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7 Series - F01 (2009 - current)
The new re-designed 7 series leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code!

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  #26  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:49 PM
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TL2E90 TL2E90 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ram750 View Post
@ TL2E90

Here are some info you might want to read on carbon build-up. This one got some nice pictures to show the carbon build up at the back of the valves.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...valve+cleaning

http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-...-adopters.html
Thanks! Very good information indeed. I deeply regret I did not do my due diligence before I bought this car. Had I known about this problem I would not be driving a BMW car today.
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  #27  
Old 02-22-2014, 06:52 AM
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are there any treatments worth to be tried before removing the whole engine?
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  #28  
Old 02-22-2014, 07:55 AM
Ram750 Ram750 is offline
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Carbon Build up

I don't think there's much one can do with DI engines to avoid carbon build up at the back of the intake valves. You can prevent it from happening by avoiding driving the car for short trip only; giving it a nice run on the highway every now and then.

BMW is not the only company that has this problem. Audi does as well. Only difference with Audi is that they are standing behind their product and extending carbon build up treatment on DI engines. Maybe BMW team needs phone call from them and do the same. If that doesn't work, maybe a class action lawsuit might be the way to go to get them off their ass.


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  #29  
Old 02-22-2014, 08:06 AM
jwanes jwanes is offline
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Originally Posted by TL2E90 View Post
are there any treatments worth to be tried before removing the whole engine?
I did a search on the 5 forum and there were a couple posts where the carbon build up was cleaned for $250-500. I am not sure what that involves but it's worth pursuing.
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  #30  
Old 02-22-2014, 08:38 AM
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My SA explained to me that N63 engine has a very poor design in terms of maintenance access. In other words he referred to some intake ports that cannot be accessed without removing the engine. This is a pretty stupid design indeed.
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  #31  
Old 02-22-2014, 03:53 PM
DLF750 DLF750 is offline
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See my post #3 on this thread about cleaning carbon build up. I'm sure someone in the States can do this treatment.
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  #32  
Old 02-22-2014, 07:37 PM
ajdoha234 ajdoha234 is offline
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Originally Posted by TL2E90 View Post
My SA explained to me that N63 engine has a very poor design in terms of maintenance access. In other words he referred to some intake ports that cannot be accessed without removing the engine. This is a pretty stupid design indeed.
I am curious as to his thoughts on the N55 engine?
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  #33  
Old 02-23-2014, 07:14 AM
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As explained by a BMW technician the decarb process itself is pretty straight forward and takes around 6 hours for a V8 engine. The main problem however is the access to intake valves and other areas that need the cleaning. Apparently because of the way N63 is designed there is no other way to access the ports other than removing the engine.
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  #34  
Old 02-23-2014, 09:17 AM
jwanes jwanes is offline
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http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=709218

Check post 32 in the link. Carbon build up was cleaned by a solution injected into the intake on an N63 engine for a few hundred dollars. I would definitely get a second opinion. Also Terraclean from an earlier post appears to be another option. Please report back as everyone of us will face this situation sooner or later.
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  #35  
Old 02-23-2014, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jwanes View Post
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=709218

Check post 32 in the link. Carbon build up was cleaned by a solution injected into the intake on an N63 engine for a few hundred dollars. I would definitely get a second opinion. Also Terraclean from an earlier post appears to be another option. Please report back as everyone of us will face this situation sooner or later.
I pm'ed him. I need to know what kind of cleaner BMW used. I am pretty sure there has to be an easier way to do this other than taking the engine apart.
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  #36  
Old 02-23-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jwanes View Post
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=709218

Check post 32 in the link. Carbon build up was cleaned by a solution injected into the intake on an N63 engine for a few hundred dollars. I would definitely get a second opinion. Also Terraclean from an earlier post appears to be another option. Please report back as everyone of us will face this situation sooner or later.
Terraclean seems to do the trick. TOWN & COUNTRY BMW - 8111 KENNEDY RD., MARKHAM, Ontario, L3R 5M2 seems to offer this service. Also Budd's BMW.

check out post#10
https://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/...an-report.html

