told that if I placed an order I'd receive a production number and lock in the currently available incentive finance rate, I was told today that the production number may not be available until the car goes into production and that I'd not be able to lock in financing until I take delivery. I was only able to get a gentlemens agreement that if I were unable to get similar financing when the car came in I'd have the option of taking back my deposit and cancelling the purchase.

Am I being cynical in thinking there may be some shenanigans afoot? It just doesn't feel very official at this point.
Yeah, that's not exactly correct. You'll get a production number as soon as the dealer has an available slot. It could sit waiting for days, weeks, or months (I.e. I had a production number for 5 months before it entered the build process). You can "lock" with BMWFS at any time.. East coast lock will last 60 days, west coast is 90 days. All you have to do is fill out a credit app on bmwusa.com, pick the dealer you want to work with and submit.

If you want to take advantage of any of the Demeber incentives, you'll want to lock now.

If I were a betting man, it reads like the dealer may not have any slots open right now.... Are they a smaller dealership?

If you want to p/u at the Performance Center in S.C. or a dealer outside of TX, contact one of the sponsors for a no nonsense deal.

Good luck!

Regards,
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2013, 05:09 PM
skndchanzs skndchanzs is offline
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Ummm.....this sounds very familiar. I joined this forum AFTER I had ordered my x1. Having never ordered a car before, I went over exactly what I wanted and checked with several dealers until I found one that I was comfortable with. I ended up with an order sheet that had MSRPs on it and a written notation that said: Final sales price to be negotiated at time of delivery. I signed on the dotted line and initialed next to that statement and handed over a $1,000 check (completely refundable). The car went into production five days later and I got my number.

When the car arrived two months later I quickly discovered that the dealer wasn't really willing to negotiate the price. I was able to get them down by $500 but by that time I had become a forum member and wanted a better deal. The dealer reminded me that I didn't have to take delivery of the car, but after 'watching' it go through the build process and shipping route, I was kind of attached to it already. Plus she was gorgeous!

I reminded the dealer that not a lot of people would like how the car was configured: no line, just the Ultimate and Lighting packages. After two hours I got $750 off of MSRP plus window tinting, paint protection, snow chains, phone cradle, and floor mats that on paper totaled $2,000 but we all know it was much less than that.

Lesson learned!

Good luck with your purchase!

DeeDee

Last edited by skndchanzs; 12-23-2013 at 05:12 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2013, 07:24 PM
Moe 92 Moe 92 is offline
Steve In Texas
Location: Georgetown, TX
 
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Smile

Yes, I've taken enough b-law through the years to be well aware that I do not have an enforceable contract at this point. On the other hand, neither does the dealership. I kind of think they may be rolling the dice that BMW offers a larger discount incentive by the time I take delivery. Plan B from their perspective being renegotiating at time of delivery claiming I was confused when the order was placed (and by that time emotionally invested in that car and/or in a hurry). Plan C being just taking the car into inventory if I walk away.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. Either way, I'm willing to take the chance they'll pull the rug out from under me because I'm in no hurry and (to the extent it holds up) I feel like I got about as good a deal as I could hope for.

Time will tell, I suppose. I'll update as things develop..

Last edited by Moe 92; 12-23-2013 at 07:30 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2013, 07:28 PM
Moe 92 Moe 92 is offline
Steve In Texas
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Oh, and yes we're talking about a relatively low-volume dealership, so some of this may very well be due to an allocation issue they don't want to discuss.
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2013, 07:32 PM
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stonex1 stonex1 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe 92 View Post
Am I being cynical in thinking there may be some shenanigans afoot? It just doesn't feel very official at this point.
I wouldn't worry, you've given a deposit and they've made a customer willing to pay.
Enjoy the hype waiting for your car. Check out the forum for progress on build status and marine traffic so you can track your car.

Great color and line combo!
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  #8  
Old 12-23-2013, 07:45 PM
Moe 92 Moe 92 is offline
Steve In Texas
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[double post]

