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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 01-01-2014, 03:04 PM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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2007 335i Oil Cooler Question

I read a thread about some 335i not having an oil cooler, well Mine has one, it is located on the front passenger side innner fender well, in front of the tire. You can see some louvers in the plastic cover where its bolted. I read in one post about there being an oil cooler thermostat in the system, If there is, Is it located in the oil line to the cooler? What temperature is the thermostat set to open at? I have seen an aftermarket cooler thats larger, but if the thermostat is set at 230F ( which my temperature gauge runs at) then I see no reason to put in a larger cooler. Why not just change the thermostat to a lower temperature or take it out all together?

well I searched the Bentley manuals and of course I cannot find anything on the system

any thoughts? Cal?
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2014, 05:08 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is online now
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There is a mechanical thermostat built into the base of the oil filter housing, and it diverts oil to the cooler whenever the temperature is above 240F.

I don't have a cooler in mine, and, excluding chasing DSX up the side of Mt. Washington one time, have never seen the temperature above 240F. Mine also runs at a typical 230F.

Why not take it out? Because you want the engine to run as hot as possible for efficiency. Take the thermostat out and you'll just end up pumping heat from the engine to the atmosphere for no good purpose.
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2014, 07:33 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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The oil cooler is overkill for anything except for racetracks.

Part #9: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...71&hg=11&fg=30
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Old 01-02-2014, 11:04 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
The oil cooler is overkill for anything except for racetracks.

Part #9: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...71&hg=11&fg=30
Ok if thats your reply then why does BMW put oil coolers on them?

If they leave out the oil dip stick to save money and a spare tire, why would they put an oil cooler on it if its useless????
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Old 01-02-2014, 11:06 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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So what is the optimal oil Temperature that oil should run at?

250F seems High to me

and can you put a lower rated oil T-stat in or take it out all together?
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Old 01-02-2014, 11:34 AM
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I don't think the stock oil cooler is adequate, at least on cars w/ automatic transmissions. I've flogged my car on mountain roads and watched the gauge go higher than the ~240F it normally hovers at in typical driving. This is above the thermostat opening temperature. If the oil cooler were large enough I would think the temperature wouldn't go much higher.

BTW, this isn't an endorsement but Burger Motorsports makes an oil cooler thermostat bypass so the system runs "open" all the time. If you track your car this might not be a bad idea.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
Ok if thats your reply then why does BMW put oil coolers on them?

If they leave out the oil dip stick to save money and a spare tire, why would they put an oil cooler on it if its useless????
"Overkill" is not the same as "useless." The engineers take into consideration how the typical usage profile changes based on how the buyer configures the car. When you tick all the "go-fast" options (sport package, summer tires, increased speed limiter), it implies the car will be pushed harder than average, in which case the basic cooling configuration is inadequate and you get the auxiliary cooler(s).

Why bother, given the cost? BMW still take pride in the cars being track-ready right off the showroom floor. As long as enough customers do that, BMW will design stock vehicles to handle the abuse without having a meltdown.

(Interesting fact: A while back, BMW NA (informally) asked the NJ BMW CCA to provide data on which BMWs people were bringing to high-performance driving schools. They were quite interested to see what proportion were "new" vehicles (three years old or less). Draw your own conclusions.... )
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  #8  
Old 01-02-2014, 02:09 PM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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and still the question goes unanswered, what is the optimal oil temperature for oil to function properly?

is 250F ok, I know 300F is very bad for oil, and I also know too low oil temperature is not good either
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  #9  
Old 01-02-2014, 02:19 PM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK View Post
I don't think the stock oil cooler is adequate, at least on cars w/ automatic transmissions. I've flogged my car on mountain roads and watched the gauge go higher than the ~240F it normally hovers at in typical driving. This is above the thermostat opening temperature. If the oil cooler were large enough I would think the temperature wouldn't go much higher.

BTW, this isn't an endorsement but Burger Motorsports makes an oil cooler thermostat bypass so the system runs "open" all the time. If you track your car this might not be a bad idea.
thanks for the heads up, I am going to order one and will let you know the difference

but since I have an 07 I got to find out first what thermostat I have and its raining now
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  #10  
Old 01-02-2014, 03:48 PM
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I saw 280 on mine driving up some mountain passes in Germany and Switzerland, but they didn't put the oil cooler on until my car got back to the dealer. I definately don't think it's useless, 280 is too hot, oil starts to break down and excessive engine wear can take place at that temp.

Hondo I believe some charts I saw once showed optimal temp to be about 230-240, which is probably why they set the thermostat at 240.
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2014, 04:15 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i Driver View Post
I saw 280 on mine driving up some mountain passes in Germany and Switzerland, but they didn't put the oil cooler on until my car got back to the dealer. I definately don't think it's useless, 280 is too hot, oil starts to break down and excessive engine wear can take place at that temp.

Hondo I believe some charts I saw once showed optimal temp to be about 230-240, which is probably why they set the thermostat at 240.
thanks thats what I wanted to know
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2014, 01:14 PM
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I also drove mine on the Autobahn and it run close to 270F and when I got it back to the US I had BMW install the oil cooler and now seldom see temps above 255F.
Anyone that was in at the start of this model would know the oil cooler makes a big difference. Doubt me? Go back to the original posts in late 06 and 07 and see how many people posted their car going into limp mode without having the cooler.
That is when BMW agreed to put the cooler into our cars that had sport option...