Also about Terraclean, very nice tutorial:

If this service is still available I will try it out in the next couple of days before replacing any injectors, spark plugs, etc and let you know on the results
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  #37  
Old 02-23-2014, 04:08 PM
jorden1965 jorden1965 is offline
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I'm a fan of lubro moly jectron injector cleaner and their intake cleaner as well. Those items used periodically along with spirited 100+Mph drives keeps mine running great to date. Been using these products (absolutely NO affiliation ) since 2001. Used in my w126 Mercedes as well as in my e38 BMW...(really miss that car) which I ran up 167k miles no issues other than some vanos rattle at start up






Quote:
Originally Posted by TL2E90 View Post
Terraclean seems to do the trick. TOWN & COUNTRY BMW - 8111 KENNEDY RD., MARKHAM, Ontario, L3R 5M2 seems to offer this service. Also Budd's BMW.

check out post#10
https://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/...an-report.html

Also about Terraclean, very nice tutorial:

If this service is still available I will try it out in the next couple of days before replacing any injectors, spark plugs, etc and let you know on the results
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  #38  
Old 02-23-2014, 07:53 PM
jwanes jwanes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL2E90 View Post
Terraclean seems to do the trick. TOWN & COUNTRY BMW - 8111 KENNEDY RD., MARKHAM, Ontario, L3R 5M2 seems to offer this service. Also Budd's BMW.

check out post#10
https://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/...an-report.html

Also about Terraclean, very nice tutorial:

If this service is still available I will try it out in the next couple of days before replacing any injectors, spark plugs, etc and let you know on the results
It's amazing how some dealers won't hesitate to give you a ridiculous estimate and turn you completely off the brand when alternatives do exist. Do they think that people are just going to accept it? Glad you found other dealers that are more reasonable. Let us know how the treatment works out for you.
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  #39  
Old 02-23-2014, 10:01 PM
Ram750 Ram750 is offline
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Originally Posted by TL2E90 View Post
Terraclean seems to do the trick. TOWN & COUNTRY BMW - 8111 KENNEDY RD., MARKHAM, Ontario, L3R 5M2 seems to offer this service. Also Budd's BMW.
I vaguely remember that my SA might have mentioned a $250 for carbon clean-up. That was long time ago. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if they are using the Terraclean machine for that price. I'm gonna inquire with the shop foreman.
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  #40  
Old 02-25-2014, 07:58 PM
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So my car is getting the injectors, spark plugs and battery replaced. The error codes list printed out by the BMW technician showed consistently misfire in cylinders 1,2 and 3.
The carbon build up is still there but is not so bothersome as the shop foreman initially thought.
I had a chat today with one of the technicians and he was recommending to use every month on bottle of BMW fuel system cleaner. it can be bought at any BMW dealership for around $16.
Once a year or every 20K km , whichever occurs first a TerraClean treatment will not hurt.
Apparently following these simple rules will keep our engines spic and span.
Another important thing: give it a good run every week
Terreaclean treatment can be done in any Indy shop that has the equipment.
I plan on going next week for a TerraClean treatment and I will let you know how it goes.
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  #41  
Old 02-25-2014, 08:06 PM
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My SA is replacing my injectors, plugs, and crankcase hoses for under $200 outside of warranty. BMW really stepped up. He is cleaning the carbon for $159 and also recommended that yearly.

He recommended much shorter oil change intervals of 5K and Techron fuel injector cleaner every 2k.


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  #42  
Old 02-25-2014, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjjklj View Post
My SA is replacing my injectors, plugs, and crankcase hoses for under $200 outside of warranty. BMW really stepped up. He is cleaning the carbon for $159 and also recommended that yearly.

He recommended much shorter oil change intervals of 5K and Techron fuel injector cleaner every 2k.


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Bro that is epic!!!

Happy for you!

Ironically I purchase and use the Techron.
Also... I use Royal Purple every 4k miles.
My car has been cranking, idling and running very smooth!

