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  #1  
Old 01-09-2014, 10:52 AM
zeddy zeddy is offline
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New CPO warranty rules as of 1/1/2014?

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte.../warranty.aspx

Quote:
New, as of January 1, 2014, the BMW Certified Pre-Owned Protection Plan and the BMW Certified Pre-Owned Elite Protection Plan are not transferable from the original pre-owned vehicle owner or lessee to each subsequent owner or lessee unless the subsequent retail has been performed by an authorized BMW Center.
2 questions:

1. To confirm, this means that CPO only stays with the car if it is subsequently (after it was originally CPO'd and sold to the 2nd owner) sold by an authorized BMW center.
1a. example: lease return to Pacific BMW, Pacific BMW CPOs the car and sells to 2nd owner. Only way CPO remains on the car is if the 2nd owner trades the car into Pacific BMW (or another BMW dealership) and the car is then resold by the BMW dealership.
1b. does this mean that the BMW dealership must recertify CPO?

2. For cars that underwent the CPO process prior to 2014, will the CPO warranty still stay with the car regardless of ownership?
2a. example:
i. 2009 e82 purchased CPO from dealership in 2011. CPO warranty expires 2015 (4 years original warranty plus 2 years CPO extended). The car was thus "CPO'd" in 2011
ii. 2012 car is sold by 2nd owner (person who purchased it as CPO) to the 3rd owner via private party. Car is still CPO per BMW.
iii. 2014 car is sold by 3rd owner to 4th owner. Is the car still CPO? Does BMW automatically terminate the warranty?

My thoughts in defense of BMW regarding the new rule change: BMW has no control over what has happened to the car while under possession of the 2nd owner who has CPO. If the car is subsequently resold X times after it has been CPO'd, who knows what may have happened to the car that may impact the need to exercise the warranty.

My thoughts condemning BMW's new rule change: Pure money grab by BMW. CPO can only be purchased through a dealer going forward. Buyers who paid the premium for CPO and later have to sell the car get ZERO back on that premium. When purchasing an extended warranty for a car, the warranties are typically transferable and thus may have a "residual value", or refundable for the portion used. The CPO warranty is a one time down payment (or rather, premium to the purchase price) that no longer has a residual value as the 2nd owner gains nothing by informing potential buyers the car comes with a BMW warranty (because it no longer does).
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2014, 11:46 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeddy View Post
http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte.../warranty.aspxMy thoughts condemning BMW's new rule change: Pure money grab by BMW. CPO can only be purchased through a dealer going forward. Buyers who paid the premium for CPO and later have to sell the car get ZERO back on that premium.
Doesn't this actually hurt the value of BMW CPO cars? Granted this will likely turn into one of those "I didn't know that" fine print items, but for those in the know, wouldn't they generally be willing to pay less for a CPO because of this stipulation? This in effect hurts BMW and it's dealers? Higher selling prices and retained values actually benefit a brand more than the opposite.

I'm more inclined to think the change was brough about due to issues with claims after resales.
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  #3  
Old 01-09-2014, 01:40 PM
brosher brosher is offline
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Buying CPO cars from the second owner has always been a great deal. CPO buyers will certainly have to take a bigger depreciation hit selling before the end of the CPO warranty.
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2014, 09:47 AM
LivinSD LivinSD is offline
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Totally up to BMW how they want to handle it. But from my viewpoint, it's a good reason not to buy CPO and buy aftermarket warranty like route 66 instead, since most transfer to a new owner with just a $50 doc fee.
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:02 AM
Fespo276 Fespo276 is offline
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To be honest, I always thought it seemed odd that when I bought a CPO'd 335 from its "third" owner (a random Audi dealership who took it on trade from its second), I was able to drive to the nearest BMW dealership and get a bunch of "free" service and maintenance!! The Audi dealership did not advertise it as such, and I was not even aware it was a CPO when I bought it.

So, I was in essence four times removed from the original purchase, and was still able to extract from BMW thousands of dollars in free service. Just seemed like a deal that was a bit too good to be true, or sustainable by BMW over the long term.


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Last edited by Fespo276; 01-10-2014 at 10:03 AM.
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:33 AM
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Campfamily Campfamily is offline
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Be interesting to see if other manufacturers start doing this as well......if not, then the perceived value of a CPO BMW versus other Pre-Owned plans will go down significantly. I just bought a CPO Nissan last July, and the extended warranty is transferable to another owner should I sell the vehicle.

