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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #51  
Old 03-18-2014, 05:22 AM
dudley07726 dudley07726 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmernut1 View Post
The surface near the front of the headlight is flat. The surface near the rear has imperfections and raised areas making the adhesive difficult to stick. I considered the rear first then moved it to the front. Either will keep it from reaching the engine compartment. The front catches it closer to the source. You may come to a different conclusion which is fine.

You are correct that the area near the side is the part that has no seal at all. See my initial post. The seal I installed goes all the way across the light so it reaches this area as well.
I saw that afterwards. I will await your test results. I can see why you placed the weather stripping towards the top front of the lights.
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  #52  
Old 03-21-2014, 06:40 PM
bimmernut1 bimmernut1 is offline
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I feel I can confidently say the new seal performs as intended.

1) It has removed the front end spray from getting on the engine.
2) It looks factory, not like some kluge
3) It doesn't interfere with the factory seal; it completes it
4) It's remaining in place, no loose seal popping up
5) No effect on engine compartment temperature

Today the engine looks like it did when I took the photos. I think there's even less dust getting in. We're fortunate that the seal I showed earlier and available at hardware stores and on the internet is the perfect thickness and firmness. Anything thicker makes it difficult to close the lid and you get a lid open warning. The 10' length is perfect to cover the entire front.

There's no need for the extra two sided tape, just the adhesive seal. Total cost is less than $10. Superglue any spots not totally secure. Just make sure your surfaces are clean, dry, and preferably warm when you apply the seal. Follow the contours and keep the tape straight for a nice factory installed look and enjoy a clean engine. I ran the weatherstripping across the entire headlight then tucked it down the side an inch or two in the center. That shows in one of my photos but may not be immediately noticeable. Lastly test fit each section before you expose the adhesive on the back to make sure all the lengths are correct and you have it located exactly where you want it before sticking it in place.

I was waiting to get the results of a shop visit to confirm the seal had no impact on the air conditioning system. I noticed that my AC was not as cold as last year but the service tech determined the refrigerant leaked out at the condenser; new condenser on order; totally unrelated to the seal. I just wanted to be sure.
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Last edited by bimmernut1; 03-22-2014 at 12:06 PM.
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  #53  
Old 03-22-2014, 04:17 AM
dudley07726 dudley07726 is offline
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I just thought of this and what bothers me with adding the weather stripping to the car while it's under warranty is that if something goes wrong (as you are experiencing with the A/C) and you bring it in for service, are they going to blame it on the weather stripping and not pay for the service? Even if the weather stripping had no effect on what is causing the problem. Today, I can see them doing that. Don't get me wrong, I like what you did and plan to do it once the warranty period is over.
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  #54  
Old 03-22-2014, 09:18 AM
bimmernut1 bimmernut1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudley07726 View Post
I just thought of this and what bothers me with adding the weather stripping to the car while it's under warranty is that if something goes wrong (as you are experiencing with the A/C) and you bring it in for service, are they going to blame it on the weather stripping and not pay for the service? Even if the weather stripping had no effect on what is causing the problem. Today, I can see them doing that. Don't get me wrong, I like what you did and plan to do it once the warranty period is over.
I understand. Everyone has to do what makes them feel comfortable or in this case not do what makes them feel uncomfortable.

I don't see BMW denying coverage when they already established the intent to seal out the elements. This addition is consistent with that intent, it just makes a defective design function properly. I was certain this did not affect the A/C but I've been trained to gather all available information before proceeding with a design. In this case the A/C problem was a defective weld on the condenser. It would be difficult to argue changing an engine compartment seal, or for that matter the channel on my radio, has any affect on the condenser; especially when the part is located ahead of the modification. As you know, the condenser is in front of the radiator and all air necessary for it to function goes through the fins via the engine fan.

Besides, I've opened the engine lid and showed the modification to BMW and sent them photos. I would not be surprised to see future X3's be shipped with a revised seal system, but I don't expect a recall to fix this problem. They had no issues with my revision and are proceeding with the warranty repair of the condenser. This doesn't mean a disreputable company won't use any possible excuse for denying coverage and if that is your fear you are right to leave your car untouched. I don't have that concern with BMW. They've proven to be reasonable in 27 years of dealing with them. This is my sixth BMW. In fact they once changed the engine top end on a 7 series I owned because an earlier repair was misrepresented (put a Nikosil block in rather than an Alusil as represented). I paid the labor and they supplied the top end. At the time, this was on an 8 year old BMW with 162k miles. Seemed fair given the age and mileage.