Last edited by Moe 92; 12-23-2013 at 07:48 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-24-2013, 01:14 AM
jayb328i jayb328i is offline
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When the car comes in, play hard-ball. If they want one penny more than the(handshake) Agreement, be ready to walk. When they see they did not scare you--they perhaps will honor the handshake. Otherwise walk. I think they will call you on the phone if you walk out for the original price.
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2013, 01:29 AM
Moe 92 Moe 92 is offline
Steve In Texas
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I'm on the same page, Jay. I'm fairly certain there is still some arguing ahead and, in their mind, some opportunity for negotiation. In the end, they'll either honor their commitment or they will not, and you're spot on that I'll absolutely walk away in the latter case. Pity that, because being prepared for that possibility is going to take away from the experience of tracking progress, etc.
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Old 12-24-2013, 03:43 AM
jayb328i jayb328i is offline
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This has nothing to do with BMW. It is what the "profession" of salesmanship is all about, and could happen in any dealership, regardless of brand.
What would I do---if they ask for more money, I would counter offer with an amount $2000 under the original price. They would not expect that, and it will take them off of their script of how to squeeze you. Perhaps you will save the sale, although I do not like to deal with people on this level--plus would not trust them for service (which is not a problem for me since I do all of my own).
Keep in mind that most dealerships would not want to loose you at this point, since the servicing of the car is so lucrative.
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Old 12-24-2013, 04:15 AM
mscottc mscottc is offline
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A better way to order the car, any car, is to state before and after the test drive "I"m not yet ready to buy, but this is at the top of my list." Then do all your research online for the various options and pricing, configure the car yourself. There are plenty of sites that give out "invoice" pricing vs "msrp" pricing. Print out the fully configured msrp and invoice pricing on the car you want. Walk/drive/email that around to multiple dealers. You'll get the best price possible that way. I bought a car just like that several years ago, and the dealer I wanted to buy from came in over a thousand dollars higher than other dealers. I said to the saleswoman, I really do want to buy from you, but not for a thousand dollars more." After conferring with her manager, she beat the other dealers. This only works of course if you are speccing out a car to order.
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Old 12-24-2013, 04:52 AM
cwickberg cwickberg is online now
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Re: Just Placed My Order!

It is sad to see that the OP already has concerns about the deal but is still willing to go along with it...

Suggest you go back, negotiate the final deal now or get you deposit back and then try and start the process again...with another dealer.don't worry about the local service aspect...they will still service your car.

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  #14  
Old 12-24-2013, 05:32 AM
mullini mullini is offline
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When I ordered by X1 over a year ago, I got the order sheet but also the manager initialed the negotiated price. Several weeks later the X1 comes in, the CA and I take it out for a short ride, and I head to Finance office. Guy is all cheerful and informative, then he hands me paperwork to sign and first thing I see - price is MSRP.

So I whip out my order sheet with the initialed price. He looks astounded, says no one told him, goes to double check, and comes back still embarrassed to apologize.

If price really matters to you, I would simply call the CA and say,"I want to negotiate price now. if we can't reach a deal that works for both of us, I'd like my deposit back, and good luck with that car, because I won't be buying it."

Happy holidays and all that.
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:56 AM
Moe 92 Moe 92 is offline
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Thanks all for the advice, folks. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I have fully (and quite successfully, I believe) negotiated the price and terms. I've got the order sheet (which, yes, only shows MSRP - there is no field for negotiated pricing), and I've got a note with the agreed basic terms initialed by me, the salesperson, and the sales manager. It sounds like, based on a couple of the other posts, this situation is not unheard of when special ordering a BMW in the modern world. I also watched and helped work through the wording as the salesman documented the order in his CRM software.

I'd feel better, however, with a formal contract memorializing the terms - maybe a reason for concern, maybe not. I'm not worried about being taken advantage of - they'll either honor the deal or lose the sale. Pretty simple. There will be no further (successful) negotiation. I was just trying to point out that I believe I'd enjoy the anticipation during the build process a bit more without this degree of uncertainty and feeling like I'm going to have to be prepared to walk away if necessary.
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Old 12-24-2013, 06:35 AM
mullini mullini is offline
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Ah, I see - you're set, I would think. You don't need a formal contract. I don't think it's even possible (or wise) to formalize the contract until the vehicle is at the dealership. Just hold onto that initialed price sheet when you get to the finance office and enjoy your X1!
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Old 12-24-2013, 06:56 AM
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Did you get down to an out the door price with your "unofficial" documents?
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  #18  
Old 12-24-2013, 07:07 AM
Gort Gort is offline
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With my X1-35i order, there was an X1 lease special going. We did the build-out and got the total sticker. The sales guy came back and told me the monthly payment and amount due at delivery. Both were very close to what I wanted. He told me me if the rates went up, I would be protected at the same rate, and if they went down I would get the new lower rate. (In fact they did go down again while the X1 was in production and I got the new lower rate.)

I only had to give them a $500 check and I had a production number in 3 days. The vehicle was delivered just under 6 weeks from the date of placing the order. I love the X1-35i and am happy with deal as well.
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:11 AM
Moe 92 Moe 92 is offline
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It isn't phrased specifically "out the door", but it is a specific price for a specific configuration with "no dealer fees" explicitly agreed (and bs such as "doc fees", "temp tag fees", and "VIT fees" specifically mentioned as examples of such fees) plus tt&l in the terms. I've done my research and know the tt&l amounts already so I'll catch it if they try to pull a fast one. I suspect that will happen indeed happen during the business mgr stage (always happens even when I've purchased a car from dealer stock), but I'll catch it and make them correct it if/when they try that.