As far as the subsequent owners getting "free" stuff, that's not entirely true. Somebody paid for it, theoretically the original CPO owner who paid more for a car that included that benefit. Otherwise, wouldn't that person be entitled to a refund for the warranty and/or maintenance that isn't used? Also, as far as additional wear and tear of multiple owners, how is that any different than wear and tear from the original CPO owner? It sounds like the argument is that BMW needs to examine and re-certify the car when ownership changes, which doesn't make any sense. Shouldn't matter if 1 person or 10 people have owned the car, a warranty is a warranty. The only real cost when ownership changes is the paperwork transfer.

EDIT: originally typed this before I looked at the link on the BMW website, and upon subsequent investigation, saw that the CPO warranty is transferable from private seller to private seller, for a $200 fee, and a cert that the car has not been totalled. The prohibition seems to be only if the vehicle is sold to a dealer for subsequent resale; if that happens, the CPO doesn't transfer.

Also, appears that BMW now has two tiers of CPO, they've created a "CPO Elite" for vehicles under 15K miles.

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Last edited by Campfamily; 01-10-2014 at 10:40 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:31 AM
flaggrad00 flaggrad00 is offline
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Wow, can any dealers comment on this? Maybe not since its probably not a good idea to bash bmw on a public forum. I was mildly entertaining the idea of a CPO 335, but why would I pay the extra for a CPO when if i decide to sell it the CPO is non-transferable and basically worthless? I don't think they can retroactively change the CPO warranty on cars that have already been bought though. Not sure what BMW is thinking on this one, sooner or later even non-enthusiast buyers will catch on and the take rate for the CPO's will drop significantly.
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2014, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeddy View Post
http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte.../warranty.aspx



2 questions:

1. To confirm, this means that CPO only stays with the car if it is subsequently (after it was originally CPO'd and sold to the 2nd owner) sold by an authorized BMW center.
1a. example: lease return to Pacific BMW, Pacific BMW CPOs the car and sells to 2nd owner. Only way CPO remains on the car is if the 2nd owner trades the car into Pacific BMW (or another BMW dealership) and the car is then resold by the BMW dealership.
1b. does this mean that the BMW dealership must recertify CPO?

2. For cars that underwent the CPO process prior to 2014, will the CPO warranty still stay with the car regardless of ownership?
2a. example:
i. 2009 e82 purchased CPO from dealership in 2011. CPO warranty expires 2015 (4 years original warranty plus 2 years CPO extended). The car was thus "CPO'd" in 2011
ii. 2012 car is sold by 2nd owner (person who purchased it as CPO) to the 3rd owner via private party. Car is still CPO per BMW.
iii. 2014 car is sold by 3rd owner to 4th owner. Is the car still CPO? Does BMW automatically terminate the warranty?

My thoughts in defense of BMW regarding the new rule change: BMW has no control over what has happened to the car while under possession of the 2nd owner who has CPO. If the car is subsequently resold X times after it has been CPO'd, who knows what may have happened to the car that may impact the need to exercise the warranty.

My thoughts condemning BMW's new rule change: Pure money grab by BMW. CPO can only be purchased through a dealer going forward. Buyers who paid the premium for CPO and later have to sell the car get ZERO back on that premium. When purchasing an extended warranty for a car, the warranties are typically transferable and thus may have a "residual value", or refundable for the portion used. The CPO warranty is a one time down payment (or rather, premium to the purchase price) that no longer has a residual value as the 2nd owner gains nothing by informing potential buyers the car comes with a BMW warranty (because it no longer does).
In my opinion, seems like another sales tactic that BMW is using.
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2014, 12:48 PM
zeddy zeddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campfamily View Post

EDIT: originally typed this before I looked at the link on the BMW website, and upon subsequent investigation, saw that the CPO warranty is transferable from private seller to private seller, for a $200 fee, and a cert that the car has not been totalled. The prohibition seems to be only if the vehicle is sold to a dealer for subsequent resale; if that happens, the CPO doesn't transfer.

Also, appears that BMW now has two tiers of CPO, they've created a "CPO Elite" for vehicles under 15K miles.

Keith
Keith,

Good observation, it appears that they've edited the website and revised the language regarding CPO transferability. The quote in my original post was copied directly from the website, which now reads as follows:

Quote:
For Certified Pre-Owned vehicles retailed on or after January 1, 2014, the BMW Certified Pre-Owned Protection Plan and the BMW Certified Pre-Owned Elite Protection Plan are not transferable except within the BMW authorized dealer network or subject to the following condition:
The following condition references a Limited Warranty Transfer Application form, which allows the CPO to follow the car only in the following situations:

1. Private seller to private buyer
2. $200 warranty transfer fee PAYABLE TO BMW of NA (as you pointed out)
3. Notarized seller statement affirming the vehicle is CPO
4. Dealership participation is excluded
5. Buyer must complete transfer within 60 days of vehicle sale.

