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F10 M5 (2012 - Current)
The count down is on. The BMW M5 F10 will be released on April 1st, 2011!

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  #1  
Old 02-10-2014, 10:27 AM
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F10 m5 a united states failure ?

Since the F10 M5 came out in the united states its reception has been luke warm at best. I have yet to see a real favorable write up on the F10 M5 in any united states publications. The UK car mags seem to favor the new M5 much better and it will even win some car comparos over there. I have yet to see the F10 M5 win a single car comparo here in the united states, not one, although maybe I missed one . In the janruary edition of motor trend a comparo was done between the 3 "best" performance sedans available from germany. Well at least this time the M5 did not lose another comparo, it was not even mentioned/considered. The three were the porsche panamera vs. the RS7 vs. AMG cls 63. No M6. No M5. Did BMW really miss the boat that badly with the M5 ? I can remeber when any 4 door super sports comparo started with the M5, and usually ended with the mighty M5. I remeber it was not to long ago that the cts-v had to go head to head with the E60 M5 to prove it's place among the 4 door elite, and it was a complete upset when it had appeared the CTS-V had dethroned the mighty M5, the 4 door performance sedan which all others were measured by. All greatness has era's and peaks and valleys. The great edmonton oilers, the new york yankees, the new england patriots, the pittsburgh steelers, and the detroit red wings, just to name a few. It appears we have witnessed the end of an era of dominance in the 4 door super sedan segment were the M5 has become nothing more than a steeping stone for up and comers. Maybe next it will be the chrysler 300 vs. the M5.
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2014, 09:38 PM
Tom C. Tom C. is offline
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Since the F10 M5 came out in the united states its reception has been luke warm at best. I have yet to see a real favorable write up on the F10 M5 in any united states publications. The UK car mags seem to favor the new M5 much better and it will even win some car comparos over there. I have yet to see the F10 M5 win a single car comparo here in the united states, not one, although maybe I missed one . In the janruary edition of motor trend a comparo was done between the 3 "best" performance sedans available from germany. Well at least this time the M5 did not lose another comparo, it was not even mentioned/considered. The three were the porsche panamera vs. the RS7 vs. AMG cls 63. No M6. No M5. Did BMW really miss the boat that badly with the M5 ? I can remeber when any 4 door super sports comparo started with the M5, and usually ended with the mighty M5. I remeber it was not to long ago that the cts-v had to go head to head with the E60 M5 to prove it's place among the 4 door elite, and it was a complete upset when it had appeared the CTS-V had dethroned the mighty M5, the 4 door performance sedan which all others were measured by. All greatness has era's and peaks and valleys. The great edmonton oilers, the new york yankees, the new england patriots, the pittsburgh steelers, and the detroit red wings, just to name a few. It appears we have witnessed the end of an era of dominance in the 4 door super sedan segment were the M5 has become nothing more than a steeping stone for up and comers. Maybe next it will be the chrysler 300 vs. the M5.
There is a lot of fail in this post. You mention the "snub" by Motor Trend. Did you even read the article? They clearly stated that they wanted the M6 GC to test against the other sedans/4 door coupes. But BMW was refreshing their loaner fleet with competition packages which was not available when they wanted to conduct the test. That is a far cry from your implication that it wasn't good enough. The other cars in that test were the 4 door coupe variety and the more expensive...more "stylish" iterations. The CLS is to the E class what the 6 gran coupe is to the 5 series so it would make sense for Motor Trend to want that test.

Your sports analogy is also a failure. All those sports teams won their championships on the field or ice. They out scored their opponents in their respective sports. Are car magazines really the equivalent of that!? I think not. Not when you have auto journalists too focused on cup holders and how easy it is to learn a nav system in 5 minutes of seat time. Where a car "wins" or "loses" is based on the enjoyment the driver derives from driving that car. That is such a subjective measurement. If you don't enjoy your car, find one that suits your liking, just don't have a panic attack because some supposed "expert" has a different value system.

