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7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)
The new re-designed 7 series F01 / F02 leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code!

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  #1  
Old 02-21-2014, 10:42 AM
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TL2E90 TL2E90 is offline
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Carbon Build up

My car has 38k miles. Last night it started to shake while idling and the Drivetrain Malfunction message came up. I made it to the closest BMW dealership. They ran a diagnostic on my car and said the engine has massive carbon buildup. They said they would have to drop the engine and decarbonize it along with changing all spark plugs and injectors.
They quoted me $17,000 !!!
Anyone experienced this kind of problem? Please let me know. Thanks
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:55 AM
Nadir Point Nadir Point is offline
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Sounds like you don't have an extended warranty. Bummer.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:12 AM
DLF750 DLF750 is online now
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Not that this will help necessarily but I just started a thread on this subject yesterday! Funny. I was watching an episode of Wheeler Dealers, older one, and they had a similar issue I guess and they hooked up a machine to the engine and decarbonized it. Find the episode with a Jaguar XK8 convertible. I just ordered, and again, not sure this will help, Chevron Techron, here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

i cannot imagine it would hurt to try this unless you need IMMEDIATE results if the car isn't safe to drive. Or try to find a local mechanic that could do it for less than $17k! For that much, I'd trade in the car.

Check this link too:

http://www.uklegacy.com/forums/index...carbonization/

think it's called Terraclean system.

Here's the link to the Wheeler Dealers episode, just the part with the carbon cleaning:

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Old 02-21-2014, 11:13 AM
DLF750 DLF750 is online now
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This is the company, apparently it's Canadian owned, might help you in Toronto?

http://www.terraclean.net/
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:15 AM
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Isn't this the infamous "injector issue" that's been discussed multiple times in this forum? Any type of cleaner (if it works) is a short-term band-aid solution in my view.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:29 AM
jwanes jwanes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL2E90 View Post
My car has 38k miles. Last night it started to shake while idling and the Drivetrain Malfunction message came up. I made it to the closest BMW dealership. They ran a diagnostic on my car and said the engine has massive carbon buildup. They said they would have to drop the engine and decarbonize it along with changing all spark plugs and injectors.
They quoted me $17,000 !!!
Anyone experienced this kind of problem? Please let me know. Thanks
Which dealer was that? I guess they are going to tear the engine apart and clean it? I would definitely get a second opinion. Please report back as things develop.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:32 AM
etone etone is offline
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If you are going to consider an indie mechanic, Ivo @ Columbus Automotive is highly regarded in the GTA, at least in the 3 series forums. I took my previous e92 there, and he does fantastic work. Great reviews from others. If I were in your shoes, I would contact him to see if he can help. Not sure if he can work on a F01, but he is a stand up, honest guy.

Here is his info. +1 (416) 882-1439
6741 columbus rd unit 11 back entrance.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jwanes View Post
Which dealer was that? I guess they are going to tear the engine apart and clean it? I would definitely get a second opinion. Please report back as things develop.
I took it to Parkview BMW. They said sooner or later most of BMW cars will have to go through this process. Our engines however seem to be a lot more prone to this kind of problem. They quoted me $5800 for injectors and $7500 for decarb. Spark plugs and many other small parts sums it up to almost 17K.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:49 PM
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5800 for injectors? You can get injectors online for ~$150 a piece in the US ($180 MSRP). Unless $5800 includes labour. Still, that is a huge amount of labour they are charging. I've seen other posts on injector replacement costs, but don't recall what their bills were like.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:14 PM
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I know part are a lot cheaper online. BMW dealers markup is over 100% in many cases.
What really worries me however is the reliability of our engines . It seems to me that BMW builds less reliable engines as the time goes by. While I was in the shop discussing with my SA I have seen a 2011 or up BMW M5 (new body style) with the engine taken out and dismantled because of carbon build up. I understand that carbon build up plagues nowadays DI engines but nonetheless BMW seems to have more occurrences than other manufacturers.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:33 PM
luigi524td luigi524td is online now
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You gotta be kidding me ... $17K so a $100K+ car with 38K on the clock will run?!?!? That sounds like a SERIOUS product defect to me. Or at least an emissions warranty claim. You do have emissions laws in Canada don't you??
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:33 PM
luigi524td luigi524td is online now
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You gotta be kidding me ... $17K so a $100K+ car with 38K on the clock will run?!?!? That sounds like a SERIOUS product defect to me. Or at least an emissions warranty claim. You do have emissions laws in Canada don't you??
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:36 PM
luigi524td luigi524td is online now
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Hey Mods ... the forum is havin a case of the slowskies and this double post is not of my doing!!
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:42 PM
etone etone is offline
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Seems like all DI engines are coming of age that this carbon buildup is becoming a big problem for all. At least, in our Audi Q5's case, Audi Canada has extended the warranty for a total of 10 years on carb cleanup on the intake. I wonder if BMW would do the same if the problem shows itself to be epidemic. I just happened to to talk to a mechanic and he says that they have a X6 with the same engine in the shop suffering the same problem. 22k job.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:24 PM
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TL2E90, I'm curious .... how often have you been changing engine oil? Every 15K? Or sooner?
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:58 PM
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After all these posts I've read, I've started changing my oil at 7500 miles to be safer. The cost is so minor in comparison to the possible damage. Adding the cleaner in my next tank.
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimg9582 View Post
Isn't this the infamous "injector issue" that's been discussed multiple times in this forum? Any type of cleaner (if it works) is a short-term band-aid solution in my view.
This