For cars that were CPO'd prior to 1/1/14, these rules don't apply, which makes sense. The new CPO rules, tiers, and now the CPO Wrap (where you can add an additional year of coverage, or increase your coverage to include audio/navigation aka Platinum warranty), it looks like BMW is becoming a full service warranty provider.

I wonder why they released the initial website language only to substantially revise it a few days later.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2014, 01:12 PM
Robert A Robert A is online now
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The "private to private" provision isn't so bad. I always sell my cars privately anyway. However, the $200 transfer fee is rather stiff.
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2014, 03:34 AM
brosher brosher is offline
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I'm glad they added the private party transfer. Setup this way it actually benefits the original CPO buyer who needs to sell. There will no longer be loads of CPO cars on eBay and at non BMW dealers to compete with.
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  #12  
Old 01-15-2014, 04:26 PM
iansanderson iansanderson is offline
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I see this as two things: First, cost savings. Second, a jab to non-BMW car dealerships receiving the marketing benefit of selling vehicles with BMW CPO's. It kind of rounds up CPO resales to only BMW dealerships and savvy private sellers.

$200 is still worth it for CPO by the way. My friend bought a used '05 530i from a Chevy dealership in 2010 and I discovered it had CPO *and* MP! The final bill after 2 visits was $6800.. and that was at WARRANTY rates!
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  #13  
Old 02-05-2014, 09:56 AM
PilotAce PilotAce is offline
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So... would any of you buy a previously CPO'd car on 5/2013, today, from a non-BMW dealership??
Again, this was 1st CPO'd prior to 1/1/2014. The used car dealership selling to me is advising me to bring it to a BMW service center the day I get the car (from out of state) and have them put MY name in the computer system for that VIN...

The three local BMW dealerships in the chicago suburban area says CPO follows the car, but who knows if the service & finance managers actually read any memos from BMWNA over the holidays.
BMW NA office is closed today due to weather conditions out East...
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2014, 10:19 AM
timsev timsev is offline
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One of the main reasons BMW has done this is to exclude 3rd party dealers from taking advantage of CPO cars. We run into this a lot and BMW's new guidelines are helping us tremendously. There are several used car dealers in my area that have a habit of buying CPO cars at auction, regardless of condition and prior maintenance. They tell their customers that the car has a warranty, and expect us to pick up the tab when the car breaks down. They are using CPO as a benefit, without doing any of the work. Customers get denied warranty work because the car is junk, and they get angry at BMWNA.

When a private seller or 3rd party dealer uses the term "Certified" and the car isn't up to standards, it cheapens the brand. Many people think CPO is just an extended warranty. They don't realize all the work that goes into a car qualifying to be certified.

The CPO Elite is meant for ex service loaner cars and demos. It closes the gap between new and CPO cars. It will really help out some of the bigger dealers that have tons of service loaners.
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2014, 10:22 AM
timsev timsev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotAce View Post
So... would any of you buy a previously CPO'd car on 5/2013, today, from a non-BMW dealership??
Again, this was 1st CPO'd prior to 1/1/2014. The used car dealership selling to me is advising me to bring it to a BMW service center the day I get the car (from out of state) and have them put MY name in the computer system for that VIN...

The three local BMW dealerships in the chicago suburban area says CPO follows the car, but who knows if the service & finance managers actually read any memos from BMWNA over the holidays.
BMW NA office is closed today due to weather conditions out East...
Call BMWNA and ask them. Don't take anyone's word for it.

Last edited by timsev; 02-05-2014 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:22 AM
PilotAce PilotAce is offline
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I just got off the phone with BMWNA and spoke with "Kyle". I asked generically about the situation, car was CPO'd 5/2013 at BMW dealership, sold to 2nd owner, then then sold back to a non-BMW dealership just 4 months later. Not advertised as CPO now, but wondering if the CPO status would stay if non-BMW dealer sells it to me now, in 2014.

I got a bit nervous when he asked me for the VIN (because they could then change it to non-CPO right then if they wished) and put me on hold to double check with someone....

After 2 minutes, he got back on the phone with me, saying because it was already CPO before the 1/1/14, it would stay CPO even though outside BMW network. Also told me that I should call them after I buy the car and have the ownership set for myself, etc. I suppose I'll need the title in hand, which will be mailed to me after the bank $$$ transfer occurs. Maybe the title will arrive before the car gets shipped from Texas, though!