In the Motor Trend test of the M5 against the E63 S, they basically chose the E63 S because the AWD was more confidence inspiring. Which is fine, but some people actually prefer having RWD and knowing that it takes a bit of skill to fully harness the power. So before you hop on the automotive press bandwagon, make sure you understand and know who they are and where they are going.
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  #3  
Old 02-11-2014, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by FTC View Post
Since the F10 M5 came out in the united states its reception has been luke warm at best. I have yet to see a real favorable write up on the F10 M5 in any united states publications. The UK car mags seem to favor the new M5 much better and it will even win some car comparos over there. I have yet to see the F10 M5 win a single car comparo here in the united states, not one, although maybe I missed one . In the janruary edition of motor trend a comparo was done between the 3 "best" performance sedans available from germany. Well at least this time the M5 did not lose another comparo, it was not even mentioned/considered. The three were the porsche panamera vs. the RS7 vs. AMG cls 63. No M6. No M5. Did BMW really miss the boat that badly with the M5 ? I can remeber when any 4 door super sports comparo started with the M5, and usually ended with the mighty M5. I remeber it was not to long ago that the cts-v had to go head to head with the E60 M5 to prove it's place among the 4 door elite, and it was a complete upset when it had appeared the CTS-V had dethroned the mighty M5, the 4 door performance sedan which all others were measured by. All greatness has era's and peaks and valleys. The great edmonton oilers, the new york yankees, the new england patriots, the pittsburgh steelers, and the detroit red wings, just to name a few. It appears we have witnessed the end of an era of dominance in the 4 door super sedan segment were the M5 has become nothing more than a steeping stone for up and comers. Maybe next it will be the chrysler 300 vs. the M5.
Hi I am in the UK, I drove the AMG63 Mercedes and the Porsche panamera Turbo before buying the LCI M5.
The M5 was better all round for me by a mile, just test drive these cars and "Ignore" the crap these mags write.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:56 AM
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There is a lot of fail in this post. You mention the "snub" by Motor Trend. Did you even read the article? They clearly stated that they wanted the M6 GC to test against the other sedans/4 door coupes. But BMW was refreshing their loaner fleet with competition packages which was not available when they wanted to conduct the test. That is a far cry from your implication that it wasn't good enough. The other cars in that test were the 4 door coupe variety and the more expensive...more "stylish" iterations. The CLS is to the E class what the 6 gran coupe is to the 5 series so it would make sense for Motor Trend to want that test.

Your sports analogy is also a failure. All those sports teams won their championships on the field or ice. They out scored their opponents in their respective sports. Are car magazines really the equivalent of that!? I think not. Not when you have auto journalists too focused on cup holders and how easy it is to learn a nav system in 5 minutes of seat time. Where a car "wins" or "loses" is based on the enjoyment the driver derives from driving that car. That is such a subjective measurement. If you don't enjoy your car, find one that suits your liking, just don't have a panic attack because some supposed "expert" has a different value system.

In the Motor Trend test of the M5 against the E63 S, they basically chose the E63 S because the AWD was more confidence inspiring. Which is fine, but some people actually prefer having RWD and knowing that it takes a bit of skill to fully harness the power. So before you hop on the automotive press bandwagon, make sure you understand and know who they are and where they are going.
Yes I read the entire article and I read the part about wanting to test the M6GC. Although I do not think the outcome would have been any different, it would have finished 4th and missed the playoffs. And yes I read and watched the comparo between the E63 AMG and the M5. Yes they liked the AWD system better, but isn't that also like saying the M5 is like having a jarmir jagor, flashy all over the ice scores alot of goals vs. having a Mark Messier, the E63, stable a true leader and a proven winner and knows how to win stanley cups. I'll take mark messier. Whether it's the AWD,the lack of steering feedback, the vehicle weight hampering the handling, or the brakes system the F10 M5 consistently loses every U.S. COMPARO IN IT'S CLASS. And yes I own a M5 AND SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS.

Last edited by FTC; 02-11-2014 at 05:57 AM.
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  #5  
Old 02-11-2014, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by johnbmw6 View Post
Hi I am in the UK, I drove the AMG63 Mercedes and the Porsche panamera Turbo before buying the LCI M5.
The M5 was better all round for me by a mile, just test drive these cars and "Ignore" the crap these mags write.
By the way, beautiful M5, love the MCB. I hear what you are saying and I would agree with if just 1 car critic disapproved of the f10 m5 but that is not the case, there is a definite trend with the M5. The bottom line is that BMW missed it with the f10 M5 and it probably would be lucky to make a top 10 list in it's own class.

