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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 12-30-2013, 04:57 PM
nardoyno nardoyno is offline
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Mein Auto: 2007 E70 X5 4.8i
Fails to start when cold

My vehicle is a 2007 X5 4.8i. It has a bizarre problem that my mechanic has yet to resolve. When the outside temperature drops below ~36F, the car will not start. The car cranks and cranks and cranks but fails to start. After repeating the process for 5-6 times the car will intermittently try to start but idle rough and die. If I continue repeating the process 5-10 minutes, sometimes the car will start and run perfect. The colder the temperature the worse the problem. In warm temperatures the vehicle has no problem starting or running at all. Mechanic replaced the fuel pump and the cam shaft position indicator and neither had any effect on the problem.

Car is utterly useless to me until this problem is resolved. I have seen many similar posts with same problem on other BMW models but no resolutions.

Any help would be appreciated!
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  #2  
Old 12-30-2013, 09:27 PM
ard ard is online now
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Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
New battery?

As the voltage supply to various systems fluctuates you can get spurious errors from all sorts of sensors. You may have read a few stories where dealers chase all sorts of errors and just replace parts left and right... $$$$$...what caused them to replace cps and fuel pump? single errors?

Are you using a mechanic with a full BMW diagnostic system????????
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  #3  
Old 12-30-2013, 10:44 PM
Brian425 Brian425 is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW X5 50i
Fails to start when cold

A battery seems to be a common cause for many gremlins on the X5.

If it sensitive to the ambient temperature, I would check the coolant sensor. It may be bad and giving you a very wrong fuel mixture.

I know that in older cars, they worked on just resistance. You could unplug the wires from the thermostat housing and jump them across with a wire. If it started fine, the sensor was bad.

This is just a guess based on experience with older technology.


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  #4  
Old 12-31-2013, 08:35 AM
nardoyno nardoyno is offline
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Mein Auto: 2007 E70 X5 4.8i
I'm not sure what diagnostic tools the mechanic has at his disposal. Its a big shop though with many import cars being serviced as well as American made vehicles. I gave him the green light to replace the battery if it was old. Apparently it is a 3 years old, but tests good. I really will be surprised if that is the problem but when he exhausts all other options I guess we will replace the battery.

About 6 weeks ago when it got really cold for the first time this year the car wouldn't start and after repeated attempts started but idled rough with a check engine light. They worked on it and got it running again by replacing the CPS. Not sure why the CPS suddenly decided to fail but it had nothing to do with the Cold Start symptoms because that problem continued to persist. The mechanic recommended we replace the fuel pump and seamed confident that this was the problem with cold starts. Unfortunately the weather warmed up and he could not verify the repair though. Needless to say, the next time the temperature dropped the vehicle would not start again. This time when it did finally start, I drove 20 miles and then lost all electrical power. Called a wrecker, he arrived and to my surprise jumped the car off. I thne drove another 20 miles home with no warnings or system failures. Next morning weather was cold, car would not start again. Waited for the sun to warm it up a bit and car started first time. Drove to work with no warnings and then lost all power again and could not restart. Towed it to my mechanic and there it remains for 2 weeks and we still are no smarter on the problem.
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  #5  
Old 01-01-2014, 08:41 AM
qmafia qmafia is offline
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I am here in chicago and I experienced the non starting issue last night (It cranked for good 20 secs without staring and than after couple tries it just started).... not sure what it is, but my guess is the battery. I am going to give it few more weeks to see if its a one time issue or going to be an ongoing problem..... Let me know what you find out about your issue.
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2014, 10:36 AM
Brian425 Brian425 is offline
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Fails to start when cold

Qmafia, I would start at the fuel rail. After the vehicle sits overnight, check the fuel pressure. Anything below 50-60 psi would make me concerned.

From there, check the fuel pump, replace the fuel filter if it has more than 15-20k miles on it. A clogged fuel filter can contribute to a fuel pump failing.

I would work on getting this fixed now. It will only get worse and leave you stuck one day.


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  #7  
Old 01-02-2014, 05:14 AM
4Bimmers 4Bimmers is offline
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Before replacing battery just simply jump it when cold and see if it cures it.
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  #8  
Old 01-02-2014, 09:12 AM
qmafia qmafia is offline
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Here is what i found on Youtube... seems like lot of people having this issue and its caused by a faulty relay!

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  #9  
Old 01-05-2014, 08:48 AM
qmafia qmafia is offline
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Ok so i went to the dealer yesterday to pick up the Relay but after speaking to them they were telling me it could be the Costco Gas i was using....he said even though its 93 Octane they use a lot of ethanol in their mixture and that attracts moisture in the winter. So now i am going to try out the shell gas and see how it goes and if it makes any difference.
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  #10  
Old 01-05-2014, 09:08 AM
Brian425 Brian425 is offline
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Fails to start when cold

Qmafia,
You really need to diagnose the issue.