In the end, 4 local dealerships say it's OK, but checking with BMWNA helps tip the scale in favor of buying this car. Though, I'm probably screwed after CPO expires in 9/2015....
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:08 PM
BmwLoosingFaith BmwLoosingFaith is offline
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Disappointed with the CPO

Can someone explain how headlight washer pumps blow off with the wind and it is not covered by warranty?

How about the hoses on top of the motor that are so brittle you touch them they crack. Yet dealer will charge you 900 for plastic hoses while they cover the injectors and both banks under warranty.

Last edited by BmwLoosingFaith; 08-24-2015 at 11:51 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-24-2015, 08:44 PM
Robert A Robert A is online now
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My first impression of your post is that you come across a little naive. BMWNA makes it very clear that the 6 year/100k mileage limit starts when the vehicle is delivered new.


Quote:
=BmwLoosingFaith;9252152Then I find out that the warranty was only to 100k or since the original owner purchased the car not when I purchased the car. Missing 3 years of coverage from what was explained to me at a different dealer when I bought it.
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Old 08-24-2015, 10:45 PM
Ninong Ninong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmwLoosingFaith View Post

Then I find out that the warranty was only to 100k or since the original owner purchased the car not when I purchased the car.
It starts with the in-service date, not the date the second owner buys the car. This is how all extended warranties work. And nobody offers a policy that goes beyond 100,000 miles.

Quote:
I was sold brake package upgrade coverage, wheel protection coverage as well as dent protection coverage. I get into all the details 3 months later and find out the wheel can't hold air for coverage, the brakes have been sqeaking and has been in for service 3 times and they won't replace rotors as not out of spec. Dent coverage was nonsense and not getting taken care of.
My only comment on this would be caveat emptor. How can you not understand what you're buying? You really need to read something before you buy it if you have any questions about the coverage.

Quote:
Then on to Bmw financial scam. I bought the car with a balance financed through Bmw financial services, I receive my statement every month and the normal payment amount was there but I decided to pay my payment from my 15th of the month check instead of my 1st of the month...
Whoa, dude! The due date is on the contract that you signed. You don't get to change it on your own. You have a 10-day grace period and a late charge is due on the 11th day. The late fee is spelled out in detail on your contract. This is not rocket science. That's how every bank contract works. You really need to read what you sign from now on.

Quote:
I told them not paying 27 late fees. They need to send me it in writing and show it on my statement before I pay. They have reported it 90 days late I find out as well, without any written notice?
Probably the reason you never received a late notice was because even though you paid the payment late (meaning past the grace period), they still received it before their computer is programmed to send out late notices. Regardless, you shouldn't have gotten yourself into a situation like that in the first place. Don't forget that everything is done by computers now, so no real live person was aware that you were accumulating late fees. Only if your loan went over-30 would it come to anyone's attention.

I don't know what advice to offer you on the late fees because legally they can access a late fee if your payment is received after the grace period. Late fees are added to the end of the contract as an unpaid balance due. That's how all banks operate. If you don't paid the full balance due on a loan, it becomes an unpaid account and it will keep getting reported every month to all three credit reporting companies: over-30, over-60, over-90, over-120. No matter how you explain it in the future, it will seriously ding your credit score.

Quote:

So I am going to decide now is the next car going to be Audi R8 or Porsche Panamera turbo awd.
Between those two choices, I would go for the Porsche.

Quote:
Scam along with BMW finance, I am thinking it is worth a call with a lawyer.
As long as it's a free call. I wouldn't pay anything to a lawyer because you have no cause of action. You admit that you didn't read what you purchased. You admit that you paid your payments two weeks late because that was more convenient for you. If you wanted to do that, you needed to call the lender first to arrange that with them. The lawyer can explain that to you. Just don't pay him for that advice because you already got it here for free.
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Old 08-24-2015, 11:45 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninong View Post
It starts with the in-service date, not the date the second owner buys the car. This is how all extended warranties work. And nobody offers a policy that goes beyond 100,000 miles.
No doubt this poster's post is crazy......however, just a point of information, there are warranties out there that start from inception date and can go beyond 100k total miles. When I bought my non-CPO 2006 E90 330i I also bought an exclusionary warranty that ran five years from the inception date or 72,000 miles from inception mileage which would take my car to 125,000 miles.
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  #21  
Old 08-25-2015, 12:09 AM
BmwLoosingFaith BmwLoosingFaith is offline
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Maybe a little crazy due to frustration...