Last edited by FTC; 02-11-2014 at 06:05 AM.
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  #6  
Old 02-11-2014, 06:30 AM
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Yes I read the entire article and I read the part about wanting to test the M6GC. Although I do not think the outcome would have been any different, it would have finished 4th and missed the playoffs. And yes I read and watched the comparo between the E63 AMG and the M5. Yes they liked the AWD system better, but isn't that also like saying the M5 is like having a jarmir jagor, flashy all over the ice scores alot of goals vs. having a Mark Messier, the E63, stable a true leader and a proven winner and knows how to win stanley cups. I'll take mark messier. Whether it's the AWD,the lack of steering feedback, the vehicle weight hampering the handling, or the brakes system the F10 M5 consistently loses every U.S. COMPARO IN IT'S CLASS. And yes I own a M5 AND SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS.
You cast aside real facts and insert opinions as facts ("it would have finished 4th and missed the playoffs" )...so good luck and I hope you stop crying and follow the US automotive press and chose one of the other competitors.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:59 AM
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You cast aside real facts and insert opinions as facts ("it would have finished 4th and missed the playoffs" )...so good luck and I hope you stop crying and follow the US automotive press and chose one of the other competitors.
My statements are not opinions they are facts. If you can find a review in the U.S. were the M5 was favored or even recommended as a value let me know.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:14 AM
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My statements are not opinions they are facts. If you can find a review in the U.S. were the M5 was favored or even recommended as a value let me know.
How about this, go test drive each of the cars and use the objective and subjective guidlines here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...specs-page-5-2

Maybe you might come to a different conclusion. But more likely you need the affirmation of a car magazine to tell you which one is the better car.....
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:14 AM
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My statements are not opinions they are facts. If you can find a review in the U.S. were the M5 was favored or even recommended as a value let me know.
I guess I'd have to ask why are industry reviews so important to you?
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:21 AM
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How about this, go test drive each of the cars and use the objective and subjective guidlines here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...specs-page-5-2

Maybe you might come to a different conclusion. But more likely you need the affirmation of a car magazine to tell you which one is the better car.....
That was good info. I just did some research on the 2013 M5 from car and driver. Found 1 comparo test vs. the amg e63 vs. the s6 audi. Again it got killed, not even close, the S6 won. The M5 did not even win the two most important catagories like the M6 did, which is chasis and powertrain. Car adnd Driver has ranked the M5 6th in it's class by the way. That might be a sympathy vote.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:27 AM
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I guess I'd have to ask why are industry reviews so important to you?
The reason why I think they can be helpful is because some of us do not have the time to test drive every competitor in it's class. I did test drive the porsche panarama turbo, but as great of a sedan as it is I did not feel it was worth $ 60,000.00 more with options, and thats being conservative. I guess I missed out by not test driving the e63 amg or the rs 7 or s8. That is why I am leaning towards a f80 M3, more like a E39 M5.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:27 AM
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That was good info. I just did some research on the 2013 M5 from car and driver. Found 1 comparo test vs. the amg e63 vs. the s6 audi. Again it got killed, not even close, the S6 won. The M5 did not even win the two most important catagories like the M6 did, which is chasis and powertrain. Car adnd Driver has ranked the M5 6th in it's class by the way. That might be a sympathy vote.
Which just shows the inconsistencies considering the M6 GC and M5 have the EXACT same powertrain and the M5 faced lesser competition (RS7 has much more robust powertrain than the S6 and CLS63 S was more powerful than the non-PP E63). So go ahead and be a sheep and let others do the "testing" and just take their word for it... enjoy!

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Old 02-11-2014, 08:30 AM
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My statements are not opinions they are facts. If you can find a review in the U.S. were the M5 was favored or even recommended as a value let me know.
The recent one by Matt Farah from Drive.

There are plenty of reviews where the M5 comes out on top.

I just watched one where it beat the CTS-V.

I personally hate the F10 M5, but it's FAR from a failure. What, sir, are you smoking?


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Old 02-11-2014, 08:31 AM
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Which just shows the inconsistencies considering the M6 GC and M5 have the EXACT same powertrain and the M5 faced lesser competition (RS7 has much more robust powertrain than the S6 and CLS63 S was more powerful than the non-PP E63). So go ahead and be a sheep and let others do the "testing" and just take their word for it... enjoy!
But the two cars do not drive the same or handle the same. You can read feedback from people who have owned both.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:33 AM
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The recent one by Matt Farah from Drive.

There are plenty of reviews where the M5 comes out on top.

I just watched one where it beat the CTS-V.

