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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 02-09-2014, 09:13 AM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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N62 intermediate levers and cold mornings

Hey guys I'm trying to figure out the solution to the cold morning, rough idle misfire's that always clear up after you restart the car. From everything I've read, it sounds like it has to do with the intermediate levers. But not everybody is replacing the levers? So is there an alternative fix through software? Can the tolerances be adjusted to bring them back in spec?

I usually fire the car up and get going pretty quickly...manually shift, and keep the rpms around 2k for the first few miles until it warms up. But that's even a challenge due to living in the middle of town with a red light every 1/8th of a mile.

Really need a solution being it's the wife's car. Any ideas?
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2014, 05:06 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Come on guys...nothing?
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2014, 05:09 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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You can try changing the minimum lift up to .8mm (default is something like .2 or .3 I think) but I'm not sure if it will help. Changing the levers and I believe the eccentric shafts as well is the only true fix. Once they are worn, there's no unwearing them

I have read that if you disconnect one of the VANOS solenoids the computer will basically "turn off" the valvetronics system and go back to using the regular throttle body. I have not had a chance to try it on mine, but it's worth a shot. Try unplugging one one morning and see what happens.

Do you have access to INPA or any diagnostics hardware/software?
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  #4  
Old 02-10-2014, 05:34 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
You can try changing the minimum lift up to .8mm (default is something like .2 or .3 I think) but I'm not sure if it will help. Changing the levers and I believe the eccentric shafts as well is the only true fix. Once they are worn, there's no unwearing them

I have read that if you disconnect one of the VANOS solenoids the computer will basically "turn off" the valvetronics system and go back to using the regular throttle body. I have not had a chance to try it on mine, but it's worth a shot. Try unplugging one one morning and see what happens.

Do you have access to INPA or any diagnostics hardware/software?
Yea I read that about the VANOS solenoids as well. Wonder if you can run it like that indefinitely? And once disconnected, could you clear the codes to get rid of the check engine light?

No I don't have IPNA. But I do have a scan tool/ code reader. I really need to pick up IPNA or some kind of software.
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  #5  
Old 02-10-2014, 05:37 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb5 View Post
Yea I read that about the VANOS solenoids as well. Wonder if you can run it like that indefinitely? And once disconnected, could you clear the codes to get rid of the check engine light?

No I don't have IPNA. But I do have a scan tool/ code reader. I really need to pick up IPNA or some kind of software.
INPA is free. Just need the cable to connect a laptop to your car

Actuallllly, one of the guys on a UK E60 forum actually bought a car with valvetronics disabled and didn't even realize it. No error lights. Or that's what he claims anyways. No idea if it's true, but worth giving it a shot IMO. If it runs fine and fixes your problem, maybe you could just run it like that when it's colder weather at least (mine only did it when it was cold)

I dunno. Just an idea. Certainly not a BMW approved way of doing it, but I think it's worth a shot just to see what happens if nothing else
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  #6  
Old 02-10-2014, 06:10 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Ok, just disconnected all VANOS solenoids. I'll go test this POS and report back.
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  #7  
Old 02-10-2014, 06:15 PM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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On my e60 2004 I had the cold hard starts, the dealer did all the measurements and checked the levers per the SIB and all where good. It was an updated DME sw that fixed mine. I just do not know what version. But it was SW and not HW.
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  #8  
Old 02-10-2014, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
You can try changing the minimum lift up to .8mm (default is something like .2 or .3 I think) but I'm not sure if it will help. Changing the levers and I believe the eccentric shafts as well is the only true fix. Once they are worn, there's no unwearing them

I have read that if you disconnect one of the VANOS solenoids the computer will basically "turn off" the valvetronics system and go back to using the regular throttle body. I have not had a chance to try it on mine, but it's worth a shot. Try unplugging one one morning and see what happens.

Do you have access to INPA or any diagnostics hardware/software?
I think you had checked the minimum lift on yours. Is this strictly an INPA function to check and change? Do you know what menu to go into?

Thanks
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  #9  
Old 02-10-2014, 06:25 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogie View Post
I think you had checked the minimum lift on yours. Is this strictly an INPA function to check and change? Do you know what menu to go into?

Thanks
You're right. Mine was set at the max and still did it.. I forgot all about that

It can be done in INPA or ISTA. I haven't used INPA in so long I can't be much help on the menu. It's a menu for all the valvetronic stuff in the engine section


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  #10  
Old 02-10-2014, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
You're right. Mine was set at the max and still did it.. I forgot all about that

It can be done in INPA or ISTA. I haven't used INPA in so long I can't be much help on the menu. It's a menu for all the valvetronic stuff in the engine section


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Ok I never checked mine. I will have to hunt around in INPA to see what I find. I had my laptop connected to my e90 today for battery registration is it's got me going again on checking my e60 with INPA.
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  #11  
Old 02-10-2014, 06:40 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Ok,, just took it for a quick test run after disconnecting all 4 solenoids and it's the smoothest this car has ran in at least a year.
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  #12  
Old 02-10-2014, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb5 View Post
Ok,, just took it for a quick test run after disconnecting all 4 solenoids and it's the smoothest this car has ran in at least a year.
There is probably a list but it may be just carbon build up on the valves, I mean if prior to a year ago it ran better.