Definitely sounds like the injector problem. Same symptoms. Do you have a code reader or access to one? Buy two bottles of Chevron Techron cleaner and put it in one tank of gas (double dose). See if things smooth out.


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Old 02-21-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by hd750Li View Post
TL2E90, I'm curious .... how often have you been changing engine oil? Every 15K? Or sooner?
Every 6K miles.
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:42 PM
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I am wondering how the technician knows there is carbon buildup without opening the engine? Just by reading the fault codes? I have the fault report here and all I see is some cylinders misfiring.
Another strange thing: the quoted me 14 hours of labor to replace the injectors. Does this make sense?
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:59 PM
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don't use Cheap gas. that will accelerate carbon buildup, and you need to let your car breath once in a while wind the engine up to redline a few times, drive fast for a while in 3rd gear. High performance engines don't do Nice very well. Occasionally they need to be bad, not just a 1/4 mile dragstrip.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:02 PM
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Carbon Build up

I had mine cleaned last year at the dealer. They picked up the tab.

Unfortunately, carbon build up is an unavoidable illness for direct injection engines. You gotta give it a good run every now and again. Wouldn't hurt the engine to redline it once in a while when the engine is all nice and hot (I mean normal temp).
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Last edited by Ram750; 02-21-2014 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ram750 View Post
I had mine cleaned last year at the dealer. They picked up the tab.

Unfortunately, carbon build up is an unavoidable illness for direct injection engines. You gotta give it a good run every now and again. Wouldn't hurt the engine to redline it once in a while when the engine is all nice and hot (I mean normal temp).
How did they clean the build up? Did they have to remove the engine? Did they have to replace the spark plugs and injectors as well?

Last edited by TL2E90; 02-21-2014 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:05 PM
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Carbon Build up

Quote:
Originally Posted by TL2E90 View Post
How did they clean the build up? Did they have to remove the engine? Did they have to replace the spark plugs and injectors as well?

The dealer uses a procedure called Walnut Blasting. I didn't stay there and watch them perform the cleanup, but part of the engine have to be removed as the carbon builds up at the back of the valve. There seems to be some machine available for DIY'er but it's not a project I want to tackle.

During that same service, all spark plugs and injectors were replaced.

Just google carbon buildup treatment and you'll find tons on information. I spent hours reading about this issue and fix when my car had to go under the knife for it.

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Last edited by Ram750; 02-21-2014 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:49 PM
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@ TL2E90

Here are some info you might want to read on carbon build-up. This one got some nice pictures to show the carbon build up at the back of the valves.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...valve+cleaning

http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-...-adopters.html
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:46 PM
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In all fairness I believe that car manufacturers should pick up the tab for every single ordeal like this one. We as customers have no responsibility to pay for a faulty engine design and this applies for all DI engine.
Designers did not seem to care in this case what will happen to a DI engine in a long run and how to prevent such catastrophic events from breaking our banks.
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