I personally hate the F10 M5, but it's FAR from a failure. What, sir, are you smoking?


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I own one, it's a failure. The CTS-V it beat is the outgoing CTS-V, and it just barley beat it. It will not even be close when the new CTS-V comes out.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:34 AM
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Click image for larger version

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ID:	422096


Something I found within 20 seconds of googling.

"Discreetly wicked" sounds pretty good to me.


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Old 02-11-2014, 08:35 AM
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I own one, it's a failure. The CTS-V it beat is the outgoing CTS-V, and it just barley beat it. It will not even be close when the new CTS-V comes out.
The opinion of one disillusioned owner hardly matters at all.

In fact, it doesn't matter at all. Go buy another car and stop complaining.


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Old 02-11-2014, 08:39 AM
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Attachment 422096


Something I found within 20 seconds of googling.

"Discreetly wicked" sounds pretty good to me.


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That was until all the other competition came out and people realized it is no more than a 550 on steriods, and that is a very mild dose of steriods.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:41 AM
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The opinion of one disillusioned owner hardly matters at all.

In fact, it doesn't matter at all. Go buy another car and stop complaining.


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I agree. You are right. That's why it will either be the new cts-v or a f80 M3.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:43 AM
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I agree. You are right. That's why it will either be the new cts-v or a f80 M3.
Can't say those are bad choices. New CTS-V should be a monster, but I'm reserving judgement on the F80. BMWs turbo cars haven't been that great IMO.


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Old 02-11-2014, 08:59 AM
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But the two cars do not drive the same or handle the same. You can read feedback from people who have owned both.
I never said anything about handling. The acceleration performance #'s are very close between the M6 GC and the M5, yet the scoring is off against the relative competition. That tells me their "scoring" system is off-base. Yet you treat them like everything they say is Gospel. A little skepticism isn't a bad thing. Go and test an E63 or RS7 and come to your own conclusions.

Me personally, I test everything. I have my own vbox because I want to test how fast my car is and test before and after performance impact on my mods. I also hit the drag strip and dynos on occasion to back things up. I never take an aftermarket performance company at their word.

I like car mags just as much as anyone else, but I also take things they say with more than a grain of salt.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:54 AM
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The reason why I think they can be helpful is because some of us do not have the time to test drive every competitor in it's class.
Well it's your money, I'd bet that dealers see you coming though.

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That is why I am leaning towards a f80 M3, more like a E39 M5.
Driven one yet?
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:37 PM
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Well it's your money, I'd bet that dealers see you coming though.



Driven one yet?
Have not driven one yet, but based on the videos I have seen and some of the reviews that are out there it seems very positive for the F80 M3. Also take a look at the body weight and the overall dimensions,the extra torque upgrade this M3 is getting, and it can not be a bad thing when you are being compared to the E 39 M5. And BMW themselves stated that the M3 is there # 1 M car.
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:48 PM
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F10 m5 a united states failure ?

The only failure is this thread!

Would you believe that the world is flat if you read it in enough magazines?

I've driven all the cars you mentioned and the M5 is better than all but one. The Porsche a Panamera Turbo when and only when equipped with PDCC, PSE, Sport Chrono and SPASM is better than the M5. It also costs $30k more. When equipped to a similar price the M5 crushes the Panamera Turbo.

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Old 02-12-2014, 07:28 PM
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The only failure is this thread!

Would you believe that the world is flat if you read it in enough magazines?

I've driven all the cars you mentioned and the M5 is better than all but one. The Porsche a Panamera Turbo when and only when equipped with PDCC, PSE, Sport Chrono and SPASM is better than the M5. It also costs $30k more. When equipped to a similar price the M5 crushes the Panamera Turbo.

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I agree with you on the Porsche panamera turbo. I have actually seen them priced at around $ 190,000.00 fully loaded vs. a fully loaded M5 at $ 130,000.00 fully loaded. The Porsche is a great sedan but not $ 60,000.00 better, unless money is absolutely no object. As far as the M5 being a total bust in the United States if you research, and I know you do, everything from car critics, to actual owners, to how many f10 M5's have already been traded back into dealerships the research results will not be very favorable for the M5. It's kind of like a hockey team that keeps saying, " we are a good team", but after the first 56 games of the season they have 15 wins and 40 points. It is not a coincendence that the market is flooded with used m5's and consumer/magazine review after review is less than flattering.

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