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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 01-01-2014, 09:31 PM
hman1 hman1 is offline
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xDrive and Black Ice

I drove about 125 miles on Black Ice this morning; 2011 328xi. I kept the car in 4th gear and stayed between 50 and 60 mph. I was in the northern most part of VT; close to Montreal and Burlington. All was good. The car handled the crap roads as advertised.

I'm still feeling the car out, and this was a good test. Xdrive was almost as good as Audi Quattro. Once I got south of the snow line, Stowe/Sugarbush, I was glad I had the BMW instead of the Audi. The BMW is unmatched on non-icey pavement.

In crap, I give the edge to the A4. In all else, there is no comparison. The BMW does everything you want it to do at any speed. It is a driver's car. The Audi always felt like a front driver no matter the conditions.
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2014, 05:00 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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Pretty much the same experience here. The best car I've ever had in snow is my 2004 Passat 4motion (same drivetrain as Quattro) when fitted with snow tires. My 335xi with snow tires comes in second, but beats anything else I've driven in garbage conditions.

Snow/ice tires make a major contribution to the effectiveness in any case.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:19 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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You drove 125 miles on "black ice"? While I have no argument with your general discussion I will advise you that you did not drive a mile on black ice. You have no idea what black ice is. The Bruins skate on white ice. Black ice is so slippery that the road crown alone is all it takes to slide you off the road, totally and completely out of control, ABS, TCS, and AWD to the contrary.
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:23 AM
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Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
You drove 125 miles on "black ice"? While I have no argument with your general discussion I will advise you that you did not drive a mile on black ice. You have no idea what black ice is. The Bruins skate on white ice. Black ice is so slippery that the road crown alone is all it takes to slide you off the road, totally and completely out of control, ABS, TCS, and AWD to the contrary.
This was pretty much my exact thought. A Teflon-covered roadway would be an improvement.

Icy roads for 125 miles? Sure. Black ice? 125 feet would be a noteworthy achievement without studded tires!
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Last edited by Zeichen311; 01-02-2014 at 07:24 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-02-2014, 07:53 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hman1 View Post
I drove about 125 miles on Black Ice this morning; 2011 328xi. I kept the car in 4th gear and stayed between 50 and 60 mph. I was in the northern most part of VT; close to Montreal and Burlington. All was good. The car handled the crap roads as advertised.

I'm still feeling the car out, and this was a good test. Xdrive was almost as good as Audi Quattro. Once I got south of the snow line, Stowe/Sugarbush, I was glad I had the BMW instead of the Audi. The BMW is unmatched on non-icey pavement.

In crap, I give the edge to the A4. In all else, there is no comparison. The BMW does everything you want it to do at any speed. It is a driver's car. The Audi always felt like a front driver no matter the conditions.

Dude! You are a Devil-may-care kind o'guy, living life on the ragged edge of performance and sanity's limit.

Black Ice? No snow tire or 4WD will avail if traction's lost! And....you discover after the fact. 50+ mph? HEROIC!
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  #6  
Old 01-02-2014, 01:17 PM
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rdkind62 rdkind62 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
You drove 125 miles on "black ice"? While I have no argument with your general discussion I will advise you that you did not drive a mile on black ice. You have no idea what black ice is. The Bruins skate on white ice. Black ice is so slippery that the road crown alone is all it takes to slide you off the road, totally and completely out of control, ABS, TCS, and AWD to the contrary.
Agree. I did a little driving on black ice last year and stopped out on an abandoned bit of road and got out, and just shutting the door was enough force to make it slide right off the crown of the road to the shoulder.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:20 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hman1 View Post
I drove about 125 miles on Black Ice this morning; 2011 328xi. I kept the car in 4th gear and stayed between 50 and 60 mph. I was in the northern most part of VT; close to Montreal and Burlington. All was good. The car handled the crap roads as advertised.

I'm still feeling the car out, and this was a good test. Xdrive was almost as good as Audi Quattro. Once I got south of the snow line, Stowe/Sugarbush, I was glad I had the BMW instead of the Audi. The BMW is unmatched on non-icey pavement.

In crap, I give the edge to the A4. In all else, there is no comparison. The BMW does everything you want it to do at any speed. It is a driver's car. The Audi always felt like a front driver no matter the conditions.
It appears you were driving way too fast for conditions.
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  #8  
Old 01-02-2014, 02:10 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Two important New England Winter Rules.