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  #43  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:39 PM
AdamG13 AdamG13 is offline
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Just dumped some techron into mine at 3k to keep the beast running clean. Wasn't sure if I should use the injector cleaner or the fuel system cleaner so i went with the fuel system cleaner since it sounded more comprehensive.
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  #44  
Old 02-26-2014, 06:20 AM
jwanes jwanes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL2E90 View Post
So my car is getting the injectors, spark plugs and battery replaced. The error codes list printed out by the BMW technician showed consistently misfire in cylinders 1,2 and 3.
The carbon build up is still there but is not so bothersome as the shop foreman initially thought.
I had a chat today with one of the technicians and he was recommending to use every month on bottle of BMW fuel system cleaner. it can be bought at any BMW dealership for around $16.
Once a year or every 20K km , whichever occurs first a TerraClean treatment will not hurt.
Apparently following these simple rules will keep our engines spic and span.
Another important thing: give it a good run every week
Terreaclean treatment can be done in any Indy shop that has the equipment.
I plan on going next week for a TerraClean treatment and I will let you know how it goes.
How much are they charging you for the injectors and spark plugs? Where are you getting the work done? I know you had been quoted $5800 for the injectors, did you get a better price? I will need spark plugs soon.
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  #45  
Old 02-26-2014, 02:40 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
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The carbon buildup is a common issue with n63 motors. The issue lies in how they are designed. Also, injector malfunctions contribute to the issue.

If your engine is shaky I would look over a few things before dropping $14k+ for BMW to fix it.

Injectors
Fuel Pressure
Fuel Pumps
Coils
Plugs
Low Pressure fuel sensor
Check out fuel trim w scan tool, make sure you're not too rich or lean. That'd get ya in right direction.

I would not keep driving it just in case you have a faulty injector. There are enough of us out there with shot motors due to injector issues. The injection system on the car is SERIOUS!



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  #46  
Old 02-26-2014, 02:44 PM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
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You can but injectors for around $175/each from Carl at Defouw BMW in Lafayette. It takes me 35min each bank to replace the injectors. With removing and installing intake boxes and engine cover, maybe a 90min job. You have to code the DME with the injectors' calibrating #s. Car will still run wo coding them. I would encourage you have a non dealer shop replace them if they need replacing. Then have BMW code them if you cannot find an Indy shop to code them.


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  #47  
Old 02-26-2014, 02:59 PM
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TL2E90 TL2E90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir.chris View Post
The carbon buildup is a common issue with n63 motors. The issue lies in how they are designed. Also, injector malfunctions contribute to the issue.

If your engine is shaky I would look over a few things before dropping $14k+ for BMW to fix it.

Injectors
Fuel Pressure
Fuel Pumps
Coils
Plugs
Low Pressure fuel sensor
Check out fuel trim w scan tool, make sure you're not too rich or lean. That'd get ya in right direction.

I would not keep driving it just in case you have a faulty injector. There are enough of us out there with shot motors due to injector issues. The injection system on the car is SERIOUS!



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Thank you for the suggestions!
If this is a design issue I am wondering why BMW bear no responsibility in cleaning up their mess? I keep hearing left and right about injector problems, carbon build problems ad so on. BMW NA does not seem to take responsibility and offeset at least some of the costs associated with all these issues!
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  #48  
Old 02-27-2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jwanes View Post
How much are they charging you for the injectors and spark plugs? Where are you getting the work done? I know you had been quoted $5800 for the injectors, did you get a better price? I will need spark plugs soon.
PM'ed you
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  #49  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:19 AM
sir.chris sir.chris is offline
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The only reason I can think of as to why BMW NA will not take responsibility for these issues is $.

It would take some governing body to crack down on them to take any responsibility.

I honestly feel terrible for those who this happens to down the road...

The E65/66s will surely outlive the F01/02s. Sad.


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  #50  
Old 02-28-2014, 06:23 AM
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Picked up my car last night. Car ran very smooth for about 30 minutes and then the hell broke loose....a very high pitched noise developed instantly and the dreaded CEL and Drivetrain Malfunction message came on. She started to misfire and shake while the power was dramatically reduced. DSC malfunction came on as well. This noise is a new develoment. Never had that before. Car is back to a different dealership.
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