The issue of the bs dealer fees along with honoring the trade in value we agreed are the two areas I'm anticipating potential shenanigans and why I would have preferred and expected a more formal special order agreement. However, so far it appears my experience is consistent with others who've placed orders, and that actually makes me feel a lot more confident I'll not be jacked around any worse than the usual shell game in the business managers office.
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:55 AM
cwickberg cwickberg is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe 92 View Post
I'd feel better, however, with a formal contract memorializing the terms - maybe a reason for concern, maybe not. I'm not worried about being taken advantage of - they'll either honor the deal or lose the sale. Pretty simple. There will be no further (successful) negotiation. I was just trying to point out that I believe I'd enjoy the anticipation during the build process a bit more without this degree of uncertainty and feeling like I'm going to have to be prepared to walk away if necessary.
If you think this is all you need, well...

Not for me...

If you think you can trust a car dealer or CA or General manager, well...

Not me...

If you think that after 4, 6, 8 weeks of wanting and waiting for your car, you will be prepared to walk away, well...

Not for me...

But good luck with your deal, sale, order, build or whatever you want to call it.

When I got my X1, it was not done until the contract was signed by both parties...

If you have agreement, consideration ( your deposit) and all is in writing, why can't you get the signatures on a contract? Draw one up yourself...very simple...

At the very least, i would get something in writing once you have a VIN and verify that everything you want is on the car...At least this way you are not over a barrel when you go and pick it up...

anyway, Merry Christmas!
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  #21  
Old 12-24-2013, 11:51 AM
CHSBoater CHSBoater is offline
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Both of my cars were ordered much like you described. Build the car in the dealers system, print out the vehicle inquiry report showing invoice and MSRP, bunch of numbers adding this and subtracting that leading to a final price in the sales managers handwriting on the second sheet of the vehicle inquiry report. Done deal. Price on delivery was as stated.

If your dealer has a good reputation, I wouldn't worry about it and just enjoy the process.
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:33 PM
Moe 92 Moe 92 is offline
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Well, I do thank everyone for their thoughts and input. I actually agree with most of what you're saying, cwickberg, but I think the process probably is what it is (seems to be pretty consistent among those who've special ordered, and I've not heard yet of nightmares other than when there was no pricing agreement when placing the order (and even that one worked out ok). I think my best bet for the deal going through as planned is to let it happen and make them stick to it by saving the signed deal sheet, holding them to it when I take delivery, and being prepared to walk if they refuse. That is one departure for me personally from what you said: I absolutely could and would walk away from the car if it came to that. If you're not, you're on the money that the current special order process is not for you.

But, I'm getting more comfortable that everything will be fine. Seems like BMW should require a more formal special order agreement. Not having such a document initially made me uneasy and from the sounds of things, may keep some others from pursuing a special order at all.
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Old 12-24-2013, 03:55 PM
mscottc mscottc is offline
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You know, this could be a state by state thing. In every car I've bought in New Jersey, I've always walked away from the final negotiation, whether buying off the lot, or ordering from the factory, with a long form specifying everything out about the options and the price, as well as the trade-in if that was part of the negotiation. The only thing not completely specified are the government fees. Only as I see that being filled out have I been asked for a deposit. And that form becomes binding. On delivery, a revised version of that form is filled out with all the corrected information, but other than the fees, I've not had it change.
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:20 PM
jayb328i jayb328i is offline
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It is basic contract law. All the detail, and the elements should be listed in the Contract, ALL. It should be the final cost, clearly stated. Short of that, it is not a Contract due to open items that need to be discussed and settled in the future. I never experienced this with any car I purchased from a Dealer---and would not allow that to happen. If they promised me a favorable deal that I agree with, the promise is as good as what they put in writing SIGNED by the authorized person. There are so many last minute add-on that they can hit one with IF it is not a final signed agreement.
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:44 AM
mullini mullini is offline
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I think two different things are being discussed. The purchase contract is a legal doc and will have all the numbers broken out. But there can be no purchase contract until the vehicle is at the dealership and you are there to buy it and drive it off. When you order the car, you should get the complete order details and something on paper with your negotiated terms/price. That doc is not binding, it's true. But a reputable dealer - and an honest customer - will treat it as such. Now some dealers may not be so reputable, and some customers may find a better deal at the last moment and tell the original dealer "meet this new price or I walk." Or there may be other reasons why the customer walks away.

But you want that paper. When I ordered and weeks later went to buy my X1 at Beverly Hills BMW, I had that paper. I went into the finance office, chat chat chat, smile smile smile, and then the long yellow gets handed over. I check the numbers, and the sales price is - MSRP. I whip out my signed order form with the negotiated price. Embarrassment for finance guy, and great relief for me.

My sister just bought a new Subaru, and we hadn't expected to buy that afternoon. But it's year-end and they wanted a sale, so they offered her invoice on the new hybrid Crosstrek. She had to get to work so finance was rushed. I never looked at the numbers, and I don't think she did either. Later she called me in a panic because the long form confused her. I looked it over and it was fine, the invoice price was there, etc. But I cursed myself after the BMW experience for 1) not making the salesperson write the negotiated price on paper for us to take to the finance office and 2) not making sure my sister looked carefully at the numbers on the contract before signing.

Our friends in other countries - is the car buying routine the same where you are?
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