1. Beware of Black Ice.

2. Don't eat Yellow Snow.

CA
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  #9  
Old 01-02-2014, 04:01 PM
fb88 fb88 is offline
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My 330xi w/2013 new Conti DWS all season tires kick in ABS braking at 25mph....?? Need to go below 20mph... or do you put to gear 3 in sportshift?
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  #10  
Old 01-02-2014, 04:21 PM
f30jojo f30jojo is offline
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Originally Posted by fb88 View Post
My 330xi w/2013 new Conti DWS all season tires kick in ABS braking at 25mph....?? Need to go below 20mph... or do you put to gear 3 in sportshift?
wat?

anyway about the tires, I have DWS's on my 530 and they are great high speed tires for spring, summer and fall. On snow or cold conditions they are HORRIBLE...

whats this about 25mph? and 3rd hear sport???
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  #11  
Old 01-02-2014, 04:25 PM
ddeliber ddeliber is online now
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This is black ice:


Last edited by ddeliber; 01-02-2014 at 04:26 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-02-2014, 04:35 PM
ny325 ny325 is offline
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Driving over a small area of black ice is dangerous. However, driving on black ice for 125 miles is extremely dangerous.
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  #13  
Old 01-02-2014, 08:03 PM
techietaichi techietaichi is offline
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125 miles of "black ice"?! Someone call "Guiness" right now!
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  #14  
Old 01-02-2014, 08:22 PM
hman1 hman1 is offline
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OK...

The roads were a sheet of ice. I guess I don't know the difference. I've been driving to ski areas for 3 decades and this was almost as bad as it gets.

What's the difference between a road covered in a sheet of ice and a road covered in black ice? I'm not being facetious. Maybe I just don't know.

Either way, it was horrendous.

H
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  #15  
Old 01-02-2014, 09:29 PM
ptrcd003 ptrcd003 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fb88 View Post
My 330xi w/2013 new Conti DWS all season tires kick in ABS braking at 25mph....?? Need to go below 20mph... or do you put to gear 3 in sportshift?
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  #16  
Old 01-02-2014, 09:40 PM
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Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hman1 View Post
What's the difference between a road covered in a sheet of ice and a road covered in black ice? I'm not being facetious. Maybe I just don't know.
On roadways, that would be sense #3 of the AMS definition. The entry for glaze a/k/a verglas (for which "black ice" is a popular, if not always accurate, synonym) clarifies why it is such nasty stuff.

Basically, most roadway ice is somewhat soft or has considerable texture, due to entrained air bubbles, debris, snow, frozen slush and whatnot. Driving on this is hairy but often possible because enough irregularities exist to provide at least some traction.

Glaze is a layer of pure, hard, clear ice almost devoid of texture. The worst part is that because of the clarity of the ice layer, it looks almost exactly like ordinary, navigable wet pavement (hence the popular name). There is nothing for tires to bite and the pressure at the contact patch melts a microscopic layer of water, just like the blade of an ice skate. Hey presto, now you're a demonstration of Newtonian mechanics.
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Last edited by Zeichen311; 01-02-2014 at 09:54 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-02-2014, 09:52 PM
Bigrob126 Bigrob126 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hman1 View Post
OK...

The roads were a sheet of ice. I guess I don't know the difference. I've been driving to ski areas for 3 decades and this was almost as bad as it gets.

What's the difference between a road covered in a sheet of ice and a road covered in black ice? I'm not being facetious. Maybe I just don't know.

Either way, it was horrendous.

H
There IS no difference between black ice and white ice! Ice is ice, they call it black ice cause you can't see it due to the black color of the road....and no disrespect, but you were not driving on ice at all, but maybe a slushy, snowy, wet roadway. There is no way you could have stayed in any kind of control on a sheet of ice! Just the slightest input at all and you're outa there! Steering input......a touch of the gas....doesn't matter......just sayin
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:40 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hman1 View Post
The roads were a sheet of ice. I guess I don't know the difference. I've been driving to ski areas for 3 decades and this was almost as bad as it gets.

What's the difference between a road covered in a sheet of ice and a road covered in black ice? I'm not being facetious. Maybe I just don't know.

Either way, it was horrendous.

Congrats hman1 - you have qualified for 2014's Autocross Elfstedentocht!

Get German spiked ice racin' tires and "ready" your bad self....
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  #19  
Old 01-03-2014, 09:30 PM
hman1 hman1 is offline
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It was a sheet of ice for 125 miles! That makes me special. I am an ice driving champion!

Whoo hoo for me!

H
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