OP you don't need anything else besides what you have unless you are going to track the car...
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:24 PM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
I also drove mine on the Autobahn and it run close to 270F and when I got it back to the US I had BMW install the oil cooler and now seldom see temps above 255F.
Anyone that was in at the start of this model would know the oil cooler makes a big difference. Doubt me? Go back to the original posts in late 06 and 07 and see how many people posted their car going into limp mode without having the cooler.
That is when BMW agreed to put the cooler into our cars that had sport option...

OP you don't need anything else besides what you have unless you are going to track the car...
I still think 250F is too High, I would like to see the oil temp around 225
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
I still think 250F is too High, I would like to see the oil temp around 225
Too cold. Efficiency of the engine will suffer significantly, and the various parts of the engine will not expand to their correct operating lengths.
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:32 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post
Too cold. Efficiency of the engine will suffer significantly, and the various parts of the engine will not expand to their correct operating lengths.
so is that your opinion, or is this a fact,
and if its a fact where is the information that proves it?


and how much expansion are you talking about and what parts?
when engines are built to plus or minus .002 there is not much room for expansion before things start locking up
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:29 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
so is that your opinion, or is this a fact,
and if its a fact where is the information that proves it?
That's a fact. My ChE program covered thermal efficiency of engines in sophomore thermodynamics (Fall, 1976). Google "Carnot efficiency".

This is why you occasionally see articles about people building ceramic engines that don't need cooling. They're trying to get the operating temperature way up to get the efficiency gains.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
and how much expansion are you talking about and what parts?
when engines are built to plus or minus .002 there is not much room for expansion before things start locking up
What parts? All of the moving ones.

There's a reason people say you should let your engine "warm up" before pushing it. You're giving all of the internal components the opportunity to reach their correct operating temperature and final operating dimensions.

Take a crankshaft. Assume a nominal length of 18" and assume it's constructed of steel. A typical steel will have a thermal expansion coefficient of .0000073 in/(in degF). I rolled out of the house yesterday morning (3 degF) and fired my car up. As I drove. the engine temperature climbed to 240 degF. The crankshaft grew (0.0000073*237*18 inches) = 0.03" in length. Everything fit into a bearing grew along with the crankshaft, and all of them also increased in diameter. The bearings also grew radially, tightening the internal and external channels.

You want to decrease the temperature rise 15 degF (240 down to 225). OK, you're going to decrease the 0.03" growth by 6% or so, meaning that the crankshaft is going to grow 0.002" less. That's equal to your proposed manufacturing tolerance above, and doesn't account for stacking of tolerances of individual parts.
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:39 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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well all I wanted is the facts and appears you have them and thats what I wanted to know

thanks for sharing your information,

only reason I asked in the first place was I never had an oil temperature gauge in a car, and the BMW has one so I got concerned at the oil temperature being around 250F,

sometimes its best not to know some things

great help!
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:00 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post
That's a fact. My ChE program covered thermal efficiency of engines in sophomore thermodynamics (Fall, 1976). Google "Carnot efficiency".

This is why you occasionally see articles about people building ceramic engines that don't need cooling. They're trying to get the operating temperature way up to get the efficiency gains.




What parts? All of the moving ones.

There's a reason people say you should let your engine "warm up" before pushing it. You're giving all of the internal components the opportunity to reach their correct operating temperature and final operating dimensions.

Take a crankshaft. Assume a nominal length of 18" and assume it's constructed of steel. A typical steel will have a thermal expansion coefficient of .0000073 in/(in degF). I rolled out of the house yesterday morning (3 degF) and fired my car up. As I drove. the engine temperature climbed to 240 degF. The crankshaft grew (0.0000073*237*18 inches) = 0.03" in length. Everything fit into a bearing grew along with the crankshaft, and all of them also increased in diameter. The bearings also grew radially, tightening the internal and external channels.

You want to decrease the temperature rise 15 degF (240 down to 225). OK, you're going to decrease the 0.03" growth by 6% or so, meaning that the crankshaft is going to grow 0.002" less. That's equal to your proposed manufacturing tolerance above, and doesn't account for stacking of tolerances of individual parts.
0.0000073 x 250 x 18 equals 0.0328
0.0000073 x 240 x 18 equals 0.0315
0.0000073 x 225 x 18 equals 0.0295

the difference between 225 degrees and 250 degrees is 0.003

for comparison a standard sheet of copy paper is 0.005 thick based on my micrometers

so we might be splitting hairs here

I am more concerned about oil life and oil breakdown at elevated temperatures
thats why I change oil at 7500 miles and not 15,000 like BMW suggest

In reality does it really matter? once the engine is blown and the car is 15 years old, no one will spend a bunch of money to repair them Like we did back in the 70's and 80's when you could actually do the work your self
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:01 AM
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Of course, in the "gap the plugs to the thickness of a paper match and gap the points to the thickness of the matchbook cover" days, we were all amazed if our cars made it to 100k miles. Still, I do my oil at 7500 miles as well, for just about the same reason.

I do miss being able to do a lot of it myself. Admittedly, there's a fair amount of "Why am I lying here in the driveway doing this sh*t at this point in my life?" involved, as opposed to being able to do it.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:22 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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I hear ya, I am at the point where I can afford to let someone do the oil and everything else, but sitting at the dealer for 2 hours plus driving across town 30 minutes each way seems like a waste of my time, but then seems like when I get my car back, something else goes wrong, coincidence?

not sure about that.

But thanks for the information, it was very informative
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