You can test the relay be putting 12v on the low voltage side. You will hear/feel it switch.

Check the fuel pressure at the rail after it has sat over night.

You may get lucky guessing the cause or you may spend more time and money. If you do not fix it, there is a good chance it will leave you stuck one day.


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  #11  
Old 01-08-2014, 11:53 AM
nardoyno nardoyno is offline
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Mein Auto: 2007 E70 X5 4.8i
Failure to start when Temperature below <32F

PROBLEM:

The problem manifested itself as an occasional (once a week, usually on cold mornings) loss of time by the on-board computer and difficulty to start when outside temperatures were below 32F. However, the battery health was still sufficient to turn over the engine quickly for 10-15 minutes, but the vehicle mysteriously failed to start. A third problem began to occur shortly after these issues, where by, the vehicle would start and drive and then 20-30 minutes into the trip every electrical system in the vehicle would begin reporting failures. I refer to this as the "Apollo 13 syndrome" in another post. Anyway, as it turns out, a leaking valve cover gasket had caused the alternator to become completely saturated in motor oil. The prolonged exposure to motor oil had then compromised the alternator winding-wire coating which lead to an intermittent short circuit which when shorted and not running would slowly drain the battery. Later the short circuit condition lead to a complete loss of power when it would cut out during operation causing the vehicle to operate on battery power alone until the battery voltage dropped below the minimum threshold of operation of other critical on-board computer systems such as the ECU, ABS, ATM which would then start dropping out and rebooting and creating general havoc with the vehicle as it tried to keep operating. Apparently the stupid SW engineers who developed the E70 code failed to see the importance of detecting and registering a failed alternator condition to the vehicle operator. Instead they prefer to just continue on obliviously until various systems begin arbitrarily failing.

SUMMARY:

Cold start issue was traced to the battery by placing a charger on the car overnight and then removing it the next morning before attempting to start with the outside temperature at 28F.

Alternator problem worsened causing complete loss of power but could not be successfully diagnosed without a road trip while monitoring the battery voltage. It would work fine int he shop and only fail after 10-15 minutes on the road.

Leaky valve cover was determined to be the root cause of all the problems after tearing down the vehicle to remove the alternator and discovering why it had prematurely failed. Covered in oil.

CONCLUSION:

Not impressed with BMW or the E70. I may rid myself of the vehicle after this. It;s my 2nd X5. Previous 2001 model was a delight to own, other than nagging issues with simple electro-mechanical systems in the door locks and windows. The E70 on the other hand, has much bigger issues I think. Anyway, I am an electrical engineer with 20 years experience designing embedded computer systems and that is my opinion on the E70.

Last edited by nardoyno; 01-08-2014 at 11:56 AM.
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2014, 12:59 PM
Masoe Masoe is offline
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Doesn't Start in Cold FIX (Fuel Pump Relay)

This is what I posted on another thread. I'm sorry that I do NOT know how to insert links. (someone can help me for next time :-))

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masoe View Post

OK, here are the documents from my FIX. Pages 1 & 2 are from the initial service call. Pages 3 & 4 are the FIX. I included ALL of the pages so that you can see what they did to get to the problem and what they replaced in the process. On PAGE 4 I circled the Fuel Pump Relay that they replaced to fix it. You can also see that it happened when it got cold outside (below 32 degrees) and once they fixed the issue it DID start at 17 degrees and I have not had a problem since. I hope this helps!!
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2012 750Li, Carbon Black Metallic/Oyster&Black, M Sport (Current)
2008 X5 4.8 (Sport), Platinum Bronze Metallic/Tobacco&Black (Current)
2006 750i, Sapphire Black Metallic/Black
2002 745i, Sapphire Black Metallic/Beige
2002 530i (5 speed), Sapphire Black Metallic/Black

Last edited by Masoe; 01-08-2014 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Added Title
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2014, 01:43 PM
PAX5 PAX5 is offline
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The complaint seems to come from pre-LCI (2007 - 2010) owners with 4.8i engines.