Maybe you're familiar with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which protects consumer warranty rights; if not it's an interesting read. Modifications are discussed about half way down.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...ty-intact.html
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Last edited by bimmernut1; 03-22-2014 at 12:09 PM.
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  #55  
Old 03-22-2014, 10:04 AM
newc6 newc6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmernut1 View Post
I feel I can't confidently say the new seal performs as intended.

1) It has removed the front end spray from getting on the engine.
2) It looks factory, not like some kluge
3) It doesn't interfere with the factory seal; it completes it
4) It's remaining in place, no loose seal popping up
5) No effect on engine compartment temperature

Today the engine looks like it did when I took the photos. I think there's even less dust getting in. We're fortunate that the seal I showed earlier and available at hardware stores and on the internet is the perfect thickness and firmness. Anything thicker makes it difficult to close the lid and you get a lid open warning. The 10' length is perfect to cover the entire front.

There's no need for the extra two sided tape, just the adhesive seal. Total cost is less than $10. Superglue any spots not totally secure. Just make sure your surfaces are clean, dry, and preferably warm when you apply the seal. Follow the contours and keep the tape straight for a nice factory installed look and enjoy a clean engine. I ran the weatherstripping across the entire headlight then tucked it down the side an inch or two in the center. That shows in one of my photos but may not be immediately noticeable. Lastly test fit each section before you expose the adhesive on the back to make sure all the lengths are correct and you have it located exactly where you want it before sticking it in place.

I was waiting to get the results of a shop visit to confirm the seal had no impact on the air conditioning system. I noticed that my AC was not as cold as last year but the service tech determined the refrigerant leaked out at the condenser; new condenser on order; totally unrelated to the seal. I just wanted to be sure.
Did you mean to say "can't" in the first sentence? With everything that follows, I would think you meant "can".
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  #56  
Old 03-22-2014, 12:06 PM
bimmernut1 bimmernut1 is offline
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Originally Posted by newc6 View Post
Did you mean to say "can't" in the first sentence? With everything that follows, I would think you meant "can".
aargh! I meant can. Not sure I can edit but I'll try. thanks.
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  #57  
Old 04-06-2014, 05:58 AM
dudley07726 dudley07726 is offline
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Originally Posted by bimmernut1 View Post
I'll post photos of the before and after engine cleaning later but for now I'll jump straight to the solution I'm trying.

First, the seal I showed earlier ended up being too old from lying around the garage. The tape backing did not stick at all. Also the thickness was about two times what I needed. The engine lid required considerable force to close, which was not acceptable.

I ended up going with a seal that is 5/16" thick and added a strip of strong double sided tape underneath it across the center section only to get a littled additional thickness. I've attached photos of the materials I bought at Ace Westlake hardware and of the installation. Be careful as there is a similar product right next to this one but is only half this width. The fit of the seals is perfect and if someone is unfamiliar with the X3 stock look they would never know it was added. The only other thing I changed was to put the seal more to the front of the headlight rather than the back to avoid several interferences and uneven spots. This location catches the spray sooner as well. Total cost of the upgrade was about $15. I'll watch the installation for a bit to see if my engine stays any cleaner and the operating temperature remains unchanged. It's hard to see how it wouldn't but I'm in the wait and see period now.

Also, remember to leave the gap in the center section where the unlocking latch has to fit.
Is it MD Building products #1025 that you used?

thanks
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  #58  
Old 04-06-2014, 06:30 PM
Masterx5 Masterx5 is offline
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Originally Posted by dudley07726 View Post
Is it MD Building products #1025 that you used?

thanks
I think it is"M-D Building Products 1033 All-Climate Auto and Marine Weatherstrip -inchAll-inch Strip, 10 Feet, Black" at Amazon. This is what I ordered.
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  #59  
Old 04-06-2014, 06:31 PM
bimmernut1 bimmernut1 is offline
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Originally Posted by dudley07726 View Post
Is it MD Building products #1025 that you used?

