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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 02-11-2014, 05:57 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Look like vanos errors to me


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  #27  
Old 02-11-2014, 07:18 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Pretty sure I had one still making connection. Once I disconnected, I got the fourth code, P0013. So, I'm gonna say this could have contributed to the wife's single incident, today. Cleared all codes and nothing so far but I'm sure they will return tomorrow.
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  #28  
Old 02-12-2014, 05:03 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Just a quick update for today. The car ran great with no issues. Codes are still there, but overall the engine is running much smoother.
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  #29  
Old 02-12-2014, 05:05 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Is it all 4 or just 3 still?
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  #30  
Old 02-12-2014, 05:11 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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All 4 codes are reporting. The other night when I disconnected, I just pushed the locking tab and pulled them out, maybe 1/8th of an inch. I wanted to keep them in order and keep all connections atleast partially sealed while testing this. Well, one of the 4 was still making connection. As soon as I pulled all of them completely out of the VANOS connectors, the 4th code came in.

Last edited by pcb5; 02-12-2014 at 05:19 PM.
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  #31  
Old 02-12-2014, 05:12 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Gotcha, good deal. Notice any drastic changes in fuel mileage?
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  #32  
Old 02-12-2014, 05:29 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Maybe not the mileage of when it was new with everything running perfectly but i'm thinking its going to be better mileage than I've been getting over the past 6 months.
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  #33  
Old 02-12-2014, 05:45 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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It had been running so rough, with early morning misfires, shutters, smoking, etc...There seemed to be a lot of internal pressure, maybe blow by from the valves being out of time due to these intermediate levers...not sure just a guess.

And now, once I park it in the garage I'm smelling very little oil coming from the engine bay (and this thing was puking oil) after I drive it. The smoking has been drastically reduced to the point that I could be burning leftover oil in the exhaust, although i'm sure there's still a valve seal issue, just not very noticeable at all. And, there's no cold start misfires or shutters. Now it sits there and idles effortlessly at 500 rpms.

Knowing my luck it'll die in some intersection tomorrow after the computer catches up with all of this.
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  #34  
Old 02-12-2014, 07:23 PM
ilicboris ilicboris is offline
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So you guys are legit driving the car with the vanos solenoids disconnected? All 4?

Last edited by ilicboris; 02-12-2014 at 07:25 PM.
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  #35  
Old 02-12-2014, 07:34 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Yup
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  #36  
Old 02-12-2014, 07:41 PM
ilicboris ilicboris is offline
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Damn, I might have to try this.
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  #37  
Old 02-12-2014, 07:57 PM
racooper3 racooper3 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogie View Post
There is probably a list but it may be just carbon build up on the valves, I mean if prior to a year ago it ran better.

I run shell 93 95% of the time and a bottle of Techtron every now and then. My 545i was the smothest when I was at high altitude (5000 ft+) running 91 AKI. Now I am back at sea level running 93. But I do think the Shell nitrogen formula does work.
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  #38  
Old 02-12-2014, 08:17 PM
racooper3 racooper3 is online now
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Disconnecting these 4 solenoids does what to the VANOS system? Don't they regulate oil flow? You cut off oil flow and you have less oil burning? I just don't get the solenoid and burning oil correlation. I understand worn seals and burning oil in exhaust. Also how does lack of functioning solenoid help with misfires and rough cold starts? Lots of questions and just not enough understanding of overall engineering issues. Can somebody net this out for me or are you all still bantering about what this means. Did you find that link on the VANOS training schpenxel? I'd love to learn more about this.

Last edited by racooper3; 02-12-2014 at 08:19 PM.
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  #39  
Old 02-12-2014, 08:21 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racooper3 View Post
Disconnecting these 4 solenoids does what to the VANOS system? Don't they regulate oil flow? You cut off oil flow and you have less oil burning? I just don't get the solenoid and burning oil correlation. I understand worn seals and burning oil in exhaust. Also how does lack of functioning solenoid help with misfires and rough cold starts? Lots of questions and just not enough understanding of overall engineering issues. Can somebody net this out for me or are you all still bantering about what this means. Did you find that link on the VANOS training schpenxel? I'd love to learn more about this.
If there is an issue with VANOS the computer disables valvetronics as well. Valvetronics is the problem, unplugging a VANOS solenoids is just a sideways way of getting valvetronics disabled

The VANOS / cam adjuster gears have locks built in where they lock into a sort of "home" position until they have oil pressure, so they basically just end up staying in that position I would imagine
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  #40  
Old 02-12-2014, 08:44 PM
racooper3 racooper3 is online now
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So there is no variable valve timing anymore. Can't see that improving fuel mileage. Perhaps degrades mpg. But as OP states it runs smoother. So perhaps there is Valvetronics software tuning to get closer to home position during a cold start, sacrificing a little mpg until engine is warmed up. Now less oil burning in exhaust/engine bay correlation?
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  #41  
Old 02-12-2014, 09:14 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Originally Posted by racooper3 View Post
So there is no variable valve timing anymore. Can't see that improving fuel mileage. Perhaps degrades mpg. But as OP states it runs smoother. So perhaps there is Valvetronics software tuning to get closer to home position during a cold start, sacrificing a little mpg until engine is warmed up. Now less oil burning in exhaust/engine bay correlation?
No I seriously doubt it will bring fuel mileage back to "like new" mileage. But, I think the car may have been getting worse mileage due to valvetronics being so far outta adjustment due to bad solenoids, or worn intermediate levers etc.... So, by disconnecting solenoids and getting valvetronics outta the equation I'm hoping to see some mileage improvement, and getting a little closer to factory fuel numbers. Really to soon to tell.
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  #42  
Old 02-12-2014, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by pcb5 View Post
No I seriously doubt it will bring fuel mileage back to "like new" mileage. But, I think the car may have been getting worse mileage due to valvetronics being so far outta adjustment due to bad solenoids, or worn intermediate levers etc.... So, by disconnecting solenoids and getting valvetronics outta the equation I'm hoping to see some mileage improvement, and getting a little closer to factory fuel numbers. Really to soon to tell.
I've read a few posts that say either reseal or replaced the solenoids and it has corrected the problem.