I run shell 93 95% of the time and a bottle of Techtron every now and then. My 545i was the smothest when I was at high altitude (5000 ft+) running 91 AKI. Now I am back at sea level running 93. But I do think the Shell nitrogen formula does work.
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2014, 07:07 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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The car has been running outside this whole time and I can't believe how smooth it's running. I cleared all codes as well and there's no new codes as of yet.
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2014, 08:04 PM
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Just turned the car off. One of the most notable differences was the amount of smoke after long idles...next to nothing. The car has been sitting up for the past few weeks, but I'm gonna have the wife drive it to work tomorrow. Who knows, it might start smoking again.

And no, I'm not claiming this is a fix to valve seals, but this VANOS/intermediate levers might be compounding the problem.
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  #15  
Old 02-10-2014, 08:12 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb5 View Post
Just turned the car off. One of the most notable differences was the amount of smoke after long idles...next to nothing. The car has been sitting up for the past few weeks, but I'm gonna have the wife drive it to work tomorrow. Who knows, it might start smoking again.

And no, I'm not claiming this is a fix to valve seals, but this VANOS/intermediate levers might be compounding the problem.
I wonder if running that way changes where the vacuum is or something and helps with the smoking too? Just a thought

That is the exact same thing the guy I was reading about on the UK forum said as well. Said it drove smoother and felt better with valvetronics disabled. I'm going to try it on mine too this weekend

Did you get any error lights??


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  #16  
Old 02-10-2014, 08:25 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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No error lights or codes at all and it was running for roughly 2 hours. I was also thinking you might want to disconnect yours to see if you clear up the smoking issue. I'm cautiously optimistic, but the smoking was almost nonexistent. Good thing I didn't order that AGA valve seal tool kit yet....probably to good to be true, but I can dream, right.
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  #17  
Old 02-10-2014, 08:27 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Maybe I should pull the solenoids and try to clean them this weekend.
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  #18  
Old 02-10-2014, 08:42 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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They aren't doing anything once you unplug one.. The problem is elsewhere IMO

One guy has had his like that for a year and no issues. So, hopefully it works out

They are easy to pull out though so can't hurt. They have two o rings. One big at the timing case and a small one deeper in. Cheap and easy to replace at the same time if you pull them out

Def gonna try it on mine!


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Last edited by schpenxel; 02-10-2014 at 08:44 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-10-2014, 09:24 PM
ilicboris ilicboris is offline
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Is there any risks to not replacing/fixing the intermediate levers? I had a rough idle/misfire on cold start and I had my independent mechanic check it out and he cleaned the intake manifold and fuel system and that pretty much solved it. I did get one time a misfire about 2 months later.
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  #20  
Old 02-11-2014, 03:22 AM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
They aren't doing anything once you unplug one.. The problem is elsewhere IMO

One guy has had his like that for a year and no issues. So, hopefully it works out

They are easy to pull out though so can't hurt. They have two o rings. One big at the timing case and a small one deeper in. Cheap and easy to replace at the same time if you pull them out

Def gonna try it on mine!


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Right, I agree they aren't doing anything at this point. I was thinking maybe clogged/dirty solenoids might be the problem with cold morning starts, not worn intermediate levers.
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  #21  
Old 02-11-2014, 06:29 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by pcb5 View Post
Right, I agree they aren't doing anything at this point. I was thinking maybe clogged/dirty solenoids might be the problem with cold morning starts, not worn intermediate levers.
Gotcha. I have a BMW training document somewhere that explains how the intermediate levers/throttle body do something different on cold weather starts vs starts on warmer days. I'll try to post that when I get home if I can find it.

The camshaft gears (vanos built in to it) lock into a kind of "home"'position when they don't have oil pressure, so I have a feeling your issues all to back to valvetronics
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  #22  
Old 02-11-2014, 08:29 AM
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A B Able Truck A B Able Truck is offline
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Schpenxel (better late then never) A while back you had questions about lever designations - I ran across this if it helps;

Look for the intermediate lever production date (stamped on the lever, next to the smaller roller contacting the eccentric shaft).
If the production date is in the range between "04 180" and "04 324" (e.g. day 324 of the year 2004), then the whole set of intermediate levers (16) has to be replaced. The same classification of levers must be used when ordering the intermediate levers (classification number is stamped below production date). There are 5 classifications of levers used in the N62 engine.
Note: In an individual cylinder head, all levers must have the same classification, but two different classification of intermediate levers may be used in one engine (e.g. bank 1: classification 2, bank 2: classification 3).
Important: The lower production range of the affected intermediate levers is only an approximation. It is possible that levers produced prior to "04 180" (but not earlier then "03 363") may have certain deviations in tolerances.

Last edited by A B Able Truck; 02-11-2014 at 08:33 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-11-2014, 03:47 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Still going good??!?
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  #24  
Old 02-11-2014, 04:18 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
Still going good??!?
Yes! Still going well with one exception. The wife's drive to work this morning was perfect. No shuttering, misfires, or even smoke.

On her way home from work she ran a couple errands and there was only one incident. In the middle of her afternoon errands it momentarily started misfiring at one of her stops...when she came back out started the car up and it ran perfect the rest of the afternoon. When I disconnected the VANOS solenoids, I just slightly pulled them out of their connector. Maybe I didn't pull one connection out far enough and it momentarily made connection.

Ill pull codes and check the connections in a lil bit and report back.
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  #25  
Old 02-11-2014, 05:56 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Had the following codes:

P0010 A intake camshaft position actuator circuit
P0020 A intake camshaft position actuator circuit
P0023 B exhaust camshaft position actuator circuit

and the ole P0492...disregard.

I erased the codes, gonna test drive it now and see it they return.

Thoughts on other codes?
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