thanks
Yes. A photo of the product is in post #25 of this thread.
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  #60  
Old 04-06-2014, 07:39 PM
Masterx5 Masterx5 is offline
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Yes. A photo of the product is in post #25 of this thread.
bimmernut1, I bought the one that you had in post #35.....is that the one? That is MD 01033
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  #61  
Old 04-06-2014, 08:07 PM
bimmernut1 bimmernut1 is offline
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bimmernut1, I bought the one that you had in post #35.....is that the one? That is MD 01033
I'm pretty sure it is. The dimensions are identical.
5/16" x 19/32. I don't see the model on the package I photo'd but the dimensions in the upper right match exactly.
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  #62  
Old 04-06-2014, 08:42 PM
bimmernut1 bimmernut1 is offline
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I've had a chance over the last few weeks to do lots of freeway driving in heavy spray conditions. This additional seal has virtually eliminated the issue. Primarily just dust and a few specs is all I see now.

This entire episode along with reading other owners' issues with BMW's recent designs got me thinking. It's amazing how many different issues are met with the same answer from BMW, "it's normal".

I liked BMW's old 'normal' better. I mentioned in my initial post that my M5 has seals even on the side and the X3 has none. One other little detail I recently noticed; the M5's hood is bent down on the side, not just flat like the X3. This means any liquids that blow from the side hit the vertical part of the hood and are directed down into the channel to drain away. This is in addition to the seal. See the attached photo. Engineering is all about the details and it seems the engineers back in 2003 were obsessed with the details.

The current engineers seem to be more interested in not being sued. I notice even though they forgot to seal the engine compartment effectively, they did remember to place a little sticker in the front reminding me not to hit my head against the hood. I'd have to be 8' tall to hit my head. The guy on the warning label is 10' tall. Priorities and attention to detail have just changed.

Rant over, I'm done.
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  #63  
Old 04-07-2014, 06:12 AM
jeff_K jeff_K is offline
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bimmernut1 used MD #1033 that has serrated seals (x5 along the whole length) which I believe contributes to the good seal. His experiment has proven that seal works. MD #1025 is sort of B shaped but may be ok. If someone has used this, would appreciate your sharing.
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  #64  
Old 04-07-2014, 06:25 AM
dudley07726 dudley07726 is offline
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Originally Posted by jeff_K View Post
bimmernut1 used MD #1033 that has serrated seals (x5 along the whole length) which I believe contributes to the good seal. His experiment has proven that seal works. MD #1025 is sort of B shaped but may be ok. If someone has used this, would appreciate your sharing.
Good thing I asked. I only saw MD 1025
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  #65  
Old 04-07-2014, 08:02 AM
bimmernut1 bimmernut1 is offline
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Originally Posted by jeff_K View Post
bimmernut1 used MD #1033 that has serrated seals (x5 along the whole length) which I believe contributes to the good seal. His experiment has proven that seal works. MD #1025 is sort of B shaped but may be ok. If someone has used this, would appreciate your sharing.
I agree that the serrated design contributes to the sealing. It's as if everything from the width, to the thickness, to the serrations were designed for this application. It's nice to find an off the shelf product that fits perfectly. Also, the 10' length is about perfect to cover the entire front without a lot of leftover product.

I have not looked at the #1025 but I can say that the #1033 dimensions are perfect for the X3 application. Anything much thinner would allow some blow by; much thicker would impact hood closure and generate a "hood open" warning.
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  #66  
Old 04-07-2014, 08:55 AM
dudley07726 dudley07726 is offline
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Ordered #1033 just now on Ebay. $10.99 incl shipping.
Will follow your instructions. I see that you are only utilizing the adhesive from the weather stripping backing and say there is no need for extra 2 sided tape. So, you feel that the adhesive on it's backing is strong enough with the heat, etc? Can you tell me where you used the superglue?
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  #67  
Old 04-07-2014, 10:38 AM
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gfeiner gfeiner is offline
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I ordered the same from tape Amazon. The adhesive is very strong. Prior to applying the tape, I cleaned all surfaces with Windex then followed that up with rubbing alcohol. I felt the tape alone is not thick enough to get a good seal so I applied the tape to the top of the lights like in the pictures and then I put tape on the underside of the hood so the two pieces meet when the hood is closed.
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  #68  
Old 04-07-2014, 07:08 PM
bimmernut1 bimmernut1 is offline
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Originally Posted by dudley07726 View Post
Ordered #1033 just now on Ebay. $10.99 incl shipping.
Will follow your instructions. I see that you are only utilizing the adhesive from the weather stripping backing and say there is no need for extra 2 sided tape. So, you feel that the adhesive on it's backing is strong enough with the heat, etc? Can you tell me where you used the superglue?
The tip of mine came up slightly. That's the only spot I had to use any glue. Everything is still in place.