These may help;
http://forums.5series.net/diy-do-you...enoids-118718/

http://prodcds.bmwuniversity.com/lib...s/06_VANOS.pdf
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  #43  
Old 03-12-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb5 View Post
No I seriously doubt it will bring fuel mileage back to "like new" mileage. But, I think the car may have been getting worse mileage due to valvetronics being so far outta adjustment due to bad solenoids, or worn intermediate levers etc.... So, by disconnecting solenoids and getting valvetronics outta the equation I'm hoping to see some mileage improvement, and getting a little closer to factory fuel numbers. Really to soon to tell.
Had someone PM me on another forum that wants to know how it is going (does not have an account on this forum yet) and to verify that the photo is the correct solenoids to disconnect for fail safe operation.
Click image for larger version

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  #44  
Old 03-12-2014, 09:53 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by A B Able Truck View Post
Had someone PM me on another forum that wants to know how it is going (does not have an account on this forum yet) and to verify that the photo is the correct solenoids to disconnect for fail safe operation.
Attachment 427637
That is the correct one/ones. I think you can just unhook any one of them and not necessarily all. I've been meaning to try it on mine but haven't gotten around to it
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  #45  
Old 03-12-2014, 06:28 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Originally Posted by A B Able Truck View Post
Had someone PM me on another forum that wants to know how it is going (does not have an account on this forum yet) and to verify that the photo is the correct solenoids to disconnect for fail safe operation.
Attachment 427637
Yes I disconnected all 4 of them, and they are still disconnected. The car runs much better as long as your willing to sacrifice a little low end throttle response and maybe a little low end torque. No more shutter, misfires, and it's not consuming near the oil. Smoking is basically nonexistent. Something has definitely changed with internal pressure under the valve cover. Maybe the valves weren't closing all the way, which would suck oil into the combustion chamber causing the smoke and also creating a bunch of unwanted pressure under the valve cover forcing it to leak from valve cover seals, etc.... I would like to hear opinions?

I would like for somebody who drives their car daily to try it, just to see it results are consistant.
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  #46  
Old 03-12-2014, 07:52 PM
aber57 aber57 is online now
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If you cut off valvetronic and force throttle control then you create manifold vacuum where Valvetronic creates none. The throttle is closed down a bit to create a faint vacuum when VT is functional but it is 2-4 inches of vacuum as opposed to closed throttle vacuum of 22-24 inches. Valve stems seals that crankcase pressure forced oil though into exh ports now has vacuum and even a bit of exhaust may be coming up through guides/seals.
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  #47  
Old 03-12-2014, 08:12 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Originally Posted by aber57 View Post
If you cut off valvetronic and force throttle control then you create manifold vacuum where Valvetronic creates none. The throttle is closed down a bit to create a faint vacuum when VT is functional but it is 2-4 inches of vacuum as opposed to closed throttle vacuum of 22-24 inches. Valve stems seals that crankcase pressure forced oil though into exh ports now has vacuum and even a bit of exhaust may be coming up through guides/seals.
I'm thinking exhaust coming up through the valve guides isn't possible unless the valves aren't closing all the way, right? Assuming the valve has a bad valve guide and a bad valve seal, it's still has to get past the closed valve. If it does, I would think there's going to be some significant pressure created under the valve cover, that's going to cause some serious oil leaks

Whats the harm in running it this way?
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  #48  
Old 03-12-2014, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by aber57 View Post
If you cut off valvetronic and force throttle control then you create manifold vacuum where Valvetronic creates none. The throttle is closed down a bit to create a faint vacuum when VT is functional but it is 2-4 inches of vacuum as opposed to closed throttle vacuum of 22-24 inches. Valve stems seals that crankcase pressure forced oil though into exh ports now has vacuum and even a bit of exhaust may be coming up through guides/seals.
What's the difference if you're creating the vacuum pre or post intake valves? Other then the increased intake chamber (manifold) vacuum, if your CCV valves are working correctly and closing. There is the possibility that oil could be sucked from the intake valve stem seals, but theory is, they are not the problem to begin with.

Last edited by A B Able Truck; 03-12-2014 at 08:21 PM. Reason: info
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  #49  
Old 03-12-2014, 08:22 PM
pcb5 pcb5 is offline
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Originally Posted by A B Able Truck View Post
What's the difference if you're creating the vacuum pre or post intake valves? Other then the increased intake chamber (manifold) vacuum, if your CCV valves are working correctly and closing. There is the possibility that oil could be sucked from the intake valve stem seals, but theory is, they are not the problem to begin with.
If oil was sucked through the intake valve stem seals wouldn't it still smoke...oil in combustion chamber?
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  #50  
Old 03-12-2014, 08:31 PM
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Looking at it conversely, if the increased vacuum doesn't allow crankcase pressure to escape, you may blow crankcase seals & gaskets. I think I would leave the dipstick slightly pulled - if you have one.
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