And yes that was what was explained to me by sales that I would have full warranty for the 6 year or up to 100k miles. The actual paperwork was done out of state and I had the car shipped to me. Had my m6 shipped to them.

You can't post late on credit without being in written notice or 30 days past due which i was never 30 days past due on payment and eXtra mone was pit to principle of loan. you are correct the bill is extending the life of the loan and i am fine with that.

But posting to credit after all forms of payment post directly to loan. When I paid more it took it off next month payment so actually paying the late fee was impossible through the online or phone payment systems.

It is the credit hit I am mostly pissed off with bmw financial. They have to show the bill either on my statement or send me the bill and request for the payment due. Not just go post late notice on my credit. Worth 5k for me to get it removed from my credit report if I had to and prove a point.

I was not talking about just the headlight washer flaps blowing off I am talking about the pump completely coming out of its housing and both within 3 seconds from each other and put a deep scratch down my car. What if it caused an accident? There was a motorcycle in front of me when it happened. What if he was behind me and both blew off and caused the biker to loose control and hit something. Who is at fault?

Any comments on the car falling apart in a sunny day wind?

Seems my most frustration was not discussed...

BMW servers clearly need a service upgrade to handle late fees. I can't pay them by any normal means.

Last edited by BmwLoosingFaith; 08-25-2015 at 12:16 AM.
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  #22  
Old 08-25-2015, 09:43 AM
Ninong Ninong is offline
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Nothing gets reported, by any creditors, until it is over-30 days late. Payments that are made beyond the grace period only show up on that particular lender's records. That's how it works with everybody -- banks, credit unions, credit cards, dept stores, etc.

However, unpaid balances do get reported once they are over-30. All banks simply add the late charges to the end of the loan. That's always a shock to some customers who wonder why their payoff is higher than they think it should be and then it has to be explained to them that the payoff includes x-amount for late fees.

If an unpaid balance gets beyond over-120, it usually gets reported as a charge-off. Some lenders may even sell the account to a collection company and it could get reported as an unpaid collection.

Points get deducted from your credit score by the credit reporting company's computer based on their unique methods for calculating their credit scores, even if they're using the same FICO system or Vantage system of scoring. Obviously an over-60 is worse than an over-30. An over-120 is much worse.

Unfortunately this is often a problem with customers who were unaware that their account was accumulating late charges. The computers do that and actual people may never know about it until you get over-30 days late. That's when your account starts showing up on their list of loans in default. With cars, some lenders don't start to freak out until you are more than 40 days late -- meaning two payments are past due. That's when repo notices usually go out.

BMWFS is not unique in the way they handle their accounts. The same thing would happen if you used Bank of America, or Wells Fargo, or Chase, etc.

As far as your car falling apart, that's between you and BMW. Not much I can offer on that point. I'm just trying to point out that reading the documents would have avoided all the other confusion. Even if you did this long distance, you still should have read everything once you received it. If you took over an open BMWFS loan, you had to sign the loan agreement and everything about the due date and late fees is right on there in detail. If the due date was inconvenient, you can usually call the lender to arrange a different due date but that has to be done and your account has to be changed to show the new due date. You can't just decide on your own to send all of the payments in 15 days late. That's how you got into trouble and ended up with all those late fees.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
When I bought my non-CPO 2006 E90 330i I also bought an exclusionary warranty that ran five years from the inception date or 72,000 miles from inception mileage which would take my car to 125,000 miles.
I should have said that I'm not aware of any BMW warranties that go beyond 100,000 miles.

I'm not a fan of any third party warranties. There are probably some "good" ones but I don't trust any of them. One of the largest, if not the largest, such companies, US Fidelis, went bankrupt because they were a scam. They weren't putting nearly enough money into the reserve for claims account. They spent millions on national TV commercials and mail-outs to anyone whose factory warranty was in its last year. They were even tied in with NASCAR. All of the people holding their policies were literally left holding the bag when they went under. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry...ed-warranties/

Maybe I'm more skeptical than most people because remember when these things were first dreamed up and know how many of them were not worth the paper they were written on. Even today you have extended warranties and other types of coverage written by the various national auto chains. How do you know what's going on? Who's holding the reserve account? Is it audited frequently? What if they go under? Sometimes the money simply isn't there because it wasn't submitted in a timely manner and instead was used to cover operating expenses. Whenever you buy any such product that doesn't have the manufacturer's name on it, caveat emptor. Be sure to google the company first, especially for bbb reports.
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