Gfeiner I'll be interested in how your double seal works out. I'm on the bottom only but I don't have any blow by; one side is doing the job.
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  #69  
Old 04-09-2014, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by bimmernut1 View Post

Gfeiner I'll be interested in how your double seal works out. I'm on the bottom only but I don't have any blow by; one side is doing the job.

It is working well. No problems closing the hood but, I'm in the habit of letting the hood drop closed about 5 or 6 inches in the air. I suppose if you like to gently press the hood closed, the two pieces of tape would cause some resistance resulting in the need for additional force to close the hood. FYI the top and bottom pieces are not perfectly aligned. The top piece under the hood makes contact with the bottom piece at about the halfway point (so the ridges if the two pieces interlock).
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  #70  
Old 04-09-2014, 02:09 PM
bimmernut1 bimmernut1 is offline
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It is working well. No problems closing the hood but, I'm in the habit of letting the hood drop closed about 5 or 6 inches in the air. I suppose if you like to gently press the hood closed, the two pieces of tape would cause some resistance resulting in the need for additional force to close the hood. FYI the top and bottom pieces are not perfectly aligned. The top piece under the hood makes contact with the bottom piece at about the halfway point (so the ridges if the two pieces interlock).
I was a bit concerned about how you would get two pieces to align. I am not getting any spray in the engine with the seal on the bottom only.
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  #71  
Old 04-09-2014, 04:10 PM
jeff_K jeff_K is offline
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It is working well. No problems closing the hood but, I'm in the habit of letting the hood drop closed about 5 or 6 inches in the air. I suppose if you like to gently press the hood closed, the two pieces of tape would cause some resistance resulting in the need for additional force to close the hood. FYI the top and bottom pieces are not perfectly aligned. The top piece under the hood makes contact with the bottom piece at about the halfway point (so the ridges if the two pieces interlock).
Can't quite follow what you mean with the tape that is applied to the top of the lights and under the hood that you mentioned earlier in your post. Do you mean you applied weatherstrip on the underside of the hood as well such that the ridges are able to interlock? Can you illustrate with pics?
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  #72  
Old 04-10-2014, 10:58 AM
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Can't quite follow what you mean with the tape that is applied to the top of the lights and under the hood that you mentioned earlier in your post. Do you mean you applied weatherstrip on the underside of the hood as well such that the ridges are able to interlock? Can you illustrate with pics?


Yep. One piece under the hood, just behind the front edge so when the hood is closed the piece attached to the hood will lay down on top of the piece that is on the top of the headlight assembly. I will take pics later tonight.
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  #73  
Old 04-10-2014, 11:03 AM
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I was a bit concerned about how you would get two pieces to align. I am not getting any spray in the engine with the seal on the bottom only.

Here is how I got the two pieces aligned:

I first put the weather stripping on the headlight assembly. Then with the hood closed, I used blue painter's tape to mark the area of the hood that lies directly over the weather seal on the headlight. Then I just guessed by sight how far back into the the hood the weather stripping needed to be from the front edge of the hood.
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  #74  
Old 04-10-2014, 12:18 PM
dudley07726 dudley07726 is offline
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Prior to adding the weather stripping (or even after), do you have a bit of movement of the hood when you press down on it? My hood is aligned perfectly but the travel when I press down on it seems excessive. Definitely more than on my MB E350 cab. I am having the dealer look at it in 2 weeks. I have the weather stripping arriving in the mail today but will not put it on until after my visit to the dealer. I do not want them giving me any hassles.
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  #75  
Old 04-10-2014, 04:44 PM
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Here are the pics
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