Are others experiencing the same problem?
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  #14  
Old 01-09-2014, 03:20 PM
qmafia qmafia is offline
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My issue has been resolved after replacing the $18 relay.
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  #15  
Old 01-09-2014, 04:02 PM
xx xx is offline
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What is the part number of that relay? thanks.
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  #16  
Old 01-09-2014, 04:26 PM
Masoe Masoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qmafia View Post
My issue has been resolved after replacing the $18 relay.
Fuel Pump Relay??
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2012 750Li, Carbon Black Metallic/Oyster&Black, M Sport (Current)
2008 X5 4.8 (Sport), Platinum Bronze Metallic/Tobacco&Black (Current)
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2002 745i, Sapphire Black Metallic/Beige
2002 530i (5 speed), Sapphire Black Metallic/Black
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2014, 04:31 PM
Masoe Masoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xx View Post
What is the part number of that relay? thanks.
The only one that I show on my work order is:
61 36 8 373 700
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2012 750Li, Carbon Black Metallic/Oyster&Black, M Sport (Current)
2008 X5 4.8 (Sport), Platinum Bronze Metallic/Tobacco&Black (Current)
2006 750i, Sapphire Black Metallic/Black
2002 745i, Sapphire Black Metallic/Beige
2002 530i (5 speed), Sapphire Black Metallic/Black
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2014, 07:22 PM
xx xx is offline
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thank you Masoe. A search using the part number you provided shows it as a relay.
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2014, 07:30 PM
Masoe Masoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xx View Post
thank you Masoe. A search using the part number you provided shows it as a relay.
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2008 X5 4.8 (Sport), Platinum Bronze Metallic/Tobacco&Black (Current)
2006 750i, Sapphire Black Metallic/Black
2002 745i, Sapphire Black Metallic/Beige
2002 530i (5 speed), Sapphire Black Metallic/Black
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  #20  
Old 01-14-2014, 09:09 AM
nardoyno nardoyno is offline
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In the middle of trying to get this issue resolved I had an alternator go out. Valve cover gasket failed and saturated the alternator with oil which apparently compromised some of the insulators and caused an intermittent short circuit failure which would drain the battery down over night as well as cause the alternator to stop working about 5 minutes into a road trip. Anyway, these problems were corrected and a new battery thrown at it as well since the one I had was 3 years old. Anyway, unsurprisingly this did not fix the cold start issue. First cool morning 38F and today it would not start again until 10 minutes of cranking. Drove to work and at lunch even at 50F it hesitated to start and rough idled a few times. 3rd attempt and it started right up. I drove straight to the dealer and purchased a $17 fuel pump relay. Installed it and will see if that hopefully fixes this problem. I am an electrical engineer and if this fixes the problem I will disassemble the relay and determine precisely what has failed and possibly speculate to why this is occurring.
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  #21  
Old 01-24-2014, 07:43 PM
kldriver kldriver is offline
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Where did you purchase the fuel pump relay?


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  #22  
Old 01-24-2014, 08:16 PM
xx xx is offline
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I found that part number on ebay. There are actually a few brands of relays with the same part number. They are made by Tyco, Siemens and Vemo (maybe more brands, just look closely at the sellers' photos). So I thought I should look at mine and just don't buy the same brand!! I was going to try a new relay because a local dealer couldn't figure what to change/fix for a slow start (did all types of diagnostics and tests, even battery full-load tests).

Anyways I looked in the trunk and I don't have that green relay! I have a black relay nearby in the middle of the fuse block (maybe the green relay is for a 50i or something). There went my idea of buying a new relay to DIY it.

Then a week later (last week) I got an "engine malfunction... reduced power" on the screen while out of town. Drove it to the nearest dealer and left it there. As I described a slow starting issue recently, the SA took notes. The next day after diagnosing it, the SA called to say the VANOS is shot, and the description of "slow to start" matches a VANOS and start-up timing problem. Ouch. (under full warranty - no engine mods)
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  #23  
Old 01-25-2014, 06:36 AM
cravin cravin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xx View Post
I found that part number on ebay. There are actually a few brands of relays with the same part number. They are made by Tyco, Siemens and Vemo (maybe more brands, just look closely at the sellers' photos). So I thought I should look at mine and just don't buy the same brand!! I was going to try a new relay because a local dealer couldn't figure what to change/fix for a slow start (did all types of diagnostics and tests, even battery full-load tests).

Anyways I looked in the trunk and I don't have that green relay! I have a black relay nearby in the middle of the fuse block (maybe the green relay is for a 50i or something). There went my idea of buying a new relay to DIY it.

Then a week later (last week) I got an "engine malfunction... reduced power" on the screen while out of town. Drove it to the nearest dealer and left it there. As I described a slow starting issue recently, the SA took notes. The next day after diagnosing it, the SA called to say the VANOS is shot, and the description of "slow to start" matches a VANOS and start-up timing problem. Ouch. (under full warranty - no engine mods)
It's there. Open the passenger side panel in trunk. Lift the felt flap and it's in the bottom right hand corner. It's about an inch sized light green cube held in by clips on both sides.
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  #24  
Old 01-25-2014, 11:28 AM
xx xx is offline
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I lifted the flap (can see everything and all the fuses and a different/black relay in the fuse block... but not a green relay at the lower area). oh well...
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  #25  
Old 01-25-2014, 11:34 AM
cravin cravin is offline
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Maybe yours has been replaced with a different color relay. In the bottom right corner, you'll see a one inch by one inch cube. On the side facing you, it's held in place with a u shaped clip. If you remove the relay, it has 5 flat prongs to it.
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